Better at basketball, Jokić or Kobe?

[QUOTE=Baller234;15031171]Things I've seen said about Yolk on this forum of so called experts:

- He's the greatest offensive player of all time, better than Jordan.
- He's in the discussion for greatest scorer of all time, easily better than Kobe.
- He's the greatest passer of all time, better than Magic.
- Larry Bird can't shine his shoes and there's no debate.

And this is all in like the last month or so.

And idiots wonder why I don't respond to every single asinine post where they pull some retarded frankenstein number out of their ass to prove their ridiculous point.

Might as well just close the book then. Yolk is the clear of goat of goats. He doesn't need to do anything further to prove himself. If he plays the rest of his days and never sniffs a conference final again, the "data" proves he's still the goat. The data that doesn't take era, circumstances OR intangibles into account. I guess Lebron made that "forever king" commercial a little too early. Even the chosen one is no match for the efficient one.

And while we're at it let's totally ignore the opinion of some of the greatest players and coaches to ever exist, because they're all just retarded stans who don't know how to decipher the data.[/QUOTE]
You just created a bunch of strawmen because you can’t actually refute the facts.

[QUOTE=RRR3;15031175]You just created a bunch of strawmen because you can’t actually refute the facts.[/QUOTE]

Kevin Durant is currently scoring with greater efficiency than he did when he was young and in his prime.

Kevin Durant who's 36 years old, played 17 seasons and suffered multiple significant injuries throughout his career including an achilles rupture.

[QUOTE=j3lademaster;15031032][B]He was a regular season phenom and serial playoff choker until 1984.[/B] And most people who actually watched back then say Moses was better in the early 80’s, just way less marketable than Bird vs Magic.[/QUOTE]

To be fair, he did average 27/13/5/2 on 49 fg% and outplayed MVP Julius Erving in their '81 ECF matchup and made a huge clutch shot in game 7 with a minute left to put the Celtics ahead.

But yea, dude had quite a few stinkers throughout his playoff career that never get discussed. Can't imagine the hate LeBron would get if he had the overall playoff resume of Bird. :lol

On a side note, the '81 ECF just might be the greatest series ever. And it never gets discussed. The series went 7 games and 5 of those games were decided by 2 points or less, including game 7.

[QUOTE=Baller234;15031179]Kevin Durant is currently scoring with greater efficiency than he did when he was young and in his prime.

Kevin Durant who's 36 years old, played 17 seasons and suffered multiple significant injuries throughout his career including an achilles rupture.[/QUOTE]
Not relative to league average he’s not. What’s your point anyways? Even adjusted for era Jokic is a more impressive scorer than your hero.

Wrong quote

[QUOTE=RRR3;15031184]Not relative to league average he’s not. What’s your point anyways? Even adjusted for era Jokic is a more impressive scorer than your hero.[/QUOTE]

You claim to be smart.

The broken down hoopty verison of Durant is scoring more "efficiently" than the new ferrari version. Even though he's coming on 200k miles and running on damaged parts.

You tell me what you derive from that.

[QUOTE=RRR3;15031121]Bawler ran away. Triggered :roll:[/QUOTE]

Midnight on a Wednesday

[I]he ran away[/I] .... :lol

[QUOTE=Baller234;15031179]Kevin Durant is currently scoring with greater efficiency than he did when he was young and in his prime.

Kevin Durant who's 36 years old, played 17 seasons and suffered multiple significant injuries throughout his career including an achilles rupture.[/QUOTE]

Admittedly, middies are easier to get these days which KD is all time elite at. He's also a 40% 3 point shooter that you have to close out on, so he can go under the closeout and take a mid range shot before help can come. Besides, the real defense comes playoff time that's why all of the scores get lower.

[QUOTE=j3lademaster;15031190][B]Admittedly, middies are easier to get these days[/b] which KD is all time elite at. He's also a 40% 3 point shooter that you have to close out on, so he can go under the closeout and take a mid range shot before help can come. Besides, the real defense comes playoff time that's why all of the scores get lower.[/QUOTE]

And how was prime Kobe at getting "middies"?

I'm curious.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15031181]To be fair, he did average [B]27/13/5/2 on 49 fg%[/B] and outplayed MVP Julius Erving in their '81 ECF matchup and made a huge clutch shot in game 7 with a minute left to put the Celtics ahead.

But yea, dude had quite a few stinkers throughout his playoff career that never get discussed. Can't imagine the hate LeBron would get if he had the overall playoff resume of Bird. :lol[/QUOTE]

That should be par for the course for someone that's top 10 caliber. And I take no pleasure pointing out Bird's faults as it feels like I'm shitting on him in a way. To me, his rivalry with Magic saved the league and opened the door to allow Jordan's marketing to build it into an iconic, global brand. But at the same time, as a fan of the sport it makes me sick when people discredit the now. If you're a true fan of basketball you should be able to appreciate its evolution.

[QUOTE=Baller234;15031191]And how was prime Kobe at getting "middies"?

I'm curious.[/QUOTE]
Nowhere near as good as Durant.

Career 10-16 feet: Durant 48.1%, Kobe 43%

Long 2s: Durant 45.7%, Kobe 40.2%



As for your other point yeah league wide efficiency has gone up as teams have optimized their playstyles and some of Silver’s changes have hampered defenses. But you can adjust for that and still see Jokic is an easily superior offensive player to Kobe. Their impact stats aren’t close.

Nash offensive impact stats had to have been higher than Kobes as well I'd assume. He was leading #1 offense every single year. But in the playoffs Kobe outplayed him. I could see a similar thing happening with Jokic.

[QUOTE=tpols;15031197]Nash offensive impact stats had to have been higher than Kobes as well I'd assume. He was leading #1 offense every single year. But in the playoffs Kobe outplayed him. I could see a similar thing happening with Jokic.[/QUOTE]
Kobe once got outplayed by Austin Croshere.

[QUOTE=RRR3;15031194]Nowhere near as good as Durant.

Career 10-16 feet: Durant 48.1%, Kobe 43%

Long 2s: Durant 45.7%, Kobe 40.2%



As for your other point yeah league wide efficiency has gone up as teams have optimized their playstyles and some of Silver’s changes have hampered defenses. But you can adjust for that and still see Jokic is an easily superior offensive player to Kobe. Their impact stats aren’t close.[/QUOTE]

2001-2004:

- Players faced zone coverage
- Handchecking and physicality allowed
- Minimal floor spacing

2025:

- Players face man coverage
- Minimal physicality is allowed
- Omnipresent floor spacing

And you think it's a totally smart idea to put these numbers side by side.

You definitely never played growing up. You were the water boy.

Go get the water bottles.