MJ's 1988 DPOY is now being "Questioned". HOME vs ROAD Steals has twice as much Gap

[video=youtube;_MtxZ5_iCFA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MtxZ5_iCFA[/video]

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[B]1990 Hakeem

HOME'....... 233 blocks... 103 steals... 131 assists
ROAD........ 143 blocks..... 71 steals... 102 assists[/B]




[SIZE=3]What's more believable


[indent]A) record-keepers [I]league-wide[/I] were massively-cheating

B) Poor road records explain normal levels of home inflation in previous eras, while the massive inflation shown above with 90' Hakeem, 86' Robertson or 88' MJ were one-offs due to any number of reasons, such as personal issues affecting their home/road play[/indent]


I would go with option B because there's a mathematical explanation of poor road records that explains normal levels of home inflation in previous eras, while the one-offs of massive inflation are neither here nor there and could be due to any number of reasons - these one-offs occur today as well[/SIZE]

[video=youtube;Bq8qvQonhtE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq8qvQonhtE[/video]

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14924419][video=youtube;_MtxZ5_iCFA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MtxZ5_iCFA[/video][/QUOTE]

Somebody knocked some sense.

1987 MJ DPOY could be missing
1989 MJ DPOY could be missing

1987 MJ MVP is missing (it was that close voting wise, Had MJ been laker or celtics, this would've been a cakewalk over magic with 3000 200 100)
1989 MJ MVP is missing (again. MJ was the best player in the league by far. IF MJ pulls of 32.5-8-8-2.9 as Laker or Celtics, Easy season MVP)
1990 MJ MVP is missing (MJ actually finishes 3rd, lol. This was again, punishing NBA Bottom Feeding team's leadership)

1986-1990 MJ was the best Player in the NBA by far.

Only reason Magic won over MJ in 1987 and 1989 is because he was a Laker, Bird had 3 MVPs, Magic only 1.

Despite knowing Bird was better "player" than Magic, Magic has "better team" than Bird.

As usual, they punished MJ and made him 2nd in MVP voting. To buy Magic those 2 Season MVPs.

If 1988 MJ should not have won DPOY
1987 Cooper should not even be voted Top 10 in DPOY voting off the "bench"

I've heard enough of all this BS. LeFlopper cant win. nobody from backcourt should win DPOY. lol.

[QUOTE=gengiskhan;14924435]

1987 MJ MVP is missing (it was that close voting wise, Had MJ been laker or celtics, this would've been a cakewalk over magic with 3000 200 [/QUOTE]

Bulls went 40-42, while the Lakers won 65 games with Magic having the best season of his career. MJ wasn't sniffing MVP.

And Magic got 65 votes compared to MJ's 10 (first place votes). It wasn't a close race.

I believe Kareem is the only player in history to win MVP on a losing team, but he was competing against players like McAdoo & Cowens. MJ wasn't gonna win one with a losing record going up against a peak Magic whose team won 65 games.

Bronsexuals still fuming over this today? Yikes. Imagine being this worked up about an award from 4 decades ago LOL

[QUOTE=theman93;14924443]Bronsexuals still fuming over this today? Yikes. Imagine being this worked up about an award from 4 decades ago LOL[/QUOTE]

Says the dude whose in total denial that Jordan's numbers were fudged and nothing wrong took place even after the scorekeeper said it was true

[QUOTE=theman93;14924443]Bronsexuals still fuming over this today? Yikes. Imagine being this worked up about an award from 4 decades ago LOL[/QUOTE]

You went MIA for weeks, but immediately started posting again once this story came out.

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;14924446]Says the dude whose in total denial that Jordan's numbers were fudged and nothing wrong took place even after the scorekeeper said it was true[/QUOTE]

Read it again and weep. Only two scorekeepers were mentioned.

The boys and girl club CEO alleged the numbers were juiced in the 90’s. MJ won DPOY in 1988. Irrelevant to the year in question.

The Chicago scorekeeper, by the articles own admission, “has never been accused of padding statistics for Jordan” and the article never proved he was involved in stat padding for Jordan. He was merely only accused of stat padding for some guy in the 60’s. Allegedly.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14924448]You went MIA for weeks, but immediately started posting again once this story came out.[/QUOTE]

Fuming.

[IMG]http://www.basketwallpapers.com/Images-12/Marc-Gasol-2013-Defensive-Player-Of-The-Year-1920x1200-BasketWallpapers.com-.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=theman93;14924453]Read it again and weep. Only two scorekeepers were mentioned.

The boys and girl club CEO alleged the numbers were juiced in the 90’s. MJ won DPOY in 1988. Irrelevant to the year in question.

The Chicago scorekeeper, by the articles own admission, “has never been accused of padding statistics for Jordan” and the article never proved he was involved in stat padding for Jordan. He was merely only accused of stat padding for some guy in the 60’s. Allegedly.[/QUOTE]

:lol

fuming

[QUOTE=theman93;14924454][video=youtube;Yvd3aEsThbc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvd3aEsThbc[/video][/QUOTE]

:oldlol:

The desperation to try and take down MJ is hilarious. Keep it coming ladies. 1988 and 2013 are never coming back. :pimp:

.
What's more believable


[indent]A) record-keepers [I]league-wide[/I] were massively-cheating

B) Poor road records explain normal levels of home inflation in previous eras, while the massive inflation shown above with 90' Hakeem, 86' Robertson or 88' MJ were one-offs due to any number of reasons, such as personal issues affecting their home/road play[/indent]


I would go with option B because there's a mathematical explanation of poor road records that explains normal levels of home inflation in previous eras, while the one-offs of massive inflation are neither here nor there and could be due to any number of reasons - these one-offs occur today as well

[QUOTE=3ba11;14924461].
What's more believable

[B]
[indent]A) record-keepers [I]league-wide[/I] were massively-cheating
[/B]
B) Poor road records explain normal levels of home inflation in previous eras, while the massive inflation shown above with 90' Hakeem, 86' Robertson or 88' MJ were one-offs due to any number of reasons, such as personal issues affecting their home/road play[/indent]


I would go with option B because there's a mathematical explanation of poor road records that explains normal levels of home inflation in previous eras, while the one-offs of massive inflation are neither here nor there and could be due to any number of reasons - these one-offs occur today as well[/QUOTE]

A.

All of Wilt's and Russell's 40 rebound games happened at home. Something fishy was going on. No stats from the 60's through the 90's should be trusted.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14924462]A.

All of Wilt's and Russell's 40 rebound games happened at home. Something fishy was going on. No stats from the 60's through the 90's should be trusted.[/QUOTE]


the 50's and 60's was the real crap shoot - that's when it really was janitors and plumbers - but the 90's was a lot of the same guys that Lebron played against like KG, Kobe, Duncan, Kidd, etc

Bron fans just can't accept that their guy finished with less titles and accolade despite playing nearly twice as long

[QUOTE=3ba11;14924465]the 50's and 60's was the real crap shoot - that's when it really was janitors and plumbers - but the 90's was a lot of the same guys that Lebron played against like KG, Kobe, Duncan, Kidd, etc[/QUOTE]

What does this have to do with what I just posted? :oldlol:

[QUOTE=3ba11;14924465]the 50's and 60's was the real crap shoot - that's when it really was janitors and plumbers - but the 90's was a lot of the same guys that Lebron played against like KG, Kobe, Duncan, Kidd, etc

[B]Bron fans just can't accept that their guy finished with less titles and accolade despite playing nearly twice as long[/B][/QUOTE]

Ouch.....

[QUOTE]On a recent episode of “The Shop,” James was asked if there was an award he wished he had won. “Yeah,” James said. “Defensive Player of the Year. That’s the only award that I don’t have in my house. It kinda [B]stings[/B].”[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14924468]What does this have to do with what I just posted? :oldlol:[/QUOTE]


I said the 60's was the crap shoot and the era where the stat-keepers were tracking the stats on the backs of envelopes... not the 80's or 90's

[QUOTE=theman93;14924274]Nice strawman. I’ve never said for anyone to trust me. I’ve simply stated that’s what Haberstroh has done. No footage, no clips, no gifs, no pictures, no nothing — just Haberstroh and the underground Latvian’s alleged word. Little idiot content creators all over YouTube and Twitter are able to post clips all the time, but Haberstroh can’t with this magnitude of an allegation? In an obvious hit piece? LOL ok :roll:[/QUOTE]
Strawman? :facepalm I get that this can't be true in your world of worship, I get it. Out here in reality though? The games are listed with dates and opponents for you to follow up the research as you please. Have you? Here you go:

Atlanta at Chicago: Nov. 20, 1987

Indiana at Chicago: Jan. 5, 1988

Denver at Chicago: Jan. 7, 1988

Detroit at Chicago: Jan. 16, 1988

Atlanta at Chicago: Feb. 15, 1988

Boston at Chicago: Mar. 18, 1988
Also they explicitly state the games aren't anywhere online and they used VHS recordings from a trading club. If they wanted the games online the club would have released them already, us grown ups know the NBA would have them taken down if they aren't already available. Again you don't strike me as the sharpest knife in the drawer, but you're too old to be this slow.

[QUOTE=3ba11;14924473]I said the 60's was the crap shoot and the era where the stat-keepers were tracking the stats on the backs of envelopes... not the 80's or 90's[/QUOTE]

This gets thrown at the window when the 90s Grizzlies scorekeeper has already been exposed to padding stats. Even the Lakers scorekeeper around that same time frame gave Van Exel fraud 23 assists in a game

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14924477]This gets thrown at the window when the 90s Grizzlies scorekeeper has already been exposed to padding stats. Even the Lakers scorekeeper around that same time frame gave Van Exel fraud 23 assists in a game[/QUOTE]

And what's lost on everyone is the Bulls keeper specifically was super long tenured and was known for making a guy famous with his stat keeping "prowess".

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;14924446]Says the dude whose in total denial that Jordan's numbers were fudged and nothing wrong took place even after the scorekeeper said it was true[/QUOTE]

says the dude whose in total denial that Jordan's "away" numbers may have been UNDERreported as Yahoo Article deliberately did not look any random 6 "away" games to balance out 6 "home" games. "away" scorekeeper may have been helping "elite" teams, NBAs best lakers, celtics, sixers.

for example 1988 Portland "scorekeeper" could deliberately UNDERreporting MJs "stocks" as just pure jealousy. They had a chance of drafting MJ at #2. Since, their draft is a bust, them punishing 1988 MJ incl portland media deliberately NOT voting MJ is all possible.

who has ever looked into this.

You want to call "fraud", look into the whole thing and call everything "fraud."

MJ not winning 1987 and 1989 and 1990 season MVPs itself is a "fraud" vote in favor of Magic to get him equal to Larry's 3 MVPs count.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14924475]Strawman? :facepalm I get that this can't be true in your world of worship, I get it. Out here in reality though? The games are listed with dates and opponents for you to follow up the research as you please. Have you? Here you go:

Atlanta at Chicago: Nov. 20, 1987

Indiana at Chicago: Jan. 5, 1988

Denver at Chicago: Jan. 7, 1988

Detroit at Chicago: Jan. 16, 1988

Atlanta at Chicago: Feb. 15, 1988

Boston at Chicago: Mar. 18, 1988
Also they explicitly state the games aren't anywhere online and they used VHS recordings from a trading club. If they wanted the games online the club would have released them already, us grown ups know the NBA would have them taken down if they aren't already available. Again you don't strike me as the sharpest knife in the drawer, but you're too old to be this slow.[/QUOTE]


[img]https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fi.makeagif.com%2Fmedia%2F6-23-2024%2Fzn96it.gif[/img]


If you were a fan that was trying to count Jordan's steals for the game shown above and counted the play above as a Jordan steal, you wouldn't know for certain if the steal was actually credited to Jordan, or if the steal was credited to Mike Brown - only the record-keepers are tracking that and know that information.

that's why it's impossible to even count Jordan's steals accurately - the whole project was bs

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14924475]Strawman? :facepalm I get that this can't be true in your world of worship, I get it. Out here in reality though? The games are listed with dates and opponents for you to follow up the research as you please. Have you? Here you go:

Atlanta at Chicago: Nov. 20, 1987

Indiana at Chicago: Jan. 5, 1988

Denver at Chicago: Jan. 7, 1988

Detroit at Chicago: Jan. 16, 1988

Atlanta at Chicago: Feb. 15, 1988

Boston at Chicago: Mar. 18, 1988
Also they explicitly state the games aren't anywhere online and they used VHS recordings from a trading club. If they wanted the games online the club would have released them already, us grown ups know the NBA would have them taken down if they aren't already available. Again you don't strike me as the sharpest knife in the drawer, but you're too old to be this slow.[/QUOTE]

I'm well aware of the games allegedly collected from the underground interwebz. You're assuming he's 1) even actually watched them 2) telling the truth and 3) counting what he sees correctly. Until he and his source can be cross referenced it is all hearsay. Period the end.

[QUOTE=3ba11;14924483][img]https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fi.makeagif.com%2Fmedia%2F6-23-2024%2Fzn96it.gif[/img]


If you were a fan that was trying to count Jordan's steals for the game shown above and counted the play above as a Jordan steal, you wouldn't know for certain if the steal was actually credited to Jordan, or if the steal was credited to Mike Brown - only the record-keepers are tracking that and know that information.

That's why Haberstroh needed to count all the live ball turnovers in the game himself, and then claim that Jordan's reported steals were more than the live-ball turnovers - that's the only way to know that some of Jordan's steals were fraudulent without knowing who all the deflections and steals were credited to.

That's why the live-ball turnover thing mattered because it was the only fool-proof way to show that Jordan had fake steals - if Jordan's steals were higher than the live-ball turnovers, than voila - this shows that Jordan was credited with fake steals... [I]But we cannot verify the live-ball turnovers because Haberstroh chose 6 games that aren't available - he made sure that no one can verify his count of the live-ball turnovers.[/I][/QUOTE]

You keep reposting this to run away from explaining how 3 dead ball turnovers became 3 phantom steals for Mj. Not getting out of that one. Trying to focus on the steal they described as subjective is stupid when there's a huge elephant sitting in front of you.

[QUOTE=theman93;14924490]I'm well aware of the games allegedly collected from the underground interwebz. You're assuming he's 1) even actually watched them 2) telling the truth and 3) counting what he sees correctly. Until he and his source can be cross referenced it is all hearsay. Period the end.[/QUOTE]

I bet my house you keep that exact same energy for any story repeorted on Lebron and count it as hearsay until proven otherwise right? The stand up honorable fan you've proven to be.....:oldlol:

I just rewatched 10 lebron games and counted him shuffling his feet with poor footwork or committing offensive fouls on over 2/3rds of his possessions. We can therefor deduct his career ppg by at least 50%



sources: trust me bro

[QUOTE=theman93;14924490]I'm well aware of the games allegedly collected from the underground interwebz. You're assuming he's 1) even actually watched them 2) telling the truth and 3) counting what he sees correctly. Until he and his source can be cross referenced it is all hearsay. Period the end.[/QUOTE]

Please go a step further.......

Why Yahoo article fail to counter 6 HOME games with random 6 AWAY game from 1988 season!

It could've atleast BALANCED out the stat numbers. And this was "deliberately" overlooked.

Why is this Klutch Minion assuming AWAY scorekeepers did not UNDERreport 1988 MJ "stocks" deliberately because they had a chance to draft him (1985 portland) ahead of 1985 Bulls.

There is so much fishy stuff with this "fraud" article. Its easily discarted as a prank on MJs GOAT status.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14924492]You keep reposting this to run away from explaining how 3 dead ball turnovers became 3 phantom steals for Mj. Not getting out of that one. Trying to focus on the steal they described as subjective is stupid when there's a huge elephant sitting in front of you.[/QUOTE]


you keep mentioning dead ball turnovers that have never been reported before except by Haberstroh

people don't realize that it's impossible to do this project - it's impossible to go back and count Jordan's steals because even if you think a close call wasn't a Jordan steal, you don't know who the scorekeepers gave the steal to - they might've given it to the other guy and not to Jordan... This makes the project unfeasible and no I don't trust Haberstroh's subjective count of the live-ball turnovers... this guy is a fraud - I would love to verify his work and I'm sure youtube channels like "Uncut Hoops" would like to verify it too, but we can't because of Haberstroh's careful game selection.. it's fraud.. he's a liar.

[QUOTE=gengiskhan;14924498]Please go a step further.......

Why Yahoo article fail to counter 6 HOME games with random 6 AWAY game from 1988 season!

It could've atleast BALANCED out the stat numbers. And this was "deliberately" overlooked.

Why is this Klutch Minion assuming AWAY scorekeepers did not UNDERreport 1988 MJ "stocks" deliberately because they had a chance to draft him (1985 portland) ahead of 1985 Bulls.

There is so much fishy stuff with this "fraud" article. Its easily discarted as a prank on MJs GOAT status.[/QUOTE]

Sounds like the ball is in your court to prove it, be the hero we deserve.:pimp:

[QUOTE=3ba11;14924499]you keep mentioning dead ball turnovers that have never been reported before except by Haberstroh

people don't realize that it's impossible to do this project - it's impossible to go back and count Jordan's steals because even if you think a close call wasn't a Jordan steal, you don't know who the scorekeepers gave the steal to - they might've given it to the other guy and not to Jordan... This makes the project unfeasible and no I don't trust Haberstroh's subjective count of the live-ball turnovers... this guy is a fraud - I would love to verify his work and I'm sure youtube channels like "Uncut Hoops" would like to verify it too, but we can't because of Haberstroh's careful game selection.. it's fraud.. he's a liar.[/QUOTE]

So many posts, not one explaining how a 24 second violation can be a steal. Or dribbling off my foot out of bounds. Or a pass skipping off my fingers.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14924503]So many posts, not one explaining how a 24 second violation can be a steal. Or dribbling off my foot out of bounds. Or a pass skipping off my fingers.[/QUOTE]


Where... Show me... You're just typing words.. There's no evidence... And now you're down to 1 play?

it's impossible to go back and count Jordan's steals because even if you think a close call wasn't a Jordan steal, you don't know who the scorekeepers gave the steal to - they might've given it to the other guy and not to Jordan... This makes the project unfeasible and no I don't trust Haberstroh's subjective count of the live-ball turnovers... this guy is a fraud - I would love to verify his work and I'm sure youtube channels like "Uncut Hoops" would like to verify it too, but we can't because of Haberstroh's careful game selection.. it's fraud.. he's a liar.

[QUOTE=3ba11;14924504]Where... Show me... You're just typing words.. There's no evidence[/QUOTE]

You're attempting to disprove someone else's research without any of your own. A white knight without a sword. I'm asking you to give me a scenario where that flies. Make it make sense.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14924501]Sounds like the ball is in your court to prove it, be the hero we deserve.:pimp:[/QUOTE]

Nah...

I see that you playing games....

Onus is always on the "questioning" party. why MJ dont deserve award.

I am perfectly satisfied with 1988 MJ DPOY.

It is thoroughly deserved. Particularly 1987 MJ 3000, 200,100 highway robbery. No mvp, No dpoy, No All D 1st or 2nd team.

This was well earned. MJ should've had more than 1 dpoy.

[QUOTE=gengiskhan;14924507]Nah...

I see what you playing games....

Onus is always on the "questioning" party.

I am perfectly satisfied with 1988 MJ DPOY.

It is thoroughly deserved. Particularly 1987 MJ 3000, 200,100 highway robbery. No mvp, No dpoy, No All D 1st or 2nd team.

This was well earned. MJ should've had more than 1 dpoy.[/QUOTE]

Sounds like you don't want your truth out there then. The author did the work. If you're not willing to do yours can't really say yay or nay can you?

Atlanta at Chicago: Nov. 20, 1987: Atlanta 10 turnovers | MJ 4 steals

Indiana at Chicago: Jan. 5, 1988: Indiana 17 turnovers | MJ 4 steals

Denver at Chicago: Jan. 7, 1988: Denver 14 turnovers | MJ 6 steals

Boston at Chicago: Mar. 18, 1988: Boston 16 turnovers | MJ 5 steals

Detroit at Chicago: Jan. 16, 1988: Detroit 15 turnovers | MJ 4 steals

Atlanta at Chicago: Feb. 15, 1988: Atlanta 10 turnovers | MJ 5 steals

That equates to essentially triple the amount of turnovers per steal for the allegedly cooked games LOL. Stop the pressers everybody that is totally not believable!! :roll::roll::roll:

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14924511]Sounds like you don't want your truth out there then. [B]The author did the work[/B]. If you're not willing to do yours can't really say yay or nay can you?[/QUOTE]

[B]where are the 6 AWAY games! if the author did the work[/B]

The way Rookie MJ took NBA by storm, there was tons of Jealousy reported. Particularly, from Houston and Portland that went #1 and #2. Even LAL and Celtics were somewhat jealous (including Magic and Isiah). Larry was the only one who gave full props to rookie MJ in Media. Larry literally mentioned "nobody I've seen ever plays like him"

I want houston, portland (teams that could've drafted MJ) and LAL AWAY games included in 6 away games. that author should've included by being BALANCED and REASONABLE.

Author tried to "hoodwink" NBA fans.

Author failed at BALANCING the stats reporting. It was deliberately done!

stop this non-sense.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14924506]You're attempting to [B]disprove[/B] someone else's research without any of your own. A white knight without a sword. I'm asking you to give me a scenario where that flies. Make it make sense.[/QUOTE]

Disproving assumes it was proved in the first place. It wasn't. We are going off Haberstroh and the Latvian's word. That's not how it works lol.

[QUOTE=theman93;14924519]Disproving assumes it was proved in the first place. It wasn't. We are going off Haberstroh and the Latvian's word. That's not how it works lol.[/QUOTE]

That Sham Article is NEVER how "research" is ever done!

Where are the 6 ROAD games to BALANCE out 6 HOME games?

If researcher FAILS to show 6 ROAD games in his article,

Then these 6 HOME games become merely an "outliers"

And the Subject played full 82 games, there are plenty of HOME and ROAD games to go around.

The Researcher himself DISPROVE his own article by showing "extreme bias"