30 minute Lebron video and a totally statless case for him to be top 20 ever. Today.

I wouldnt say its a "knock" on Kobe. Just a fact that has to be considered.

And you can call it what you will....right now there arent 30 people who did anything he has not. And plenty of those who have are just factually inferior to him at playing basketball. Because hes now hated doesnt change the facts.

He is at 25 a 2 time MVP 4-5 time all nba first teamer who has led a team to the finals. What legacy says about Karl Malone, Barkley, Nique, Drexler, and so on has no bearing on who did what or how well any of them play basketball.

He is right now...the same player people will reference when calling him top 15 years from now and the only thing keeping people from saying it is a lack of foresight and/or lying to themselves.

Barring injury...he could never win it all and hes top 20 all time. And hes been that player for like 4 years.

I said almost this exact same thing of Kobe in 2003(hes currently top 20 if hes ever gonna be top 20) and plenty argued and now if you bring it up there are those who say hes top 10...and was better in 2003 than he is now.

How people fail to see how this works is beyond me. Its the same every single time.

[QUOTE=Yung D-Will]Biggest waste of 5 minutes of my life reading complete crap.[/QUOTE]
Do you even have an argument with reasons why this is crap?

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Longevity doesnt put the ball i nthe basket. Lebron retires today hes no better than if he plays on the same level for 20 years. Hes the same person. People dont get better in retrospect when they add to their legacy. Unless its a situation like Walton where a guy misses years at a time and is healthy for like 3 seasons ever...fine.

But Lebron vs most of these guys? Not much of a factor.[/QUOTE]

If that's the case, David Robinson would be rated far higher, since imo his first 6 seasons were superior to LeBron's first 7.

DRob also won 0 rings in those seasons, and only won titles when he got Duncan and deferred the scoring load to him. . .like LBJ will be doing in Miami.

DRob also has 2 rings. . .one of which is arguably best/near best player on the team with Duncan. LBJ, again, has zero.

DRob is ranked what, 25? How can you possibly rank LBJ higher than him right now? Don't tell me that one single playoff series against Hakeem somehow defines his career either, because it doesn't. He still performed well, but just not good enough. LBJ has multiple failure series in the playoffs.

Even if LBJ wins a ring in Miami, he's still behind Robinson in dominating seasons, AND rings (under similar circumstances). If you're going to argue for LBJ using the arguments you are. . .I don't see how you can put him above DRob unless you make arguments for him being rated too low on the all time list too.

its going to be fascinating to see how lebron and wade play together, since both worked off iso plays a lot last year, surely they wont run much iso since neither wade or lebron is a knock down 3pt shooter.

I find it hard to imagine how they will play togehter but as the talking head always seem to say 'great player will figure it out'

But i would point to the 08 olympics where usa had a far superior roster. people say spain play together more often which is overstated because their top player play in the nba and only get together slightly more often the usa does. anyway in that game usa won but it was much closer than the talent disparity suggests it should have been. Lebron works mostly off of isos, wade the same, kobe the same to an extent but at the end of the game even for all of the talent kobe went one on one and won the game for usa, will the same happen for miami, reducing lebron and wade to be spot up shooters at times due to the others style of play.

It seems to me that lebron and wade will have to play a different style of play or become better shooters. it would be a shame if with all the talent this team will have the end up running iso

I havent been following nba basketball for very long, but can anybody point to two ball dominant perimiter players playing together successfully?

I have no problem putting Lebron in the top 20 all time. The problem is that he was supposed to be top 3 and was hopefully gonna make a run at #1. Not possible anymore.

I went into Drob:

"Drob. see Barkley. 90s Lebron type. He never took his non outstanding team to the finals though. And he had better teams than the 07 Cavs. However...defense considered I wont argue if one wants him over Lebron."

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]I went into Drob:

"Drob. see Barkley. 90s Lebron type. He never took his non outstanding team to the finals though. And he had better teams than the 07 Cavs. However...defense considered I wont argue if one wants him over Lebron."[/QUOTE]
You trying to compare Barkley/KJ's Suns, Stockton/Malone's Jazz, Clyde/Kersey/Porter's Blazers, Hakeem/Clyde's Rockets to the trash Lebron faced in '07? Not even remotely the same situation. D-Rob messed up many times, but if he got cupcake conferences like that over and over again, we'd be seeing him leading his team to the finals too.

You leave D-Rob alone. He'a a very nice man.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]I went into Drob:

"Drob. see Barkley. 90s Lebron type. He never took his non outstanding team to the finals though. And he had better teams than the 07 Cavs. However...defense considered I wont argue if one wants him over Lebron."[/QUOTE]
DRob had better teams but the teams he faced were a lot better than the teams LeBron beat in his "magical" run to the finals. I'm not hating on Bron's run because they overachieved and he was the primary reason but LeBron in the 2009 playoffs was a lot better than he was in 2007. I'd say his 2006 playoff run was also greater than his finals run. Had like 2 gamewinners against the Wiz and took Detroit to 7 games. Remember, I'm strictly talkin' from an individual standpoint. Also, his 2007 run is grossly overrated. They weren't expected to go there. But, look at the teams he faced. .500 Wizards without Arenas and Butler, they were a trash defensive team anyway. The .500 Nets who couldn't get it done for various reasons and a Pistons team that was on the decline ever since Brown left and even more so when Wallace left. That run is grossly overrated.

DRob couldn't get it done as the man, either but he faced much better teams than he did. I'm not saying DRob would have won as the man in LeBron's place because he was a softie who didn't have the mentality to dominate. Always folded under pressure. But, really, 1995 Rockets with Hakeem on fire and team in top form, 1994/6 Jazz with Stockton/Hornacek/Malone and 1993 Suns with MVP Barkley which came to a Barkley gamewinner in game 6 are MUCH better teams than anything LeBron faced. And this is factoring in teams/rosters relative to era.

Well, if you're going to rank players purely on how well they played the game of basketball, and ignore things like longevity and accolades, then LBJ is closer top 5 All-Time then top 20 and Kobe has no case for top 10.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]I went into Drob:

"Drob. see Barkley. 90s Lebron type. He never took his non outstanding team to the finals though. And he had better teams than the 07 Cavs. However...defense considered I wont argue if one wants him over Lebron."[/QUOTE]

Oh okay. Yeah that makes sense then DRob had crazy good defense, and was just as dominant if not more dominant than LBJ has ever been.


[QUOTE=Scoooter]You leave D-Rob alone. He'a a very nice man.[/QUOTE]

He's my second fav' player ever, after MJ. Very underrated center. I'd never bash the guy. Imo best personality the NBA's ever seen too. Ultimate "good guy".

TTT

Does anybody actually read these long soliloquies?

[QUOTE=Ne 1]Does anybody actually read these long soliloquies?[/QUOTE]

5 minutes of troll junk vs 5 minutes of a thought out post:confusedshrug: