The Wilt Chamberlain Offensive Scouting Report Project Thread:

Hey Laz what do you think about Wilt's finger roll?

[QUOTE=turnaroundJ]Hey Laz what do you think about Wilt's finger roll?[/QUOTE]

One of the greatest offensive weapons in NBA history.

Again, using "at the rim", and 3-10 foot shooting, and I suspect the two greatest post scoring players in NBA history, were Kareem and Wilt.

And Shaq and Chamberlain were the two greatest "at the rim" players.

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]One of the greatest offensive weapons in NBA history.

Again, using "at the rim", and 3-10 foot shooting, and I suspect the two greatest post scoring players in NBA history, were Kareem and Wilt.

And Shaq and Chamberlain were the two greatest "at the rim" players.[/QUOTE]

Why did she shoot it facing backwards and/or fading away though? And sometimes at a distance (the 3-10 ft you're referring to)

Was that something he'd always done? I'm genuinely curious.

I've seen the highlights of course, but also some finals footage where he completely bricks some.

[QUOTE=turnaroundJ]Why did she shoot it facing backwards and/or fading away though? And sometimes at a distance (the 3-10 ft you're referring to)

Was that something he'd always done? I'm genuinely curious.

I've seen the highlights of course, but also some finals [B]footage[/B] where he completely bricks some.[/QUOTE]

That's the problem...

the only footage we have of Chamberlain equates to less 2% of his NBA career.

Still, and as I pointed out a few posts back, there is this massive misconception that the only way Wilt scored was by dunking. And the Wilt-bashers seem to think he couldn't do anything else. Yet, in the little footage we have of an early NBA Chamberlain, he was making a large percentage of 5-15 foot shots.

And we know, by those that were actually around in his early NBA career, that he had very good range (read quotes from peers in my post a few posts back.) That would explain his FG%'s of .461, .509, .506, and .528 in his first four seasons.

In the mid-60's, he narrowed his range and shot selection (and was still leading the league in scoring), and his FG%'s rose dramatically. And after his surgery, and into the 70's, he was primarily scoring "at the rim", which would explain his off-the-charts FG%'s.

I have read quotes from Thurmond, that he (Nate) could stop the finger-roll...but how does he explain a mid-60's Chamberlain routinely hanging 30+ point games against him (and even crushing him by margins of 38-15 and 45-13...as well as having an entire season of 21 ppg on a .633 FG% against him)?

An early NBA Wilt was just unstoppable from the standpoint that he could score from up to 15 feet. There was simply no way of defending him. And a mid-60's Chamberlain was only taking much better shots, and again, if he shot it, it too was unstoppable.

The Wilt-bashers will always try to minimize Chamberlain's scoring seasons, but they never acknowledge that a Wilt from 67-69 still put up the highest scoring games during those seasons.

And it's too bad that Wilt blew out his knee in the ninth game of his 69-70 season. His new coach, Joe Mullaney, had asked Wilt to focus on scoring again, and in those first nine games, Wilt responded by leading the league in scoring at 32.2 ppg (and on a .579 FG%.) Included were games of 33, 35, 37 (against 7-0 Tom Boerwinkle), 38 (against reigning MVP Wes Unseld), 42 (against Bob Rule), and 43 points. Oh, and in his one H2H with Kareem before that injury, he just shelled Alcindor in every facet of the game (he outscored him, 25-23; outrebounded him, 25-20; outassisted him, 5-2; outblocked him 3-2; and outshot him from the field, 9-14 to 9-21.)

So, here was a 33 year old Wilt, on his way to yet another scoring title, and doing so with a spectacular FG%, too. Oh, and a one-legged Wilt, only four months removed from major knee surgery, still put up a 23.2 ppg, 24.1 rpg, .625 FG% seven game Finals.

[QUOTE=fpliii]I'm not a Wilt fan, but I'm wondering if you think this is reasonable:
[CODE] %rim FG% %else FG% tot FG% FT%
60-61 0.40 70.0% 0.60 34.3% 48.6% 54.2%
62-63 0.40 70.0% 0.60 39.3% 51.6% 60.4%
64-66 0.40 70.0% 0.60 40.7% 52.4% 50.4%
67-68 0.70 70.0% 0.30 48.3% 63.5% 41.0%
69-73 0.70 70.0% 0.30 38.3% 60.5% 47.5%[/CODE][/QUOTE]

If a prime Shaq was only taking 45% of his shots "at the rim", then I suspect an early NBA Wilt (from 59-60 thru 62-63) was probably more "Duncan-like" and was around 30-35%. Which would have put his 3+ foot range shooting in the 40-45% (maybe even higher) category. And in reality, I suspect that Wilt's range from 60-63 was probably around 5-10 ft, on average, with a considerable amount of shots from 10-15 ft.

[QUOTE=turnaroundJ]Why did she shoot it facing backwards and/or fading away though? And sometimes at a distance (the 3-10 ft you're referring to)

Was that something he'd always done? I'm genuinely curious.

[B]I've seen the highlights of course, but also some finals footage where he completely bricks some.[/B][/QUOTE]
So? I've seen Jordan completely brick dunks, was it truthfully a bad shot perhaps? :facepalm :oldlol:

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]So? I've seen Jordan completely brick dunks, bad shot perhaps? :facepalm :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

Fatal posted footage of a Wilt, chasing down a shot at the sideline, and then stumbling to fire up a shot that clanked off the top of the backboard. It was an obvious attempt to disparage Wilt's offense. Of course, he never mentioned that the 24 second clock was about to expire either.

BTW, I remember PHILA posting footage of Shaq, from about five feet away, shooting an air-ball.

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]If a prime Shaq was only taking 45% of his shots "at the rim", then I suspect an early NBA Wilt (from 59-60 thru 62-63) was probably more "Duncan-like" and was around 30-35%. Which would have put his 3+ foot range shooting in the 40-45% (maybe even higher) category. And in reality, I suspect that Wilt's range from 60-63 was probably around 5-10 ft, on average, with a considerable amount of shots from 10-15 ft.[/QUOTE]
That's possible too, I was just speculating.

BTW do you have an idea of roughly during which seasons Wilt shot free throws underhanded, and when he started the far back and to the side of the line routine? CavsFTW gave some good responses above, just wondering what your thoughts are.

For those that somehow believe that an early Chamberlain was taking 75% from "at the rim", here are a prime Shaq's numbers, from his 00-01 season (and again, we don't have anything before that season)...

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealsh01/shooting/2001/[/url]

Clearly, a prime Shaq was probably taking a far greater percentage of his "at the rim" shots than an early Wilt. BUT, it was STILL only 43.2% of the time. The more interesting comparison would have been a mid-60's Chamberlain, particularly in his 66-67 season.

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]The Wilt-bashers will always try to minimize . Oh, and in his one H2H with Kareem before that injury, he just shelled Alcindor in every facet of the game (he outscored him, 25-23; outrebounded him, 25-20; outassisted him, 5-2; outblocked him 3-2; and outshot him from the field, 9-14 to 9-21.)

So, here was a 33 year old Wilt, on his way to yet another scoring title, and doing so with a spectacular FG%, too. Oh, and a one-legged Wilt, only four months removed from major knee surgery, still put up a 23.2 ppg, 24.1 rpg, .625 FG% seven game Finals
.[/QUOTE]


Love your videos. But you really don't care about being taken seriously do you?

He SHELLED Alcinder. Come on.

[QUOTE=fpliii]That's possible too, I was just speculating.

BTW do you have an idea of roughly during which seasons Wilt shot free throws underhanded, and when he started the far back and to the side of the line routine? CavsFTW gave some good responses above, just wondering what your thoughts are.[/QUOTE]

I only saw Wilt from 63-64 on. He was shooting under-handed by then. And I can't exactly when he went to the 18 ft FT attempts, but I believe it was after his knee injury.

What was interesting, though, was the fact that a college, and then an early-NBA Wilt actually had very good form. And while he was not a good FT shooter then, he was around the 60% mark (and often had spectacular games from the line.) Clearly, "hack-a-Wilt" in his early years was not worth it.

[QUOTE=stanlove1111]Love your videos. But you really don't care about being taken seriously do you?

He SHELLED Alcinder. Come on.[/QUOTE]

In EVERY facet of the game.

Makes you wonder what a PRIME Chamberlain would have carpet-bombed him with, doesn't it?

[QUOTE=turnaroundJ]Why did she shoot it facing backwards and/or fading away though? And sometimes at a distance (the 3-10 ft you're referring to)

Was that something he'd always done? I'm genuinely curious.

I've seen the highlights of course, but also some finals footage where he completely bricks some.[/QUOTE]

The finger roll was a counter.

Wilt's main move off the block, of course, was the power dunk. But he had a whole series of counters:

* He would spin off either shoulder for the dunk;
* He would spin toward the baseline, past the help defender, and go under the basket for the dunk;
* He would spin away from the basket for the turnaround fadeaway;
* He would spin away from the basket, take a step towards the free throw line, spin and shoot an 8 foot jumper;
* He would spin towards the baseline and shoot a hook shot;
* He would spin away from the basket, and put up the finger roll.

In Philly he had a whole team of excellent outside shooters, and they ran the triangle with all those cutters..... his offensive game became just overkill. In LA, Wilt had the same offensive skills but he was the third option, 4th or not at all. He would take 2 or 3 shots, a lot of games none at all.

Wilt used to go to the playgrounds in Philly or NYC in the summers and you could watch him in the afternoons or in the evening, running Mikan drills, practicing his hook shot, and polishing his enormous repertoire. He did it by the hour, and he would draw enormous crowds - especially there would be girls. Girls everywhere!!
Every one of those moves was a "go-to" move - you had to defend each one of them as a #1 threat - which of course, made him unstoppable.

[B][I]edit ~~ those moves all started from this position right here:[/B]

[/I][img]http://cbsphilly.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/wilt-chamberlain.jpg%3Fw%3D300[/img]

[img]http://www.nba.com/bulls/sites/bulls/files/content/images-top/2013/03/wilt_130325.jpg[/img]
[B]
If you got stuck down low with him like that, it was just [I]too bad[/I].[/B]

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]For those that somehow believe that an early Chamberlain was taking 75% from "at the rim", here are a prime Shaq's numbers, from his 00-01 season (and again, we don't have anything before that season)...

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealsh01/shooting/2001/[/url]

Clearly, a prime Shaq was probably taking a far greater percentage of his "at the rim" shots than an early Wilt. BUT, it was STILL only 43.2% of the time. The more interesting comparison would have been a mid-60's Chamberlain, particularly in his 66-67 season.[/QUOTE]

That's an enlightening graph. Since "at rim" shots are considered only the ones taken from <3 feet away and the pretty much most "bulldozer" prime versions of Shaq, the player who had by far the most dunks than any other since the early 90's, were taking less than 60% and, at times, less than 50% of their shots from that range, any notion of young Wilt (=the one trying to play with finesse and style rather than with power) taking 60-70% of their shots at rim is ridiculous. I especially feel so for rookie Wilt, who shot by far a career-low in FG%, yet his FT% was the 3rd highest of his career. This makes me suspect that rookie Wilt had by far the worst shooting selections of his career and therefore not many "at rim" shots at all.