Re: For all you atheists: If there is NO God, how did the universe get here?
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855][COLOR="Magenta"]If you think "I dont know....lets keep looking into it" is a belief system as absurd as a magical sky father who always was and always will be being the origin of matter but having none himself....fine[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Father?
Magical?
Very Blasphemous. Not entirely your fault though, anthromorphizing God (God Forbid) is something humans have repeatedly done and continue to do.
Surah 112:4 [U][B][COLOR="Green"]
Nor is there to Him any equivalent.[/COLOR][/B][/U]
[url]http://www.islamicstudies.info/tafheem.php?sura=112[/url]
[QUOTE]I dont expent an answer in my lifetime. Or my childrens. Or their great great great great grand childrens. It took thousands of years for humans to create flying machines. I should expect the origin of matter to be worked out quickly?[/QUOTE]
It takes a lot of concentrated effort over a long period of time to add knowledge to astronomy, K. And even then that's a chance.
A sounder perspective for you would be to ask instead: [B]What is my next step in this life[/B]?
[QUOTE]
[COLOR="Green"]And be not like those who forgot Allah , so He made [U][B]them forget themselves.[/B][/U] Those are the defiantly disobedient.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
[I]In truth I doubt we ever know. Too many things could destroy the world/make it uninhabitable before we get there.[/I][/QUOTE]
[COLOR="Green"][U][B]And your Lord has decreed that you not worship except Him, and to parents, good treatment. Whether one or both of them reach old age [while] with you, say not to them [so much as], "uff," and do not repel them but speak to them a noble word.[/B][/U][/COLOR]
Nice, you're aware of destruction. Now[U][B] be the change you wish in this world. [/B][/U] Start with preservation and salvation.
But not knowing is no reason to accept that the universe came to be when a bear shit in the woods...which makes about as much sense to me as Odin/zeus/god/whatever skyfather figure y[B]our grandparents believing in made you believe....just poofing everything into being.[/B]
[QUOTE][U][COLOR="Green"]
But there are, among men, those who purchase [B]idle tales,[/B] without knowledge (or meaning), to mislead (men) from the Path of Allah and throw ridicule (on the Path): for such there will be a Humiliating Penalty.[/COLOR][/U][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][U][B][COLOR="Green"]There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.[/COLOR][/B][/U][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Hell Zeus [B]makes more sense.[/B] At least they had foresight enough to give him a backstory and parents so his followers didnt have to go with "He came from nowhere...dont ask questions". Granted....I belive there is no origin story for Zeus'...grandfather...but I dont expect there to be a logical explanation to any skyfather story.[/QUOTE]
No it doesn't. Greek Mythology can not even remotely compare to any Divinely Revealed Scripture Grandparents likely said, don't ask questions because
a) They have, through their lengthy lives contemplated the EXACT same questions and have achieved some level of wisdom much, much, much higher than their cocky, but curious young kblaze.
b) There is likely a better way to spend time (heck, right now I should be saying the same exact thing to myself)......
[QUOTE][U][B][COLOR="Green"]
Do you order righteousness of the people and forget yourselves while you recite the Scripture? Then will you not reason?[/COLOR][/B][/U][/QUOTE]
[COLOR="Red"][B]Exercise 1 for all of ISH:
Take note of precisely what you criticize everyone for
Re-read it at the end of the night.
Ask yourself is the person I'm accusing the only one guilty of it?
Reflect on your own weaknesses
Ask Allah for forgiveness, be determined to rectify that behavior, rectify others rights
Review any Signs you saw.
[/B][/COLOR]
Do you think there's any kind of coincidence as to why you meet the particular individuals you do? There's always a common thread that binds all creatures in a setting, you simply aren't cognizant of it.
[COLOR="Pink"]Its all nonsense.[/COLOR]
"It's all nonsense" is a far more apt description of your worldview, Kblaze.
Not the Bible. But having a chaotic worldview of things isn't natural.. it came from error. It takes years of shoving crap down people's throats through ISH to do that and then receiving that crap back. I would know, I'm also guilty of that sin.
[U][B][COLOR="Green"]
New International Version
Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. [B]A man reaps what he sows[/B].[/COLOR][/B][/U]
[QUOTE]Every explanation is nonsense...till we figure it out rationally. And as I said...I dont expect to be around for that.[/QUOTE]
[U][B][COLOR="Green"]
We will show them Our signs in the[B] horizons and within themselves[/B] until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth. But is it not sufficient concerning your Lord that He is, over all things, a Witness?[/COLOR][/B][/U]
You can be around long enough to make a conscious decision to take your duties seriously to the Lord who created, nourishes, maintains, orders, and reigns over the entire Universe including each and every human being.
[U][B][I][COLOR="Green"]Al-hamdu lillahi rabbil 'alamin[/COLOR][/I][/B][/U]
And whoever Allah Guides none can lead astray, and whoever Allah leads astray none can guide.
If there is any Truth in this post it comes from Allah, if there is any evil or falsehood it comes from J$.
Assalamu Alaikum.
Re: For all you atheists: If there is NO God, how did the universe get here?
[QUOTE=JEFFERSON MONEY]
Fairy Tale? Right, so the millions of believers are simply living in la-la land whereas the way you've led your life thus far, K, puts you at a sounder level of understanding of reality.
[/QUOTE]
Huh? Well...yeah? It's not like that's not impossible. In fact this did happen and it's happening now. How many religions are there? How many different gods? How many ppl believe in them and became pagans as Christianity and Islam got more popular?
Like you still got Scientology. Some ppl are following this guy claiming he is Jesus and he is the second coming in Flordia. You got neo paganism.
You got other religions like Cao Dai. You still got Zoroastrianism. Shikhs.
You still have African traditions and religions like Nilotic and Bantu that combine their traditions with either Islam or Christianity. Same thing with some Native American religions. Some even have multiple gods.
Then you have Christianity among it's different sects, Islam and it's different sects, and Judaism.
All of them conflict with each other. One of them or all of them are wrong. With the protestant religion, it only came to life with Martin Luther. He cut off several books of the catholic bible and was going to take out Revelation, but decided against it. In Ethiopia, they have the book of Enoch in their bible and contain different wording I think.
Some ppl used to believe, or still believe that the the foreskin of an holy person is made of gold and crystal or something? And if you are true believer, you gain some sort of immunity to poison. And not to mention all of the end of the world crap. Started in the 1st century till now. The first century because Jesus said that the generation will not die until things he said will come to pass like him returning to his kingdom, rumors of war, and all that end of the world stuff. I think....mormons believe there is a person out there who isn't dead yet from 1st century?
And the things that they used to do back in the day. Like ppl were sooo sure that the world was going to end a few times. Like in 1000 AD, Christians waged war on many countries in Europe to save their souls. Their goal was to convert them all into Christian by force. And Christians gave up their posessions to the Church because they thought the end of the world was coming. When Jesus didn't come, they church didn't return their possessions. Anyone who criticize the church was deemed as heretics and got killed.
This happens like every freakin' decade. Millions of ppl believe and want the second coming. So, they do stupid shit. And then when it doesn't happen, they are like wtf. Like a couple of years ago, ppl thought the world was going to end and gave up their possessions again and went to mountains. These are examples of ppl living in la la land with their beliefs.
So, back to the point...yeah. Ppl believe in shit that's not real. You could've/should've said billions of ppl believe in a superpower or a being that we call god. That would've had a little bit more merit, but that still doesn't make it true. Bottom line is that we don't know.
Re: For all you atheists: If there is NO God, how did the universe get here?
[QUOTE=JEFFERSON MONEY]
You can be around long enough to make a conscious decision to take your duties seriously to the Lord who created, nourishes, maintains, orders, and reigns over the entire Universe including each and every human being.
[/QUOTE]
Eh. I mean, does he maintain the odor of Sulphur? That's pretty nasty.
Throughout of what we can see, there is no god in the maintenance of the Universe. The four fundamental forces are gravity, electromagnetism, strong and weak nuclear force. Each dynamic is considered to be field. We have the higgs boson which gives particles mass.
There is no god in that. At least so far. In the past, we always hit a wall and say maybe god is there or god has something to do with that. Ptolemy did that, but more with Zeus when he couldn't figure out why the planets move. It was the work of the gods.
Newton did the same thing. Before him, the motion of planets were given to god maintenance. But after Newton basically invented calculus, laws of motions, gravity, two body problem there wasn't a god involved in that. But he couldn't figure out how the solar system stayed that way. So, he said god did it.
God is our answer to our ignorance. Whatever it's true or not, that's what it is. And as history tells us, and time and time again this has proven, god is no where to be seen to maintain our universe. At least not yet. While no one is stopping you to invoke god to that stuff, I would ask you why would you do it if we honestly don't know? Should god just be answer to our own ignorance of the universe or should we stay inquisitive on the wonders of the universe and find out more that could help us survive? The more we find out, the less we know and the more god does not seem to be active in the parts that we thought.
But not to say there is no god, but I don't think a god is maintaining the fragrance of chemical compounds. Or the protons that of elements. Why positive charged go from high to low potential? Maybe dark matter tho since it doesn't interact with the electromagnetic spectrum yet has the gravity that holds shit together. But saying god or whatever, I would be guilty of doing the same thing as ppl did in the past. Just putting in god due to ignorance.
And the universe is a big place (understatement). How many galaxies there are? How many solar systems? How many stars? Did god create all of those stars? So, like god created gravity. To do so, you have to create matter with mass. To get the mass, you have to go through the higgs boson. Then with gravity, you can gather the hydrogen element together into a tight space. Once you are in a condensed space, it'll get hot. All you need is time...Oh! What about time? God can't exist without time because god will just be nothing. Time is a measurement of change. So, if god doesn't change, he is nothing. Unless god is time! Dun dun dun!
And most of all, why the f@#k bedbugs exists? And mosquitoes? Screw them. Blood sucking bastards.
Re: For all you atheists: If there is NO God, how did the universe get here?
[QUOTE=Micku]Eh. I mean, does he maintain the odor of Sulphur? That's pretty nasty.
Throughout of what we can see, there is no god in the maintenance of the Universe. The four fundamental forces are gravity, electromagnetism, strong and weak nuclear force. Each dynamic is considered to be field. We have the higgs boson which gives particles mass.
There is no god in that. At least so far. In the past, we always hit a wall and say maybe god is there or god has something to do with that. Ptolemy did that, but more with Zeus when he couldn't figure out why the planets move. It was the work of the gods.
Newton did the same thing. Before him, the motion of planets were given to god maintenance. But after Newton basically invented calculus, laws of motions, gravity, two body problem there wasn't a god involved in that. But he couldn't figure out how the solar system stayed that way. So, he said god did it.
God is our answer to our ignorance. Whatever it's true or not, that's what it is. And as history tells us, and time and time again this has proven, god is no where to be seen to maintain our universe. At least not yet. While no one is stopping you to invoke god to that stuff, I would ask you why would you do it if we honestly don't know? Should god just be answer to our own ignorance of the universe or should we stay inquisitive on the wonders of the universe and find out more that could help us survive? The more we find out, the less we know and the more god does not seem to be active in the parts that we thought.
But not to say there is no god, but I don't think a god is maintaining the fragrance of chemical compounds. Or the protons that of elements. Why positive charged go from high to low potential? Maybe dark matter tho since it doesn't interact with the electromagnetic spectrum yet has the gravity that holds shit together. But saying god or whatever, I would be guilty of doing the same thing as ppl did in the past. Just putting in god due to ignorance.
And the universe is a big place (understatement). How many galaxies there are? How many solar systems? How many stars? Did god create all of those stars? So, like god created gravity. To do so, you have to create matter with mass. To get the mass, you have to go through the higgs boson. Then with gravity, you can gather the hydrogen element together into a tight space. Once you are in a condensed space, it'll get hot. All you need is time...Oh! What about time? God can't exist without time because god will just be nothing. Time is a measurement of change. So, if god doesn't change, he is nothing. Unless god is time! Dun dun dun!
And most of all, why the f@#k bedbugs exists? And mosquitoes? Screw them. Blood sucking bastards.[/QUOTE]
Do everyone a favor and just stop it. Thank you.
Re: For all you atheists: If there is NO God, how did the universe get here?
[QUOTE=TommyGriffin]Do everyone a favor and just stop it. Thank you.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://www.mememaker.net/static/images/memes/4478580.jpg[/IMG]
Re: For all you atheists: If there is NO God, how did the universe get here?
[QUOTE=JEFFERSON MONEY]
It doesn't matter if a toddler or John Nash answered if 2 + 2 = 4.
Likewise, it's understood that it all began with God; from the truthful account of billions of people; be they Hindu, Christian, Jew, Muslim, Sabian, of differing intellectual levels; be they child or fully fledged old scholars.
[/QUOTE]
It's interesting that you mentioned that. With all the different religions out there, they all have their own subjective experience due to what religion they are. But they all contradict each other, thus a couple or all of them are wrong. Such as Christian believe Jesus is the messiah and god (some Christians don't believe he is god), Muslims don't believe in that, Jews don't believe in that, Hindus would say yeah but he is one of many that makes up one god in the end.
Yet mathematics is universal. Mathematics is a language for us to compute and translate objects of our universe. You can change in how you say 1, but it'll still be 1. It's different from actually speaking a language such as english in which no words would have meaning in other languages.
You can say it all begin with god yet the many religions that rise and fell. All of them were man created, but I guess you'll never know for sure. If those gods were invented by man, why not the major religions of today which all came later into our history? All of them have some questionable scriptures that may or may not happen. All of them claim events happen. Like Muhammad spiting the moon (much debate on this) and Jesus walking on water.
We don't talk about Vespasian doing some supernatural crap even though he has witness I think. Caesar Augustus called himself the son of god and I think it was written on coins. I think he is credited for one event that ppl thought he was divine being or something. Alexander the Great called himself the son of Zeus and a bunch of supernatural stuff happen at his birth.
And then you have the Buddhist miracle I think in Korea with Ichadon. Ichadon said that once he gets executed something crazy would happen that will convince ppl of Buddhism. And once he did get executed, the earth shook, the sun darkened, flowers rained from the sky, and his head flew to the Geumgang mountains. W..t..f? But that's how Korea believed in Buddhism.
And Sathya Sai Baba recently. Thousands of ppl saw his miracles in action. It is said that he performed levitation, made physical object disppear, make them appear on demand, healing diseases, multiplying food, and changing water into gasoline and many more. He claimed to be the reincarnation of Sai Baba of Shirdi. This is in conflict with a few of religions belief system. Sathya Sai Baba also had false predictions too tho. He said he was going to remain healthy until 96. He died when he was 84. And believers would say he probably meant to "lunar years" counted by telugu hindus than our solar years.
Since it conflicts with some religions, they would have to be BS. But what if the major religions are BS? What if it's all BS?
This is all subjective in every form. But y'know what that is staying consistent? Math. I don't think it begun with god because the universe don't really care about numbers. There is no real such thing as a physical number, but it's a translation for us to understand amount of a quantity in something. But I suppose it depends upon if god exist or not and whatever he is being that knows how to solve the Beal conjecture.
Re: For all you atheists: If there is NO God, how did the universe get here?
[QUOTE=Micku]
[B]All of them conflict with each other.[/B]
[B] Ppl believe in shit that's not rea[/B]l. [/QUOTE]
No. Not all of them conflict with each other.
Just because it is not visible or measurable does not mean it isn't real.
Re: For all you atheists: If there is NO God, how did the universe get here?
Micku.
Thank you for speaking of those miracles and addressing Mathematics.
A day prior to reading this post, my How To Think Like A Mathematician and How to Prove It book came in. Coincidence? :D
What the Sathya Baba did and what was witnessed is not in conflict with religions. Prophets and Saints can do miracles, but it is actually Allah performing it through them.
Jews and Muslims believe that God is One. A portion of Christians do. Hindus also believe in a Supreme Deity (although they have avatars) This is evidenced by the fact that the entire Universe is calibrated in a way that can only be done without conflicting wills. Something as fragile as a human being, who is dependent upon such restrictive parameters; ranging from temperature, to oxygen level, to blood pH, is upon Earth, has been created, nourished, and endured decades of existence many tens of billions of times over. That all living things share something in common, but are unique. And hundreds of others.
In regards to subjectivity.
A building can't even be built without some objectivity, let alone a civilization. Yet there were plenty before us.
BS would be a misplaced brick, no?
People aren't even going to stop fighting each other without some universal moral establishment.
People can't even acquire peace if they live a lie, their very conscience would reject things. Yet millions before us have had peace.
People can't even continue the acquisition of knowledge without some consensus.
Re: For all you atheists: If there is NO God, how did the universe get here?
[QUOTE=JEFFERSON MONEY]No. Not all of them conflict with each other.
Just because it is not visible or measurable does not mean it isn't real.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for your reply!
You're right that not all religions do conflict with each other. I was generalizing so that was my mistake.
And you are right that just because something isn't visible or measurable by current technology and understanding of our universe. We don't know that much about dark matter and why it doesn't interact with electromagnetic spectrum, but it's probably there due to gravity.
With God, we have no idea. No indication that reflects this. Maybe if you talk about cosmology in how did we get here, but even then we don't know. It's just guest work.
And we know some shit isn't real like Apollo. There is no charlot that move the Sun across the sky. There is some Native American religion that some dude had sex with his dog after a major flood, and they breed a god or new race or something? And don't forget about the Norse gods. Sacrifices used to made for Aegir so he wouldn't shallow up ships in the ocean. He was god of the sea, and his wife too (forgot her name). Freyr was the god of rainbows, rains and fruit or something. They all make their gods responsible for phenomenon that they did not understand.
It is really telling that in every civilization around the world has a different religion that explains something that we are ignorant about. Some if not all of those religions seem to be made up by man. What makes a particular religion more right than all the other "false" religion? It can't be just experience because many ppl do have "experiences" of their religions.
It's like Slenderman. The creator said it's fake. We know it's fake. But you still find kids/ppl who believe in it anyway. Same thing with gray aliens. Y'know where gray aliens came from? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it started with a novel called Man on the Moon. It talks about gray men of the moon. This was later adapted into World of the Wars I think, where they had little gray men with some other alien species. That idea was later adapted to little gray men with big heads in other fiction tales and movies. After this a spike went up on the aliens that fit the description that was a fictional tales of those novels.
And this relates to religion as well. How many of them are fictional? Just an answer to our ignorance of the universe?
[quote]
Micku.
Thank you for speaking of those miracles and addressing Mathematics.
A day prior to reading this post, my How To Think Like A Mathematician and How to Prove It book came in. Coincidence?
What the Sathya Baba did and what was witnessed is not in conflict with religions. Prophets and Saints can do miracles, but it is actually Allah performing it through them.
Jews and Muslims believe that God is One. A portion of Christians do. Hindus also believe in a Supreme Deity (although they have avatars) This is evidenced by the fact that the entire Universe is calibrated in a way that can only be done without conflicting wills. Something as fragile as a human being, who is dependent upon such restrictive parameters; ranging from temperature, to oxygen level, to blood pH, is upon Earth, has been created, nourished, and endured decades of existence many tens of billions of times over. That all living things share something in common, but are unique. And hundreds of others.
In regards to subjectivity.
A building can't even be built without some objectivity, let alone a civilization. Yet there were plenty before us.
BS would be a misplaced brick, no?
People aren't even going to stop fighting each other without some universal moral establishment.
People can't even acquire peace if they live a lie, their very conscience would reject things. Yet millions before us have had peace.
People can't even continue the acquisition of knowledge without some consensus.
[/quote]
This is where we disagree I think. What Sathya Baba did would be in conflict with Islam from my understanding. The Qur'an said there would be no prophets after him. And what Sathya Baba said was the he was a reincarnation of Sai Baba of Shirdi. This may conflict with Jews and Muslims of what happens in the afterlife. The Jews think all dead ppl go to the same place maybe and there could be stages in heaven? I heard different things tho. Muslims believes that they all stay in purgatory until judgement day, and then they will be split with heaven and hell.
It also conflicts with Christianity a bit, since you are supposed to live eternity in heaven or hell after you die, and since Jesus died for our sins, the gate is pretty much open. Both Muslims and Christians believe that the dead will rise in judgement day too (zombies!!!). With Christians, it kind'a already happen if you read Matthew. But some scholars think that's probably isn't true. I think no one, Mark, Luke, John or even Peter mention the dead rising. No Jews. No early Christians. No Romans. Nothing. And the jews wrote about everything that happen in the temple veil too. Like when the wind opens up the door.
Of course, you could say that all of the little details don't matter since there is only one god. But the very concept of being a god is subjective and is in the scriptures. But if some of the scriptures are wrong, that opens the door for other things that could be wrong.
And us having life or the universe existing may not be good example of anything spiritual necessary. Since before we didn't know how particles gather mass, and now we do, the universe is expanding, or the physical order of our universe. The universe could be just is and we don't know if there is any other universes out there. There could be as many universes as they are galaxies as far as we know. And we don't even know what we are expanding into. While I wouldn't toss out of the existence of there being a god or a being that created the universe, there is nothing to suggest it yet.
Re: For all you atheists: If there is NO God, how did the universe get here?
Like even concepts of heaven and hell seem a bit weird from what we know. And Christianity beliefs too.
Like how can you feel pain without brain (suffering in hell)? Like the whole concept of pain is to protect you. This is done by sending electric signals to your brain and it responds back. This is all part of the central nervous system, which we can manipulate. Paul said that flesh and mind (or something like that) disappear after you die. The soul isn't that. So, how do you feel pain without signals?
And fire in hell? This implies that there is oxygen in hell. For fire to even exist, there must be a combustible substance present. This also implies that something (souls maybe) have carbon, hydrogen and oxygen. Thus it is something physical. Thus it has have a low amount of temperature to be something solid (again, physical). Chemical process of burning will convert these chemical to gas. And the whole concept of fire electrons moving super fast, which also physical as well. And the fact it has color shows that it is in the electromagnetic spectrum. So, would fire be this in hell? If so, it may contradict of being the whole flesh deal. It all implies matter and mass, which is all physical nature. And fire isn't even that hot compared converting something into plasma, which is another state of matter.
You can respond by saying it could be dark matter. However dark matter doesn't respond to electromagnetism. So, what would a soul do that? And does a soul give out gravity? If it does, it has some mass. Is there a separate higgs boson for a soul? Is there a separate higgs boson for even the concept of spiritual things in general?
And what makes our conciseness really that important in comparison to animals who has brain matter? To us, yeah. But to the universe or potential gods? If other animals don't have an afterlife (which some religions debate), why should we? Dolphins have some sort of self awareness yet they may not go to dolphin heaven or hell.
And conciseness is really in our brain to begin with as evidence from personal changes from drugs, accidents, and etc. Our personality changes when there is a chemical change. What we consider to be soul based upon good/bad deeds is just blocking blocks of chemicals from the periodic table. Thus you can change it. If everything that matter to us in terms of who we are (self awareness and crap), that is only physical matter in our brain. What happens if you take the brain away? That is you afterall. What happens if we potentially keep your head alive and disregard the body, except for the heart, like this dog experiment:
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSggSPjUYRw#t=04m54s[/url]
I think this dog came back to life after being dead and kept alive without the body. So...when exactly are you considered to be "dead" and your soul goes to this spiritual plane of existence? If it is when your organs get eaten away by maggots, then....aren't you just part of maggots then? I mean...that is your body. They are eating the organs that you used to think with. And if we could bring an organism back to life via head and blood, then how is there a soul or even an afterlife? And which afterlife? There are a lot of near death experiences report from across religions. Native Americans reported their afterlife near death experiences. Hindus and Christians. Some reported nothing. Saying they saw nothing and felt nothing. This was enough to belief atheism and vice versa with other religions.
This is a subjective experience that all resolves around your brain activity it seems. How can religion be right, when so many ppl have personal experiences due to their religion and other religions conflict with them?
Bottomline, why would even say there is a god from so many inconsistencies and lack of convincing evidence? The fact that there are so many religions and ppl believing so strongly and having experiences with them should conflict that the "one and right" religion in our world. Hindus are cool tho since they accept a bunch of things.
The every concept of god and afterlife is unknown and it varies in different parts of the world. And since a lot of religions are made up, this opens up the discussion that all religions are made up. So, how can you really know? Is it better to say that we don't know, which is probably the most honest answer humanity can give than say there is a god? You can say that you believe or think there is, and try to give out evidence for it or personal experiences, but as I said...there are subjective across cultures.
