Michael Jordan in Today's League: Better or Worse?

[QUOTE=juju151111]I meant in the playoffs. He shot 38% in 91-93. No it didn't he shot 37% the first year he took alot in 90. All he has to do is take more shots then KD and keep his Ts% high. You get more fts in this era.

How did it slow down Wade in the very next season he averaged 30 ppg in 09. How did it slow down Kd in 10 when he had 30 ppg?[/QUOTE]

[B]30 points is a lot different than 40 points.[/B] Both of those guys are probably top-25 scorers all time. Wade did it on a team that had 22 year old Mario Chalmers, and 20 year old Mike Beasley as their second and 3rd best scorers. And he had a USG% around prime-MJ

and Jermaine O'Neal for 22 games:roll:

You don't just take 8 more shots per game than the next highest person in the league. That's what MJ would have to do.

Depends.
I would guess better. his ability to GET to the rim in unparalleled in nba history, and his ingenuity at the rim is also the best in nba history (though a few players shoot a higher percentage at the rim tbh)

He would get more foul calls, that much is obvious. Spacing feels better today, so Im sure he would have developed a decent 3 point shot.

While it is true that his 3 point shot was very inconsistent throughout his career, he showed enough flashes that I think his 3 point shooting would have improved.

Would play less minutes I guess, so his overall averages might go down. I think with modern training, he would have actually improved his already GOAT level mid range game (I recall that outside of 15 feet, he shot something near 51% at the end of his career, cough cough Harvey Polluck is a bullcrapper)

So yeah, I would think that, considering that peak for peak, and overall, no one matches him (though some admittedly come close, such as possibly Lebron when his career is over, Russell, Kareem, and Ive seen good arguments for and against Wilt)

[QUOTE=ralph_i_el][B]30 points is a lot different than 40 points.[/B] Both of those guys are probably top-25 scorers all time. Wade did it on a team that had 22 year old Mario Chalmers, and 20 year old Mike Beasley as their second and 3rd best scorers. And he had a USG% around prime-MJ

and Jermaine O'Neal for 22 games:roll:

You don't just take 8 more shots per game than the next highest person in the league. That's what MJ would have to do.[/QUOTE]
Why can't he if his team needs it? Mj stamina was high anyways. Well i never said he would averge 40 ppg. I think 33-37 on better TS because of how Fts are called today. You acting like what Mj was doing was the norm dummy. Only two players throughout the 90s averaged 30 ppg. The year when Mj averge 37 ppg the next highest was 7 ppg behind. Averging 30ppg is not a normal thing bro. Its rare. Mj did it alot this is what made him the best scorer ever

There is nothing that would give him an edge or disadvantage he didn't already have.

[QUOTE=Rocketswin2013]There is nothing that would give him an edge or disadvantage he didn't already have.[/QUOTE]
Actually the rule changes would give him a edge.

He would have easier buckets. No one to stand in his way when he drives. Too much spacing, it would be too easy.

[QUOTE=juju151111]Why can't he if his team needs it? Mj stamina was high anyways. Well i never said he would averge 40 ppg. I think 33-37 on better TS because of how Fts are called today. You acting like what Mj was doing was the norm dummy. Only two players throughout the 90s averaged 30 ppg. The year when Mj averge 37 ppg the next highest was 7 ppg behind. Averging 30ppg is not a normal thing bro. Its rare. Mj did it alot this is what made him the best scorer ever[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1985&year_max=1990&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&birth_state=&college_id=&draft_year=&is_active=&debut_yr_nba_start=&debut_yr_nba_end=&debut_yr_aba_start=&debut_yr_aba_end=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&award=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws[/url]

^shot per game leaders '84-'90

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2010&year_max=2015&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&birth_state=&college_id=&draft_year=&is_active=&debut_yr_nba_start=&debut_yr_nba_end=&debut_yr_aba_start=&debut_yr_aba_end=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&award=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws[/url]

^shot per game leaders '10-'15


Today's game is played at a slower pace. Stars play less minutes across the board, and take less shots.

[QUOTE=juju151111]Actually the rule changes would give him a edge.[/QUOTE]
Which ones?

[QUOTE=Rocketswin2013]Which ones?[/QUOTE]

1) No hand check
2) No physical contact allowed which means he would get more calls

And not the rules but the spacing in today's game means more space to work with. MJ already established himself as the best ever at getting to the basket and finishing in an era where it was much more congested, hand checking was allowed and hard fouls were allowed. He would flourish better in this era. The rules were tailor made for the athletic, wing player.

Kobe Bryant FTR '97 - '04: .390

Kobe Bryant FTR '06 - '13: .378

[QUOTE=ralph_i_el][url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1985&year_max=1990&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&birth_state=&college_id=&draft_year=&is_active=&debut_yr_nba_start=&debut_yr_nba_end=&debut_yr_aba_start=&debut_yr_aba_end=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&award=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws[/url]

^shot per game leaders '84-'90

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2010&year_max=2015&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&birth_state=&college_id=&draft_year=&is_active=&debut_yr_nba_start=&debut_yr_nba_end=&debut_yr_aba_start=&debut_yr_aba_end=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&award=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws[/url]

^shot per game leaders '10-'15


Today's game is played at a slower pace. Stars play less minutes across the board, and take less shots.[/QUOTE]

While I partially agree with you, I do have a few points I would like to make.

1. Personally, many people say pace doesent truly effect star scoring, and while the correlation might not be huge, it is foolish however to say that there ISNT a relationship. the correlation increases as the situation gets more extreme. good point about shots, which refutes this point completely.
2. One thing I would like to mention is that this depends on what team he plays in. realistically, Jordan imo was the best player of all time in transition, and Dipper/Phila's research supports this theory, as he shot something like 90% over a 132 game span in transition. for comparison, Lebron generally shoots somewhere in the 70s, even in 09, which imo is his peak year.
3. to all the people talking about how he would dominate because of spacing, defenses are obviously much more complicated today. not gonna go in depth on that lol. But tbh, He already attacked teh rim as good as anyone, what makes people think he would suddenly do better? what, does his percentage go from around 77% to 79% at the rim?
3.
I believe that while his raw stats might not be as impressive, because of minutes and pace, his impact would probably stay the same. After-all, he is far better than people like peak Kobe on offense, and obviously, was a monster defensively as well.
4.
Even now, people fail to realize the nuances of his game. I wont go into depth now, but in terms of his basketball IQ, I find it criminally underrated.

[QUOTE=Rocketswin2013]Kobe Bryant FTR '97 - '04: .390

Kobe Bryant FTR '06 - '13: .378[/QUOTE]

Not a very good example. at all. no offense, but they were completely different players tbh.

[QUOTE=ralph_i_el][url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1985&year_max=1990&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&birth_state=&college_id=&draft_year=&is_active=&debut_yr_nba_start=&debut_yr_nba_end=&debut_yr_aba_start=&debut_yr_aba_end=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&award=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws[/url]

^shot per game leaders '84-'90

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2010&year_max=2015&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&birth_state=&college_id=&draft_year=&is_active=&debut_yr_nba_start=&debut_yr_nba_end=&debut_yr_aba_start=&debut_yr_aba_end=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&award=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws[/url]

^shot per game leaders '10-'15


Today's game is played at a slower pace. Stars play less minutes across the board, and take less shots.[/QUOTE]
Go look who played faster the 1988 bulls or the 2015 rockets. You clearly not understanding what Mj did has a bull wasn't the norm. Nobody but him and Karl malone (1season) averged 30 ppg in the 90s. The year he averged 37 nobody else was close to him. The bulls were a slow pace team similar to most teams today. He was still putting up those numbers.

[QUOTE=DavisIsMyUniBro]While I partially agree with you, I do have a few points I would like to make.

1. Personally, many people say pace doesent truly effect star scoring, and while the correlation might not be huge, it is foolish however to say that there ISNT a relationship. the correlation increases as the situation gets more extreme. good point about shots, which refutes this point completely.
2. One thing I would like to mention is that this depends on what team he plays in. realistically, Jordan imo was the best player of all time in transition, and Dipper/Phila's research supports this theory, as he shot something like 90% over a 132 game span in transition. for comparison, Lebron generally shoots somewhere in the 70s, even in 09, which imo is his peak year.
3. to all the people talking about how he would dominate because of spacing, defenses are obviously much more complicated today. not gonna go in depth on that lol. But tbh, He already attacked teh rim as good as anyone, what makes people think he would suddenly do better? what, does his percentage go from around 77% to 79% at the rim?
3.
I believe that while his raw stats might not be as impressive, because of minutes and pace, his impact would probably stay the same. After-all, he is far better than people like peak Kobe on offense, and obviously, was a monster defensively as well.
4.
Even now, people fail to realize the nuances of his game. I wont go into depth now, but in terms of his basketball IQ, I find it criminally underrated.[/QUOTE]
Agreed and another thing is Mj played in slow pace systems

[B]Probably better, yup... But I wouldn't say that considerably so this discussion doesn't "matter" all that much to me...[/B]