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[QUOTE=3ball]sportjames got you there i think navy - if they can't beat MJ heads-up, then they are highly unlikely to do better than he could against another team.
and to assume they would, is to make the unlikely, against-the-odds assumptive leap.[/QUOTE]
lol, random change of the subject.
Let's just say I agree. Now go back to the dumb point you were making.
[QUOTE=PJR]It's an absolute fact that it's more difficult to score in today's NBA than it was back in the 90s.
All the rule changes from 2005 on were nothing more than to counter balance defensive systems like the aforementioned. It's all evened out now.[/QUOTE]
MJ's last season in the NBA... 1997-1998.
League averaged 95.6 ppg on a .478 eFG%
THIS season...
League average is 100.5 ppg on a .499 eFG%
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS][B]MJ's last season in the NBA..[/B]. 1997-1998.
League averaged 95.6 ppg on a .478 eFG%
THIS season...
League average is 100.5 ppg on a .499 eFG%[/QUOTE]
what?
[QUOTE=navy]
Let's just say I agree. Now go back to the dumb point you were making.
[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/573113292e852dcb8f5fe242c53e3982.gif[/IMG]
while i can provide literally thousands of plays like this (because players were allowed to camp in the paint in previous eras), it is impossible to find even ONE play from today's game where players are camping under the rim and packing the paint like the GIF above.
Also, the GIF above shows that being allowed to camp in the lane meant [I]swinging the ball[/I] was less effective in previous eras.. Defenders barely had to move when the ball was swung - they could remain stationary and just turn their head and body like a swivel chair.
But in today's game with defensive 3 seconds, players must stay out of the lane... So when the ball is swung, defenders must move from outside the lane on one side, to outside the lane on the other side - this is much easier for the offense to face than defenders getting to camp in the lane and merely swivel-chair when the ball is swung.
since swinging the ball wasn't as effective in previous eras when players could camp in the lane, teams [I]didn't[/I] swing the ball as much - and overall, teams didn't rely on passing to get open shots as much, since passing and cutting lanes didn't exist in previous eras like they do today, now that spacing and rule changes have "opened up the game".
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[QUOTE=3ball][IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/573113292e852dcb8f5fe242c53e3982.gif[/IMG]
while i can provide literally thousands of plays like this (because players were allowed to camp in the paint in previous eras), it is impossible to find even ONE play from today's game where players are camping under the rim and packing the paint like the GIF above.
Also, the GIF above shows that being allowed to camp in the lane meant [I]swinging the ball[/I] was less effective in previous eras.. Defenders barely had to move when the ball was swung - they could remain stationary and just turn their head and body like a swivel chair.
But in today's game with defensive 3 seconds, players must stay out of the lane... So when the ball is swung, defenders must move from outside the lane on one side, to outside the lane on the other side - this is much easier for the offense to face than defenders getting to camp in the lane and merely swivel-chair when the ball is swung.
since swinging the ball wasn't as effective in previous eras when players could camp in the lane, teams [I]didn't[/I] swing the ball as much - and overall, teams didn't rely on passing to get open shots as much, since passing and cutting lanes didn't exist in previous eras like they do today, now that spacing and rule changes have "opened up the game".
.[/QUOTE]
Sorry 3ball, but most of what you said is not true.
Yes, the paint can at times be more crowded in past eras, but it was due to offensive players converging around the paint because offensive philosophy dictated this.
You can find GIFS of anything. Incompetence. Bloopers. Great plays. You can find this at any level of basketball. You can find players driving to the hoop with a wide open lane, even in international ball which employs a full blown zone. It just depends on the circumstance. It's not proof of anything.
Just tonight. I saw parts of the Mem/Mia game when Carter posted up, and 3 players converge on the strong side with 2 players doubling him, and another in the paint while guarding no one. There are many examples in most games.
Yes, you have a point that Illegal Defenses in past eras where not always called consistently, and teams often times got away with it, but the rule is clearer today, and teams have been forced to employ more 3 point shootin than ever.
I like the game better today. It's better to watch and the level is higher than ever, in my opinion.
:facepalm
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[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/8c58ee0eb321312606e61f07b74f8312.gif[/IMG]
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[QUOTE]
You can find GIFS of anything.
[/QUOTE]
so why can't anyone point me to a play from today's game where defenders are camping under the rim indefinitely like previous eras?
[quote]
i like the game better today. It's better to watch and the level is higher than ever, in my opinion.
[/QUOTE]
so you like less scoring - today's game employs a slowed down brand of basketball to set up all the 3-pointers and spacing... every motion throughout the game looks pre-planned, predictable and choreographed - the spacing looks organized and marching-band like, as opposed to the free flowing, instinctive and random movements of previous eras.
and it's impossible for the level to be higher if 27% of shots taken are 3-pointers... that means [I]at least[/I] 27% of all shots are play-finishing (minus pull-up 3's which are much less frequent).
and the 3-pointers create incredible spacing that coupled with defensive 3 seconds and the banning of physical play, turns the game into a mostly play-finishing, which is NOT "high level"... instead, it looks more choreographed and pre-planned, not quick-reacting and instinctive like previous eras.
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[QUOTE=3ball]so why can't anyone point me to a play from today's game where defenders are camping under the rim indefinitely like previous eras?
so you like less scoring - today's game employs a slowed down brand of basketball to set up all the 3-pointers and spacing... every motion throughout the game looks pre-planned, predictable and choreographed - the spacing looks organized and marching-band like, as opposed to the free flowing, instinctive and random movements of previous eras.
and it's impossible for the level to be higher if 27% of shots taken are 3-pointers... that means [I]at least[/I] 27% of all shots are play-finishing (minus pull-up 3's which are much less frequent).
and the 3-pointers create incredible spacing that coupled with defensive 3 seconds and the banning of physical play, turns the game into a mostly play-finishing, which is NOT "high level"... instead, it looks more choreographed and pre-planned, not quick-reacting and instinctive like previous eras.
.[/QUOTE]
I admit it. I'm an older poster and I can't do GiFS. So sue me.:lol
There really are a ton of examples everyday.
Open your mind. I used to be like you. As the 80s turned to the 90s, I struggled to accept Jordan and his Bulls, and how they seem to have diminished the 80s era, but as I got older, I accepted Jordan and had to concede the obvious.
I look at today's game, and I see great shooting(better than ever), unselfish play, and more intelligent defense. I respect your opinion and there is a case to be made that the 90s, in particular, had the roughest defense I have ever seen, and I have been watching NBA hoops since 1981.
[QUOTE=Dr.J4ever]
There really are a ton of examples everyday... but i can't do GIFs.. sue me
[/quote]
this is weak and proves my point - just point me to the time in a youtube where defenders are camping under the rim like the previous GIF's.
[quote]
Open your mind.
[/QUOTE]
there is nothing to open my mind [I]about[/I] - all i have to do is look at the [I]actual[/I] changes to the rulebook.
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the new rule in 2005 states that players must be [url=http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html][u]"[I]within armslength[/I][/u]"[/url] of an opponent to remain in the paint.
the original 3 seconds rule from 1982 states that a player can remain in the paint if their man is [url=http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html]"[u][I]adjacent to the paint[/I][/u]"[/url].
"[I]adjacent[/I]" means outside of the paint, and outside of the paint is almost always out of "[I]armslength[/I]" reach.
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here - i'll post both 3 seconds rules in the next post:
Today's defensive 3 seconds rule requires defenders to stay out of the lane, unless they are within "armslength" of an opponent.. [url]http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html[/url]
The original rule from 1982 said a defender could stay in the lane if his man was "adjacent to the paint": ([url]http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html[/url])
[INDENT][B]1981-82[/B]
"[I]Defender on post player is allowed in defensive three-second area (A post player is any player adjacent to paint)"[/I].[/INDENT]
So just by substituting the rule's own parenthetical reference, the rule translates EXACTLY to: "Defender on player adjacent to the paint is allowed in defensive 3 second area."
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/b209aeddf6bfaaa9fcaed8eea3c72c65.gif[/IMG]
[b]in this clip, Klay Thompson's dad (#43 in the middle of lane) would get a tech after 3 seconds in today's game because his man is out of "armslength".... but back then, he was legal because his man was "adjacent to the paint", which was the only requirement at the time - as you can see, "adjacent to the paint" (outside the paint) is out of "armslength" reach... also, notice how there is no need for Thompson to tippy-toe in and out of the paint.
[/B]
in previous eras, guys didn't have to worry about staying out of the lane or tippy-toeing - the 3 seconds rule was very simple back then: as long as their man was "adjacent to the paint", defenders could stay in the lane... so usually, they could camp in the lane for the entire possession because the paint is huge, and "adjacent to the paint" covers a ton of ground... Furthermore, "adjacent to the paint" could mean right next to the paint, a few feet outside the paint, or all the way out to the 3-point line - [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10695139&postcount=1][u]defenders routinely camped in the paint while their man was behind the 3-point line[/u][/url].
contrastingly, today's rule makes sure defenders can physically touch their man to stay in the lane, by requiring defenders be within "armslength" of an opponent - since players that are "adjacent to the paint", or [I]outside[/I] the paint, are OUT of armslength reach to defenders [I]inside[/I] the paint, players in today's game are not allowed to stay in the lane if their man is outside the paint.
Exactly... this was a huge advantage for 80s-90s scorers... allowed you to have many one-on-one situations.... I mean literally speaking, like if you faced your man up and looked behind him there was no wall there behind ready to contest & take charges, you blew by your man and it was over, defenders could only then run in to help/contest the easy basket which is a whole bit harder...
Illegal defense was a bit different to say the least....
...and while fans think handchecking made it tougher for players to score, i think it actually HELPED if you were a bigger/stronger guy, why? Because you as an offensive player were allowed to counter that physically with your own hands & body aswell, you could get away with many more elbow/off-hand push ofs, body riding and you could slap the defenders arms away from your vicinity (like Jordan used to do alot).... so if you were strong/athletic (and smart) as Jordan no guy at your position was really at an advantage....
Jordan was great, but this indeed helped alot....
3ball? What the hell are you talking about.... In the 90s, teams had to actually defend every player on the court unless they sent a hard double-team.... today you are allowed to amplify your entire roster on one player and get away with it.... [url]http://www.sbnation.com/2014/3/25/5542838/nba-rules-changes-lebron-james-michael-jordan[/url]
[QUOTE=navy]
Let's just say I agree. Now go back to the dumb point you were making.
[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/10f1c13acb043d8be838b7cd90e5c5fd.gif[/IMG]
under today's rules, you can bring Ibaka from the weakside over to the strong side where lebron is, but he must come [I]all the way over[/I] so he is outside the lane - this leaves the weakside a man down and vulnerable to easy ball movement and assists to that side of the floor.
It should be noted that the setup shown in the GIF above (where defenders are tippy-toeing in and out of the lane) [i]is the common defensive setup in this spot[/i], as shown below again..
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/8cfb1f5cd6acc974960d916586e49b4a.gif[/IMG]
Otoh, the setup shown below from [I]previous[/I] eras was superior, since defenders were allowed to camp in the lane and could therefore simultaneously defend the weakside while stopping the dribble-penetrator at the rim.
[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/c27a7589bc4681278938f85dbb781f40.gif[/IMG]
call this cherry-picking if you want - but this type of example is standard and there are thousands more, whereas it's impossible to find REVERSE examples where previous era paint defense is worse than today's.
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