Russell to LeBron: "Thank you for leaving me off your Mt. Rushmore."

[QUOTE=tpols]Did you see him play? All I can go off is the words of his contemporaries.. who thought he was better than players who had way gaudier numbers.. and who explained that he was the glue holding the C's dynasty together.
[/quote]
I never doubted his greatness, his ability to get others on the same page. I did see like two full games of Russell and quarters of about four others on YouTube and '64 one of his best years was among them. '66 and 61 were among the others.

[quote]
credit to jlip obviously.. read this a while ago. You think these guys dont know what theyre talking about? Ever think Russel knew the strengths and weaknesses of his team and adapted accordingly.. ie if he was on a shit team he would have worked/adapted in a different way?[/QUOTE]
That's conjecture. He didn't manifest a lot of skill in what I seen of him. I think it was somewhat of a Aurabach Rule to up Russell. I think this extended beyond the Celtics. Mikan might have been blacklisted for saying Wilt would stuff Bill in the basket... Mikan was never treated right.

The best tribute to a player are those who come up imitating him. There isn't one player that has ever said they patterned their game after Russell. Even Jordan was imitated and he was more of a one of a kind type of player ever seen.

The quotes you posted would be said about every superstar without doubt tho. You can change names with other players pretty easy? No?

[QUOTE=Pointguard]I never doubted his greatness, his ability to get others on the same page. I did see like two full games of Russell and quarters of about four others on YouTube and '64 one of his best years was among them. '66 and 61 were among the others.


That's conjecture. He didn't manifest a lot of skill in what I seen of him. I think it was somewhat of a Aurabach Rule to up Russell. I think this extended beyond the Celtics. Mikan might have been blacklisted for saying Wilt would stuff Bill in the basket... Mikan was never treated right.

The best tribute to a player are those who come up imitating him. [B]There isn't one player that has ever said they patterned their game after Russell.[/B] Even Jordan was imitated and he was more of a one of a kind type of player ever seen.

The quotes you posted would be said about every superstar without doubt tho. You can change names with other players pretty easy? No?[/QUOTE]
False. Jabbar did, Elvin Hayes did, Willis Reed did. They've all said it, and I'm sure there are many many more. You are a decent poster but your attitude towards Russell is borderline trolling. From what I have seen and put together based on testimonial and film he was a lot better a player than you seem to think he was.

[QUOTE=Pointguard] There isn't one player that has ever said they patterned their game after Russell.
[/QUOTE]


I believe Kwame Brown did, and ironically he is probably the most accurate comparison for what Russell would be today.

[SIZE="3"]Kareem earlier this week regarding Lebron's list:[/SIZE]

[url]http://youtu.be/9HyTIak-_y8?t=4m36s[/url]


[SIZE="5"]"[B]Lebron you gotta do more homework[/B]"[/SIZE]

:applause:

[QUOTE=Akrazotile]I believe Kwame Brown did, and ironically he is probably the most accurate comparison for what Russell would be today.[/QUOTE]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

funny

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW][SIZE="3"]Kareem earlier this week regarding Lebron's list:[/SIZE]

[url]http://youtu.be/9HyTIak-_y8?t=4m36s[/url]


[SIZE="5"]"[B]Lebron you gotta do more homework[/B]"[/SIZE]

:applause:[/QUOTE]

LOL, none of the basketball greats respect LeCollusion*

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]False. Jabbar did, Elvin Hayes did, Willis Reed did. They've all said it, and I'm sure there are many many more. You are a decent poster but your attitude towards Russell is borderline trolling. From what I have seen and put together based on testimonial and film he was a lot better a player than you seem to think he was.[/QUOTE]
They didn't play ANY THING like Russell. Their games were far removed from Russell's.

Elvin Hayes? Please tell me the similarity. Going after rebounds? Hayes was consumed with the offensive side of play.

You think Reed had absolutely no cognizance of his body build and lack of springs? Ok they were left handed?

Jabbar was super skilled and played his game from that skill point and was an original if I ever saw one. I can see if they said they wanted to win like him but they weren't even setting picks like Russell - minus Reed. They didn't do outlet passes that good. They didn't go out to defend their man far out. They didn't play defense with their feet. To say they patterned their game after him is a bit of a stretch.

I never troll. I give Russell a lot of credit. But he can definitely be left off of people's Mounts and isn't a gimme for top center or best player. He won like crazy. But that doesn't mean I should see skills when I didn't.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW][SIZE="3"]Kareem earlier this week regarding Lebron's list:[/SIZE]

[url]http://youtu.be/9HyTIak-_y8?t=4m36s[/url]


[SIZE="5"]"[B]Lebron you gotta do more homework[/B]"[/SIZE]

:applause:[/QUOTE]
Now this is trolling.

[QUOTE=Pointguard]They didn't play ANY THING like Russell. Their games were far removed from Russell's.

Elvin Hayes? Please tell me the similarity. Going after rebounds? Hayes was consumed with the offensive side of play.

You think Reed had absolutely no cognizance of his body build and lack of springs? Ok they were left handed?

Jabbar was super skilled and played his game from that skill point and was an original if I ever saw one. I can see if they said they wanted to win like him but they weren't even setting picks like Russell - minus Reed. They didn't do outlet passes that good. They didn't go out to defend their man far out. They didn't play defense with their feet. To say they patterned their game after him is a bit of a stretch.

I never troll. I give Russell a lot of credit. But he can definitely be left off of people's Mounts and isn't a gimme for top center or best player. He won like crazy. But that doesn't mean I should see skills when I didn't.[/QUOTE]
God damn it seems like you haven't got a clue how Russell played, or what he did and how much of it those guys TRIED to emulate. Stop looking at their differences and start looking for their similarities. I don't think you've seen enough of Russell though, from the sounds of things. Doesn't seem like you understand the breadth of his abilities and impact. Those guys DID emulate Russell, to the best of each of their abilities, they of course had their own different set of tools, flair and skill sets to put a twist on it but at the end of the day Russell was one giant inspiration for how they played and what habits they'd pick up on the court. Just because you're not aware of how much Russell could do and how much others emulated his play doesn't mean it isn't the truth. I think you need to do a lot more research on Russell before you jump to these conclusions. Russell isn't some guy who played great defense 'but' (whatever insult... bad offense, bad practice habits, unskilled etc) and got lucky 11 times. You've got him pegged wrong if that's what you believe.

[QUOTE=T_L_P]:biggums:

Just take away LeBron (no Russell) and that Heat team is still a top 2 seed in the East[/QUOTE]
:biggums:
With Wade missing every 3rd game and unable to play in back to backs? :facepalm

@ these niqqas furiously arguing about players who retired decades before they were born. Lol. Niqqas acting like they were at every game of Russell's rookie season cautiously taking notes.

[QUOTE=NumberSix]@ these niqqas furiously arguing about players who retired decades before they were born. Lol. Niqqas acting like they were at every game of Russell's rookie season cautiously taking notes.[/QUOTE]
Sad isn't it?

**** Bill Russel.

When Lebron was throwing lame dunks shirtless in practice, was Russell there with his mobile recording video? No he wasn't, but Lebron's fh@ggots teammates where.

Quid pro quo

[QUOTE=Blue&Orange]When Lebron was throwing lame dunks shirtless in practice, was Russell there with his mobile recording video? No he wasn't, but Lebron's fh@ggots teammates where.

Quid pro quo


Lebron is on the mount rushmore of *******ry\beta[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131126084710/walkingdead/images/0/0f/Post-15337-Christian-Bale-confused-gif-Hje6.gif[/IMG]

There is really only one definite player who should be in everybodies mt. Rushmore and that is MJ, the rest is virtually impossible to make without always leaving at least 1-2 guys "who should be there instead".

[QUOTE=pauk]There is really only one definite player who should be in everybodies mt. Rushmore and that is MJ, the rest is virtually impossible to make without always leaving at least 1-2 guys "who should be there instead".[/QUOTE]
I agree.

Why it became this big?

LeBron listed the most influential players to him. Picking Mount Rushmore is not just about picking the greatest 4. It is more like the most influential.

[IMG]http://sportscrack.com/images/lebrondirktaste_large.jpg[/IMG]

Did Bill wear this t-shirt? :lol

[QUOTE=Odinn]Why it became this big?

LeBron listed the most influential players to him. Picking Mount Rushmore is not just about picking the greatest 4. It is more like the most influential.[/QUOTE]
Exactly.

[QUOTE=tpols]hell no I wouldnt choose kobe over russell.. I havent seen him play, but Ive read a lot about him and specifically seen what past legends have said and all signs point towards him being the master of intangibles and on another level of understandoing how to impact the game[/QUOTE]

Seriously? That means nothing. All the historical accounts are probably skewed by the fact that he's the one of the greatest winners ever. But if you haven't seen him play, you just don't know enough to decide who the better player is.

And yet another cold, ruthless victory for Russell.

These pathetic bran stans disrespecting Russell.... :facepalm

Basketball isn't just about stats, it's sad we don't have enough footage of 50-60's basketball...

I said it once, I will say it again. It is the Lebron haters that reveal the greatness of Lebron. Not his stans. Not the media or his teammates or opponents, but his haters.

Lebron was asked to name HIS Mt. Rushmore of NBA players. And because he did not name YOUR Mt. Rushmore haters are catching feelings. All because it is Lebron, whose opinion really shouldn't be more important than anyone else when it comes to lists like this.

If CP3 was asked to name HIS Mt. Rushmore and left off Magic or Bird, not a ONE of you would give a rat's ass. Or if it was Wade who left of Russell, I promise you we will not get any of this "Oh my God, he is disrespecting a basketball legend." We certainly would not get more than 0.5 a page.

But because it is Lebron, we get 20+ pages of haters talking about Lebron's opinion. This haters, is why Lebron is already an all-time great.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]God damn it seems like you haven't got a clue how Russell played, or what he did and how much of it those guys TRIED to emulate. Stop looking at their differences and start looking for their similarities. I don't think you've seen enough of Russell though, from the sounds of things. Doesn't seem like you understand the breadth of his abilities and impact. Those guys DID emulate Russell,
[/quote]
Its obvious that those three players [B]did not pattern their game[/B] after Russell because Kareem and Hayes had whole different priorities on the court. They came in taking 24 and 25 shots per game. They played a skilled game. They didn't look to facilitate on offense. They didn't outlet like Russell. Its been years since I seen the Haye's clip but I recall he came in a gunner and later on became defensive minded, but it didn't stick either. It would serve Reed no advantage at all to think like playing like Russell. That's like Barkley emulating Gervin.

[quote]
to the best of each of their abilities, they of course had their own different set of tools, flair and skill sets to put a twist on it but at the end of the day Russell was one giant inspiration for how they played and what habits they'd pick up on the court. Just because you're not aware of how much Russell could do and how much others emulated his play doesn't mean it isn't the truth. I think you need to do a lot more research on Russell before you jump to these conclusions. Russell isn't some guy who played great defense 'but' (whatever insult... bad offense, bad practice habits, unskilled etc) and got lucky 11 times. You've got him pegged wrong if that's what you believe.[/QUOTE]
I only said he wasn't skilled with the pill in his hand and its been written he didn't like to practice. Everything else you are saying. I have him in my top five all time. So, that's no diss. And I am one of a few, that argues about the strength of defense when comparing players here. He has a flaw and its a flaw that few people would let go. In the Mount Rushmore of all sports in the OTC section, all of the people seriously mentioned were SUPER duper skilled players and were magical with the tool they worked with. Not average or below average. Its not a crazy request on my part. And people have a right to want skilled craft as the pillar of their criteria of greatness.

[QUOTE=FLDFSU]I said it once, I will say it again. It is the Lebron haters that reveal the greatness of Lebron. Not his stans. Not the media or his teammates or opponents, but his haters.

Lebron was asked to name [B]HIS[/B] Mt. Rushmore of NBA players. And because he did not name YOUR Mt. Rushmore haters are catching feelings. All because it is Lebron, whose opinion really shouldn't be more important than anyone else when it comes to lists like this.

If CP3 was asked to name HIS Mt. Rushmore and left off Magic or Bird, not a ONE of you would give a rat's ass. Or if it was Wade who left of Russell, I promise you we will not get any of this "Oh my God, he is disrespecting a basketball legend." We certainly would not get more than 0.5 a page.

But because it is Lebron, we get 20+ pages of haters talking about Lebron's opinion. This haters, is why Lebron is already an all-time great.[/QUOTE]
This.

Lebron has a Mount that he fits in on. Guys that are the pillars to his game and his aspiring greatness. Everybody should have a Mount that they aspire to fit into. Nobody is really going hard about the original Mount Rushmore and its in stone. Its a personal thing as to who you have as great influence on your life. Not something Lebron is imposing on other people.

With that said, you wonder if Jordan, Mr.-not-give-props, on his Mount? Could you imagine the uproar when he says David Thompson? But if its personal why should anybody care?

How does one pattern their game off Bill Russell? Hes a defensive and rebounding beast, master of intangibles and team play. He wasnt flash..Pointguard, by your definition of greatness, Allen Iverson is a top 5 GOAT candidate :oldlol:


Kids want to play like whats in style.. what looks cool. Crossovers, dunks, fadeaways.. thats why Dr. J, Jordan, Kobe etc. are the ones you see kids copying and trying to be like.

Who patterns their game off of a guy like Russell or Rodman? Thats just hard work lol.. no oohing and ahhing over it but its what wins. Such a arbitrary and unimportant way of judging something. Has absolutely nothing to do with the impact they had.

[QUOTE=DaSeba5]You simply can't have a Mt Rushmore of basketball players.[/QUOTE]
yes you can
magic/kobe/kareem/shaq

Actually you can pattern your game after Russell by observing the details of how he does things. How to keep blocks inbounds... the art and science of help and recover, all the little tricks to help you be a threat but still be able to protect the basket... the best timing and technique on blocks, when and how to jump... how to use your lower body (your posterior, in fact) to gain position on the block on offense, and how to deny position on defense... how to screen properly, how to do a good outlet pass etc.

Effort is only one part of defense. There is a lot of skill involved. Same thing with off the ball offense.

[QUOTE=JohnFreeman][IMG]http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131126084710/walkingdead/images/0/0f/Post-15337-Christian-Bale-confused-gif-Hje6.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
What? Missed the LEbron lame dunk session in practice while his teammates where in the sidelines taking pictures, after he said he would win the dunk contest but being afraid to actually try :lol

Miami betas.

He said that? Sounds mad as fcuk! Of course now he's not salty, but its "ether" lmfao...

[QUOTE=Pointguard] [B][I]There isn't one player that has ever [SIZE="5"]said[/SIZE] they patterned their game after Russell.[/I][/B] [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=BoutPractice]Actually you can pattern your game after Russell by observing the details of how he does things. How to keep blocks inbounds... the art and science of help and recover, all the little tricks to help you be a threat but still be able to protect the basket... the best timing and technique on blocks, when and how to jump... how to use your lower body (your posterior, in fact) to gain position on the block on offense, and how to deny position on defense... how to screen properly, how to do a good outlet pass etc.

Effort is only one part of defense. There is a lot of skill involved. Same thing with off the ball offense.[/QUOTE]
Yea.. none of that is sexy or appealing. Most players especially young guys have a selfish mentality. They arent looking to be leaders and master finer points of the game. Theyre trying to score and put up stats, get paid, dunk on people..

Rebounders and defenders dont get paid or attention like scorers.. which is why scoring/offense in general is the most emulated thing.


Nobody's showing off their screening skills at the park..

[QUOTE=pauk]There is really only one definite player who should be in everybodies mt. Rushmore and that is MJ, the rest is virtually impossible to make without always leaving at least 1-2 guys "who should be there instead".[/QUOTE]


No not really. It should definitely be Jordan AND Russell, and the other two spots are debatable IMO. I don't see what argument there is that Russell should not be there. Greatest winner, exemplifies team play, unselfishness, and defense and in his time was universally regarded as the best player in the league, which is really the biggest reason why someone like Oscar, or even Wilt, has no place being picked ahead of Russell in a list like this. Sure, there's arguments about his offense and him having such greater teammates then his peers, which have shown to be dumb arguments and proven wrong for the most part. And sure, you can argue that his era wasn't as difficult, which I would agree with, but fact remains he was a pioneer and his era really set the motion for the NBA to be a great league and it wouldn't be right to not include someone from his era with the league still being relatively young. Its one thing if the league has been around for hundreds of years, but it hasn't.

[QUOTE=JohnFreeman]Anyone would win in the era Russell played in.[/QUOTE]



then why didn't they?

[QUOTE=BuffaloBill]then why didn't they?[/QUOTE]
Because they weren't born yet.


Keep it real. Roy Hibbert would absolutely dominate Bill Russell.

[QUOTE=NumberSix]Because they weren't born yet.


Keep it real. Roy Hibbert would absolutely dominate Bill Russell.[/QUOTE]
You could have at least chose someone who can score a basket. This is the weakest big men era of all time, including russells era. Wilt would throw Hibbert around like a rag doll and Russell would hold him to 1/8 shooting.

[QUOTE=NumberSix]Because they weren't born yet.


Keep it real. Roy Hibbert would absolutely dominate Bill Russell.[/QUOTE]


The way I see it, I'm not gonna say Russell couldn't be the same player he was back then in today's game. I mean if guys like Ben Wallace or Dennis Rodman can do it, why not Russell.

But there's no question most decent 'modern bigs' like Hibbert or Varajao could have the impact Russell had back then. The competition simply was not that great. There were 9 teams, and most of them had players who wouldn't even get a D-1 scholarship today.

[QUOTE=KyrieTheFuture]You could have at least chose someone who can score a basket. This is the weakest big men era of all time, including russells era. Wilt would throw Hibbert around like a rag doll and Russell would hold him to 1/8 shooting.[/QUOTE]


Nope, wrong.

The reason this era for big men is 'weak' is because of how the game has changed. Wing players have been given more freedom in attacking the basket, as well as launching threes, so the focus for centers is on defense. Paint scoring is typically done from the PF position now. If there were no threes everyone would still throw the ball into the post, but that's not the approach these days.

The players who come over to double a center are also longer and more athletic now. Kareem and Wilt didn't have to worry about guys like Josh Smith or Lebron coming over to help.

If you drop Andrew Bogut into 1968 he's dropping 30 every game if his team asks him to. And swatting midgets all day.


There are billions of people worldwide to pick basketball players from now. You really think they can't find ANYONE who could do the things the tall dudes in 1973 could do? They just prioritize different things now, and being tall doesn't equate to virtual automatic dominance like it used to.

It's just reality.

[QUOTE=Akrazotile]Nope, wrong.

The reason this era for big men is 'weak' is because of how the game has changed. Wing players have been given more freedom in attacking the basket, as well as launching threes, so the focus for centers is on defense. Paint scoring is typically done from the PF position now. If there were no threes everyone would still throw the ball into the post, but that's not the approach these days.

The players who come over to double a center are also longer and more athletic now. Kareem and Wilt didn't have to worry about guys like Josh Smith or Lebron coming over to help.

If you drop Andrew Bogut into 1968 he's dropping 30 every game if his team asks him to. And swatting midgets all day.


It's just reality.[/QUOTE]
I already know you're a troll so I won't bother explaining why you're wrong, there are several posters who can do it better than me anyway.