Imagine what the proposed(but unlikely) tax plan would do to the NBA.

The guy I had to kick out of two different homes was in his 40s...a non drug addict...and stealing his own grandmothers valuables to get petty cash so he didnt look like he didnt have money to go out.

Forgive me...my compassion rate is zero. Pieces of shit do exist and its perfectly fine to acknowledge them. Some people are killers...rapists....some people hate hispanics...or steal....some people are lazy parasites..many reasons for all those issues exist.

It doesnt mean its wrong to call the finished product what it is.

If you are an able bodied adult male who refuses to work and has your grandma hiding her change purse when she goes to bed so you dont steal 2 dollars for swisher sweets...**** you.

I dont feel any need to soften that stance.

Well god damn...After what I said in OTC this conversation was quite beneficial to me.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]The guy I had to kick out of two different homes was in his 40s...a non drug addict...and stealing his own grandmothers valuables to get petty cash so he didnt look like he didnt have money to go out.

Forgive me...my compassion rate is zero. Pieces of shit do exist and its perfectly fine to acknowledge them. Some people are killers...rapists....some people hate hispanics...or steal....some people are lazy parasites..many reasons for all those issues exist.

It doesnt mean its wrong to call the finished product what it is.

If you are an able bodied adult male who refuses to work and has your grandma hiding her change purse when she goes to bed so you dont steal 2 dollars for swisher sweets...**** you.

I dont feel any need to soften that stance.[/QUOTE]

We are talking past each other on this point.

I've already agreed that those people do exist and should be held accountable. You don't have to keep telling me about these people because I'm well aware and have spent quite a bit of time on this in my life.

However, where we actually diverge is the compassion piece. When I see these people...I feel compassion because I know they were once just an innocent little 5 year old kid that is a victim of genes and environment (like we all are)...

And when I reflect on how lucky I am to not have those genes and environment...phrases like "**** them" and "pieces of shit" just don't make much sense

Again, this is where some form of a UBI could really alter behavior and make sweeping changes to our society. Obviously there is no quick fix or one solution, but I do think that is a step in the right direction.

Maybe some of these people you speak of wouldn't be stealing from their grandmother if they were getting 1,000 a month and were more free to explore their interests. Just a thought...

So if I kill 6 people for no reason will it not make sense to call me an asshole murderer because something happened in 1984 to put me on that path?

When a call someone a piece of shit it doesnt mean they never had a chance to be anything else. It means they threatened to kill my grandma for petty cash and I had to talk my family out of disappearing them.

Being an innocent 2 month old baby in the 70s does not mean im wrong to call you what you are today.

DMAVS you seem to think some monolithic government can be developed to cure people of their sociological ailments.

Kblaze has it right. In the United States there are too many opportunities to stay ****ed up as an adult without it being your own doing.

I don’t need to have a ton of back and forth with you to be able to arrive at the conclusion that we have very differing beliefs on life.

Courage is the key to life itself.

The US has far bigger social fabric problems than income inequality.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]So if I kill 6 people for no reason will it not make sense to call me an asshole murderer because something happened in 1984 to put me on that path?

When a call someone a piece of shit it doesnt mean they never had a chance to be anything else. It means they threatened to kill my grandma for petty cash and I had to talk my family out of disappearing them.

Being an innocent 2 month old baby in the 70s does not mean im wrong to call you what you are today.[/QUOTE]

I believe this is getting far off topic and I think a murderer should be locked up or sentenced do death just like you do...and you can use whatever words you like to describe someone.

I personally think it is healthier to view people more through the lens of being a victim of genes and environment like I've said.

The question is...what do we do with these people? With dangers to society...we know we have to lock them up and hope to rehabilitate some percentage that can be.

With someone that is stealing from their family or is just a bad guy (but isn't a true criminal)...those situations, in my opinion, are not as cut and dry and your label of "piece of shit"...

Again, perhaps he wouldn't behave that way with just a couple changes to our society. We already know we are going to produce all these people you keep referencing as is...why not try some different things?

[QUOTE=Ben Simmons 25][B]DMAVS you seem to think some monolithic government can be developed to cure people of their sociological ailments.
[/B]
Kblaze has it right. In the United States there are too many opportunities to stay ****ed up as an adult without it being your own doing.

I don’t need to have a ton of back and forth with you to be able to arrive at the conclusion that we have very differing beliefs on life.

[B]Courage is the key to life itself.[/B]

The US has far bigger social fabric problems than income inequality.[/QUOTE]

I think no such thing at all.

I simply think we can produce better people and a better society than we currently do.

Lets say the bold is true, what do you do with the percentage of people in our society that lack courage? Or how about the percentage that has an IQ below 80?

Again, this is where a philosophical education on things like the illusion of libertarian free will and moral responsibility really matter.

You seem to want to take credit for the fact that you have courage and another person doesn't. And that view, in my opinion, is quite ignorant.

And I never said that income inequality is our biggest problem or that it would fix everything by closing the gap. I simply stated that I think a redistribution of wealth should be a piece of the puzzle when addressing societal concerns.

16% of people in the U.S. have an IQ below 85. That is like 50 million people.

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kVFYzmigx0[/url]

Even if they are good people and work hard...most of these people will need a lot of help in life.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]16% of people in the U.S. have an IQ below 85. That is like 50 million people.

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kVFYzmigx0[/url]

Even if they are good people and work hard...most of these people will need a lot of help in life.[/QUOTE]


The percentage of those with an iq below 85 who are suffering from severe mental retardation is very small, but I do agree that citizens who fall under that demographic need to be taken care of.

In terms of those who have lower than average IQ's due to nurture, I fail to see what more the government can do to fix their home situations. The only thing that can really be done for a child with crappy parents is to reform the education system (which I dont believe requires additional spending) and hope that the child snaps out of it like I did.

Poverty isnt what holds these inividuals back, it is the lack proper morals taught to them at home. Often times these kids simply check out starting in middle school because their parents dont give a damn.

[QUOTE=Tainted Sword]It boggles my mind how many ppl think more government is the solution to all of our problems. Anyone who has been to a dmv or even experienced public education will tell you how terrible the government is at providing services to it's citizens. The ppl running these programs arent held accountable for efficiency and simply think that throwing more money at a problem will fix everything.

Socialists like aoc are cowards. They propose this 70% tax on the rich because they dont have the guts to tax everyone 50% like the nordic countries. I'll be more comfortable paying higher taxes when these parasites become more transparent with how they spend. I'll be more comfortable when these politicians are held to the same standard as a company executive.[/QUOTE]

Thats not what nordic countries do tough. Yes, the taxes are higher that almost anywhere on the world, but they do have a progressive income tax. Not everyone is taxed at 50%, is like in the USA and everywhere in the world, the more you earn, the higher tax rate. You can check the rates here [url]https://www.nordisketax.net/main.asp?url=/Q00.asp&c=nor&l=eng[/url]

[QUOTE=bukowski81]Thats not what nordic countries do tough. Yes, the taxes are higher that almost anywhere on the world, but they do have a progressive income tax. Not everyone is taxed at 50%, is like in the USA and everywhere in the world, the more you earn, the higher tax rate. You can check the rates here [url]https://www.nordisketax.net/main.asp?url=/Q00.asp&c=nor&l=eng[/url][/QUOTE]
"Scandinavian income taxes raise a lot of revenue because they are actually rather flat. In other words, they tax most people at these high rates, not just high-income taxpayers. The top marginal tax rate of 60 percent in Denmark applies to all income over 1.2 times the average income in Denmark. From the American perspective, this means that all income over $60,000 (1.2 times the average income of about $50,000 in the United States) would be taxed at 60 percent."

[url]https://taxfoundation.org/how-scandinavian-countries-pay-their-government-spending/[/url]

So if we were to have a similar tax structure to the nordic countries, the middle class would be taxed 60%. If I made 60000, the gov would take 36,000 to spend however they see fit. There are no board meeting or quarterly reports to hold them accountable. They can't get fired for being incompetent.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Id have to write a novel even by my standards to reply to the multiple posts on what I said...

I will just say this....

My empathy is limited for the able bodied. And I maintain I probably had the poorest upbringing of any American on ISH. If you came up poorer than me you were literally homeless. Not evicted and staying with family homeless like me. You better have been sleeping under a bridge if you are gonna tell me shit about poverty. Ive lived in 2 of the places listed as the 25 worst neighborhoods in America by crime rate. Type "shemwood crossing" into google news and see the stories on where im from. And all those shootings and stabbings and murders....are today..when its a LOT better than it was 20+ years ago.

I dont know the people in question in passing. They are my family. My friends. My neighbors at times. I came home when I could afford not to. A literal one eyed murderer cuts my grass. A crackhead mechanic gang member works on my car. My neighbor had a fight with a woman who sent her dog after him and he shot it...and it died in my driveway. I saw it happen. I have the pictures in my phone if someone doubts me. Im not some commentator on the hood from afar. I live in it. Have all but a few years of my life. It doesnt really bother me...im used to it. nobody bothers me. But I have spent a lifetime hearing sob stories from ****ups.

Ive got jobs for ****ups who knew I could get them past the drug test...only for them to not show up. been in fights with family who talk about how I dont understand how hard it is when you have a felony. As if its my fault he pulled a gun on a woman in the 90s or nearly beat someone to death at a cookout.

Most people who cant get ahead....there is a reason...and its not society. Its them being lazy...a ****up....or stupid. Its hard to not be able to feed yourself if you dont have 2 of those strikes against you.

Intelligent lazy ****ups are doing fine. A stupid ****up with some work ethic can do fine. You know how many felons have mobile detailing jobs? People out here with a Tony Montana background still buy a 96 Ford Ranger and put a water tank in the back and wash 12 cars a day off facebook contacts alone. You can be lazy and stupid and make 18-29 bucks an hour at a plant if you dont have a record. I know too many people at BMW doing it.

People do legit get haunted by their past...and they change and still cant get ahead due to their past. Felonies. Dropped out of school 20 years ago and dont remember enough to get a GED easily. Lots of things. None of it is anyones fault but theirs....but how do you protect against it? How can you reward them over the people who kept it clean? Know how I ducked felonies? Not being a criminal. Not a stupid one at least. Know why I can get a good job? I didnt quit school to **** hoodrats when I was 16. Why have I advanced at every job I ever had? Because I work harder than anyone. I find who is best...and I do better. I was the best washing cars at toyota. The best in garden at Kmart. I was the best flipping burgers. Now I dont have to do those things.

In America if you cant take care of yourself as a healthy young person...you are lazy, stupid, or ****ed up your life with bad decisions in your past.

None of that is anyones fault.

I can feel a little for stupid. Im not talking disabled of course just....doesnt think things through? But how do you really account for that? This world gives too many chances to people who want them. Someone this morning woke up at 4 to go sweep floors....before going to a real job at 8. My friend tone works at taco bell, home depot, and a gas station to take care of SEVEN kids. And hes got felonies...AND no license.

Meanwhile we have people like my 46 year old cousin I had to literally remove from his moms home by force after our mutual grandmother passed and he lost the roof over his head. 46 years old been living with family mooching all his life. I told them 20 years ago that all that would happen is hed never learn to stand on his own two like I had to. He just bounces from older family member to older family member mooching. And hes a smart guy. He went to some college. Knows history....the law. Hes just a lazy asshole.

I kick him out....his mom gets me to kick him out of there too....he goes to the streets after some woman kicked him out. Then what?

Gets a damn job while living with friends. I front him the money for steel toed shoes for work(ill help a man get a job and get to work all day...im not helping you sleep on my couch). He keeps a job now because he has no choice. Has his own place for the first time ever. Still no car...but hes not a burden on anyone else. Hes never gonna thank me...but he admitted to his mom I was right.

A LOT of people just have to be kicked in the ass to man up. a lot.

All? No. Some people are legit disabled. Or too old. I think we need to do MORE for the elderly, disabled, and kids in some situations.

A healthy 25 year old in America?

Yea...**** em. And I say it proudly. Being coddled is not doing anyone a favor long term. Thats how you end up homeless when your parents die.

Help the sick. The injured. Give people laid off a bridge to find something else.

You in your prime not doing all you can do to better yourself? You stick with a 8 dollar a year job for 12 years like a moron? Im not one bit sorry to say you can go **** yourself. If after years in retail nobody promoted you its because you arent worth a damn. You only stay at the bottom when theres no reason to reach down for you.

Stop treating so many people with kid gloves they would act like adults. The ones that cant? Ok. Im all for helping. Im not against helping the unfortunate. Im against treating all poor people like they cant do anything about it.

Show me where to sign....id double disabled benefits and programs to help the elderly who live alone right now. If youre 25 and healthy?

I have nothing for you but advice. Take it...and then go be a man.[/QUOTE]. Kblaze out here dropping 81 point posts

I guess the perspective that I'm arguing from is that workers could get a better deal. Also, there's a lot of things we could do to reduce the number of POS folks by improving the material conditions of children.

[QUOTE=eliteballer]Here's what you're missing...the wealthy and politically powerful whether you want to talk about private citizens, companies, industries or whoever through lobbying, lawmaking, political donations, industry cartels and countless other methods...have shaped and structured society and laws over time through their privilege to leverage and skewer it heavily in their favor whether it's through taxes, regulations, monopolies etc. so that their wealth and power accumulation grows exponentially without reason:









[url]https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/10/elite-wealth-management/410842/[/url]

[url]https://money.cnn.com/2018/01/21/news/economy/davos-oxfam-inequality-wealth/index.html[/url]

[url]https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/01/oxfam-world-richest-26-wealth-poorest-190121054249908.html[/url]

[url]https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/21/world-26-richest-people-own-as-much-as-poorest-50-per-cent-oxfam-report[/url]

[url]https://www.oxfam.org/en/pressroom/pressreleases/2018-01-22/richest-1-percent-bagged-82-percent-wealth-created-last-year[/url]

[url]https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/21/oxfam-calls-for-global-tax-hikes-for-the-worlds-richest.html[/url]

So this thing about "the rich and wealthy should keep what they earned [B]*fair and square*[/B]" isn't really what you think it is, because they didn't accumulate it fair and square, much of it is gaming and manipulating the system over time.

America is run by corporations and lobbies, and it's even worse in many other parts of the world.[/QUOTE]

[url]https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2019/04/12/indiana-pacers-25-year-deal-team-indy-agree-295-m-deal-over-25-years/3427430002/[/url]

[QUOTE=eliteballer;13569000]Here's what you're missing...the wealthy and politically powerful whether you want to talk about private citizens, companies, industries or whoever through lobbying, lawmaking, political donations, industry cartels and countless other methods...have shaped and structured society and laws over time through their privilege to leverage and skewer it heavily in their favor whether it's through taxes, regulations, monopolies etc. so that their wealth and power accumulation grows exponentially without reason:









[url]https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/10/elite-wealth-management/410842/[/url]

[url]https://money.cnn.com/2018/01/21/news/economy/davos-oxfam-inequality-wealth/index.html[/url]

[url]https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/01/oxfam-world-richest-26-wealth-poorest-190121054249908.html[/url]

[url]https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/21/world-26-richest-people-own-as-much-as-poorest-50-per-cent-oxfam-report[/url]

[url]https://www.oxfam.org/en/pressroom/pressreleases/2018-01-22/richest-1-percent-bagged-82-percent-wealth-created-last-year[/url]

[url]https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/21/oxfam-calls-for-global-tax-hikes-for-the-worlds-richest.html[/url]

So this thing about "the rich and wealthy should keep what they earned [B]*fair and square*[/B]" isn't really what you think it is, because they didn't accumulate it fair and square, much of it is gaming and manipulating the system over time.

America is run by corporations and lobbies, and it's even worse in many other parts of the world.[/QUOTE]

Go Bernie.