Nah... Jordan is GOAT so he would still dominate today's game. You'd think he wouldn't adjust his offensive game to deal with that kind of defense?
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Nah... Jordan is GOAT so he would still dominate today's game. You'd think he wouldn't adjust his offensive game to deal with that kind of defense?
[QUOTE=navy][B]Bran isnt limited offensively.[/B] Average mid range, average free throws, good threes, goat tier driving, good post, goat tier finishing. Limited in what? Inefficient two pointers?
Im not sure anyone here has seriously suggested Jordan would struggle scoring efficiently.[/QUOTE]
Yes he is when compared to the GOAT. :rolleyes:
.
[SIZE="3"][B]Defenders paint-camping while their man is behind the 3-point line [/B][/SIZE]
(this happened all the time - these were taken from a single 10 minute highlight vid):
[B]1) Pippen in far-corner, guarded by paint-campers:
[/B]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/b64923de29630157895f9c3f9dc2e1bd.gif[/IMG]
[B]2) Armstrong in far-corner being guarded by paint-campers[/b] (this one's actually from a different vid):
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/cc9f5bd27abe1cedf21d5f3133957e62.gif[/IMG]
[B]3) Pippen in near-corner, guarded by paint camper:
[/B]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/pippen-is-at-near-corner-3poin-545a2a6bc32f2.gif[/IMG]
[B]4) Craig Hodges in near-corner AND Sellers near-sideline, both guarded by paint campers:
[/B]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/near-corner-3pt-shooter-guarde-545a2b06491c5.gif[/IMG]
[B]5) Pippen at top of key AND Paxson far sideline being guarded by paint-campers:
[/B]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Paxson-on-far-sideline-being-b-545a2f9c3dd98.gif[/IMG]
[B]6) Paxson on far sideline is being guarded by paint-camper:
[/B]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/paxson-far-sideline-being-guar-545a3071c7d91.gif[/IMG]
[B]7) Pippen (top of key) and Armstrong (far sideline) being guarded by paint-campers:
[/B]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/ff254945c516053cd729b4e7438b4688.gif[/IMG]
[B]8) Paxson is near the top of key, guarded by habitual paint-camper, Price:
[/B]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Paxson-guarded-by-paintcamper-545a381e32380.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=DonDadda59]
You don't find it odd that since the rule changes perimeter scoring has exploded collectively to all time records? When Jordan was winning scoring title in the 90s, he was usually the only perimeter guy in the top 5 scorers list (including when guys like Kobe and Iverson were in the league). In fact, check out who was doing the bulk of the scoring league wide when he left to play baseball.
Then flash forward to post '06... when was the last time a non perimeter player won the scoring title? When was the last time the top 5-10 scorers in the league weren't perimeter players.
But I'm supposed to believe it's harder now for those guys to get buckets?
Why?[/QUOTE]
And no one answered because no one could.
[QUOTE=mehyaM24]just read what former players and coaches have to say about yesteryears defensive schemes:
[B]“Offenses are a little more complex[/B] because the defenses have forced that,” Ainge says. “In the ’80s, defense was important but you didn’t do as much double-teaming, you didn’t do as much trapping. You played guys straight up."
[/QUOTE]
SHIT! can you imagine what Jordan would have done on the complex offenses of today that Ainge talks about? I shudder only thinking about it!
[QUOTE=oarabbus]Jordan would be a 15ppg scorer today, if he was LUCKY. Best case scenario today is a rich man's Gerald Green.
[COLOR="White"]3balls blood pressure rising lol[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
And a defensive impact like Boozer :lol
If Thibbs' Celtics defenses are better than the late 80's Pistons or early 90's Knicks, why did Wade average 33.2 ppg on 56% FG and 66% TS against Thibbs in 2010 Playoffs?
How does Durant averaged 30 ppg on 54% shooting and 65% TS against the Spurs?
Jordan never shot 66% TS against ANY playoff team, let alone the Pistons and Knicks - if he had, that would mean the Pistons and Knicks had BAD DEFENSES.
[QUOTE=3ball][IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/d6c47d055cfff266f26bde61297986cf.gif[/IMG]
Under today's defensive 3 seconds rule, a paint defender must be within "armslength" of an opponent to stay in the lane.. [url]http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html[/url]
[B]In today's game, Eaton would draw a technical after 3 seconds because Cartwright is out of "[I]armslength[/I]" reach, but in previous eras, Eaton is legal because Cartwright only needs to be "[I]adjacent to the paint[/I]":
[/B]
Here's the original rule from 1982: ([url]http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html[/url])
[INDENT][B]1981-82[/B]
"[I]Defender on post player is allowed in defensive three-second area (A post player is any player adjacent to paint)"[/I].[/INDENT]
So just by substituting the rule's own parenthetical reference, the rule translates EXACTLY to: "Defender on player adjacent to the paint is allowed in defensive 3 second area."
There is a quote from then-commissioner Larry O'Brien saying the old 3-seconds rule was meant to open up the lane, but in reality, the league didn't even know what spacing was at the time like we do today... The way people thought about the game back then was 180-degrees different from the way we think about the game today, so O'Brien's standard in 1982 of what a clear lane was does not compare to our current standard, which is why the old 3-seconds rule was replaced in 2001, in an attempt to "open up the game", as the NBA has stated.
The old rule had been incredibly simple in saying that anytime your man is "adjacent to the paint", you can stay in the lane.. The paint is a huge, 16-foot area, so a player "adjacent to the paint" is almost always out of "armslength", especially considering "adjacent to the paint" meant right next to the paint, a few feet outside the paint, or all the way out to the 3-point line... The GIF's below showing shooters at the 3-point line being guarded by paint-campers is the best example of how the old rule and its "adjacent to the paint" language was designed to allow players to camp in the paint:
[SIZE="3"][B]GIF's of Shooters At 3-Point Line Being Guarded By Defenders Camping in Paint:
[/B][/SIZE]
The old 3 seconds rule allowed players to camp in the paint so much, that players could camp in the paint while their man was behind the 3-point line - on every possession, there were paint-campers guarding players who were behind the 3-point line, or at least far outside the paint.
I can post literally thousands of clips like the ones below... The ones listed below are from a single, run-of-the-mill Jordan highlight video: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7Huo88x-Fk[/url]
[B]1) Armstrong in far-corner being guarded by paint-campers[/b] (this one's actually from a different vid):
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/cc9f5bd27abe1cedf21d5f3133957e62.gif[/IMG]
[B]2) Pippen in near-corner, guarded by paint camper:
[/B]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/pippen-is-at-near-corner-3poin-545a2a6bc32f2.gif[/IMG]
[B]3) Craig Hodges in near-corner AND Sellers near-sideline, both guarded by paint campers:
[/B]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/near-corner-3pt-shooter-guarde-545a2b06491c5.gif[/IMG]
[B]4) Pippen at top of key AND Paxson far sideline being guarded by paint-campers:
[/B]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Paxson-on-far-sideline-being-b-545a2f9c3dd98.gif[/IMG]
[B]5) Paxson on far sideline is being guarded by paint-camper:
[/B]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/paxson-far-sideline-being-guar-545a3071c7d91.gif[/IMG]
[B]6) Pippen (top of key) and Armstrong (far sideline) being guarded by paint-campers:
[/B]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/ff254945c516053cd729b4e7438b4688.gif[/IMG]
[B]7) Paxson is near the top of key, guarded by habitual paint-camper, Price:
[/B]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Paxson-guarded-by-paintcamper-545a381e32380.gif[/IMG]
[B]8) Pippen in far-corner, guarded by paint-campers:
[/B]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/b64923de29630157895f9c3f9dc2e1bd.gif[/IMG]
If Thibbs' Celtics defenses are better than the late 80's Pistons or early 90's Knicks, why did Wade average 33.2 ppg on 56% FG and 66% TS against Thibbs in 2010 Playoffs?
How does Durant averaged 30 ppg on 54% shooting and 65% TS against the Spurs?
Jordan never shot 66% TS against ANY playoff team, let alone the Pistons and Knicks - if he had, that would mean the Pistons and Knicks had BAD DEFENSES.[/QUOTE]
Jordan is GOAT, but......
didn't read :yaohappy:
[QUOTE=3ball]If Thibbs' Celtics defenses are better than the late 80's Pistons or early 90's Knicks, why did Wade average 33.2 ppg on 56% FG and 66% TS against Thibbs in 2010 Playoffs?
How does Durant averaged 30 ppg on 54% shooting and 65% TS against the Spurs?
Jordan never shot 66% TS against ANY playoff team, let alone the Pistons and Knicks - if he had, that would mean the Pistons and Knicks had BAD DEFENSES.[/QUOTE]
Implying it is impossible for Wade or Durant to outplay Jordan for a series?
[QUOTE=navy]Implying it is impossible for Wade or Durant to outplay Jordan for a series?[/QUOTE]
Um, yeah.
Win or lose, MJ was never outplayed in a series, with the exception possibly when he first came back from retirement in '95.
Durant got outplayed by Lebron. You don't think MJ would absolutely merk him in a playoff series?
[QUOTE=sportjames23]Um, yeah.
Win or lose, MJ was never outplayed in a series, with the exception possibly when he first came back from retirement in '95.
Durant got outplayed by Lebron. You don't think MJ would absolutely merk him in a playoff series?[/QUOTE]
What are you talking about? No one mentioned head to head.
.
[B][SIZE="4"]No-Spacing and Paint-Camping[/SIZE][/B]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/573113292e852dcb8f5fe242c53e3982.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/832a26d5ea87f83465b92fe12837530b.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/c2bdc97f50bdc6f9fb0d44ff4f53f8f6.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/728b10a2dca8fca89dca89f115243b29.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/54cd4db17a9330ca58b8e33a0b6f9b2f.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/9452b82cec96338b7f838b67c9198694.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/cc9f5bd27abe1cedf21d5f3133957e62.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/71cf54bff7eeb11e7ad0da2af5d3536f.gif[/IMG].. [size="3"][B]Notice Mureasan - camping all day[/B][/size]
.
[QUOTE=3ball]if a player shoots 66% TS against a team, that team does not have a tough defense.
wade and durant aren't just shooting better by a little bit.
jordan's percentages against the Pistons and Knicks are nowhere near 66% TS.
it can only be a function of today's weaker defenses that must now contend with spacing and defensive 3 seconds, causing them to help from further distances and leaving the paint clear for higher paint percentages.[/QUOTE]
Or Wade and Durant are good players.
Which series about Durant are you talking about btw? What was the defensive rating for those Spurs?
[QUOTE=navy]What are you talking about? No one mentioned head to head.[/QUOTE]
You mentioned the possibility of either one of them outplaying MJ for a series.
[QUOTE=sportjames23]You mentioned the possibility of either one of them outplaying MJ for a series.[/QUOTE]
You just arent paying attention.
They arent in the same series.
[QUOTE=navy]You just arent paying attention.
They arent in the same series.[/QUOTE]
sportjames got you there i think navy - if they can't beat MJ heads-up, then they are highly unlikely to do better than he could against another team.
and to assume they would, is to make the unlikely, against-the-odds assumptive leap.