Jordans getting kicked out of the top 10.............................................

[QUOTE=3ball]Also, the shortened 3-point line made the game more compacted - the defense didn't have to guard 24 feet out, now only 21 feet... that makes a big difference in the overall level of congestion and available spacing - shots are going to be more contested when there is less spacing and/or the defense isn't extended out as far.

From the 50's all the way through the mid-90's, the three-point shot was barely used at all.. These were two-point shooting eras and there was no defensive 3 seconds.. A game of two-pointers is a tougher brand of basketball because there is maximum congestion and no spacing, which results in a very high proportion of attempted shots being contested mid-range shots.

However, in today's game, contested mid-range shots are avoided because they are considered the toughest and lowest efficiency shots to take.. Instead, the 3-point shooting, spacing and defensive 3 seconds have made it is harder for the defense to contest shots, creating more high efficiency situations for today's players to enjoy (open at-rim looks, FT's from less physical play, and 3-pointers).


Experienced fans already know all of the above - but for the new basketball fans that aren't aware of how the game's evolved, see the GIFs below - the difference is obvious - Here is a standard Lebron drive where his 3-point shooters are spacing the floor for him making the paint wide open, and all this is helped by the NBA mandating that defenders stay out of the paint (defensive 3 seconds).

[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Todays_No_Defense_Lack_of_Rim_eb5a1b1afe17e31ce272eb4e3ae0f8e9.gif[/IMG]



Compare that to Wilt's day.. Which one is harder to score in the paint?

[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Paint_Congestion_in_Wilts_Era__e5cc5559f5ecbd15aefec46a22dd4b99.gif[/IMG]


No floor-spreading + No defensive 3 seconds = Packed paint/mid-range area and more contested shots (2-ptrs of course).

[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Michael_Jordan_Eurostep_5cc9d1bfc6064cfecf8deaef003568c2.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Exactly. Repped :applause:

These dudes are doing mental gymnastics trying to twist the NBA trying to EXPLICITLY open up the game for more scoring opportunities for wing players into it somehow being harder to score? How does clearing out the lane for drives make it [I]harder[/I] to score?

The gifs just prove that point. Now compare that to Wade's drives vs a top 5 defense in the Pistons who were running 'zone' after Flip Saunders took over in '06:

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDdlEFMIA5Y[/url]

Then compare it to Jordan in the '91 playoffs vs the Knicks:

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=330HeLlv52U[/url]

[IMG]http://i.minus.com/iHwd5KuplF3Ml.gif[/IMG]

Bulls had to beat a full court press, Jordan was doubled/trapped on the wing, beat that... was immediately trapped baseline, beat that... then had a 7 foot shotblocker waiting for him in the lane... Just to get 2 points... but what Wade was facing in '06 vs the Pistons 'zone' where he was bee-lining uninterrupted to the basket is tougher? :biggums:

Yaaaaaawn.

Call me when someone averages 30 ppg+ for their career (10+ seasons) and I'll be impressed.

There's some 12 year old today who will score more points career wise than Kobe and LeBron too, so what? PER game is what it's all about in the NBA. Total just indicates longevity which no one gives a sh*t about.

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Exactly. Repped :applause:

These dudes are doing mental gymnastics trying to twist the NBA trying to EXPLICITLY open up the game for more scoring opportunities for wing players into it somehow being harder to score? How does clearing out the lane for drives make it [I]harder[/I] to score?

The gifs just prove that point. Now compare that to Wade's drives vs a top 5 defense in the Pistons who were running 'zone' after Flip Saunders took over in '06:

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDdlEFMIA5Y[/url]

Then compare it to Jordan in the '91 playoffs vs the Knicks:

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=330HeLlv52U[/url]

[IMG]http://i.minus.com/iHwd5KuplF3Ml.gif[/IMG]

Bulls had to beat a full court trap, Jordan was doubled/trapped on the wing, beat that... was immediately trapped baseline, beat that... then had a 7 foot shotblocker waiting for him in the lane... Just to get 2 points... but what Wade was facing in '06 vs the Pistons 'zone' where he was bee-lining uninterrupted to the basket is tougher? :biggums:[/QUOTE]

You're repping someone who isn't even making the posts...

[IMG]http://proplayerinsiders.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/but-thats-none-of-my2.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]You're repping someone who isn't even making the posts...

[IMG]http://proplayerinsiders.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/but-thats-none-of-my2.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

:coleman:

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]You just made it :lol - the league wasn't tailored to perimeter scoring in the 90s, as evidenced by what happened in Jordan's absence. Then when the rule changes happened in the 00s, all of a sudden perimeter who had been drafted in the mid 90s, who were active when old Jordan was still winning scoring titles all of a sudden start scoring in bunches.

But I'm sure that was just a coincidence.



Teams/players were doing all that long before the 3 sec. rule was instated. All that rule does is open up the lane for easy drives like you saw in that DWade ECF vid I posted.




:rolleyes:

Do you even know what Synergy is? Clearly you don't :roll:



The irony :oldlol:

If I had a nickel for every time an idiot here mistook man defense with help for 'zone'. And the Pistons had their own set of defensive schemes for Jordan, don't know if you've heard of it.



You see?! Exactly what I was just talking about. You owe me a nickel :oldlol:

The Larry Brown Pistons didn't play a single possession of zone and they clowned Kobe and the Lakers in the finals. Flip Saunders was one of the few coaches in the league known for actually using zone schemes:

[INDENT][B]They've been so open that Saunders waited only one day before running the proud Pistons through some zone concepts[/B]. He sees too much length, quickness and athleticism on Detroit's front line to resist the idea, even though he knows that [B][COLOR="Red"]the Pistons of Brown vintage were adamant that real men don't zone.[/COLOR][/B]

"Zone might be a four-letter word around here," Saunders said, "but they've been pretty receptive to it. I think it's one of those things that, if we play it and we're successful with it, they'll wrap their arms around it a little bit more."

[url]http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/trainingcamp05/columns/story?id=2190851[/url][/INDENT]

You dudes don't even know what the hell you're watching :oldlol:




[B][U]Bulls Championship Years APG[/U][/B]

[B]'91: 27 APG ([COLOR="Red"]95.6 Pace[/COLOR])
'92: 27.8 APG ([COLOR="Red"]94.4 Pace[/COLOR])
'93: 26 APG ([COLOR="Red"]92.5 Pace[/COLOR])
'96: 24.8 APG ([COLOR="Red"]91.1 Pace[/COLOR])
'97: 26.1 APG ([COLOR="Red"]90 Pace[/COLOR])
'98: 23.8 APG ([COLOR="Red"]89 Pace[/COLOR])[/B]

For reference, everyone was salivating over the Spurs passing/ball movement this year. They averaged [B]25.2 APG[/B] (led the league) playing at a [B][COLOR="Red"]Pace of 95[/COLOR][/B].

Bulls usually averaged more assists per game, playing in a slower pace... but they were running isolation for Jordan every time. Because that's what the triangle offense means- run isolation plays :oldlol:




Then why were all the top scorers in the league not counting Jordan all Cs + PFs? :wtf:

Guys like Kobe, Iverson, Ray, and even VC and Pierce by '98 were all doing their thing in the league. Yet they didn't become the top scorers until AFTER the rule changes. Hell Bean, Iverson, Ray, Nash- all guys who were drafted in 1996 didn't have their career best PPG until AFTER the summer of '05 rule changes. When has that ever happened in NBA History where several perimeter players from the same draft class ALL had their career best scoring season [I]10 years[/I] after they were drafted, some of them in their 30s? :biggums:

Say When.[/QUOTE]
Ether:lol

Don do you have the quotes of all the coaches talking about Zone and man defense. You posted it back in 09 i think of Larry Brown,Pat Riley, Thibs etc... Talking about defensive concepts.

[QUOTE=3ball]

Also, the 1997 and 1998 Jazz were very good

[B]really?

stockton and karl were old as mummy dust
magic bird and isiah used them for puppets , , jordan too
mike's timing could not have been better he simply fiested on their leftovers

thru no fault of his own of course . . . just the way it fell[/B]


In the 1998 Western Conference Finals, the Jazz swept Shaq's 4 all-star Lakers (Shaq, Eddie Jones, Van Exel, Kobe... with Elden Campbell, Robert Horry, Rick Rox, Derek Fisher)

[B]it's not like shaq was a champion or anything . . . that's on him[/B]


The 1996 Sonics are criminally underrated - they had a legit big 3 - Prime Payton and Kemp.. and then Detlef Schrempf

[B]ok[/B]


I'll take a prime Kemp, Payton and Schrempf over an old Duncan, Parker and Ginobili any day.


[B]hahaha[/B]

[/QUOTE]


and your next job would have been what?

[QUOTE=juju151111]Don do you have the quotes of all the coaches talking about Zone and man defense. You posted it back in 09 i think of Larry Brown,Pat Riley, Thibs etc... Talking about defensive concepts.[/QUOTE]

The original thread:

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136831[/url]


Updated articles I found recently:

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=345176[/url]

:cheers:

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Exactly. Repped :applause:

These dudes are doing mental gymnastics trying to twist the NBA trying to EXPLICITLY open up the game for more scoring opportunities for wing players into it somehow being harder to score? How does clearing out the lane for drives make it [I]harder[/I] to score?

The gifs just prove that point. Now compare that to Wade's drives vs a top 5 defense in the Pistons who were running 'zone' after Flip Saunders took over in '06:

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDdlEFMIA5Y[/url]

Then compare it to Jordan in the '91 playoffs vs the Knicks:

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=330HeLlv52U[/url]

[IMG]http://i.minus.com/iHwd5KuplF3Ml.gif[/IMG]

Bulls had to beat a full court press, Jordan was doubled/trapped on the wing, beat that... was immediately trapped baseline, beat that... then had a 7 foot shotblocker waiting for him in the lane... Just to get 2 points... but what Wade was facing in '06 vs the Pistons 'zone' where he was bee-lining uninterrupted to the basket is tougher? :biggums:[/QUOTE]

:bowdown:

Don etherin' bitches left and right. :cheers:

[QUOTE=3ball]Also, the shortened 3-point line made the game more compacted - the defense didn't have to guard 24 feet out


[B]yep

off the dribble pullups and screen curls are threes now

the highlight sequences . . . . miss me mane[/B][/QUOTE]



everybody makes plays

DonDadda59 killin' these ******

a cripple can't be on pace for anything

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]You just made it :lol - the league wasn't tailored to perimeter scoring in the 90s

[B]that could not be further from the truth
iso coverage only having to deal with a baby check , , please
mike would take that all day over a league filled with bad boy like teams

you act like big men were defending jordan , , where were they
on the thousands of mid range pullups or baseline fallaways
you may can find a contest or two but for the most part
he was doing that against inferior comp team n player[/B]


as evidenced by what happened in Jordan's absence


[B]no

his absence exposed the lack of talent around the league

that shit was beyond horrible save a few battle of the giants[/B]


Then when the rule changes happened in the 00s, all of a sudden perimeter who had been drafted in the mid 90s, who were active when old Jordan was still winning scoring titles all of a sudden start scoring in bunches.

But I'm sure that was just a coincidence.


[B]who were the big men challenging for scoring titles at that time[/B]


the 3 sec. rule

[B]does absolutely nuthin :rolleyes: [/B]


Do you even know what Synergy is? Clearly you don't :roll:


[B]no but i'm sure it has to do with lab work

to which i'm surely not interested[/B]


If I had a nickel for every time an idiot here mistook man defense with help for 'zone'. And the Pistons had their own set of defensive schemes for Jordan, don't know if you've heard of it.


[B]you and me both because that's all i've heard from jordan fans
was how he was the most double-teamed player in history[/B]

:oldlol:


The Larry Brown Pistons didn't play a single possession of zone and they clowned Kobe and the Lakers in the finals.


[B]you have to be kidding me

they openly stated they were playing zone saying the refs wouldn't call
it on every play in fear it would slow the game to a grinding halt

of course bad floor spacing contributed but for the most part they shadowed
kobe like dark knights on top of the obvious n constant hacks without calls

it's not like the league was in his corner with the image breaker and all that
not to mention the L not wanting the lakers to win their 4th title in 5 years

it happened , , he took the L and kept it movin

i'm sure you enjoyed that huh?


uh-huh what you hated was kobe got a lil taste of iso ball when playing
with shaq and hung up jordan-like numbers - 30/7/6 -- surely against
your belief that he would ever come close to doing such a thing

and won titles
[/B][/QUOTE]


amirite

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]
Then why were all the top scorers in the league Cs + PFs?

[B]because the perimeter players couldn't play a lick of ball
you didn't have combo guards like you have today i.e.,[/B]


Guys like Kobe, Iverson, Ray, and even VC and Pierce[/QUOTE]


who were the equivalents to these guys in the jordan era

randomly

i don't know if it was gs or minn but somebody missed the boat with
spreewell . . . . . they could have been first to that combo market

whoever was playing the point when he avgd like 6-7 assists they ass
woulda been gone . . . cassell or tim . . spree shoulda had that rock

you talk ish about amateur ball but you ain't going no where else to find
kawhi leonard play a kyle anderson friday evening , durant on saturday
morning , , , , kevin love at noon , , , lebron that evening

and championship play all day sunday

baller's dream bruh

coaches too


lastly

can you imagine stephen curry as strictly a shooting guard , , his dad
didn't either nor have many others . . . they walk into the gym and
if they're son is not on the rock , , he's out . . they not going for
their son bustin off screens only to see wbrook pull from dirty


dem shitts is thru mane , , , and thankfully so is this