TRADE: Jrue Holiday to the Celtics for Timelord, Brogdan and 2 firsts.

[QUOTE=bladefd;14834921]Does Middleton have a long history of injuries like porzingis? No.

Middleton is asked to be their 3rd scorer (mostly catch and shoot) , while brown is the focal point for the Celtics. On both ends of the floor. That is why brown shoots more and handles the ball for long time. And why he averages more ppg.

And no, I didn't say Middleton would have a better season than brown. I said they will be about equal. Giannis and Lillard will be the focal points for the bucks, tatum & brown for the Celtics. It allows Middleton to be the 3rd cog in the wheel with opponents not focusing on him as much. Opponents will be going at brown & game-planning for him more than Middleton on bucks.

I also did not say Middleton would do less than porz. I said porz's history throughout his entire career says he won't stay healthy for long.

Yes, I do think horford is falling apart physically. They have to minutes manage him because he just isn't as impactful as he once was when he is out there. He has been more prone to making mistakes on the defensive end or getting pushed around. I do not think he can give you solid 35mpg if you were to take him off his minutes restriction. He is good backup in stretches, but like I said he is not the same player he used to be. If porz or horford get injured, you guys are in huge trouble. You don't want either guy playing big minutes due to the high injury risk. Lopez doesn't have high injury risk history even if he is getting old. And bucks have decent depth behind lopez.[/QUOTE]

Middleton has 6 seasons playing under 70 games and last year played 33. That isn't a history of injury? Por z ing I s had had his struggle but last year he played in 65 games. Both guys have cause for concern.

Brown last year averaged 5 more points than Middleton ever had regardless of his role. And this is with Brown being a guy that improves every year. You are going that Middleton comes back after a major injury to be the same player that he was. You are definitely doing a lot of wishful thinking here.

Your opinion on horford continues to ignore my question: what is his major injury? You say he's had this major defensive decline but just last postseason he defended Embiid well enough for the Celtics to win. He hits jumpers and gets a few rebounds. What more is expected from a guy that is a part time starting big that was and will continue to be load managed all season?

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;14834953]Middleton has 6 seasons playing under 70 games and last year played 33. That isn't a history of injury? Por z ing I s had had his struggle but last year he played in 65 games. Both guys have cause for concern.

Brown last year averaged 5 more points than Middleton ever had regardless of his role. And this is with Brown being a guy that improves every year. You are going that Middleton comes back after a major injury to be the same player that he was. You are definitely doing a lot of wishful thinking here.

Your opinion on horford continues to ignore my question: what is his major injury? You say he's had this major defensive decline but just last postseason he defended Embiid well enough for the Celtics to win. He hits jumpers and gets a few rebounds. What more is expected from a guy that is a part time starting big that was and will continue to be load managed all season?[/QUOTE]

under 70 games doesn't mean you're injured anymore. 33 certainly does and should be of concern for sure. Porzingas hadn't played that many games since his 2nd year

why is he nicknamed Timelord btw?

I wonder how holiday would make a cumbersome stiff work. :lebronamazed:

[QUOTE=Axe;14834957]I wonder how holiday would make a cumbersome stiff work. :lebronamazed:[/QUOTE]

guess you'll find out with Horford and Porzingas

I'm excited for Jrue but I don't like that we gave up Timelord

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;14834955]why is he nicknamed Timelord btw?[/QUOTE]

He got the nickname once he was drafted by missing his flight to Boston, then missing his first press interview, then sleeping through training camp. It was so bad that the FO made him move next door to the practice facility and got him an alarm. All while this happened coach Brad Stevens said that there was no issues with Robert Williams being late to practice or flights so people started calling him Timelord because he can manipulate and control the flow of time

[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE;14834949]^ This is called “over dramatizing.”[/QUOTE]

That is just my opinion, sure. We will see how it goes for Celtics soon enough.

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;14834927]Lopez certainly has more and more risk of injury as he gets older. Everyone's body breaks down eventually[/QUOTE]

Yeah but Porz has been injury-prone since his rookie season. Besides that, Brook has legit backups behind him in Portis and his brother Robin Lopez.

Porz's backups are Horford and some dude named Kornet.

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;14834954]under 70 games doesn't mean you're injured anymore. 33 certainly does and should be of concern for sure. Porzingas hadn't played that many games since his 2nd year[/QUOTE]

It does if we are talking about a young player, which Middleton was for a lot of those games. Just not a major injury.

Anyhow the Bucks didn't start load managing him until he got the big injury (I think it was an ACL tear two years ago). And that kind of injury does sometimes derail careers. Tony Allen was still a good player but before he tore his ACL he was a DWade level athlete, could score well, wasn't Wade because he didn't have that kind of handle but he had allstar potential. Jabari Parker and Leon Powe would have had much better careers if they got to be the explosive athletes they were pre-injury. As sports science improves we could and should see better results but it's still very much unknown how close Middleton can get to being the player he was.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;14834953]Middleton has 6 seasons playing under 70 games and last year played 33. That isn't a history of injury? Por z ing I s had had his struggle but last year he played in 65 games. Both guys have cause for concern.

Brown last year averaged 5 more points than Middleton ever had regardless of his role. And this is with Brown being a guy that improves every year. You are going that Middleton comes back after a major injury to be the same player that he was. You are definitely doing a lot of wishful thinking here.

Your opinion on horford continues to ignore my question: what is his major injury? You say he's had this major defensive decline but just last postseason he defended Embiid well enough for the Celtics to win. He hits jumpers and gets a few rebounds. What more is expected from a guy that is a part time starting big that was and will continue to be load managed all season?[/QUOTE]

Porz played over 60 games 3 times out of 7 years (42%). Middleton 8 times out of 11 times (72%). And Porz is younger by 7yrs.

5 more ppg while shooting over 20 shots a game. Middleton has never averaged more than 15.8 shots.

Do you watch the Celtics?? I feel like I have watched Horford more than you have, and I'm not even a Celtics fan. You would have seen Horford's overall athletic ability decline quite a bit over last few years. My point was if Porz goes down, don't expect Horford to suddenly take the starting role and start playing 35mpg. He can't be that guy anymore. At least you admitted he is a part-time big so you agree with me they have depth issues. Bucks don't.

Keep telling yourself you have the better starting 5 and better depth than Bucks. Fact is you don't.

Yeah, the Cs have a couple holes in the front court after trading RW3 and Grant Williams.

[QUOTE=bladefd;14835030]Porz played over 60 games 3 times out of 7 years (42%). Middleton 8 times out of 11 times (72%). And Porz is younger by 7yrs.

5 more ppg while shooting over 20 shots a game. Middleton has never averaged more than 15.8 shots.

Do you watch the Celtics?? I feel like I have watched Horford more than you have, and I'm not even a Celtics fan. You would have seen Horford's overall athletic ability decline quite a bit over last few years. My point was if Porz goes down, don't expect Horford to suddenly take the starting role and start playing 35mpg. He can't be that guy anymore. At least you admitted he is a part-time big so you agree with me they have depth issues. Bucks don't.

Keep telling yourself you have the better starting 5 and better depth than Bucks. Fact is you don't.[/QUOTE]

Again with the stupid questions. You don't reply to points like Horford still defending Embiid well and instead say dumb crap like you watch the Celtics more than me. Being stupid is not an argument. If you could point out what major injury Horford had suffered, as you have been repeatedly asked to, that would be an argument. If _______ his injured then ______ won't be able to win. That's true of every team in the league. The Celtics will have possibly the best starting five in the league both offensively as well as defensively.

And no. Middleton is not as good as Jaylen Brown.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;14835052]Again with the stupid questions. You don't reply to points like Horford still defending Embiid well and instead say dumb crap like you watch the Celtics more than me. Being stupid is not an argument. If you could point out what major injury Horford had suffered, as you have been repeatedly asked to, that would be an argument. If _______ his injured then ______ won't be able to win. That's true of every team in the league. The Celtics will have possibly the best starting five in the league both offensively as well as defensively.

And no. Middleton is not as good as Jaylen Brown.[/QUOTE]

You admitted Horford is a part-time big so you agree with me they have depth issues. We agree there. If Porz gets hurt (which he usually does), Horford is not giving you good 35mpg starting to each game. His minutes have been declining every year. He is not a legit insurance policy for Porzingis. You don't have depth in front-court no matter how you slice it. I don't care if he defended Embiid well for 20 minutes (Williams was playing big minutes too and doing a lot of the defense on Embiid so not like it was Horford taking on Embiid one-on-one most of the game). Can he bang with Embiid, Jokic, Adebayo, Sabonis, Turner, Ayton, Gobert,, etc night in & night out for 35mpg as starter? No, he can't - not for 35+ mpg every game. End of story.

I'd rather have Middleton as 3rd option than Brown as 2nd option if I'm a playoffs team even if I rank Brown over Middleton on top 100 players list. Guy's role will be to stand at 3pt line, wait for giannis/lillard to pass him the rock (both will draw double teams btw so Middleton will get plenty of space), then catch & shoot. He doesn't have to playmake, rebound, create for others, anything. Brown's role will require a lot more, and they need a lot from him due to the lack of depth around him (while drawing double teams).

[QUOTE=bladefd;14835078]You admitted Horford is a part-time big so you agree with me they have depth issues. We agree there. If Porz gets hurt (which he usually does), Horford is not giving you good 35mpg starting to each game. His minutes have been declining every year. He is not a legit insurance policy for Porzingis. You don't have depth in front-court no matter how you slice it. I don't care if he defended Embiid well for 20 minutes (Williams was playing big minutes too and doing a lot of the defense on Embiid so not like it was Horford taking on Embiid one-on-one most of the game). Can he bang with Embiid, Jokic, Adebayo, Sabonis, Turner, Ayton, Gobert,, etc night in & night out for 35mpg as starter? No, he can't - not for 35+ mpg every game. End of story.

I'd rather have Middleton as 3rd option than Brown as 2nd option if I'm a playoffs team even if I rank Brown over Middleton on top 100 players list. Guy's role will be to stand at 3pt line, wait for giannis/lillard to pass him the rock (both will draw double teams btw so Middleton will get plenty of space), then catch & shoot. He doesn't have to playmake, rebound, create for others, anything. Brown's role will require a lot more, and they need a lot from him due to the lack of depth around him (while drawing double teams).[/QUOTE]

you're not going to have everything you want when you're deep in the tax