Solid Snake, I couldn't agree with you more. Thank you for expressing my thoughts so very well.:rockon:
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Solid Snake, I couldn't agree with you more. Thank you for expressing my thoughts so very well.:rockon:
[QUOTE=Snow]Because they are too busy trying to ignore the fact that you are an ignorant racist.
Shaq should have won one over Nash, but also at least another versus Tim Duncan or AI. Last time I checked neither of them boys is white.[/QUOTE]
ye ayeha, in racist. keep avoiding the central issue i raised. nash's race has everything to do wit it.
[QUOTE=jaja]Why is everyone avoiding the obvious fact that Nash being white is the reason he won two and may win 3.[/QUOTE]
It didn't have anything to do with him leading the league in assists and leading his team to great season...without their second best player (Amare)?
AI played in the Eastern Conference, the same as Jason Kidd, who had the easy road to the finals during early 2000s. Put this Suns team, w/Nash, Amare, Marion into the Eastern Conference and see that 22-3 record magnified. They would own'd the East the way they owned them this year. 62 wins two years ago would have been close to 70 if they played in the East. They won more games that year than D-Wade's Heat (Shaq was carried, fact, check last year's finals) in the Western Conference. The Eastern Conference doesn't have the luxury of Dallas, Phoenix, San Antonio, Utah, Houston, etc. The big names kill one another, weaken one another, so the East could be lucky, as lucky as with Detroit and Miami.
The West is to the East the way the AFC is to the NFC.
wade carried shaq last years finals, but in 05 (shaq's first year in miami) it was him who carried that team, wade's ppg increased by 9, that no name scrub damon jones looked like a household quality 3pt shooter ending up 2nd in 3pt shots and top 5 in 3pt%, shaq carried that team to 59 wins, not wade, last year is irrelevant as shaq wasn't in mvp contention last year.
Dwyane Wade 9 pt increase was natural progression. It wasn't like Wade was in the league for 7 years and all of a sudden, added nearly 10 pts to his arsenal. Wade the year before lead the Heat in the playoffs w/o Shaq.
but that isnt what we are discussing here :confusedshrug: we are discussing who was the heat's mvp in '05, and that was shaq, not wade, it wasnt wade who made that bum damon jones shoot 3's like he was dale ellis, shaq did.
It's like saying, the addition of Hughes allowed LeBron James to average 30 PPG, etc. Wade 9 pt increase is the natural progression of any talent. Like Amare going from 12-20 and then with Nash, to 26. It is natural for a player to increase in their ability. It wasn't like Wade averaged 15 pts the last 5 seasons. He was able to put the same numbers this season as last when Shaq was gone. So i see Wade having that "it" factor and easily the one who carried Shaq then, and now. Then again, why does a player like Shaq have a Anfernee, Kobe, Dwyane wade for if he does it himself.
[QUOTE=c_az_a]It's like saying, the addition of Hughes allowed LeBron James to average 30 PPG, etc..[/QUOTE]
care to elaborate ?? unless you think someone like hughes makes the difference a dominate center like shaq does i dont see the point for this.
[QUOTE=c_az_a] Wade 9 pt increase is the natural progression of any talent. Like Amare going from 12-20 and then with Nash, to 26. ..[/QUOTE]
its a mix of both, if you dont think the mvp spoonfeeding amare with easy pickandroll dunks had anything to do with his increased average then you dont know much basketball, the amare/nash case is more obvious than wade's situation, but its still there.
[QUOTE=c_az_a]He was able to put the same numbers this season as last when Shaq was gone. So i see Wade having that "it" factor and easily the one who carried Shaq then, and now. Then again, why does a player like Shaq have a Anfernee, Kobe, Dwyane wade for if he does it himself.[/QUOTE]
now ? of course, shaq is averaging 13/6 and is clearly done, back in 05 ? nah, that was shaq's team, penny's fg%, 3pt%, ppg, apg all went down after shaq left orlando, he lead the team to 45 wins when shaq had lead them to 50, 57 and 60 in the years they were together, kobe lead LA to its 2nd worst record in 40 years and i'll give wade the benefit of the doubt because he hasnt played enough without shaq to judge him, but shaq was the mvp front-runner in 05, wasnt he ? that only proves my point, he carried that team, as he did in orlando and LA, not penny, not kobe, not wade, it wasnt until last year that shaq became a "carried".
[QUOTE=DreamRockets]
now ? of course, shaq is averaging 13/6 and is clearly done, back in 05 ? nah, that was shaq's team, penny's fg%, 3pt%, ppg, apg all went down after shaq left orlando, he lead the team to 45 wins when shaq had lead them to 50, 57 and 60 in the years they were together, kobe lead LA to its 2nd worst record in 40 years and i'll give wade the benefit of the doubt because he hasnt played enough without shaq to judge him, but shaq was the mvp front-runner in 05, wasnt he ? that only proves my point, he carried that team, as he did in orlando and LA, not penny, not kobe, not wade, it wasnt until last year that shaq became a "carried".[/QUOTE]
It just shows, Nash could leave an organization like Dallas to where it is now while Shaq leaves an organization in disarray. Now in accounting purposes, we can use these past experience with Shaq and predict the future values of the Heat when Shaq leaves.
On another note. Who would pay a guy like Shaq $20 million when he's clearly declining. I want to see Shaq actually care about a team and giving them purpose to win by sacrificing his income so they can get other guys around the league to join them. If he is about championship, why is he asking for 1/5 of a 100 million dollars when he should know, that he isn't the player he once were. Now, every since he joined the Heat, this true icon Dwyane Wade has carried the 300 pound thin-looking gorilla to shine once again. So he can beat his chest. And now this icon, D-Wade is gone. Let's see if Shaq, for the first time ever, can lead a team (especially in the East) and leave us skeptics claims to rest.
Shaq ever played with a team that featured only him and a cast of supporting cast? w/o the likes of Anfernee, Kobe, D-Wade, etc.
[QUOTE=DreamRockets]care to elaborate ?? unless you think someone like hughes makes the difference a dominate center like shaq does i dont see the point for this.
its a mix of both, if you dont think the mvp spoonfeeding amare with easy pickandroll dunks had anything to do with his increased average then you dont know much basketball, the amare/nash case is more obvious than wade's situation, but its still there.
now ? of course, shaq is averaging 13/6 and is clearly done, back in 05 ? nah, that was shaq's team, penny's fg%, 3pt%, ppg, apg all went down after shaq left orlando, he lead the team to 45 wins when shaq had lead them to 50, 57 and 60 in the years they were together, kobe lead LA to its 2nd worst record in 40 years and i'll give wade the benefit of the doubt because he hasnt played enough without shaq to judge him, but shaq was the mvp front-runner in 05, wasnt he ? that only proves my point, he carried that team, as he did in orlando and LA, not penny, not kobe, not wade, it wasnt until last year that shaq became a "carried".[/QUOTE]
Shaq didn't carry the team in the 05-06 season. Though he got a lot of MVP consideration, he was no more responsible for the heat's success than wade. In the regular season, Wade and Shaq were the perfect compliments to each other. Shaq was still dominant and Wade was emerging as a superstar. In the playoffs, it was pretty clear that it was wade's team. Shaq missed 6 games and the whole second round. Wade led the heat to a 4-2 series victory over the Nets and a 4-0 victory over the Wizards while posting historic numbers. In the sereies against the Pistons, Wade dominated the pistons with the exception of game 1, until he suffered a hip contusion. Before wade went down, the heat were clearly in control of the series. Wade missed game six and the heat lost by 20+ points and he never recoverd. So anyone who says that Shaq "carried" wade or the heat is mistaken.
[QUOTE=c_az_a]Dwyane Wade 9 pt increase was natural progression. It wasn't like Wade was in the league for 7 years and all of a sudden, added nearly 10 pts to his arsenal. Wade the year before lead the Heat in the playoffs w/o Shaq.[/QUOTE]
With lamar Odom... and in the EAST!
[QUOTE=Free] [B]Wade led the heat to a 4-2 series victory over the Nets[/B] and a 4-0 victory over the Wizards while posting historic numbers. In the sereies against the Pistons, Wade dominated the pistons with the exception of game 1, until he suffered a hip contusion. Before wade went down, the heat were clearly in control of the series. Wade missed game six and the heat lost by 20+ points and he never recoverd. So anyone who says that Shaq "carried" wade or the heat is mistaken.[/QUOTE]
Don't want to be an ass because that was a good post, but they swept the Nets too.
Shaq has never won it all without an all-star at his side...Kobe and Wade.
Yes, Kobe did carry Shaq. Remember, Shaq sat out half the season to have toes surgery "on company time". Then, in the playoffs, Kobe carried Shaq...example: remember game 7 against Portland? Obviously Wade carried Shaq last year. This is not meant to be a knock on Shaq. All Champs have had a one-two punch. Shaq was a dominant center and an all-time top-10 center.