Charles Barkley: Zimmer was right to be acquitted

[QUOTE=ALBballer]This is by far one of the dumbest things I have ever read.[/QUOTE]

I see alot of people chiming in to say that post is dumb.... but I dont see anyone saying it is [B]untrue[/B]. I would like to see someone come and say it is untrue and then break it down...

I dont personally like the tone in which is was written because I think it is accusatory and makes people defensive... But I dont think it is untrue at all.. I dont believe all white people are responsible for the things done by some of their ancestors, but I do agree with his statement that some people act like "if I've never really lived it then it doesn't exist" mentality of alot of posters, most of whom arent old enough to be my nephews..

I think the post is destructive, but it is not without merit and I would like to see one of the people who hate it come in and actually refute it, instead just saying its dumb..

[QUOTE=Rasheed1]I see alot of people chiming in to say that post is dumb.... but I dont see anyone saying it is [B]untrue[/B]. I would like to see someone come and say it is untrue and then break it down...

I dont personally like the tone in which is was written because I think it is accusatory and makes people defensive... But I dont think it is untrue at all.. I dont believe all white people are responsible for the things done by some of their ancestors, but I do agree with his statement that some people act like "if I've never really lived it then it doesn't exist" mentality of alot of posters, most of whom arent old enough to be my nephews..

I think the post is destructive, but it is not without merit and I would like to say one of the people who hate it come in and actually refute it, instead just saying its dumb..[/QUOTE]

White people were usually in charge of the most powerful nations throughout the course of history, leading the strongest armies and empires. Obviously during those ages war and massacre was widespread and it was basically a constant battle over land and resources.

So them being the ones that were involved in those terrible acts and injustices isn't a surprise, I just don't understand what the issue is. The biggest bully in the playground is going to be an asshole and will cause lot of damage, doesn't matter if he is white, black or yellow. :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=Rasheed1]I see alot of people chiming in to say that post is dumb.... but I dont see anyone saying it is [B]untrue[/B]. I would like to see someone come and say it is untrue and then break it down...

I dont personally like the tone in which is was written because I think it is accusatory and makes people defensive... But I dont think it is untrue at all.. I dont believe all white people are responsible for the things done by some of their ancestors, but I do agree with his statement that some people act like "if I've never really lived it then it doesn't exist" mentality of alot of posters, most of whom arent old enough to be my nephews..

I think the post is destructive, but it is not without merit and I would like to say one of the people who hate it come in and actually refute it, instead just saying its dumb..[/QUOTE]

Well first he starts by compare historical events that have happened and compared it to black crime in the United States. The argument is completely fallacious and would like be someone including random events in Africa, a few thug members and then use that as some sort of argument against Trayvon Martin.

Second he goes on " you have founded this country on blood and native americans" what this has to do with this thread or black crime I'm not sure. Hell Zimmerman is Half Peruvian and probably of some Amerindian descent. This really holds no importance but I thought I'd include it anyways. Even if we accept this general basis that this country was founded on blood native americans, how is this relevant? Does this excuse black crime in America which I think he was trying to defend?

Next he rambles about white privilege and then complains that he was discriminated in better neighborhoods.

A few historical events and an incoherent argument came out as extremely dumb. He sounds bitter.

In my opinion, there are better explanations. Crime, generally is correlated with wealth. The wealth inequality between whites and blacks in America is huge. Secondly America has one of the highest incarceration rates from the developed world. I read somewhere even higher than communist china. Alot of blacks are affected by this since they are more prone to be incarcerated due to institutionalized racism but even more many blacks are incarcerated for minor things IMO like possession/sale of drugs and IMO these people end up become more prone to criminality when they are put in juvy or jail.

Basically there are much better arguments to be made. He was pmsing and was putting together a bunch of random historical events and trying to belittle white people as if they had no right to speak of crime because they are the master criminals or some shit. A completely fallacious argument....

Don't worry, oh the horror is a moronic racist that thinks white people constitute one large monolithic block that has gone around terrorising humanity since the dawn of time.

He keeps talking about history and yet he seems remarkably ignorant of anything to do with history. If he did he wouldn't be reducing the human RACE into the different races of white, black, yellow, brown and red. He is an idiot, plain and simple. Soon he'll be blaming people with blonde hair and blue eyes for nazism.

Oh the horror, how about you read this:

[url]http://racerelations.about.com/b/2011/01/29/how-a-genetic-mutation-led-to-the-white-race.htm[/url]

'As I've explained in my "What Is Race?" piece on the Race Relations site, scientists still say that race is more of a social construct than a scientific one because people of the so-called same race have more distinctions in their DNA than people of different races do. In fact, scientists posit that all people are roughly 99.5 percent genetically identical.'

And this:

[url]http://racerelations.about.com/od/understandingrac1/a/WhatIsRace.htm[/url]

'Race is fluid and thus difficult to pinpoint scientifically. “Race is a concept of human minds, not of nature,” Relethford writes.'

And then this:

[url]http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.88.9.1303[/url]

'The definition and relevance of race and ethnicity are ambiguous. Authors should be particularly careful about using these categories."

'The term Caucasian categorizes populations on the ill-defined basis of a common origin in the distant past in the Caucasus region of Central Europe. Most populations originating in India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh, for example, are Caucasian. Except as an erroneous euphemism for referring to persons of European descent, the word has little value in race, ethnicity, and health research. Freedman's plea that this term be rejected by science should be accepted.'

And then STFU and stop spouting racist claptrap.

[QUOTE=Rasheed1]I see alot of people chiming in to say that post is dumb.... but I dont see anyone saying it is [B]untrue[/B]. I would like to see someone come and say it is untrue and then break it down...

I dont personally like the tone in which is was written because I think it is accusatory and makes people defensive... But I dont think it is untrue at all.. I dont believe all white people are responsible for the things done by some of their ancestors, but I do agree with his statement that some people act like "if I've never really lived it then it doesn't exist" mentality of alot of posters, most of whom arent old enough to be my nephews..

I think the post is destructive, but it is not without merit and I would like to see one of the people who hate it come in and actually refute it, instead just saying its dumb..[/QUOTE]

As a white dude, the only issue I had with the post was him saying it's in our [i]nature[/i].

To be honest though, in the Middle Ages and even before, white people were killing each other all the ****ing time. For religious or political reasons. There was no "we're all white so we gotta stick together!" mentality like there is today.

You know what honestly pisses me off about us white people? How we love getting in other people's business. We're going to tell the Afghans and Iraqis how to run their country, live their lives, and practice their religion. We love to tell other people what's wrong in their community -- as if they don't already know what needs to happen when they actually live it!

I'm of the belief that change has to come from within. You know the phrase "the revolution will not be televised"? I originally thought that meant that corporate media wouldn't televise it, or they would lie about what was happening, etc.

But that's not it at all.

The revolution occurs in your mind.

So since my family came to the states about 20 years ago am I responsible for the killing of the native americans or american slavery (even though what was it only 10% of southerners owned slaves?) He is trying to use some ad hominems and white guilt to make his point among other fallacious arguments.

[QUOTE=reppy]
You know what honestly pisses me off about us white people? How we love getting in other people's business. We're going to tell the Afghans and Iraqis how to run their country, live their lives, and practice their religion. We love to tell other people what's wrong in their community -- as if they don't already know what needs to happen when they actually live it!
[/QUOTE]

This is more due to the interests of corporations, military companies, and other factors. Your average person whether white, black, asian whatever should be against such a thing because wars cost money that the government will end up printing which ends up hurting them most from inflation and they don't benefit for these wars and they will end up fighting them (military is majorly made of minorities so they are affected the worst.)

But a person that thinks like oh the horror will spin it to white people love going to war look at iraq, afghanistan etc. Although the current 1/2 black president is using illegal drones to kill people from thousands of miles away. My point is, such things are much more complicated than just race.

[QUOTE=Rasheed1]I see alot of people chiming in to say that post is dumb.... but I dont see anyone saying it is [B]untrue[/B]. I would like to see someone come and say it is untrue and then break it down...

I dont personally like the tone in which is was written because I think it is accusatory and makes people defensive... But I dont think it is untrue at all.. I dont believe all white people are responsible for the things done by some of their ancestors, but I do agree with his statement that some people act like "if I've never really lived it then it doesn't exist" mentality of alot of posters, most of whom arent old enough to be my nephews..

I think the post is destructive, but it is not without merit and I would like to see one of the people who hate it come in and actually refute it, instead just saying its dumb..[/QUOTE]My post explains why it is wrong.

It is entirely untrue and makes no sense in attributing all those different things to a single race. It is moronic and racist. It is the equivalent of attributing the massacres that have taken place in Africa to American slaves.


[QUOTE=reppy]As a white dude, the only issue I had with the post was him saying it's in our [i]nature[/i].

To be honest though, in the Middle Ages and even before, white people were killing each other all the ****ing time. For religious or political reasons. There was no "we're all white so we gotta stick together!" mentality like there is today.

You know what honestly pisses me off about us white people? How we love getting in other people's business. [B]We're going to tell the Afghans and Iraqis how to run their country, live their lives, and practice their religion. We love to tell other people what's wrong in their community -- as if they don't already know what needs to happen when they actually live it![/B]

I'm of the belief that change has to come from within. You know the phrase "the revolution will not be televised"? I originally thought that meant that corporate media wouldn't televise it, or they would lie about what was happening, etc.

But that's not it at all.

The revolution occurs in your mind.[/QUOTE] This is incredibly stupid and naive. The merits and demerits of those wars aside. The Iraqi people had no choice over what they suffered, and all lived in constant terror with Saddam having an iron-grip on power of which there was zero possibility of removal from within. He ran the kind of society where if your child was being executed the rest of the family had to attend and cheer or be put down also - that type of tyrant does not get thrown out without outside support - it just isn't feasible. Moreover, the US had to interfere on a daily basis for over a decade in Iraq by instituting the no-fly zone over Kurdistan that was preventing the complete genocide of the kurds. This was an entire country under the maniacal control of one psychopathic family, its inhabitants weren't running it in any way.

And in Afghanistan 50% of the population were consigned to live in slavery - what choice did they have? Not much, i assure you.

No one is telling anyone how to practice their religion either, you are just talking absolute nonsense.

[QUOTE=Rasheed1]I see alot of people chiming in to say that post is dumb.... but I dont see anyone saying it is [B]untrue[/B]. I would like to see someone come and say it is untrue and then break it down...

I dont personally like the tone in which is was written because I think it is accusatory and makes people defensive... But I dont think it is untrue at all.. I dont believe all white people are responsible for the things done by some of their ancestors, but I do agree with his statement that some people act like "if I've never really lived it then it doesn't exist" mentality of alot of posters, most of whom arent old enough to be my nephews..

I think the post is destructive, but it is not without merit and I would like to see one of the people who hate it come in and actually refute it, instead just saying its dumb..[/QUOTE]


The post was delivered purposely destructive because you have to destroy to rebuild in the same place.

Look at life right now. It requires a big shock to collective conscience in order for people to say differently.


9/11 went down and people suddenly started to ask different questions.


Now I'm not claiming to be anything other than another random poster on a message board but the fact remains people don't want to hear most things and other times people just aren't ready to hear it.



No ethnicity is without their own faults. But as one poster said, racism is the biggest conspiracy theory? Come on now.


The days of being polite and tactful about this are over.

[QUOTE=Graviton]White people were usually in charge of the most powerful nations throughout the course of history, leading the strongest armies and empires. Obviously during those ages war and massacre was widespread and it was basically a constant battle over land and resources.

So them being the ones that were involved in those terrible acts and injustices isn't a surprise, I just don't understand what the issue is. The biggest bully in the playground is going to be an asshole and will cause lot of damage, doesn't matter if he is white, black or yellow. :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]


I think you have a great point.. I dont disagree that no matter who is the bully they will resort to genocide and all types of atrocities.. I do not agree with his comment that it is white people's "nature" to commit these acts as if white people are different than others and do things that others wouldnt do in their position..


[quote]Well first he starts by compare historical events that have happened and compared it to black crime in the United States. The argument is completely fallacious and would like be someone including random events in Africa, a few thug members and then use that as some sort of argument against Trayvon Martin.

Second he goes on " you have founded this country on blood and native americans" what this has to do with this thread or black crime I'm not sure. Hell Zimmerman is Half Peruvian and probably of some Amerindian descent. This really holds no importance but I thought I'd include it anyways. Even if we accept this general basis that this country was founded on blood native americans, how is this relevant? Does this excuse black crime in America which I think he was trying to defend?

Next he rambles about white privilege and then complains that he was discriminated in better neighborhoods.

A few historical events and an incoherent argument came out as extremely dumb. He sounds bitter.

In my opinion, there are better explanations. Crime for one is correlated with inequality of wealth. The wealth inequality between whites in blacks in America is huge. Secondly America has one of the highest incarceration rates from the developed world. I read somewhere even higher than communist china. Alot of blacks are affected by this since they are more prone to be incarcerated due to institutionalized racism but even more many blacks are incarcanated for minor things IMO like possession/sale of drugs and IMO these people end up become more prone to criminality when they are put in juvy or jail.

Basically there are much better arguments to be made. He was pmsing and was putting together a bunch of random historical events and trying to belittle white people as if they had no right to speak of crime because they are the master criminals or some shit. A completely fallacious argument....[/quote]

I just gonna say I respect your opinion... I agree when you say "[I]wealth inequality between whites in blacks in America is huge. Secondly America has one of the highest incarceration rates from the developed world. I read somewhere even higher than communist china. Alot of blacks are affected by this since they are more prone to be incarcerated due to institutionalized racism but even more many blacks are incarcanated for minor things IMO like possession/sale of drugs and IMO these people end up become more prone to criminality when they are put in juvy or jail."
[/I]

I think that is his point... You are right that he didnt present it well and put people on the defensive


[quote]Don't worry, oh the horror is a moronic racist that thinks white people constitute one large monolithic block that has gone around terrorising humanity since the dawn of time.

He keeps talking about history and yet he seems remarkably ignorant of anything to do with history. If he did he wouldn't be reducing the human RACE into the different races of white, black, yellow, brown and red. He is an idiot, plain and simple. Soon he'll be blaming people with blonde hair and blue eyes for nazism.

Oh the horror, how about you read this:

[url]http://racerelations.about.com/b/201...white-race.htm[/url]

'As I've explained in my "What Is Race?" piece on the Race Relations site, scientists still say that race is more of a social construct than a scientific one because people of the so-called same race have more distinctions in their DNA than people of different races do. In fact, scientists posit that all people are roughly 99.5 percent genetically identical.'

And this:

[url]http://racerelations.about.com/od/un...WhatIsRace.htm[/url]

'Race is fluid and thus difficult to pinpoint scientifically.

[QUOTE=ALBballer]This is more due to the interests of corporations, military companies, and other factors. Your average person whether white, black, asian whatever should be against such a thing because wars cost money that the government will end up printing which ends up hurting them most from inflation and they don't benefit for these wars and they will end up fighting them [B](military is majorly made of minorities so they are affected the worst.)[/B]

But a person that thinks like oh the horror will spin it to white people love going to war look at iraq, afghanistan etc. Although the current 1/2 black president is using illegal drones to kill people from thousands of miles away. [B]My point is, such things are much more complicated than just race.[/B][/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.statisticbrain.com/demographics-of-active-duty-u-s-military/[/url]

Are they really?

And you are right there: the world is not made of peace and fluffy bunnies, and the realities force people to make tough choices. Obama has had to renege on his promises as one reality after another has smacked him in the face.

[QUOTE=oh the horror]The post was delivered purposely destructive because you have to destroy to rebuild in the same place.

Look at life right now. It requires a big shock to collective conscience in order for people to say differently.


9/11 went down and people suddenly started to ask different questions.


Now I'm not claiming to be anything other than another random poster on a message board but the fact remains people don't want to hear most things and other times people just aren't ready to hear it.



No ethnicity is without their own faults. But as one poster said, racism is the biggest conspiracy theory? Come on now.


The days of being polite and tactful about this are over.[/QUOTE]


I totally feel where you are coming from with your earlier post... and I am with you 100% on the dismissive attitude of some posters on the board.. Like I said, I think it mostly immature kids who havent even been walking this earth for 30 years and yet they talk like they know it all in absolutes.. and the other part is simply trolls who think its funny to disrespect others and act like a total ass hole on the board..

[QUOTE=oh the horror]The post was delivered purposely destructive because you have to destroy to rebuild in the same place.

Look at life right now. It requires a big shock to collective conscience in order for people to say differently.


9/11 went down and people suddenly started to ask different questions.


Now I'm not claiming to be anything other than another random poster on a message board but the fact remains people don't want to hear most things and other times people just aren't ready to hear it.



[B]No ethnicity is without their own faults. But as one poster said, racism is the biggest conspiracy theory? Come on now.
[/B]

The days of being polite and tactful about this are over.[/QUOTE]
Ethnicities don't have any faults collectively, PEOPLE have faults, what can't you understand about that?

The way you look at race only justifies racists. We should be past racial distinctions by now, but they are just becoming further and further ingrained.

For all the posters who care? I would just like to mention that ultimately we all need each other and we wont get anywhere if we go to war with each other over things like race and differing opinions...

Im trying to keep that in mind just like everyone else... we need to find a way to make these problems work for us instead of against us

[QUOTE=Dresta]Ethnicities don't have any faults collectively, PEOPLE have faults, what can't you understand about that?[/QUOTE]

This.

The black people on ISH are so consumed with race and ethnicity.

[QUOTE=oh the horror]Frankly I couldnt care less what you have to say dude. Or anyone one of you for that matter.


History is what it is. And still continues on.


Sarcasm isn't saving anyone.[/QUOTE]
attributing past crimes done by white people to white people today that have absolutely nothing to do with any of those things is completely stupid and on top of that it doesn't make any sense at all because you completely ignored historical and cultural context. you've been vehemently preaching against racism and racial profiling, how can you possibly not see that you're literally doing the exact same thing? by saying murderous/evil traits are in our "nature" you're applying a blanket rule to every single person who happens to be a certain color. that is absolutely what racial profiling is. you're moving backwards and nothing you're saying is helping. it really is thoughts like yours that cause race relations to deteriorate and it's a sad train of thought

here's a fact: a black american is 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a white person than vice versa. you won't see me going around and saying "oh, well that must mean it must be in a black person's nature to want be violent" because that's stupid and unfair

[QUOTE=Dresta][b]Ethnicities don't have any faults collectively, PEOPLE have faults, what can't you understand about that?[/b]

The way you look at race only justifies racists. We should be past racial distinctions by now, but they are just becoming further and further ingrained.[/QUOTE]
EXACTLY

[QUOTE=Quizno]attributing past crimes done by white people to white people today that have absolutely nothing to do with any of those things is completely stupid and on top of that it doesn't make any sense at all because you completely ignored historical and cultural context. you've been vehemently preaching against racism and racial profiling, how can you possibly not see that you're literally doing the exact same thing? by saying murderous/evil traits are in "nature" you're applying a blanket rule to every single person who happens to be a certain color. that is absolutely what racial profiling is. you're moving backwards and nothing you're saying is helping. it really is thoughts like yours that cause race relations to deteriorate and it's a sad train of thought

here's a fact: a black american is 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a white person than vice versa. you won't see me going around and saying "oh, well that must mean it must be in a black person's nature to want be violent" because that's stupid and unfair[/QUOTE]


the problem is that you are preaching to the guy who feels attacked.. he isnt going to listen to that type of communication


The better path is to say .. "Hey I dont believe black people are naturally violent... I believe we have more in common than anything different"

I think "oh the horror" is doing what most of the posters on here are doing..

reacting to posts that offend them.. and the offenses are just escalating..

I think we all will be better served when we can talk about how we can work together ....


I feel where he is coming from... but I also can relate to the anger of a white person who sees his posts and says "hold up!! thats not me!! and thats not a fair assesment"

Im going to try to reach out to all poster who arent immature trolls and Im going to try and bridge a gap so we can understand each other better and get a feel for where we can relate to one another

[QUOTE=Rasheed1]the problem is that you are preaching to the guy who feels attacked.. he isnt going to listen to that type of communication


The better path is to say .. "Hey I dont believe black people are naturally violent... I believe we have more in common than anything different"

I think "oh the horror" is doing what most of the posters on here are doing..

reacting to posts that offend them.. and the offenses are just escalating..

I think we all will be better served when we can talk about how we can work together ....


I feel where he is coming from... but I also can relate to the anger of a white person who sees his posts and says "hold up!! thats not me!! and thats not a fair assesment"

Im going to try to reach out to all poster who arent immature trolls and Im going to try and bridge a gap so we can understand each other better and get a feel for where we can relate to one another[/QUOTE]
yeah, the responses are getting really out of hand. when i see someone say that because some europeans went on a religious crusade and murdered hundreds and thousands of people in an act of declared war and thus all white americans are evil by nature i feel compelled to respond. people are just so quick to attribute one person's mistake to an entire group of people because it's easy to do that, but that just promotes fear and hatred

edit: but rasheed i saw your post saying you don't think it's untrue. you really can't see why that post has logical fallacies? it's like saying that because blacks drop out of high school at a higher rate than any other race then that must mean it's in black people's nature to be incapable of completing a high school education. it's the exact same line of thinking. you don't see how that's a logical fallacy?

Someone brought up drug incarceration and it just made me think of Obama and what a joke the guy is.

If he really cared about African-Americans he would take steps towards ending the thing that is most oppressing them (the barbaric drug war) rather than uttering populist tripe like 'i could have been Trayvon Martin' without actually doing anything about anything. He is such a tool.

But no: the police and prison industry are far too dependant on the drug war, and their lobbies are too big and powerful to risk upsetting. No one seems to care about all the young lives it ruins. Meanwhile Al Sharpton is going around getting everyone riled up about something completely pointless.

I really feel bad for African Americans, i really do: they are just getting ****ed in so many ways, and even by people that are supposed to be their own representatives and community leaders. Suppose this mass of media time were actually used in a campaign to show how they are kept down by the drug war?

But noooo, let's spend countless hours focusing on a slightly ambiguous self-defense case! It's a ****ing joke.

edit: how can something still be being perpetuated that was mostly initiated by Nixon (a flagrant racist) who remarked in private about the drug war something like 'it is about targeting the blacks without seeming to do so.'?

And it isn't like only white people support the drug war, it is undoubtedly the majority of all ethnic groups - because they have all been brainwashed through fear and propaganda.

The drug war and denial of euthanasia are definitely the two great moral failings of our time: both completely disgraceful.

I still can't believe this is a story even worth bringing up, It should have never made headlines in the first place, you got two cowards, one coward gets jumped kills the other resulting in one less idiot on the planet and the other idiots life being ruined.

[QUOTE=Quizno]

edit: but rasheed i saw your post saying you don't think it's untrue. you really can't see why that post has logical fallacies? it's like saying that because blacks drop out of high school at a higher rate than any other race then that must mean it's in black people's nature to be incapable of completing a high school education. it's the exact same line of thinking. you don't see how that's a logical fallacy?[/QUOTE]


I dont disagree with his post as it pertains to the violent history of caucasians.. but like I said in response to reppy's post.. i dont believe that white people are more predisposed to violence than any other group.. i dont believe it is in their nature any more than any other group of human beings... I believe that black folks would do alot of same things if they had the power and motive to do it.. I think the issue is [B]power [/B] and [B]arrogance[/B] more than some kind of racial predisposition

[QUOTE=Rasheed1]I dont disagree with his post as it pertains to the [B]violent history of caucasians.[/B]. but like I said in response to reppy's post.. i dont believe that white people are more predisposed to violence than any other group.. i dont believe it is in their nature any more than any other group of human beings... I believe that black folks would do alot of same things if they had the power and motive to do it.. I think the issue is [B]power [/B] and [B]arrogance[/B] more than some kind of racial predisposition[/QUOTE]
Great, because i'm white, but i'm Slavic - does that make me exempt?

:biggums:

[QUOTE=Rasheed1][b]I dont disagree with his post as it pertains to the violent history of caucasians[/b].. but like I said in response to reppy's post.. i dont believe that white people are more predisposed to violence than any other group.. i dont believe it is in their nature any more than any other group of human beings... I believe that black folks would do alot of same things if they had the power and motive to do it.. I think the issue is [B]power [/B] and [B]arrogance[/B] more than some kind of racial predisposition[/QUOTE]
nobody disagrees with that; it's history. it's documented and there's no room to disagree with the historical validity of what he said. but that wasn't the point of his post. he clearly stated that it's in white people's "nature" to be violent/evil (he didn't [b]specifically[/b] say that but based off of the context it's clearly what he meant to say) and then you said you didn't disagree with it. i'm glad you clarified though, because he was saying that white people are predisposed to committing violent crimes and modern whites are inherently evil due to some ancient actions of some people who shared their skin tone

which, by the way, is an extremely racist thing to say and i don't think it's something you'd agree with, which is a relief to me

[QUOTE=Dresta]Great, because i'm white, but i'm Slavic - does that make me exempt?

:biggums:[/QUOTE]


You'll have to excuse my ignorance on that question...

I guess it means "caucasian" means whatever we think it means or doesnt mean (I dont know and I dont think it matters :oldlol: )

I just think we all have to start looking to see each other's point of view so we can see where each of us are similar to each other instead of different from the other..

then we'll have an easier time working together

[QUOTE=Rasheed1]For all the posters who care? I would just like to mention that ultimately we all need each other and we wont get anywhere if we go to war with each other over things like race and differing opinions...

Im trying to keep that in mind just like everyone else... we need to find a way to make these problems work for us instead of against us[/QUOTE]

:cheers:

[QUOTE=Dresta]Great, because i'm white, but i'm Slavic - does that make me exempt?

:biggums:[/QUOTE]

Well in America race/ethnicity/culture is all blurred. Hitler might not have considered you untermensch but according to people like oh the horror you were descended of british slave owners and related to timothy mcveigh.

how does that saying go, it's all greek to me?

:D

[QUOTE=Rasheed1]You'll have to excuse my ignorance on that question...

I guess it means "caucasian" means whatever we think it means or doesnt mean (I dont know and I dont think it matters :oldlol: )

I just think we all have to start looking to see each other's point of view so we can see where each of us are similar to each other instead of different from the other..

then we'll have an easier time working together[/QUOTE]
Thing is it is adults and their own neurosis that perpetuate this problem. I remember my primary school (Ages 5-11) in London, and it was so diverse ethnically that i don't remember a single question or comment about skin colour ever coming up. People just had varying skin tones - that was it, and it was normal. Then once you get into your teens and grow up a bit you start getting signals from the adult world and its constant obsession with race, and this affects people subconsciously, and undoubtedly leads to far more racist sentiment than it eliminates.

You get people throwing around the racist card so frivolously that these distinctions become imprinted on the mind (it is now apparently racist to have a problem with someone's religion) that people that would never have otherwise had a racist thought start to think about these things. That's why i think the best way to get rid of racism is to lose the distinctions, integrate and diversify communities, and then stop spreading the neuroses of the adult world to children. It won't go away until people stop obsessing over it (and i often feel that white people that get all hyper-sensitive over race issues are overcompensating for their own deeply hidden prejudices).

Everyone should have equality before the law, after that it is up to time to change people's sentiments. It will take a generation to have grown up with it being the norm before things change, but we are hindering that by sending race problems down the generations. I just don't think it helps, at all.

[QUOTE=Dresta]Thing is it is adults and their own neurosis that perpetuate this problem. I remember my primary school (Ages 5-11) in London, and it was so diverse ethnically that i don't remember a single question or comment about skin colour ever coming up. People just had varying skin tones - that was it, and it was normal. Then once you get into your teens and grow up a bit you start getting signals from the adult world and its constant obsession with race, and this affects people subconsciously, and undoubtedly leads to far more racist sentiment than it eliminates.

You get people throwing around the racist card so frivolously that these distinctions become imprinted on the mind (it is now apparently racist to have a problem with someone's religion) that people that would never have otherwise had a racist thought start to think about these things. That's why i think the best way to get rid of racism is to lose the distinctions, integrate and diversify communities, and then stop spreading the neuroses of the adult world to children. It won't go away until people stop obsessing over it (and i often feel that white people that get all hyper-sensitive over race issues are overcompensating for their own deeply hidden prejudices).

Everyone should have equality before the law, after that it is up to time to change people's sentiments. It will take a generation to have grown up with it being the norm before things change, but we are hindering that by sending race problems down the generations. I just don't think it helps, at all.[/QUOTE]


I cant disagree with any of that..

The problem is that America is poisoned by this issue and many people see things thru this lens, so even if it isnt real? it becomes real because so many people have experiences that are related to race..

We have to find a way to break free of that.. I think people's ethnicities are beautiful and something that everyone can share in and gain knowledge from... But race as it exists in America is about stereotypes and "us against them" and it has very negative connotations at this time.

I think we can break free of it if it doesnt destroy us first

I was just reminded of this story.

[url]http://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html[/url]

It's a good read. Might creep you out a little, but in a good way.

[IMG]http://martinclothing.com/assets/63/IMG_9633.jpg[/IMG]

Although a hoodie doesn't signify someone as a criminal but you need to be aware of your surroundings and adapt to the environment. I like to wear ski masks when I go fishing at the lake in the winter. Does it mean it's ok to leave it on and walk into a store? No.

[QUOTE=9erempiree][IMG]http://martinclothing.com/assets/63/IMG_9633.jpg[/IMG]

Although a hoodie doesn't signify someone as a criminal but you need to be aware of your surroundings and adapt to the environment. I like to wear ski masks when I go fishing at the lake in the winter. Does it mean it's ok to leave it on and walk into a store? No.[/QUOTE]

Why the fck can't you wear a hoodie anywhere you want to go? A hoodie and a ski mask are completely different.

[QUOTE=Dictator]Why the fck can't you wear a hoodie anywhere you want to go? A hoodie and a ski mask are completely different.[/QUOTE]

I don't think there is anything wrong wearing a hoodie but the hoodie has evolved. Just like there are dress codes in life, people or especially kids need to be more aware of their surroundings.

If I was going for a stroll at night, I usually where my Nike's with reflectors and some sort of reflective shirt so I can be seen and be safe. I'm just saying people need to be aware of their environment more and dress appropriately. I know I won't be wearing a dark hoodie or whatever color Martin was wearing.

Like I said, the hoodie didn't kill Martin, GZ did, but sometimes kids need to know not to be wearing certain things. As stupid as it may sound, society judges you a certain way.


Also, the hoodie have evolved. Was Martin wearing one of these? These kind of hoodies are everywhere in the mall.

[IMG]http://www.toxel.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/hoodie12.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Dictator]Why the fck can't you wear a hoodie anywhere you want to go? A hoodie and a ski mask are completely different.[/QUOTE]

You are right in theory. You should be able to wear a hoodie most places. There are some events obviously you should wear something professional/dressed up.

The only thing is some people will react overly negatively towards you for wearing a hoodie. Just like technically according to the first amendment you have the right to go up to people and express your desire to have sex with their spouse. Just keep in mind it might create a negative reaction in the other party.

Also there is nothing inherently offensive/intimidating about the way Trayvon was dressed. I saw a picture of his dead body and he was wearing a hoodie with tight pants. he looked like an annoying hipster to me. IMO 100% Zim found him threatening because of racial profiling.

[QUOTE=oh the horror]Frankly I couldnt care less what you have to say dude. Or anyone one of you for that matter.


History is what it is. And still continues on.


Sarcasm isn't saving anyone.[/QUOTE]

:facepalm The fact that you think that any other race with the capability to dominate another race would have acted differently from europeans shows your bias/ignorance.

Do some research on Imperial Japan. Eg. Nanjing Massacre, Unit 731, Bataan Death March, Comfort Women, etc.

Do some research on China, and their various genocides (Uyghur genocide during the early Qing Dynasty). there is a reason a landmass as large as modern China is predominantly Han Chinese.

Do some research on the Mongol Empire. The ingrained racial system, How they scared cities into surrendering without a fight, rape and pillaging to the extent that 32 million people are estimated to be descended from Genghis.

Do some research on the Arab Slave trade, and how brutal it was.
The Hutus and Tutsis and the war in the Congo, where rape is used as form of warfare. The Sudan/south sudan war, etc.

Today in mexico their are cartels that terrorize whole regions of mexico. The gather up defenseless people and chop their heads off and dump their bodies in major intersections. In latin America MS-13 and 18th street gangs terrorize everyone. In the US inner city violence can get you shot for "disrespecting" or wearing the wrong colors.

The reason white people have dominated the world isnt because we are inherently more violent. it is because during the last 500 years we have achieved the capability to do so. The chinese invented gunpowder, but they werent able to fully exploit its military potential. During the Opium wars the British Empire showed the Qing Empire how powerful guns were. The Massive armies of the Qinq which had previously been world beaters were slaughtered by British firing lines. Also British cannons>Qing Cannons and British warships > Qing warships.

Whites didn't really dominate and divide up africa until Hiram Stevens Maxim invented the Maxim Gun – the first portable, fully automatic machine gun.

The old saying "what ever happens we have the maxim gun, and they dont."

Had these military technologies been discovered by other races those races would have done the same thing.

Edit: Only in the last 500 years has Europe been in a good position. The ottoman empires, mongol empires, arab Caliphates, etc did just as bad if not worse to peoples under their dominion. Look at various countries in modern times. When the Hutu go the opportunity to attack the tutsis look what they did. When Arab sudanese go the chance to attack black sudanese look what they did. Look what happened to blacks in Libya after the rebels took over. The atrocities during the Congolese war. The slave conditions in cocoa farms and diamond mines. what happened to ethnic chinese in indonesian riots. what the khmer rouge did in Cambodia.

[QUOTE=Rasheed1]I cant disagree with any of that..

The problem is that America is poisoned by this issue and many people see things thru this lens, so even if it isnt real? it becomes real because so many people have experiences that are related to race..

We have to find a way to break free of that.. I think people's ethnicities are beautiful and something that everyone can share in and gain knowledge from... But race as it exists in America is about stereotypes and "us against them" and it has very negative connotations at this time.

I think we can break free of it if it doesnt destroy us first[/QUOTE]
The young need to be integrated, and adults need to stop spreading their neuroses to their kids, regardless of whether they think it justified or not, or whether their lives have been unfair. it is the only way things will change. The primacy of the family means the ultimate responsibility always lies with the parents, but parents in general are so quick to instill their own prejudices in their children.
[QUOTE=MavsSuperFan]:facepalm The fact that you think that any other race with the capability to dominate another race would have acted differently from europeans shows your bias/ignorance.

Do some research on Imperial Japan. Eg. Nanjing Massacre, Unit 731, Bataan Death March, Comfort Women, etc.

Do some research on China, and their various genocides (Uyghur genocide during the early Qing Dynasty). there is a reason a landmass as large as modern China is predominantly Han Chinese.

Do some research on the Mongol Empire. The ingrained racial system, How they scared cities into surrendering without a fight, rape and pillaging to the extent that 32 million people are estimated to be descended from Genghis.

Do some research on the Arab Slave trade, and how brutal it was.
The Hutus and Tutsis and the war in the Congo, where rape is used as form of warfare. The Sudan/south sudan war, etc.

Today in mexico their are cartels that terrorize whole regions of mexico. The gather up defenseless people and chop their heads off and dump their bodies in major intersections. In latin America MS-13 and 18th street gangs terrorize everyone. In the US inner city violence can get you shot for "disrespecting" or wearing the wrong colors.

The reason white people have dominated the world isnt because we are inherently more violent. it is because during the last 500 years we have achieved the capability to do so. The chinese invented gunpowder, but they werent able to fully exploit its military potential. During the Opium wars the British Empire showed the Qing Empire how powerful guns were. The Massive armies of the Qinq which had previously been world beaters were slaughtered by British firing lines. Also British cannons>Qing Cannons and British warships > Qing warships.

Whites didn't really dominate and divide up africa until Hiram Stevens Maxim invented the Maxim Gun

[QUOTE=9erempiree]
[IMG]http://www.toxel.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/hoodie12.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

:lol :oldlol: :D :roll: :applause: :cheers: :banana: :rockon: :pimp:

All the guys going at Oh the Horror's post you ever considered trying to see things from his point of view? I'm pretty sure the guy isn't even black but the negativity and general contempt shown towards black people in this thread made him lash out. Its easy to criticize but hard to try understand other people's views.

Mods, we need to change the title of this thread to:

"Charles Barkley loses 75% of his black fans"

[QUOTE=longtime lurker]All the guys going at Oh the Horror's post you ever considered trying to see things from his point of view? I'm pretty sure the guy isn't even black but the negativity and general contempt shown towards black people in this thread made him lash out. Its easy to criticize but hard to try understand other people's views.[/QUOTE]
I don't care whether he's black or not, his comments were stupid, ignorant and racist, hence the criticism.

I don't care what caused such moronic views, because what caused them is irrelevant to their validity, which is all that i'm concerned with. I don't have time to try and 'understand' people over the internet, geez. He could be anybody, and could have any agenda, how could i possibly know?