Checkmate Atheists!

[QUOTE=Im Still Ballin]Checkmate Atheists!

[IMG]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--yUk6sRYfKs/UCRQtj3gakI/AAAAAAAAIww/l0HmuRDTRBA/s1600/atheism%2Bmakes%2Bno%2Bsense.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
i guess it's 'checkmate' in the sense that you defeated a straw man.

last i checked, there is not a lot of glory involved in defeating a cartoon opponent.

[QUOTE][/QUOTE][QUOTE][/QUOTE][QUOTE=K Xerxes]Of course you will say that. Muslims such as yourself cannot comprehend an objective account of the Qur'an that leads to the conclusion that it is most likely nonsense.

I've read the arguments. The scientific miracle (the egg shaped earth, the big bang, the clot fetus, mountain movements and whatever else) which I was inundated with when I was a young and dumb Zakir Naik stan. The literary miracle that nothing can be produced in the poetry and prose of the Qur'an. I admit it is a gorgeous piece of arabic, but that does not make it true.

Sorry to say there's no convincing evidence.[/QUOTE]


So while you were typing I did a few errands and read this Ayat. (I have never read the Quran in its entirety and this was the first)

[QUOTE]Indeed, We sent down the Torah, in which was guidance and light. The prophets who submitted [to Allah ] judged by it for the Jews, as did the rabbis and scholars by that with which they were entrusted of the Scripture of Allah , and they were witnesses thereto. So do not fear the people but fear Me, and do not exchange My verses for a small price. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the disbelievers

O you who have believed, whoever of you should revert from his religion - Allah will bring forth [in place of them] a people He will love and who will love Him [who are] humble toward the believers, powerful against the disbelievers; they strive in the cause of Allah and do not fear the blame of a critic. That is the favor of Allah ; He bestows it upon whom He wills. And Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing.

Then is it the judgement of [the time of] ignorance they desire? But who is better than Allah in judgement for a people who are certain [in faith].[/QUOTE]

Moral relativism was once what people called justice a long time ago (in days of ignorance)..

You are invited to do a rereading of the book to understand the nature of God.

Do not use the word "objective" for future reference. A person with skin in the game, ego, and arrogance is going to see things very differently than the humble, sincere and faithful. Their sense of self, which Hume accurately also stated was not much else than a "collection of senses etc" did not over blow to the proportion where they think themselves independent from the Creator etc.. we can do back and forth but that's ultimately the main flaw in your thinking xerxes



And women are allowed to say no to their husbands propositions FYI.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]Hold on. Religious people that are stupid? Or are all religious people stupid?[/QUOTE]
The latter.

[QUOTE=fiddy]The latter.[/QUOTE]
Charles Darwin and Isaac Newton were stupid. Leo Tolstoy and Thomas Hobbes were stupid.

[QUOTE=Nick Young]Charles Darwin and Isaac Newton were stupid. Leo Tolstoy and Thomas Hobbes were stupid.[/QUOTE]
To some extend.

[QUOTE=fiddy]The latter.[/QUOTE]
So if someone disagrees with you and wants to kill you over that, why would anyone have the moral authority to come up against them?

[QUOTE=Nick Young]Charles Darwin and Isaac Newton were stupid. Leo Tolstoy and Thomas Hobbes were stupid.[/QUOTE]
Yes, Max Planck too! (as well as many other high-profile physicists)

[QUOTE]As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]"Every serious and reflective person realizes, I think, that the religious element in his nature must be recognized and cultivated if all the powers of the human soul are to act together in perfect balance and harmony. And, indeed, it was not by any accident that the greatest thinkers of all ages were also deeply religious souls, even though they made no public show of their religious feeling."[/QUOTE]


Bunch of morons!

You know, fiddy, did once rebuke Jeff for making money off such a crappy forum.....

[QUOTE=JEFFERSON MONEY]So while you were typing I did a few errands and read this Ayat. (I have never read the Quran in its entirety and this was the first)
[/QUOTE]

If you haven't read the whole thing and critically analysed it yourself, then you're not a Muslim. You're a sheep.

But I'm not surprised. It is an excrutiatingly dull book, only rivalled by the Bible in its sleep induction quality.

[QUOTE=JEFFERSON MONEY]Moral relativism was once what people called justice a long time ago (in days of ignorance)..

You are invited to do a rereading of the book to understand the nature of God.

Do not use the word "objective" for future reference. A person with skin in the game, ego, and arrogance is going to see things very differently than the humble, sincere and faithful. Their sense of self, which Hume accurately also stated was not much else than a "collection of senses etc" did not over blow to the proportion where they think themselves independent from the Creator etc.. we can do back and forth but that's ultimately the main flaw in your thinking xerxes[/QUOTE]

I really have no clue what your argument is. It seems like you're just stringing words together at this point.

[QUOTE=fiddy]To some extend.[/QUOTE]
To some extend. Yes. You are a fitting judge of stupidity indeed.

[QUOTE=K Xerxes]If you haven't read the whole thing and critically analysed it yourself, then you're not a Muslim. You're a sheep.

But I'm not surprised. It is an excrutiatingly dull book, only rivalled by the Bible in its sleep induction quality.[/QUOTE]
so you're saying a muslim is either false or a zombie?

i'm so confused.

[QUOTE=K Xerxes]If you haven't read the whole thing and critically analysed it yourself, then you're not a Muslim. You're a sheep.


But I'm not surprised. It is an excrutiatingly dull book, only rivalled by the Bible in its sleep induction quality.

No need to criticize. The problem is not the books it's your attention span.



I really have no clue what your argument is. It seems like you're just stringing words together at this point.[/QUOTE]


- Surah Alaq 5:6 (Man transgresses because he thinks himself independent)
That ayat alone describes your behavior and worldview and life in a nutshell. Look at your posts beginning with the earliest of the thread. "Why can't we admit the universe came in and of itself?" Are you seriously implying that each atom in and of its own has a perfect intelligence where it can foresee and arrange itself in accordance to where it belongs to compose the heavens and earth. That's ridiculous.

Religious people believe that there is One God who is creating nourishing maintaining every atom of the universe.

it's no surprise that just like your inner psychologically perceives your ego as not needing God projects the same to the Universes origins.


- Objective is defined as being fair minded. It is impossible for you to be fair minded to people of a religious orientation because a) you choose your judgment over Divine Command and thus will by the very flawed nature of your psychology wield excess dislike for practices in disharmony with your worldview b) you can't even see what people with faith see because forgetting God while contemplating over the universe will render many many things as insignificant and disorderly. When people receive light and guidance they see meaning beauty, order and harmony where there is chaos. Their very consciousness and eyes are directed, by Allah's command, just as how all the creatures of the world have a method to their migrations.
They are not in rebellion against God.


While you play the role of critic and speak to an already irreligious audience the merits of cultural relativism, you sacrifice moments of your precious time and others. When you and I die, God forbid, were going to regret not having done more good for humanity.


The solution to the a) is self mortification, purification of the heartand ego dissolution. That is gained through spiritual practices. When one attains legitimate detachment from the world and loses all notion of "I" AND understands history, politics, religion, law, then they can maybe be closer to "Objective". That and repeatedly understanding ones limitations and sharpening the mind to be sounder and sounder of judgment. The Quran also states Moses and Joseph were given wisdom.and judgment because they themselves consistently did good deeds.

. The solution to the second issue is remembering God and knowing that through knowing God is the very key to unlocking the mysteries of the creation of the universe.

[SIZE="7"][URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJXN5VPkyH8"]RIP Atheism[/URL][/SIZE]

[QUOTE=JEFFERSON MONEY]You know, fiddy, did once rebuke Jeff for making money off such a crappy forum.....[/QUOTE]
Poor attempt to have some things changed around here. "A new design has been in the works, expect changes in the next 2 weeks". Also he allegedly is paying for the site out of his pocket, rather than making money of ISH constantly.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]So if someone disagrees with you and wants to kill you over that, why would anyone have the moral authority to come up against them?[/QUOTE]
Religion and morality? Lol

[QUOTE=gigantes]so you're saying a muslim is either false or a zombie?

i'm so confused.[/QUOTE]

Sheep come in two forms. They either know little about their religion and follow it simply because they were indoctrinated to believe in it. Or they have researched their religion, but under some confirmation bias-tinted glasses, and accrue a lot of knowledge all under the assumption that it's true anyway.

The only way to truly be a believer, in my opinion, is to step back and assume a position of extreme doubt. Critically analyse a belief system and if you still conclude it to be true, then fair enough. It is impossible to be completely objective, but the more distance you place between the religion and yourself initially, the stronger and more convincing your belief will be. It just so happens that I analysed Islam (and christianity) as a teen and found it to be nonsense.