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[QUOTE=dankok8;15020122]Actually the best defender on those Sonics teams may have been Nate McMillan.[/QUOTE]
Even though the creator admits it’s a flawed stat, I’m pretty sure Nate McMillan has the highest DBPM ever. Or he’s really far up there at least.
[QUOTE=LAL;15020121]Harden wasn't playing the same way for Mchale before D'antoni. He loved playing for him, did miracles for his numbers.
And Jeremy Lin had no chance of getting in the nba but was lucky the knicks were desperate enough to give him a 10day and even luckier it was Mike D'antoni and they had no point guards and injuries. Even Chris Duhon would get a triple double here and there.
Steve Nash would've been Dallas Steve Nash without D'antoni. We know he was a great shooter and incredible passer in transition but very slow, not the greatest handles, bad defender etc.. nowhere near the greatest pg's, Mark Price level if it wasn't for D'antoni. Dude was a 14ppg 11apg type player, couldn't win and only gets praised as if he made shawn marion and stoudamire all stars.. Marbury did that and he was actually better but that's life.[/QUOTE]
Marbury was more talented not better
[QUOTE=dankok8;15020122]Actually the best defender on those Sonics teams may have been Nate McMillan.[/QUOTE]
Best defender but didn’t play many minutes? Maybe he had an Alex Caruso impact. I remember him being a good defender for sure. Never felt he was the best on those teams.
[QUOTE=GOBB;15020140]Best defender but didn’t play many minutes? Maybe he had an Alex Caruso impact. I remember him being a good defender for sure. Never felt he was the best on those teams.[/QUOTE]
Most versatile anyway. Could play and defend 3 positions
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;15020130]Marbury was more talented not better[/QUOTE]
NJ/Phoenix Marbury was actually better than Dallas Nash, There's nothing Nash did Marbury
couldn't, not vice versa honestly. I can only imagine many good to great point guards playing
on that same team in the same system.
[QUOTE=RRR3;15019725]:facepalm[/QUOTE]
from a certain perspective he is
i also believe jordan is goat but that's not unpopular
same for lebron
[QUOTE=LAL;15020145]NJ/Phoenix Marbury was actually better than Dallas Nash, There's nothing Nash did Marbury
couldn't, not vice versa honestly. I can only imagine many good to great point guards playing
on that same team in the same system.[/QUOTE]
He didnt do winning better. Could have stuck with kg and went down as a great. Instead only china and you see it that way
[QUOTE=rmt;15020118]IMO, your memory is faulty. Duncan was the main offensive player for 4 of the Spurs' 5 rings - and had they won in 2013, he would have picked up another FMVP.
2005 RS
Duncan 20.3 pts 11.1 rebs 49.6%FG
Parker 16.4 pts 6.1 assts 48.2%FG
Manu 16 pts 3.9 assts 47.1%FG
2005 Playoffs
Duncan 23.6 pts 12.4 rebs 46.4%FG
Parker 17.2 pts 4.3 asst 45.4%FG
Manu 20.8 pts 4.2 asst 50.7%FG
2007 RS
Duncan 20 pts 10.6 rebs 54.6%FG
Manu 16.5 pts 3.5 asst 46.4%FG
Parker 18.6 pts 5.5 asst 52%FG
2007 Playoffs
Duncan 22.2 pts 11.5 rebs 52.1%FG
Manu 16.7 pts 3.7 asst 40.1%FG
Parker 20.8 pts 5.8 asst 48%FG
2013 NBA Finals
Duncan 18.9 pts 12.1 rebs
Parker 15.7 pts 6.4 asst
Kawhi 14.6 pts 11.1 rebs
Manu 11.6 pts 4.3 asst[/QUOTE]
You're helping to make my point. The gap in scoring isn't big at all. It goes to show you that offensively it wasn't just Timmy and his backup band.
There were plenty of games and plenty of crunch time moments where it was Parker or Manu taking over.
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;15020149]He didnt do winning better. Could have stuck with kg and went down as a great. Instead only china and you see it that way[/QUOTE]
Sure but Nash didn't win either, with Dirk or those amazing Phoenix lineups.
Anyway i'm sure Nash has gotten 2x mvp level better after the age of 32 with his
14/11 and Jobless undrafted Jeremy Lin just jumped off his friends couch to average
25/9 for nine straight games for the ****ing Knicks.
[QUOTE=Baller234;15020150]You're helping to make my point. The gap in scoring isn't big at all. It goes to show you that offensively it wasn't just Timmy and his backup band.
There were plenty of games and plenty of crunch time moments where it was Parker or Manu taking over.[/QUOTE]
It actually makes the point that Duncan typically paced the team in scoring while also anchoring the defense, and Manu/Parker's scoring were ancillary by-products of that. They simply didn't have the same across the board responsibility and overall impact, and as said earlier your criticism can be levied against any GOAT level player in some form except MJ. He's literally the only top 10 player who was always his teams leading scorer for the season and every playoff series. Take a look at Duncan's basketball reference page. Literally, his final season at 40 is the ONLY time he wasn't either on the MVP ballot, an all-star, all NBA or all-defense. Scaling back his scoring so that other teammates can shine( and result in more chips) is an unfair and extremely vacuous criticism.
[QUOTE=LAL;15020151]Sure but Nash didn't win either, with Dirk or those amazing Phoenix lineups.
Anyway i'm sure Nash has gotten 2x mvp level better after the age of 32 with his
14/11 and Jobless undrafted Jeremy Lin just jumped off his friends couch to average
25/9 for nine straight games for the ****ing Knicks.[/QUOTE]
Suns were close. Marbury got his cba rings!!!
[QUOTE=warriorfan;15020088]:roll:
This is mental illness.[/QUOTE]
It's just the facts bro, Curry being robbed of FMVP in 2015 is complete revisionist history. Look at what was being said at the time, and this isn't even factoring in Curry not receiving a single vote for FMVP.
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[QUOTE=L.Kizzle;15019983]Damn, forget he coached the Rockets and I'm here in Houston lol.[/QUOTE]
:lol
[QUOTE=Phoenix;15019995]Even with Grant in 95 I just don't think they beat Houston ( maybe they squeeze past Orlando). You're talking a team that pretty much would have had 6 deep playoff runs by then (assuming they win in 94, the 91-93 titles, and back to back ECFs in 89 and 90). But I'm figuring Grant staying around also means they don't land Rodman in 96, and he was a crucial part of that 96 run ( especially since he could play Shaq straight up for large stretches so Chicago could stay home on Orlando's shooters, and of course he was huge in the finals against Seattle).[/QUOTE]
Agree on all counts. When I mentioned Grant "making a difference", I was thinking more along the lines of helping versus the tall timber. Actually stopping Shaq and/or Hakeem is another story. Don't think they win in 95 either way.
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;15020143]Most versatile anyway. Could play and defend 3 positions[/QUOTE]
Yeah I remember his ability to guard 3 positions. Nate was definately a dog on defense.
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;15020162]Suns were close. Marbury got his cba rings!!![/QUOTE]
Suns were close! No finals but close.
Damn forgot Marbury had a pretty great career in both NBA and China, won a professional
basketball championship too.