So are people taking the Mavs seriously as top title contender yet?

[QUOTE=BarberSchool] that have made me emotionally commit to the mavericks again, and I can't wait for the postseason. See your team there.:pimp:[/QUOTE]

I am an enthusiastic Laker fan, Barber School. Now Kobe is authentically a top 25 NBA historical player...as his 5 glistening rings exclaim. And further, it is Pau Gasol who is the greatest foreign player to toil on the NBA's hallowed court...and no other.

As for your emotional rebirth and commitment in supporting the Mavs and statistical marvel Dirk?

You, sir, are accurately described as a masochist.

You all can apologize and excuse all you want...but Dirk, Mark Cuban and the Dallas Mavericks have a history that will continually repeat. Bank it like cash money

Call me skeptical. It's not necessarily how the Mavericks play in the playoffs (which is far from flawless, under pressure), it's how opponents [I]play[/I] the Mavs in the playoffs. They turn them into jump shooters, they make Dirk carry the team, they make the Mavs defend, they make Carlisle have to adjust, etc. Regular season is one thing, but I think when you really put the clamp down on players like Dirk, Terry, and even Jason Kidd, they're going to have a hard time getting more W's than L's. They don't exit in the first round a few times just by fluke, they lack(ed) too many things I think, starting from the best player on the team's qualities to the coach's. I take every team in the league seriously though, especially considering surprises happen every season, and the Mavs have been to the Finals once. But the only true "top title contenders" in my mind are the Lakers and Celtics. Spurs, Mavs, Heat, all contenders but not quite at the top looking down.

Dallas and any Dirk led team should never be taken seriously as a threat until they have won 4 games in the NBA finals. And I mean actually won, the buzzer ran out and the Finals MVP trophy has been presented. I don't care if there are two seconds on the clock and Dallas has a 50 point lead. They could win all 82 games in the regular season and they still shouldn't be the favorite going into the post-season. Dirk's Dallas teams have always been regular season monsters.

That's just how it is when you have won 50 games for like 10 years straight and have lost in the first round as both a 1 and 2 seed and never won it all.

I actually think they're better in the underdog role because their biggest playoff series wins have been when they weren't favored. When they're favored, more often than not, it's an embarrassing exit.

[QUOTE=R4E]And further, it is Pau Gasol who is the greatest foreign player to toil on the NBA's hallowed court...and no other. [/QUOTE]
:roll:

But nice way of totally ignoring my post. Very revealing of the credibility of you and your arguments...

[QUOTE=R4E]As for your emotional rebirth and commitment in supporting the Mavs and statistical marvel Dirk?

You, sir, are accurately described as a masochist.

You all can apologize and excuse all you want...but Dirk, Mark Cuban and the Dallas Mavericks have a history that will continually repeat. Bank it like cash money[/QUOTE]
No Mavs fan has ever apologized in this thread. :confusedshrug: Dallas might not have a ring, but they've had some nice runs in the playoffs the last decade and have been great in the RS. If you just happen to be a Lakers fan, good for you, but it's not like you contributed anything to their rings, so who cares. Being fan of one of the most successful NBA franchises doesn't make you a better supporter, quite the contrary, popularity begets even more popularity, so there are a lot of bandwagoners who put the real fans in a bad light.

[QUOTE=creepingdeath]:roll:

But nice way of totally ignoring my post. Very revealing of the credibility of you and your arguments... [/QUOTE]

I chose not to engage you further, creepingdeath - not for lack of respecting the way you see the game or your use statistics to support your arguments - which is admirable by the way...

In 2 posts you have exacerbated a tactic about describing me as self-revealing my ignorance. And if I am truly ignorant? I did not think you wanted to see a response from me. I honestly thought you were grandstanding to soothe Dirk apologists. It is all good...

:cheers:

[I]If you just happen to be a Lakers fan, good for you, but it's not like you contributed anything to their rings, so who cares.[/I]

While true, I am not sure you are the one to measure that in ignorance.

Barber School ended - see your team in the playoffs - is why I designated myself as a Laker Fan - and no other reason.

Pau Gasol, who has never won a playoff game as the #1 option, is the best foreign player ever to touch an NBA court.

Hilarious.

[QUOTE=Hawker]Pau Gasol, who has never won a playoff game as the #1 option, is the best foreign player ever to touch an NBA court.

Hilarious.[/QUOTE]

Pau Gasol has the 2 most recent rings.

But you have a point if we get technical.

Ewing - Jamaica
Olajuwon - Nigeria
Wilkins - France
Nash - Canada
Ginobili - Argentina
Gasol - Spain
Nowitzki - Germany

That is quite a team, if their primes were to coincide

[QUOTE=R4E]I chose not to engage you further, creepingdeath - not for lack of respecting the way you see the game or your use statistics to support your arguments - which is admirable by the way...

In 2 posts you have exacerbated a tactic about describing me as self-revealing my ignorance. And if I am truly ignorant? I did not think you wanted to see a response from me. I honestly thought you were grandstanding to soothe Dirk apologists. It is all good...

:cheers:[/QUOTE]
No harm done, but consider this: The usual strategy of haters on ISH (may that be a Kobe hater, a Lebron hater or a Dirk hater) is to troll around in a thread, post one-liners & diss on a player.

But there's an even more aggravating kind of troll: the sophisticated one. Those self-righteous haters taunt us with longer posts, trying to appeal as a credible person with actual arguments for a change. So when you react to such posts, bring up your own criterion and really put your heart into a post writing long paragraphs, you'll get ignored again. Until another thread with the same agenda pops up... Picture-perfect example of this: Showtime.

And I'm sorry, but I just can't accept it if someone's claiming that Dirk has never had any playoff success, doesn't show up in the clutch, is a choker, inferior to a guy like Pau Gasol etc.

Happens every year

The guys that have one as inarguable first options in the 2000's:

Shaq
Duncan
Kobe

That's it.

So to say Dirk doesn't have the will to win is questionable at best since you could point to the list above and claim the same thing about every other player in the league. Is Dirk as good as those three historically? Absolutely not. But neither is anyone else. These are 3 of the top 10 players of all time.

Think about that. OF ALL TIME. Think of the thousands of players that have come in and out of the NBA. Just because Dirk doesn't stack up to those three doesn't mean that should be held against him.

To use Dirk's series against Denver as a negative is pure stupidity. Use his Warriors series if anything. That's really the only series you could claim as a truly poor performance (even then he averaged 20...on awful percentages but still averaged 20...just saying). Maybe the finals against the Heat but even then Dirk hit a potential game winner over Shaq just to have Wade get bailed out on the other end.

You can use subjective ideas like "will" and "toughness" and whatever else you want to claim he doesn't have. The stats will negate all of that. How many players have sniffed a Finals series? He lost. Yeah, it sucks for him and his fans. But he made it further as the leader of a team then 99.9% of the NBA does. Think about that.

He's a tremendous player. I wouldn't say top 25 all time. He can get there, but he's absolutely top 40. First ballot Hall of Famer without a question. Instead of just talking about whether or not KG would toss him around a court (proven to be false) or whether someone like Bowen could shut him down (also false) why can't you just see that he is an all time great and respect him as such. You don't have to like the way he plays but the stuff you are pulling out is flat out preposterous.

By the way, this whole post was directed at R4E.

Before anyone asks, I'm a Wizards fan...I just appreciate good basketball since I so rarely get to see it.

[QUOTE=ACCBaller1403]The guys that have one as inarguable first options in the 2000's:

Shaq
Duncan
Kobe

That's it.

So to say Dirk doesn't have the will to win is questionable at best since you could point to the list above and claim the same thing about every other player in the league. Is Dirk as good as those three historically? Absolutely not. But neither is anyone else. These are 3 of the top 10 players of all time.

Think about that. OF ALL TIME. Think of the thousands of players that have come in and out of the NBA. Just because Dirk doesn't stack up to those three doesn't mean that should be held against him.

To use Dirk's series against Denver as a negative is pure stupidity. Use his Warriors series if anything. That's really the only series you could claim as a truly poor performance (even then he averaged 20...on awful percentages but still average 20...just saying). Maybe the finals against the Heat but even then Dirk hit a potential game winner over Shaq just to have Wade get bailed out on the other end.

You can use subjective ideas like "will" and "toughness" and whatever else you want to claim he doesn't have. The stats will negate all of that. How many players have sniffed a Finals series? He lost. Yeah, it sucks for him and his fans. But he made it further as the leader of a team then 99.9% of the NBA does. Think about that.

He's a tremendous player. I wouldn't say top 25 all time. He can get there, but he's absolutely top 40. First ballot Hall of Famer without a question. Instead of just talking about whether or not KG would toss him around a court (proven to be false) or whether someone like Bowen could shut him down (also false) why can't you just see that he is an all time great and respect him as such. You don't have to like the way he plays but the stuff you are pulling out is flat out preposterous.

By the way, this whole post was directed at RE4.

Before anyone asks, I'm a Wizards fan...I just appreciate good basketball since I so rarely get to see it.[/QUOTE]

Wow, great post. Tooks some words right out of my mouth :applause:

[QUOTE=R4E]Pau Gasol has the 2 most recent rings.[/QUOTE]

So Darko is better than Ewing, Malone, Barkley, Kemp, and Dirk.

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]So Darko is better than Ewing, Malone, Barkley, Kemp, and Dirk.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely not.

What I meant to say is that Pau Gasol, with his filthy nuanced NBA game and skillset, is the greatest [I][B]european[/B][/I] basketball player to ever toil in the NBA.

What about that?!

And that includes Parker, Ginobili, Petrovic, Vujacic, Divac, etc

[QUOTE=ACCBaller1403]He's a tremendous player. I wouldn't say top 25 all time. He can get there, but he's absolutely top 40. First ballot Hall of Famer without a question. Instead of just talking about whether or not KG would toss him around a court (proven to be false) or whether someone like Bowen could shut him down (also false) why can't you just see that he is an all time great and respect him as such. You don't have to like the way he plays but the stuff you are pulling out is flat out preposterous.

By the way, this whole post was directed at R4E.[/QUOTE]

Good post. Thanx. That does not mean that I agree.

In terms of the possibilities of winning an NBA championship? I dont think Dirk is a true franchise player. That is not to say that Dirk is not a highly skilled piece of a chamionship puzzle, however. I just dont believe that Dirk is [B]the[/B] guy...[I]that[/I] guy a franchise builds around. The Mavericks designated the wrong player if their intent was to win championships. - Now...if Cuban just wanted to show and to fill the house nightly? And had no real intention of winning a ring(s)? Or would bindly luck into a championship ring if the stars aligned just right? Dirk N is the perfect man for that job. An imposter franchise player....a thinly veiled fraud of a faux dominant statistics amassing regular season marvel. That is how I see Dirk. If an Eastern team is lucky enough to draw Dirk and the Mavs in the NBA Finals??? They are going to be secretly getting their ring sized before tipoff of game 1.

I will go further and say if Dirk does get a ring? Dirk is going to have to latch onto a real franchise player as a "teammate" to get that championship ring.

[QUOTE=R4E]
I will go further and say if Dirk does get a ring? Dirk is going to have to latch onto a real franchise player as a "teammate" to get that championship ring.[/QUOTE]
What if he wins a ring as the #1 option within the next 4 years with the current squad (and maybe complementary trades)?