How is it even questionable that MJ is GOAT?

[QUOTE=Straight_Ballin]lebron flopped[/QUOTE]

his cawk all over your moms face

[QUOTE=dubeta]his cawk all over your moms face[/QUOTE]

lebron traveled

[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]just like I said. It didn't take long either.

[I]"When all that comes up, suddenly people trying to defend other players shift around and start talking about team accomplishments or popularity contests instead of what the individual actually accomplished. People defending Jordan always slither around the first half of his career when his team accomplished zilch. He wasn't any less of a player, he just had lousy teams.

All that just changes the metric and what it really comes down to is... the purest form of B.S."[/I][/QUOTE]

Poor haters pretending that if Wilt had some rings more, he would only be in the GOAT "discussion". :oldlol:

[QUOTE]From my encounters in real life with people that saw wilt, Kareem, and Jordan play, ALL of them said that Jordan is the GOAT.[/QUOTE]

From what I've seen, among people who have seen all the GOAT candidates play, Jordan isn't anywhere near as overwhelmingly above anyone else as the choice for #1. Wilt is the one who gets the biggest bump compared to here, since a lot of the ones who've seen him play believe he's the GOAT, which is far from what we see in boards like this (and lots have mistakenly come to believe that what is the norm here is the norm among fans in general, as if there are many grown-ups posting here).

[QUOTE=dubeta]Weak era, expansion teams

Same excuses Jordan fans make for Russell, today's fans can make for MJ[/QUOTE]

still stronger than leflop ever face :banana:

[QUOTE=dubeta]Tbh after the stunning revelation that MJ was 1-9, i'm seriously questioning his GOAT status[/QUOTE]

lbj plays in a weak east era and his father help him a lot aka "david stern"

[QUOTE=Soundwave]That said if there's a big game and my life depended on it, gimme a Jordan or Bird 10/10 over a Shaq or Wilt or even Kareem. I want someone with ice in their veins.[/QUOTE]

I notice you left Bill Russell out. 10-0 in game 7s, with an average of 18.6/29.3 and let's say his usual 4.3 assists and estimated 7 blocks because I didn't find those numbers on a quick search.

[QUOTE=Asukal][SIZE="7"]2[/SIZE] :rolleyes:

meanwhile his rival has 11.... :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

Yeah, and MJ has 6, but zero without Pippen and Phil. Pippen was a really, really good second best, and a fantastic compliment to Jordan. And we know what Jackson can do with talent. Also, let's not forget what Grant and Rodman brought to the table. Jordan won three titles with a guy who is in Russell and Wilt's level of rebounding. That's big. He was also an outstanding defender. Grant was too. The Bulls could throw three great defenders at you during their title runs.

I have Jordan as GOAT, but you could come up with different GOATs depending on:

Winning: Russell
Individual: Wilt
Career: Kareem

And what do you know, those are the three guys in the conversation with MJ. I think Magic also has a case. It hurts his resume a bit that he had to retire early. And Bird had a case, but his career was shortened by injuries and then overshadowed by Jordan's success in the 90s.

Both Magic and Bird were in the conversation at one point. They might still be if it weren't for HIV and back injuries.

[QUOTE=Marchesk]Yeah, and MJ has 6, but zero without Pippen and Phil. Pippen was a really, really good second best, and a fantastic compliment to Jordan. And we know what Jackson can do with talent. Also, let's not forget what Grant and Rodman brought to the table. Jordan won three titles with a guy who is in Russell and Wilt's level of rebounding. That's big. He was also an outstanding defender. Grant was too. The Bulls could throw three great defenders at you during their title runs.[/QUOTE]

Ahaha the pippen argument again. :oldlol:

Yeah MJ needed team mates just like everyone else, is that your only argument? :oldlol:

You morons never cease to amaze me. :applause:

[QUOTE=Psileas]Poor haters pretending that if Wilt had some rings more, he would only be in the GOAT "discussion". :oldlol:



From what I've seen, among people who have seen all the GOAT candidates play, Jordan isn't anywhere near as overwhelmingly above anyone else as the choice for #1. Wilt is the one who gets the biggest bump compared to here, since a lot of the ones who've seen him play believe he's the GOAT, which is far from what we see in boards like this (and lots have mistakenly come to believe that what is the norm here is the norm among fans in general, as if there are many grown-ups posting here).[/QUOTE]

Yet you Wilt **********s always fail to give credit to his biggest rival and the real GOAT candidate of the 60's, Bill Russell. :rolleyes:

Go on keep on fapping to his regular season stats. :oldlol:

If there's anyone deserving of GOAT status other than MJ, its Bill Russell. Not that choking stat padder of the 60's. :banana:

[QUOTE=Asukal]Ahaha the pippen argument again. :oldlol:

Yeah MJ needed team mates just like everyone else, is that your only argument? :oldlol:

You morons never cease to amaze me. :applause:[/QUOTE]
I don't fully agree with his statement, but it does have merit. This is my fascination with this thread though: why is it anytime anyone makes a case against Mj, they automatically have to be morons? Like it's a cardinal sin?

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]I don't fully agree with his statement, but it does have merit. This is my fascination with this thread though: why is it anytime anyone makes a case against Mj, they automatically have to be morons? Like it's a cardinal sin?[/QUOTE]

It's generally because they have moronic reasons (everything from Pippen was the Bulls MVP to Jordan had his father murdered to he played in a weak era etc). It's actually great when people present well thought-out reasons as to why their player is their choice for GOAT. Rarely happens though.

[QUOTE=Asukal]Ahaha the pippen argument again. :oldlol:

Yeah MJ needed team mates just like everyone else, is that your only argument? :oldlol:

You morons never cease to amaze me. :applause:[/QUOTE]

You're criticizing Wilt for loosing to Russell's teams, but then you admit that Jordan needed teammates to win? Was Jordan able to lead the Bulls past the Celtics or Pistons (the first 3 times)? No. Yet Wilt is faulted for not being able to do so with the Warriors?

[QUOTE=Straight_Ballin]lebron traveled[/QUOTE]

lebron's biggest travel is from Cleveland to South Beach, and back.

I always thought it was nowhere questionable aswell, until i thoroughly inspected what for example Bill Russell has done.... by the same logic & ranking criteria people go after, he should be the GOAT and actually that should then not be questionable at all... for gods sake, the guy has 11 rings, 11 FMVPs (hypothetically very true as he was the best player/performer there) & 5 mvps.... 11 of his 13 seasons ended up with a championship, you want "the best winner"? There you have him....

I see so many double standards for MJ...

Individual overall talent/skill is compared to him, (Wilt) and immediately rings/fmvps are mentioned to try & end the discussion asap... all of the sudden stats overall individual play etc. dont matter...

Accolades are compared to him, (Russell) and immediately individual talent/skill is mentioned to try & end the discussion asap... all of the sudden rings/fmvps/mvps dont matter...

I have MJ at #1, dont get me wrong, but all i am saying is i wouldnt be mad if someone placed Russell at #1 or Wilt at #1, because i would very well understand why....