The more I watch Lebron the more I am starting to think he's better than MJ

[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]Cavs without LeBron: 3 top 10 picks, 26 game losing streak, fired GM, and two fired coaches :applause:[/QUOTE]

Cavs with Lebron: good eastern conference team, not as good as Orlando Magic

[QUOTE=97 bulls]Hold on. The HEAT before James arrived won 47 games. With James AND Bosh they only win 11 more??????? Along with an embarrassing loss to an underdog Mavericks team that had a key player injured in Coron Butler.

The 95 Bulls without Jordan were on pace to win 44-45 games. With Jordan AND Rodman in 96? And NBA record 72 wins. And an NBA title. Let's not get it twisted.

Hell A rusty Jordan Joined the Bulls in 95 and they ended up improving at a rate of 12 wins. That's better than a prime James and Bosh. In a much better conference.[/QUOTE]
......

Comparing them during the second round of the playoffs is premature. A comparison would make more sense after the season is done. However, for those who say Jordan is light years ahead of Lebron, let's look at this hypothetical, which assumes the Heat win another title this year:

[B][U]Jordan versus Lebron at 29 (hypothetical)[/U][/B]

Championships: Lebron 3, Jordan 3
Finals appearances: Lebron 5, Jordan 3
MVP's: Lebron 4, Jordan 3
All-NBA first teams: Jordan 7, Lebron 7

How can anyone say with a straight face that this is not, if Lebron keeps it up for a few more years, going to be a legitimate comparison?

Keep in mind Jordan accomplished nothing in the NBA during ages 30 and 31. Lebron conceivably could add 2 rings and 2 MVP's during that period. Longevity matters in basketball (it is one of the things that hurts Bird in all-time rankings) and Jordan deciding to take 1 3/4 years off in his prime will work to his detriment. It was a great story while it happened but losing 2 years of your prime on a quixotic whim is not a plus factor for your legacy. Jordan would have added another championship in 1994 and 1-2 MVP's during that period had he not retired--but he did and we cannot credit him from potential, even likely, accomplishments absent that bizarre decision. Has any other all-time great--in any sport--taken 2 years off for such an odd reason right in the middle of his prime (this excludes people like Ted Williams who spent part of their primes fighting in WW2)?


Regarding the 1994 Bulls, keep in mind the Bulls did not even replace Jordan with a legitimate NBA player. Since MJ retired 2 days before training camp the Bulls were stuck with a CBA (that era's D-League) player to replace him. Imagine that team if they were able to acquire a true NBA-caliber starting SG.

[QUOTE]but it's like this:

-3peat with jordan
-2nd round exit without[/QUOTE]

Yeah--and they also had a 2nd round exit in 95' with Jordan (they actually did slightly worse the following year, going down in 6 games versus 7 games). The big change in 1996 was adding the greatest rebounder of the generation to remedy the 95' Bulls biggest weakness.

The 2nd round exit in 94' was caused by what everyone, outside of Jordan stans, agrees was one of the worst phantom calls in playoff history. The Bulls should have made it to the Finals, at minimum, that year.

That second round exit was to the Knicks, who narrowly beat the Bulls for the best record. If Pippen and Grant did not miss time the Bulls would have had HCA in the ECSF and likely advanced. The Bulls were the #3 seed with 55 wins to the Knicks 57, but it was even closer than that as both teams were within 1 game entering the final game of the season. Since the Knicks held all the tiebreakers, both teams rested their starters. That the 94' Bulls could come that close to the top seed even with injuries to their best players speaks volumes about how good that team was.

youtube.com the artistry of lebron james

aw sh!t can't find anything.

wait, i found a video of him bulldozing to the basket, committing an offensive foul and getting a free throw with his "earned, not given" 'and 1'.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]Hold on. The HEAT before James arrived won 47 games. With James AND Bosh they only win 11 more??????? Along with an embarrassing loss to an underdog Mavericks team that had a key player injured in Coron Butler.

The 95 Bulls without Jordan were on pace to win 44-45 games. With Jordan AND Rodman in 96? And NBA record 72 wins. And an NBA title. Let's not get it twisted.

Hell A rusty Jordan Joined the Bulls in 95 and they ended up improving at a rate of 12 wins. That's better than a prime James and Bosh. In a much better conference.[/QUOTE]

did you really just compare a washed up wade to a top player in the league at the time in pippen and chris motha ****in bosh to dennis rodman?

[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]Cavs without LeBron: 3 top 10 picks, 26 game losing streak, fired GM, and two fired coaches :applause:[/QUOTE]
Lol. Its been almost twenty years since the Bulls won their last championship and Jordans retirement. The Bulls have one ecf appearance. TWO GMs working together, and a plethora of coaches. Two number 1 draft picks etc.

And get this...... the Bulls Organization broke up Jordans Bulls. They wanted to part ways.

[QUOTE=Solefade]did you really just compare a washed up wade to a top player in the league at the time in pippen and chris motha ****in bosh to dennis rodman?[/QUOTE]
Wade was washed up in 2010 and 11?

[COLOR="Magenta"]Jordan got 1 million fts a game [/COLOR][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/godQHKt.png[/IMG]

Finally, someone sees the truth.












































































































































































































































































































[IMG]http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/lebron-james-dancing-o.gif[/IMG]


LBJ's dancing>>>>>ghetto gypsy voodoo Moonwalk dance.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]Wade was washed up in 2010 and 11?[/QUOTE]

wade's last healthy year was 2011 and they didn't win because wade wasn't good enough to carry them over the hump and because lebron choked, but the point is bron's been winning with minimal help in 2012 and 2013

[QUOTE=97 bulls]Wade was washed up in 2010 and 11?[/QUOTE]

...and as great as rodman was, he was already [B]35[/B] when they won 72 games. still a great player but certainly not an all-star like bosh.

[QUOTE=Marlo_Stanfield]everyone has a weak series like mj vs orlando:roll: :roll: :roll:
Lehumble wanted to give Wade the alpha role because Wade was so good in the finals and they gameplanned to stop lebron.
LeHumble:bowdown: :bowdown:[/QUOTE]
Every player has had a bad series or two but holy fvck, LeBron's 2011 Finals was on a whole 'nother level of bad.

Don't get mad just because MJ set the standard so impossibly high that you nikkas feel the need to try and tear it down:no:

[QUOTE=aboss4real24][COLOR="Magenta"]Jordan got 1 million fts a game [/COLOR][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/godQHKt.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]

:coleman:

Jordan: 8.2 FTA for his career on 23 FGA (.358 FTr)
Bron: 8.6 FTA for his career on 20 FGA (.430 FTr)

And someone please- find me one Jordan series/moment as choketacular and embarrassing as Bron in the 2011 finals. Thank you kindly.

[QUOTE]Comparing them during the second round of the playoffs is premature. A comparison would make more sense after the season is done. However, for those who say Jordan is light years ahead of Lebron, let's look at this hypothetical, which assumes the Heat win another title this year:

Jordan versus Lebron at 29 (hypothetical)

Championships: Lebron 3, Jordan 3
Finals appearances: Lebron 5, Jordan 3
MVP's: Lebron 4, Jordan 3
All-NBA first teams: Jordan 7, Lebron 7[/QUOTE]

People were applying similar logic to Kobe Bryant. He had three championships by the time he was 22.

I agree we need to allow James career to play out. But it's foolish to attempt to make the claim that James has more impact than Jordan.

[QUOTE=Solefade]wade's last healthy year was 2011 and they didn't win because wade wasn't good enough to carry them over the hump and because lebron choked, but the point is bron's been winning with minimal help in 2012 and 2013[/QUOTE]

bosh, battier, allen and birdman would start on most teams.

[QUOTE=Solefade]wade's last healthy year was 2011 and they didn't win because wade wasn't good enough to carry them over the hump and because lebron choked, but the point is bron's been winning with minimal help in 2012 and 2013[/QUOTE]
Then why make the feeble attempt to compare James impact to Jordan? Cuz that's what you've been doing.

MJ = The GOAT. LBJ = 2nd GOAT

[QUOTE=Solefade]wade's last healthy year was 2011 and they didn't win because wade wasn't good enough to carry them over the hump and because lebron choked, but the point is bron's been winning with minimal help in 2012 and 2013[/QUOTE]

Wade provided better help in the 2012 and 2013 finals than Lebron did in 2011. Wade had a good, not spectacular, 2011 finals. If Lebron had even played to 1/4 of his ability, Heat win that series.

[QUOTE=Mr. Jabbar][IMG]http://oem.readyphiladelphia.org/Customized/uploads/Photos/AAmanBlindCane2.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

:applause:

:biggums: @ OP.

It's hard for me to really compare the two since they are so different. You would probably make better comparisons between Bron and Magic...although Bron is a more scoring focused. If you REALLY want to make a comparison, gogo Bron and Elgin Baylor. Very similar games and similar careers (up till recently). Either way, Bron is definitely a top10 player ever and will most likely end in top5 or higher.

lebron has higher impact individually but jordan can fit with other players. Jordan makes the whole greater than the sum of its parts. Its the reason why lebron only has +/-2.8 when paired with stars while kobe has a +10 in the playoffs. Its the reason why robertson was a cancer despite the assists while jordan won 72, 69 despite averaging less assists in his career.

[QUOTE=97 bulls]Then why make the feeble attempt to compare James impact to Jordan? Cuz that's what you've been doing.[/QUOTE]


i wasn't comparing the impact of james to jordan, i was just addressing you comparing bosh to dennis rodman a 16rbpg player to chris bosh..jordan and pippen would slap you if they heard that

[QUOTE=Mr. Jabbar][IMG]http://oem.readyphiladelphia.org/Customized/uploads/Photos/AAmanBlindCane2.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

that's a good pic for threads cuz you have to scroll down until you see he's blind. Or I did.


LeBron isn't even that good. lol I keep sayin' it and people are like WAT. I mean he's good, but he's just not on that all-time greatest level. He's gonna have a resume, but in terms of actual talent, I dunno how people can say Bron is the GOAT. Some sad shit.


-Smak

[QUOTE=97 bulls]People were applying similar logic to Kobe Bryant. He had three championships by the time he was 22.[/QUOTE]

True. You simply cannot pencil in championships and MVP's for any player. Luck and injuries are factors in achieving accolades. While it is true Lebron is close to Jordan thus far (also, Lebron has 6 ECF's if he gets there this year to MJ's 5 and Lebron would have had the best record in the NBA 3 times while MJ would have it only 1 time). Moreover, Jordan did in fact win championships at ages 32, 33, 34 while adding 2 more championships and 3 all-NBA first teams. There is no guarantee Lebron will have that kind of success when he is 32-34. What we know is, barring injury, Lebron will add to his legacy over the next two seasons when he will be 30-31 years old while MJ did nothing to aid his cause during the same period in his career.

The thing that has always struck me about Lebron is you could put him with scrubs and he would make them contenders. Jordan was not able to do that. Jordan was scoring 37 points a game--while going 40-42. Lebron reached the Finals at 22 and his teams have been contenders every year since then (perhaps not 2008, but even then the Cavs took the peak KG-Pierce-Allen Celtics to 7 games in the ECSF).

[QUOTE]lebron has higher impact individually but jordan can fit with other players. Jordan makes the whole greater than the sum of its parts. [/QUOTE]

What evidence is there of that? Lebron has succeeded with a wide variety of players. Jordan basically had two cores when he succeeded. Moreover, Jordan retired and about half the team had a career year in 94' and the players who were on both the 1993 and 1994 teams shot better in 94' than they did in 93'. What happened to Cavalier players when Lebron left?

Lebron is another level.

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]

The thing that has always struck me about Lebron is you could put him with scrubs and he would make them contenders. Jordan was not able to do that. Jordan was scoring 37 points a game--while going 40-42. Lebron reached the Finals at 22 and his teams have been contenders every year since then (perhaps not 2008, but even then the Cavs took the peak KG-Pierce-Allen Celtics to 7 games in the ECSF).



What evidence is there of that? Lebron has succeeded with a wide variety of players. Jordan basically had two cores when he succeeded. Moreover, Jordan retired and about half the team had a career year in 94'. What happened to Cavalier players when Lebron left?[/QUOTE]




This is why people's view on Lebron annoys me. Some of you literally ignore reality at time and create a scenario for Lebron James.



Lebron alone did not leave the Cavs. Let's get that straight. When he left they were damn near almost a different team. They lost MULITPLE players. SO anything we discuss regarding how good/bad they would have been without JUST Lebron is speculation.



Secondly, when we compare Lebron + "scrubs" and Jordan + "scrubs" you have to factor in competition at that time around them and who were their actual team mates as well.


It isn't just cut and dry as "well Lebron could take scrubs and make them contenders and Jordan couldn't". That's not how the argument works at all.



Throw Lebron on this years Sixers or Bucks. They are not contenders.

[QUOTE=Solefade]i wasn't comparing the impact of james to jordan, i was just addressing you comparing bosh to dennis rodman a 16rbpg player to chris bosh..jordan and pippen would slap you if they heard that[/QUOTE]
I feel Rodman is a more impactful player than Bosh. But Bosh is a great player

My point is, why are you and yoir brethren circling your argument on impact around what the Cavs did when James left as opposed to what the Bulls did when Jordan left? When the fact is the situations were totally different. And then overlook what happened when James joined the Heat and their win/loss difference and when Jordan returned to the Bulls and their win/loss results.

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]True. You simply cannot pencil in championships and MVP's for any player. Luck and injuries are factors in achieving accolades. While it is true Lebron is close to Jordan thus far (also, Lebron has 6 ECF's if he gets there this year to MJ's 5 and Lebron would have had the best record in the NBA 3 times while MJ would have it only 1 time). Moreover, Jordan did in fact win championships at ages 32, 33, 34 while adding 2 more championships and 3 all-NBA first teams. There is no guarantee Lebron will have that kind of success when he is 32-34. What we know is, barring injury, Lebron will add to his legacy over the next two seasons when he will be 30-31 years old while MJ did nothing to aid his cause during the same period in his career.

The thing that has always struck me about Lebron is you could put him with scrubs and he would make them contenders. Jordan was not able to do that. Jordan was scoring 37 points a game--while going 40-42. Lebron reached the Finals at 22 and his teams have been contenders every year since then (perhaps not 2008, but even then the Cavs took the peak KG-Pierce-Allen Celtics to 7 games in the ECSF).



What evidence is there of that? Lebron has succeeded with a wide variety of players. Jordan basically had two cores when he succeeded. Moreover, Jordan retired and about half the team had a career year in 94' and the players who were on both the 1993 and 1994 teams shot better in 94' than they did in 93'. What happened to Cavalier players when Lebron left?[/QUOTE]

Because of lebrons +/- 2.8 in the playoffs when paired with stars. because robertson, iverson were considered cancers despite their stats. surround jordan with talent and his team will be more dominant than bron with same talent. Even those bulls which has less talent would destroy this heat team. Jordan requires less to win while bron was a ray allen away from being a failure.

And we have no idea how good that cavs team because they were given assurance of the no. 1 pick

[QUOTE]surround jordan with talent and his team will be more dominant than bron with same talent.[/QUOTE]

I think that is true. Other than last year, none of Lebron's teams have been dominant. Still, I think it also is equally true that Lebron with average or poor talent would fare better than Jordan in the same situation. Can anyone envision prime Lebron going 40-42? One problem with Jordan was he would tend to bail on his teammates and become a one man show. It is not a coincidence the Bulls started winning when a pass-first player became the primary ball-handler, a player who made sure to keep everyone involved and would not cut people off for the rest of the game for dropping a pass or missing a shot.

[QUOTE]Secondly, when we compare Lebron + "scrubs" and Jordan + "scrubs" you have to factor in competition at that time around them and who were their actual team mates as well. [/QUOTE]

That is a fair point. In terms of team strength there was more competition in the 80's, at least at the top (remember, the Bulls made the playoffs as a 30 win team in one season :oldlol: ). However, there was no international presence in the league at the time. In the modern NBA you have to compete with the best players in the world, not just the best American players. The talent pool is deeper now than ever before since it is drawing from a global pool. It is interesting to see the 2011 Finals invoked here but that would not have happened in the 80's because Dirk would have been playing in some unknown European league, not in the NBA. (Yeah, there were a handful of international players like Hakeem and Petrovic but now something like 20-25% of the league is from overseas)

[QUOTE]Throw Lebron on this years Sixers or Bucks. They are not contenders.[/QUOTE]

I think they are. They wouldn't be favorites but Lebron would have them competitive. Who did he have while in Cleveland? Yet he was able to have the best record twice with them and reach the Finals another time.

[QUOTE=oh the horror]



Throw Lebron on this years Sixers or Bucks. They are not contenders.[/QUOTE]


lol lebron makes any team a contender tbh being favorites to win is a different conversation.

[QUOTE=Solefade]lol lebron makes any team a contender tbh being favorites to win is a different conversation.[/QUOTE]


You're goin to sit there and tell me, a team like the bucks that won 15 games this season would now become one among several contenders to win a championship with the addition of Lebron?



Think about that dude. They won 15 games this season.

[QUOTE]I think they are. They wouldn't be favorites but Lebron would have them competitive. Who did he have while in Cleveland? Yet he was able to have the best record twice with them and reach the Finals another time.[/QUOTE]
But was that saying much considering how weak the conference was. 23 year old Dwight Howard also took his team to the Finals in that span. And his second best player was Jameer Nelson. A shorter stockier Mo Williams. Who missed litterally half the season. Whats the difference?

[QUOTE=oh the horror]You're goin to sit there and tell me, a team like the bucks that won 15 games this season would now become one among several contenders to win a championship with the addition of Lebron?



Think about that dude. They won 15 games this season.[/QUOTE]
why are you so salty torwards lebron?? do you just not like him or is it because he already surpassed kobe:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

Guys, I think Lebron is one of the best ever but some of you have crossed over into insanity.

[QUOTE=Marlo_Stanfield]why are you so salty torwards lebron?? do you just not like him or is it because he already surpassed kobe:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]


Bro, reload your responses. They're burning out the tape deck.

[QUOTE=oh the horror]Guys, I think Lebron is one of the best ever but some of you have crossed over into insanity.[/QUOTE]

Same for the other side of stans, unfortunately

[QUOTE=97 bulls]But was that saying much considering how weak the conference was. 23 year old Dwight Howard also took his team to the Finals in that span. And his second best player was Jameer Nelson. A shorter stockier Mo Williams. Who missed litterally half the season. Whats the difference?[/QUOTE]

The Magic had a much stronger roster around Howard. They had all-star caliber players in Turkoglu, Lewis, Nelson. Nelson was hurt during most of the playoffs but Turk was a 17/5/5 player and Lewis an 18 ppg scorer.

[QUOTE=oh the horror]You're goin to sit there and tell me, a team like the bucks that won 15 games this season would now become one among several contenders to win a championship with the addition of Lebron?



Think about that dude. They won 15 games this season.[/QUOTE]


sit down and think about the team lebron took to the playoffs in his early career


eric snow
larry hughes
donyell marshall
jamario moon??
young andy verajao?

at least bucks got legitimate rim defenders and giannis

[QUOTE=Solefade]sit down and think about the team lebron took to the playoffs in his early career


eric snow
larry hughes
donyell marshall
jamario moon??
young andy verajao?

at least bucks got legitimate rim defenders and giannis[/QUOTE]

who was his competition???

gilbert arenas wizards????

:roll: :roll: :roll:

the east is better now than it was back then which is sad within itself.

[QUOTE=Derivative]I know that MJ is the GOAT, but the more I watch Lebron these days the more I think that he's a more dominant player than MJ.

Even more so when I watch Cavaliers Lebron videos, especially in 2009, he was godlike during those years.[/QUOTE]

How old are you?

This should be entertaining.