Where would you put LeBron James on the all time list? Honest answers, please.

[QUOTE=PickernRoller]Top 15 consensus. You could make a case for borderline Top 10 but that's about it.

OP, gotta make the votes public, so we see were everyone stands, not hiding behind that keyboard.[/QUOTE]


Results are usually more reliable if a vote is anonymous. The investigation for me was about WHAT this board thinks and not WHO thinks what. You do already know that from all the other threads anyway, don't you? I mean.. you know what screennames publicly tell you about their opinions.

These results are... well, interesting.

71 votes
534 points
avg: 7.52

extremes excluded:

47 votes
306 points
avg: 6.51


And the median is top 10ish.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]2 guys had success after 2010 in the arguable top 10. Lebron and Duncan and with that Kobe's place was always polarizing due to the Shaq rings, so in his case it's not much of a surprise is it? Weighing his 2nd option rings always has been a murky task.[/QUOTE]


Hakeem kept climbing upwards long after he retired. At his peak years in the NBA him and David Robinson were looked at 1A and 1B at the center position. And for most of their careers Patrick Ewing Was viewed at as a legit 1C.

These days it's hard to imagine... but in 1993... Hakeem was 'a good center'. In 1996 probably a great center. But not top 10 all time material. He became the 'legendary Dream'... I don't know when. But not in 1995. Yes, he overtook Robinson and Ewing with those rings then... but noone was talking about top 15 player ever then.

[QUOTE=elementally morale]Results are usually more reliable if a vote is anonymous. The investigation for me was about WHAT this board thinks and not WHO thinks what. You do already know that from all the other threads anyway, don't you? I mean.. you know what screennames publicly tell you about their opinions. [/QUOTE]

When you have to put your skin (username) on the line, be open to criticism or riducule that's when you know, for real, how committed and how confident you're in your position and opinion. With anonymity you throw objectivity out the table and settle safely on hyperbole - not to mention, you'll never know for sure how significant alt brigading was to the voting results (you can only guess). That's not to say there aren't going to be clowns voting public... but those are already factored in and easy to see. What you want to see is where the more level headed posters fall. That's why public polls are and will always be the best.

I disagree on your take. Hence my threads and way of doing things.

[QUOTE=elementally morale]Hakeem kept climbing upwards long after he retired. At his peak years in the NBA him and David Robinson were looked at 1A and 1B at the center position. And for most of their careers Patrick Ewing Was viewed at as a legit 1C.

These days it's hard to imagine... but in 1993... Hakeem was 'a good center'. In 1996 probably a great center. But not top 10 all time material. He became the 'legendary Dream'... I don't know when. But not in 1995. Yes, he overtook Robinson and Ewing with those rings then... but noone was talking about top 15 player ever then.[/QUOTE]
in 93 Hakeem was a [I]good[/I] center?? That's insane, you do realize that like 4 guys entered the top 10 after his career right? The one guy who got jobbed was Moses. Nobody even mentions him anymore after being considered up there back in those days. But Dream? you gotta be kidding me, I've always had him in the top 10 after that peak he had. Whether or not he was in the lower end to be pushed out 1st is another topic.

You wanna talk about climbing while never playing another game and Russell would be your guy. He's now universally regarded above Wilt though that wasn't the case in the 80s or 90s. The need to validate Jordans goat case with rings had the unintended side effect of elevating Bill's case at the same time.

[QUOTE=PickernRoller]What you want to see is where the more level headed posters fall. That's why public polls are and will always be the best.[/QUOTE]


I have no problem with that approach. For some ideas I'd prefer public voting myself. That's good for other reasons. At any rate, if you look at the data gathered here you will see this:

One third of the voters think extreme. (goat and not top 15 are extremes)
Roughly half the board thinks LeBron is somewhere in the 4th-11th range. (an avg of 7.5)
The average of all votes is also 7.5

Based on this board LeBron is top 10 but not top 5. If you exclude all votes for goat he is still 9th... so top 10 but not top 5. If you exclude all 'not top 15' votes he is number 6. Still... top 10, not top 5.

That's what we wanted to know. This is in pretty harsh contrast to/with talking heads in the media.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]in 93 Hakeem was a [I]good[/I] center?? That's insane, you do realize that like 4 guys entered the top 10 after his career right? The one guy who got jobbed was Moses. [/QUOTE]

The way I remember Olajuwon was thought of being very good in 1993 but that's it. He kept rising on these lists long after he retired. His image aged well. Ewings didn't.

You are absolutely right about Moses. But it was over for him by 2000, I think. Ha wasn't much talked about on this board in 2001 either, I'm sure.

OP is one of the best posters on the board and exudes everything the original ISH Handsome Man wanted to be.

That is all.

Top 3 quite easily. People voting top 10ish, top 15, and not top 15 should be castrated to prevent them from spreading their idiocy. Not that they have to chance to spread it anyways, but better safe than sorry.

[QUOTE=aj1987]Top 3 quite easily. People voting top 10ish, top 15, and not top 15 should be castrated to prevent them from spreading their idiocy. Not that they have to chance to spread it anyways, but better safe than sorry.[/QUOTE]


Unfortunately, opinions don't work that way. You may have yours others have theirs. You don't need message boards for facts. You need a database.

Yes, if you exclude most everyone who thinks differently you will end up with your opinion as the one and only 'valid' opinion. It's called a bubble. This exactly is the reason why people just don't understand how politicians keep getting elected or TV shows they don't like aired.

[QUOTE=elementally morale]Unfortunately, opinions don't work that way. You may have yours others have theirs. You don't need message boards for facts. You need a database.

Yes, if you exclude most everyone who thinks differently you will end up with your opinion as the one and only 'valid' opinion. It's called a bubble. This exactly is the reason why people just don't understand how politicians keep getting elected or TV shows they don't like aired.[/QUOTE]
I don't mind if reasonable and rational people have opinions. Just don't care about opinions from mouth breathing morons. Lets say if a person legit believes that LeBron is top 6-8 and has a decent discussion, I wouldn't mind debating that person. However, when people (especially Kobe stans on here) keep spamming the same asinine BS, with zero intelligent thoughts put into their posts, then yeah, they need to be castrated for the betterment of humankind.

I mean, 21 people voted for top 15 and not top 15. I would LOVE to see what their lists are like.

[QUOTE=aj1987]I don't mind if reasonable and rational people have opinions. Just don't care about opinions from mouth breathing morons. Lets say if a person legit believes that LeBron is top 6-8 and has a decent discussion, I wouldn't mind debating that person. However, when people (especially Kobe stans on here) keep spamming the same asinine BS, with zero intelligent thoughts put into their posts, then yeah, they need to be castrated for the betterment of humankind.

I mean, [B]21 people[/B] voted for top 15 and not top 15. I would LOVE to see what their lists are like.[/QUOTE]


And 23 people voted top 3. Something I personally find VERY hard to justify. Half of those people voted number one. Pretty insane, isn't it?

But what can we do? If we can't accept it... then what? Maybe a message board is not for such people who can't accept 'idiots'. Or... you may limit your time spent arguing with them. Or... you may ask: but why?

[QUOTE=E_Stamkos]OP is one of the best posters on the board and exudes everything the original ISH Handsome Man wanted to be.

That is all.[/QUOTE]

:cheers:

Actually, that's a picture of me in my avy from mid 2006. I look even better now... if it is at all possible. :oldlol:

Solidly #7 on my list. Could rise or drop over time but I don't think he'll ever fall out of the top ten.

The 3-1/73-9 comeback is probably the height of his career, it's going to look better as time goes on.

[QUOTE=elementally morale]And 23 people voted top 3. Something I personally find VERY hard to justify.

But what can we do? If we can't accept it... then what? Maybe a message board is not for such people who can't accept 'idiots'. Or... you may limit your time spent arguing with them. Or... you may ask: but why?[/QUOTE]
There's 2 people in the history of the sport with 4 or more MVP's and 3 or more MVP's.

Most All-NBA First teams (will likely end up with most All-NBA selections overall as well).

First player to hit 30k/8k/8k.

Top 5 all time in scoring (will likely end up top 2).

Most points ever in the PO's, top 3 in assists, and top 5 in rebounds.

Incredible career averages at all 3 stages (RS, PO's, and Finals).

Greatest G7 performer of all time.

Greatest elimination game performer of all time.

I could keep going and going. there's pretty much no reason to exclude LeBron from the top 3.

As I said, I wouldn't mind having a debate with a reasonable and rational person like you, but some of the other... lol **** that. It's easier to just call them an idiot and move on. Numerous times, I've actually wasted time typing up a post with actual facts, only for those idiots to retort with "but but lebronze suxxxQ!! :rant :rant ". So yeah..

Should have made it top 5 ish then clear top 10 or put another choice in between like top 5, 6 or 7 ish then top 10 ish.

Really poor choices.