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[QUOTE=raiderfan19]It doesn't effect the ranking or piece itself but Dallas traded for finley and Nash(obviously in different deals) they didn't sign with dallas[/QUOTE]
Thank you.
[QUOTE=raiderfan19]How is Marion so low???[/QUOTE]
How much higher would you have him?
The exact rankings aren't real important when you get this high up, more trying to group them with similarly skilled/accomplished players.
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[SIZE="4"][B][FONT="Book Antiqua"]#157 Latrell Fontaine Sprewell
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[B]Tier Classification:[/B] Winning Pieces: Momentary Elite
[B]Years Played (Quality Prime Seasons):[/B] 13 (9)
[B]Primary Role(s):[/B] #1 on bad teams/#2 on playoff teams/#3 on contenders
[B]Prime Averages: [/B] 19-4-4-1 on 43/34/80
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[SIZE="4"][B][FONT="Book Antiqua"]#155 Arnold D. Risen
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[B]Tier Classification:[/B] Winning Pieces: Momentary Elite
[B]Years Played (Quality Prime Seasons):[/B] 13 (10)
[B]Primary Role(s):[/B] #2 on contenders
[B]Prime Averages: [/B] 14/11/2 on 38/70
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[SIZE="3"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"]-[SIZE="6"]R[/SIZE]isen’s career dates back to 1945 in the NBL. He played three seasons in the league, earned all-league honors in 1947 and came to the NBA with the Royals for the 1948-49 season. A skilled big man with enough toughness for the time and enough grace for the post-shot clock era where he became an effective back-up center playing into his mid-thirties. It was with the Royals in the early NBA days that Risen really made his mark. Led by Bob Davies the Royals were the toughest competition for the juggernaut that was the Minneapolis Lakers and their center George Mikan. Mikan was taller than Risen and outweighed him by at least fifty pounds, but Risen was faster and though he could not stop Mikan, he could make him work on both ends of the court. The Royals lost to the Lakers in 1949 and were upset by the Pistons in 1950, but in 1951 a leg injury to Mikan opened the door for the Royals and they walked right past the Lakers into the NBA Finals. There against the Knicks, Risen played some of the finest basketball of his career. Unlike to gigantic Mikan, the Knicks had a pair on 6’6” centers in Harry Gallatin and Sweetwater Clifton. Risen took advantage. He scored 22 points, grabbed 15 rebounds and dished out 5 assists as the Royals routed the Knicks in game one. Game two more of the same 19 points for Risen, 24 for Davies and another easy Rochester win. Game three: Risen goes for 27 and 17, he’s averaging 23 and 16 for the series and the Royals are one win away from the title. The Knicks battled back valiantly, forced a game seven, but there Rochester was too much. Risen had 24 points and 13 rebounds in the deciding game and Rochester won 79-75.
Risen would average 22 points 16 rebounds and 3 assists for the series, remarkable numbers considering the teams were averaging only 80 ppg. Following the Championship season Risen would make four consecutive all-star teams for Rochester who remained competitive, but never returned to the Finals. In 1955, with the Royals coming off a losing season in the new shot clock era, Risen was sold to the Boston Celtics. After starting for one season, Risen moved to the bench once Bill Russell arrived. As a back-up, he won his second ring when Boston raised the trophy in 1957. He played sparingly in 1958 and after the Celtics lost in the 1958 Finals, Risen retired. They called him stilts for his gangly appearance and seeming inability to gain weight, but Risen was considered an enforcer in the early league. Bob Cousy describes him as “A sweet man with a surprisingly vicious competitive side.”
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[SIZE="4"][B][FONT="Book Antiqua"]#154 Rajon Rondo
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[B]Tier Classification:[/B] Winning Pieces: Momentary Elite
[B]Years Played (Quality Prime Seasons):[/B] 8 (4)
[B]Primary Role(s):[/B] #2/#3 on contenders/#4 on Champion
[B]Prime Averages: [/B] 13-5-10-2 on 49/61
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[SIZE="3"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"]-[SIZE="6"]M[/SIZE]aybe it takes a guy who sees the world differently to play the game the way Rajon Rondo does. Or maybe Rondo is just another one in the long line of enigmatic personalities which seem to find their way into the NBA more often than you might expect. Basketball is so appealing to many for it’s unique nuances and the delicate balance that characterize it. It is a game on individual and team skill both constantly connected to each other and without understanding the balance and how to thrive within it, it will without discrimination conquer you. The quiet, thoughtful Rondo, who can come off as aloof or in his own world, thrives under such a construct. From the time his career began, thrust into the spotlight in his second year, an unproven entity amongst a hall of fame trio hellbent on a Championship, Rondo has refused to be predictable. It seemed likely that he would fail as point guard in Boston, at least initially. There was much debate about which veteran point guard would be acquired to replace him. But he held on to the reigns of the big Green machine, even when Sam Cassell was brought aboard, and played a crucial role in Boston’s winning of it’s 17th Championship, a full 22 years after the previous banner was raised. From there, with the luxury of having those three great players around, Rondo’s game was given room t grow and he took off.
He went from 11-5 in the title season to 12-8 and an all-defensive second team selection the next year. In the playoffs, without Garnett, Rondo may have been the Celtics best player averaging 17-10-10-3 in a performance that drew comparisons to a young Magic Johnson. Then 14-10 and a first team all-defensive pick in 2010. He made the all-star team and had another outstanding playoffs; 16-6-9-2 en route to the NBA Finals. In 2011 he made his second straight all-star game, set a career high 11.2 assists per game and led the league in steals. 2012 saw Rondo win the assist title at nearly 12 a game, make the all-NBA team and finish eighth in the MVP voting. In the playoffs he demonstrated why, playing hurt and leading the Celtics to the Eastern Conference Finals for the third time in five seasons. 17-7-12-2 and shooting nearly 50% from the field and 70% the line. Best of his career. That’s really the last we’ve seen of Rondo though. Injuries and a transition stage for the Celtics have kept him out of the lineup for almost 100 games the last two seasons. When he returns he will be a key piece, either as trade bait or as the point guard for the Celtics team that hunts for title number eighteen. He is the strangest type of player, team mates love playing with him, but rarely love being around him off the court. He is a leader by example, but not one to say the right thing at the right time very often. His former coach Doc Rivers explains: "Not everyone understand it, but he has a gift, He has vision and feel, not only for what's going on, but for the team. He's a quarterback or great catcher. He has the ability to sense not only that moment, but the plays or stuff we should be running. He just has an incredible basketball IQ. It's like having another coach on the floor."
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[QUOTE=G.O.A.T]Thanks, one day. I want to do a real good job though, I don't want to produce bad art. I'd have to stop critiquing everything.
I love seeing so many of you guys from the first thread five years ago popping in to say hello. Wish people like you were around here posting content and comments more often.
Thanks again for the compliment and support and rest assured that until the day you do me the honor of buying my book, all my scraps and half thoughts will be filtered for bull[COLOR="Navy"]s[/COLOR]hit here on ish.[/QUOTE]
Apologies. My own passion project (graphic novel) takes away most of the free time I used to have for posting here more often, especially in your old top 25 position player threads. :cheers:
[QUOTE=NuggetsFan]Baron Davis was an animal in those playoffs. Warriors were the 8th seed, Mavs 1st seed. That Warriors team completely shit on the Mavs season. Dirk got the MVP, Mavs won the most games in the entire league and than get bounced in the 1st round :oldlol:
GS's crowd was ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
That's what happens when you have the worst coach in the nba.
As for how high I'd have Marion goat, hes got to be in the top 100 and at the very least above Ron freaking artest.
Some Shawn Marion career notes. Made more threes than Steve Kerr, Matt bonner and Jose Calderon(this won't be true anymore for Calderon after next year). More rebounds than Larry bird, Dwight howard(this wont be true after next year either) Dave debuscher, bob Lanier and dirk. Top 40(35) all time in rebounds. More steals than Eddie jones, Ron artest and doc rivers. Top 20(17)all time in steals. More blocks than Tyson chandler, Karl Malone or Bob mcadoo. Soon to be top 50 all time(51 needs 20 for 50) Scored more points than Steve Nash, Tiny archibald, Joe Johnson, bob cousy, Chris webber and Kevin mchale. Top 75 all time(75, and jet is 74 and Nash is 76 interestingly) if he stays healthy next year and or plays another year after that, he'll pass some BIG names on the scoring list.
So he's top 20 in steals, top 40 in rebounds, top 50 in blocks and top 75 in scoring but he's only in the 180s all time?
[QUOTE=raiderfan19]That's what happens when you have the worst coach in the nba.
As for how high I'd have Marion goat, hes got to be in the top 100 and at the very least above Ron freaking artest.
Some Shawn Marion career notes. Made more threes than Steve Kerr, Matt bonner and Jose Calderon(this won't be true anymore for Calderon after next year). More rebounds than Larry bird, Dwight howard(this wont be true after next year either) Dave debuscher, bob Lanier and dirk. Top 40(35) all time in rebounds. More steals than Eddie jones, Ron artest and doc rivers. Top 20(17)all time in steals. More blocks than Tyson chandler, Karl Malone or Bob mcadoo. Soon to be top 50 all time(51 needs 20 for 50) Scored more points than Steve Nash, Tiny archibald, Joe Johnson, bob cousy, Chris webber and Kevin mchale. Top 75 all time(75, and jet is 74 and Nash is 76 interestingly) if he stays healthy next year and or plays another year after that, he'll pass some BIG names on the scoring list.
So he's top 20 in steals, top 40 in rebounds, top 50 in blocks and top 75 in scoring but he's only in the 180s all time?[/QUOTE]
It's certainly something to consider. Especially when the information is presented this way.
Of the four factors I consider, Longevity is last behind, Absolute and Extended Peak and Prime Years. However I can say that I did feel like Marion (along with Kenon and Nance, Aguirre and Buck Williams) needed to be up higher after doing these most recent bios from my updated notes.
I have already started regrouping all the players from tier 11-19
I suspect Marion may end around 140 or so...
You would still have him higher, but I wonder if you will change your mind once the rest of the guys around that level are revealed.
Be curious to see what you think as that portion of the list draws nearer. How you stick around and let me know what you think.
Thanks and go Tech!
I think you are the first person who remembers that the raider in my name means red raiders and not Oakland raiders.
I've always seen Marion higher than most because I never thought he was just a Nash creation. Sure the pace helped the numbers but that's been true of alot of guys and he was a 19-11 player 2 years before Nash got there. There just aren't that many people who could have gone 22-12-2-2 with so few turnovers which was his peak along with what should have been all nba defense.
Shawn Marion should not be ranked higher than Mark Aguirre.
.
That seem really low for Rondo to me. Guys who do as much as him in the playoffs deserve a lot more credit than Sprewell or Johnson. Hes averaged 16-7-10 in the playoffs since 09, and has had some all time great games for PGs like his 29-18-13 against cleveland in 10 or 44-8-10 against miami in 12. Guys like that are top 100 to me.
Rondooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!
[QUOTE=magnax1]That seem really low for Rondo to me. Guys who do as much as him in the playoffs deserve a lot more credit than Sprewell or Johnson. Hes averaged 16-7-10 in the playoffs since 09, and has had some all time great games for PGs like his 29-18-13 against cleveland in 10 or 44-8-10 against miami in 12. Guys like that are top 100 to me.[/QUOTE]
Rondo is not top 100 yet. He's not up to par with the Billups or Parkers yet. His last 2 seas9ns have been absent basically.
Can't see him in top 100 over guards like even a Terry Porter yet. Yet.
[B]Good shit :applause: :applause: Not saying I agree with all of it, it would be hard to tell exactly also though, but great work man :applause: Looking forward for the full list.[/B]
I agree with Marion. I'd switch him and Peja.
I agree with my two colleagues above, but I'm a Rondo Stan, haha.
When it comes to passing/vision, he's one of the all-timers (also statistically speaking). And he's not too shabby at rebounding and defense at his position either. His 6th gear come playoffs time was already mentioned.
Great thread. Appreciate the work
How exactly is griffin already ahead of Marion? He has one season of being able to create for himself, something Marion admittedly didn't do, but Marion was a much better defender, shooter at least an equivalent rebounder and he did it for a lot longer.