Re: Why did the bulls still win 55 games without jordan?
[QUOTE=97 bulls]He wasn't pulled. He took himself out. Many people also believed Wilt took himself out because he didn't want to shoulder the blame for another Laker loss.
I do believe he took himself out to save face. So yes Wilt had his moment as well.[/QUOTE]
This is just speculation. All the (circumstantial albeit) evidence point this way:
Jerry West was incensed by this
Van Brenda being subsequently fired immediately after the series.
The fact that he exited the game on his own (again, to rest his knee just MONTHS after surgery) doesn't negate the fact that he wanted to come back in, and the fact that he wasn't able to come in. That myth was started, and has since been carried on by Mr. Russell; doesn't help that Wilt had an unfavorable reputation in the clutch as well
Meanwhile, we have a player that led the league in FG attempts NINE times, would've been ten had he played all of '95, taking 8 shot attempts in an ECF game :confusedshrug:
Re: Why did the bulls still win 55 games without jordan?
Guys Jordan simply didnt impact the game like other GOATS like Magic,Kareem Wilt and LeBron..
its that simple...
Re: Why did the bulls still win 55 games without jordan?
[QUOTE=Marlo_Stanfield]Guys Jordan simply didnt impact the game like other GOATS like Magic,Kareem Wilt and LeBron..
its that simple...[/QUOTE]
To add
Bulls 1993 with Jordan 57-25(won championship,rigged series vs knicks,just saying), next year without him 55-27 lost to knicks in 2nd round while pippen was called for phantom foul on davis, if they advaced they would have big chance against indiana to go even to the finals.
Celtics 1969 with Russel 48-34(won championship), next year without him 34-48 didn't even enter the playoffs
Lakers 1973 with Chamberlain 60-22 lost in nba finals, next year without him 47-35, lost in the first round
Bucks 1974 with Robertson 59-23 lost in the finals, next year without him 38-44 didn't enter playoffs
Celtics 1988 with Larry Bird 57-25, lost in conference finals
Next year without him 42-40 lost 3-0 in the first round
Lakers 1991 with Magic 57-25 lost in nba finals, next year without him 43-39 lost 3-1 in the first round
And many of these were cause players were old and got injured, not in their prime because they wanted to try to play some other sports and betray their team.
And now when you see other great players impact you realize that the idea of wanting to prove how they can do it without michael and that they were playing above their limits doesn't really make sense.
Re: Why did the bulls still win 55 games without jordan?
So basically with Jordan 3-peat
Without Jordan 2nd round exit possible ecf if not for a bad call
:roll: stay reaching LeBron/Kobe stans
Anyway the team was lead by one of the greatest players ever, along with arguably the GOAT coach and a group of experienced championship players who wanted to prove that they were still good without mj. I don't think any mj stan would deny those bulls teams were good without him, but when he was with them he lifted the team to dynasty status.
6/6 :bowdown:
[IMG]http://doubledribble.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/michael-jordan-6-fingers.jpg[/IMG]
Re: Why did the bulls still win 55 games without jordan?
[QUOTE=Warfan][B]So basically with Jordan 3-peat
Without Jordan 2nd round exit possible ecf if not for a bad call[/B]
:roll: stay reaching LeBron/Kobe stans
Anyway the team was lead by one of the greatest players ever, along with arguably the GOAT coach and a group of experienced championship players who wanted to prove that they were still good without mj. I don't think any mj stan would deny those bulls teams were good without him, but when he was with them he lifted the team to dynasty status.
6/6 :bowdown:
[IMG]http://doubledribble.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/michael-jordan-6-fingers.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
I am not stan, just want to make things clear.
And you show your lack of knowledge but i am used to it when it comes to Jordan fanatics.
Next year he comes back, they play without grant and they lose 4-2 in the second round. 4-3 in the second round year before without him and next year with him they lose 4-2. :biggums:
Re: Why did the bulls still win 55 games without jordan?
[QUOTE=tragicbronson]I am not stan, just want to make things clear.
And you show your lack of knowledge but i am used to it when it comes to Jordan fanatics.
Next year he comes back, they play without grant and they lose 4-2 in the second round. 4-3 in the second round year before without him and next year with him they lose 4-2. :biggums:[/QUOTE]
:applause:
while jordan is the 4th best player ever, his impact on basketball games was always overrated a bit.
what was not overrated tho was his ability to decide games in the Clutch:applause:
Re: Why did the bulls still win 55 games without jordan?
[QUOTE=tragicbronson]To add
Bulls 1993 with Jordan 57-25(won championship,rigged series vs knicks,just saying), next year without him 55-27 lost to knicks in 2nd round while pippen was called for phantom foul on davis, if they advaced they would have big chance against indiana to go even to the finals.
Celtics 1969 with Russel 48-34(won championship), next year without him 34-48 didn't even enter the playoffs
Lakers 1973 with Chamberlain 60-22 lost in nba finals, next year without him 47-35, lost in the first round
Bucks 1974 with Robertson 59-23 lost in the finals, next year without him 38-44 didn't enter playoffs
Celtics 1988 with Larry Bird 57-25, lost in conference finals
Next year without him 42-40 lost 3-0 in the first round
Lakers 1991 with Magic 57-25 lost in nba finals, next year without him 43-39 lost 3-1 in the first round
And many of these were cause players were old and got injured, not in their prime because they wanted to try to play some other sports and betray their team.
And now when you see other great players impact you realize that the idea of wanting to prove how they can do it without michael and that they were playing above their limits doesn't really make sense.[/QUOTE]
:cheers: good post.
jordan still goat tho
Re: Why did the bulls still win 55 games without jordan?
[QUOTE=tragicbronson]I am not stan, just want to make things clear.
And you show your lack of knowledge but i am used to it when it comes to Jordan fanatics.
Next year he comes back, they play without grant and they lose 4-2 in the second round. 4-3 in the second round year before without him and next year with him they lose 4-2. :biggums:[/QUOTE]
Im not a jordan fanatic btw, I respect your opinion but I mean in 95 the bulls were 34-31 without him and when he came back they went 13-4 with him, and this wasn't a full seasoned mj aswell, if he had played the whole season u don't feel that they would have a good chance at beating that Orlando team? And they were an MJ assist away to Luc Longely in Game 6 of the ECSF, that was blown layup dunk by Longely from extending that series to 7. And then the following year he lead them to 72 wins. And then in 98 when pippen was out mj led the team to a 24-11 win record before he returned, and carried the team in the postseason when scottie was hurt. Not to mention he got the bulls to the ECFs twice in his earlier years with a worse pippen and grant that weren't really stars.
And my first post wasn't really directed to you, it was mainly to some other stans that posted before you, I thought you brought up some good points about those other legends and how their teams went without them. Those bulls teams were stacked and were very good without him :cheers:
Re: Why did the bulls still win 55 games without jordan?
[QUOTE=Warfan]Im not a jordan fanatic btw, I respect your opinion but I mean in 95 the bulls were 34-31 without him and when he came back they went 13-4 with him, and this wasn't a full seasoned mj aswell, if he had played the whole season u don't feel that they would have a good chance at beating that Orlando team? And they were an MJ assist away to Luc Longely in Game 6 of the ECSF, that was blown layup dunk by Longely from extending that series to 7. And then the following year he lead them to 72 wins. And then in 98 when pippen was out mj led the team to a 24-11 win record before he returned, and carried the team in the postseason when scottie was hurt. Not to mention he got the bulls to the ECFs twice in his earlier years with a worse pippen and grant that weren't really stars.
And my first post wasn't really directed to you, it was mainly to some other stans that posted before you, I thought you brought up some good points about those other legends and how their teams went without them. Those bulls teams were stacked and were very good without him :cheers:[/QUOTE]
Glad you understand, btw next after they lost to orlando they got Rodman who had huge impact on their record and play overall, you overlooked that. I don't want to be missunderstood, i think Jordan is one of the best players ever but not clearly the best, imagine he won that season he came back from baseball episode, imagine the hype and the media. As i said, i agree that he is up there with other great players but not that untouchable how everybody thinks. It bothers me that oftenly even if you try to bring up conversation about who is the best player you are not allowed to compare anyone to Jordan.
Re: Why did the bulls still win 55 games without jordan?
[QUOTE=tragicbronson]Glad you understand, btw next after they lost to orlando they got Rodman who had huge impact on their record and play overall, you overlooked that. I don't want to be missunderstood, i think Jordan is one of the best players ever but not clearly the best, imagine he won that season he came back from baseball episode, imagine the hype and the media. As i said, i agree that he is up there with other great players but not that untouchable how everybody thinks. It bothers me that oftenly even if you try to bring up conversation about who is the best player you are not allowed to compare anyone to Jordan.[/QUOTE]
:cheers: yeah and if I remember correctly grant got injured in the 96 series so it definitely helped them win aswell. I have Jordan as the GOAT but if someone said wilt or kareem or Russell was the GOAT I would respect their opinion, and wouldn't say that its a crazy claim at all. I usually don't bother with lists and just try to enjoy greatness when I see it, unlike many people on ISH who just try to put down others to prop up their idol.
Re: Why did the bulls still win 55 games without jordan?
Same reason Heat would get to the finals without Lebron. That team was the 1st or 2nd most stacked team of all time next to the cHeat.:facepalm
Re: Why did the bulls still win 55 games without jordan?
Scottie Pippen elevated his game in the regular season, and I think he finished top 3 in MVP Voting. Horace grant averaged 15/11 on 53 FG% in the regular season. BJ Armstrong also averaged career high in ppg, and he was voted by fans in his first all star game.
[img]http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/bulls/photos/pippen2_100812.jpg[/img]
Re: Why did the bulls still win 55 games without jordan?
teams overachieve all the time. it happens every year in every sport. the 94 bulls are one of them. it also helps that the team is a group of strong minded championship experienced veterans with something to prove, led by one of the GOAT coaches. they overachieved that year, and just like most overachieving teams, they get exposed in the playoffs. the bulls ended up losing in the second round.
the following year they came back down to earth and played to more realistic expectations. before jordan came back late in the season, the bulls were fighting for the 5th playoff spot in the east. when jordan came back, they went something like 13-4 the rest of the way. all of the sudden they went from middle of the pack to the hottest team in the league. from pretender to contender, even with jordan being rusty and having lost a step. but again, playoffs expose your weaknesses and reveal who you truly are. a rusty(athletically and mentally) jordan can get it done in the reg season. but in the playoffs, you have to be at the top of your game. the bulls lost in 6 to the magic in the second round with jordan uncharacteristically having multiple brain farts down the stretch of game 6. you can expect that kind of stuff kobe and lebron, but not jordan. it was really the only time post '89 that i can remember going, "holy *hit jordan. wtf was that?" but we all know how he bounced back and the rest is history.
Re: Why did the bulls still win 55 games without jordan?
They were able to win 55 games without Jordan because the team was really good. Only on ISH is it bad to have a good team around a great player lol.
Re: Why did the bulls still win 55 games without jordan?
1993 Bulls with Jordan = 57 wins
1994 Bulls w/o Jordan = 55 wins
GOAT gonna GOAT!! :bowdown: