Printable View
Nice scientific approach....:facepalm Did you maybe think for a second, even 2 that, perhaps [B]one[/B] reason there are less shots per dunk aren't simply due to it being easier or harder but maybe it had more to do with there being far more athletic swing men in this era?
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/oQZoA3G.gif[/IMG]
Ralph and Laz dominating 3ball.:applause:
.
[SIZE="4"][B][U]Comparing Jordan's Dunking Data to Contemporaries[/U][/B]
[/SIZE]
[size="2"][COLOR="Blue"][B][I]We've found 80's and 90's dunk stats from the old Philadelphia 76'er Media Guides (links at bottom of post)[/I][/B] - they show that for the 6 seasons between 1988 and 1993, Jordan had 746 dunks, or an average of about 130 dunks per season.. His high was 158 (1988), and his low was 95 (1993).
By comparison, from 2002-2009 (Kobe's athletic prime and highest volume period), [B]Kobe averaged 65 dunks per season, or half of Jordan's totals[/B]... Tracy McGrady averaged 75 dunks from 2001 to 2005 (his athletic prime and highest volume period)... Vince Carter in his prime, Paul George and [B][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="2"]Westbrook[/SIZE][/COLOR][/B] only get about 50 dunks per season.
Infact, Jordan's dunk totals dwarf every single wing player from this era except Wade, Lebron, and Durant... These are the only players that routinely amass over 100 dunks per year, although none of them have as many dunks over a 6-year period as Jordan - the high for any of these three players is 144, by Lebron this year.... Jordan has a season of 153 dunks and another with 158 dunks, and we don't have data for his biggest dunking year - 1987 when he averaged 37.1ppg on 27 shot attempts (still had 59%TS).
Before anyone says it was easier to dunk in MJ's era - this is statistically false - dunk frequency (shots attempts per dunk) has fluctuated over the years from 1 dunk every 28 shots in 1988 (harder to dunk), to 1 dunk in 20 shots in 1998 (easier to dunk), back down to 1 dunk in 26 shots in 2000 (harder to dunk), back to 1 dunk in 21 shots in 2013 (easier to dunk):[/COLOR]
.
[B]Year[/B]..... [B]Shots[/B]..... [B]Dunks[/B]....[B]Shots Per Dunk[/B]
1988..... 165,439..... 5,727..... 28.89 <------ harder to dunk
1989..... 182,375..... 6,475..... 28.17
1990..... 192,942..... 7,011..... 27.52
1991..... 193,050..... 7,241..... 26.66
1992..... 193,401..... 8,122..... 23.81
1993..... 190,296..... 8,252..... 23.06
1994..... 186,948..... 8,515..... 21.96
1995..... 180,414..... 8,645..... 20.87
1996..... 190,675..... 8,468..... 22.52
1997..... 188,587..... 8,460..... 22.29
1998..... 189,544..... 9,318..... 20.34 <------ easier to dunk
1999..... 113,390..... 4,681..... 24.22
2000..... 195,228..... 8,325..... 23.45
2001..... 191,661..... 7,319..... 26.19 <------ harder to dunk
2002..... 193,256..... 8,439..... 22.90
2003..... 192,096..... 8,265..... 23.24
2004..... 189,805..... 8,120..... 23.38
2005..... 197,640..... 9,150..... 21.60
2006..... 194,310..... 8,640..... 22.49
2007..... 196,080..... 8,310..... 23.60
2008..... 200,490..... 9,270..... 21.63
2009..... 199,050..... 9,360..... 21.27
2010..... 201,000..... 8,790..... 22.87
2011......199,800..... 8,910..... 22.42
2012..... 161,220..... 7,320..... 22.02
2013..... 201,600..... 9,540..... 21.13
2014..... 204,180..... 9,030..... 22.61 <------ easier to dunk
[/size]
[SIZE="4"][B]SG's and SF's with 1 or more seasons of 100+ Dunks[/B]
[/SIZE]
[U]1988 - 1996[/U][COLOR="White"]......................[/COLOR][U]2001 - 2014[/U]
Michael Jordan.................. Kevin Durant
Dominique Wilkins............. Lebron James
Clyde Drexler.................... Dwayne Wade
Scottie Pippen................... Carmelo Anthony
Penny Hardaway................ Kobe Bryant
Grant Hill.......................... Tracy McGrady
Richard Dumas ................. Andre Iguodala
Ron Harper....................... Rudy Gay
Stacy Augmon................... Shawn Marion
Michael Finley................... Richard Jefferson
Jerry Stackhouse
Cedric Ceballos
Derrick McKey
Roy Hinson
Chris Morris
[B][U]Looking at the Dunking Environment Across Eras[/U][/B]
Of course, different eras use different rules and styles of play which affect how easy it is to get a dunk - this will sound crazy, but [I]Lebron dunked over defenders in a chest-to-chest scenario (posters) only 3 times the entire 2014 season - every other time the spacing and defensive 3 seconds prevented defenders from getting to the spot in time[/I]... and most of Lebron's dunks were completely wide open, not even a reach-in or fly-by - the 3-point shooting and floor-spacing creates too much ground and extra space for the defense to cover....
confirm for yourself... here are every single one of Lebron's dunks for the 2014 season - [I]only 3 posters[/I]: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJNe550OrZM[/url]
After you've watched Lebron's dunks, compare that to Jordan's dunks in 1987... [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQH7_BW9hCI&t=2m36s[/url]
RIGHT AWAY you can tell that there's a massive difference - there is no spacing and less room between defenders because the defense is packed-in since they only had to defend 2-pointers.... and shot-blocking big men are camped in the paint awaiting penetrators (rather than today's game where helping on penetration involves scrambling from the three-point line to the paint and then making sure you aren't in there for more than 3 seconds).
The lack of spacing meant Jordan had to frequently dunk over and through guys if he wanted to dunk - so much so, that even with the limited footage available from back then, it is easy to find literally hundreds of Jordan chest-to-chest posters over defenders - defenders simply weren't LATE as much as today's spread-out defenders, so Jordan was forced to posterize more guys... meanwhile, Lebron benefits from more spread-out defenders that can usually only reach in or fly-by at best, rather than be waiting there ready to fully contest.
Also, here's the very best MJ dunk compilation on youtube by mdestinier (live-calls start at 5:42):
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPRyG5bOOtY&t=0m23s[/url]
And here's another excellent dunk compilation (done by balthus23): [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysMFyE4heVo&t=1m45s[/url]
[SIZE="3"][B][COLOR="Red"]SOURCES:[/COLOR][/B][/SIZE]
[B][U]Total Number of Dunks for Each Player in Various Seasons[/U][/B] (retrieved from 76er's Media Guides)
1988... [url]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2lb0whh&s=8#.U_0tH_ldX2U[/url]
1989... [url]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=ra47s3&s=8#.U_0qN_ldX2U[/url]
1990... [url]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=29aw57s&s=8#.U_0sDPldX2U[/url]
1991... [url]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=qpikcz&s=8#.U_0tS_ldX2V[/url]
1992... [url]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=iwox8i&s=8#.VI_7OSvF_Ck[/url]
1993... [url]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=6i9zef&s=8#.U_02XvldX2U[/url]
1995... [url]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=316rspc&s=8#.VI_53SvF_Ck[/url]
1996... [url]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=j82vl1&s=8#.VI_5qyvF_Ck[/url]
- Dunk data from 1997-2000 taken from stats.nba.com
- Dunk data from 2001-present is from cumulative play-by-play data of basketball-reference.com
- Shot attempt data for all years taken from basketball-reference.com
- Harvey Pollack's Statistical Guide was used to get cumulative dunks from 87'-05 (page 10)...
[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR][url]http://www.nba.com/media/sixers/05-06SIX_p1-50.pdf[/url]
[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]
[size="3"][COLOR="Red"][B]there are far more athletic swing men in this era[/B][/COLOR][/size]
[/QUOTE]
[SIZE="3"][B]SG's and SF's with 1 or more seasons of 100+ Dunks[/B][/SIZE]
[U]1988 - 1996[/U][COLOR="White"]......................[/COLOR][U]2001 - 2014[/U]
Michael Jordan.................. Kevin Durant
Dominique Wilkins............. Lebron James
Clyde Drexler.................... Dwayne Wade
Scottie Pippen................... Carmelo Anthony
Penny Hardaway................ Kobe Bryant
Grant Hill.......................... Tracy McGrady
Richard Dumas ................. Andre Iguodala
Ron Harper....................... Rudy Gay
Stacy Augmon................... Shawn Marion
Michael Finley................... Richard Jefferson
Jerry Stackhouse
Cedric Ceballos
Derrick McKey
Roy Hinson
Chris Morris
[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]
[B]Year[/B]..... [B]Shots[/B]..... [B]Dunks[/B]....[B]Shots Per Dunk[/B]
1988..... 165,439..... 5,727..... 28.89 <------ harder to dunk
1989..... 182,375..... 6,475..... 28.17
1990..... 192,942..... 7,011..... 27.52
1991..... 193,050..... 7,241..... 26.66
1992..... 193,401..... 8,122..... 23.81
1993..... 190,296..... 8,252..... 23.06
1994..... 186,948..... 8,515..... 21.96
1995..... 180,414..... 8,645..... 20.87
1996..... 190,675..... 8,468..... 22.52
1997..... 188,587..... 8,460..... 22.29
1998..... 189,544..... 9,318..... 20.34 <------ easier to dunk
1999..... 113,390..... 4,681..... 24.22
2000..... 195,228..... 8,325..... 23.45
2001..... 191,661..... 7,319..... 26.19 <------ harder to dunk
2002..... 193,256..... 8,439..... 22.90
2003..... 192,096..... 8,265..... 23.24
2004..... 189,805..... 8,120..... 23.38
2005..... 197,640..... 9,150..... 21.60
2006..... 194,310..... 8,640..... 22.49
2007..... 196,080..... 8,310..... 23.60
2008..... 200,490..... 9,270..... 21.63
2009..... 199,050..... 9,360..... 21.27
2010..... 201,000..... 8,790..... 22.87
2011......199,800..... 8,910..... 22.42
2012..... 161,220..... 7,320..... 22.02
2013..... 201,600..... 9,540..... 21.13
2014..... 204,180..... 9,030..... 22.61 <------ easier to dunk
[SIZE="3"][B][COLOR="Red"]perhaps one reason today's game has less shots per dunk (more dunks)[/COLOR][/B][/SIZE]
[/QUOTE]
[B][i]Today's game DOESN'T have more dunks - there were MORE dunks in 1995 than today... In 2001, dunks went back down to their 1988 level... As the chart shows, dunk frequency has FLUCTUATED over the years.. There's no one specific era where dunks were more or less.. [/i][/B]
Btw, let me guess - you got reaaallly bad grades in school - how can you misread the numbers on the chart and think today's game has more dunks.. It's amazing - every time you respond to one of my posts, you get my post wrong - you literally read it wrong and think it means something different than what I wrote.. Horrific reading comprehension and competency.. You're misreading of this chart means you're incompetent.. :confusedshrug:
.
3ball, my dude, what happened to all your gifs? I actually tried looking up the archived ones you posted for reference, and all the links seem to be dead. :(
[QUOTE=Dr.J4ever]
Ralph and Laz dominating 3ball.:applause:
[/QUOTE]
says the same loser that claims there was spacing in the 80's... :roll: :roll: :roll:
you and flpiii are the liars going around on various forums saying that the 80's had spacing... like, you can't have less integrity.
[QUOTE=3ball]says the same loser that claims there was spacing in the 80's... :roll: :roll: :roll:
you and flpiii are the liars going around on various forums saying that the 80's had spacing... like, you can't have less integrity.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://cdnl.complex.com/assets/images/lists/hip-hop-gifs/2-Camron-You-Mad.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lrsl62r3aN1qivigxo1_r2_400.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://mouthtoears.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/lil-boosie-gif-2.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/ddKNr.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]
[B]3ball, my dude, what happened to all your gifs?
[/B]
[/QUOTE]
I use a much faster, more user-friendly site now and my gifs are better.. For example, now I'm good at comparing two scenarios, such as the defense Lebron and MJ saw when they had ball at the elbow:
[IMG]http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-13-2015/ZN3fsu.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-06-2015/uAh_p8.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]
[IMG]http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-13-2015/BwsUCL.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/9-01-2015/8Fa7R_.gif[/IMG]
[B]I actually tried looking up the archived ones you posted for reference
[/B]
[/QUOTE]
[I]Let me know what gifs you wanted to see - I probably have them on the new site.[/I]
It's funny because I have some Lebron gifs on there too, and but they were all wide open dunks, mostly after using a screen or in transition.. Whereas, more of MJ's shots were highly contested, so he had many more hangtime, dipsy-do shots and chest-to-chest posters... Lebron's shot allocation is easier (due to the spacing-inspired 3-and-D).
Of course, you can't do 3-and-D all the time, like at very high shot volumes - but unfortunately, it's a statistical fact that Lebron isn't capable of good efficiency at high shot volume, since he's horrible at the [i]additional midrange[/i] (shown above) required of high volume shooting.
27 shot attempts per game (the amount Lebron averaged in 2015 Playoffs) cannot be achieved on all 3-and-D - good midrange is needed to shoot well at this volume.. Accordingly, Lebron's career 37% midrange efficiency precludes him from ever shooting well at very high volumes - this is a statistical fact.
.
[QUOTE=3ball][SIZE="3"][B]SG's and SF's with 1 or more seasons of 100+ Dunks[/B][/SIZE]
[U]1988 - 1996[/U][COLOR="White"]......................[/COLOR][U]2001 - 2014[/U]
Michael Jordan.................. Kevin Durant
Dominique Wilkins............. Lebron James
Clyde Drexler.................... Dwayne Wade
Scottie Pippen................... Carmelo Anthony
Penny Hardaway................ Kobe Bryant
Grant Hill.......................... Tracy McGrady
Richard Dumas ................. Andre Iguodala
Ron Harper....................... Rudy Gay
Stacy Augmon................... Shawn Marion
Michael Finley................... Richard Jefferson
Jerry Stackhouse
Cedric Ceballos
Derrick McKey
Roy Hinson
Chris Morris
[B][i]Today's game DOESN'T have more dunks - there were MORE dunks in 1995 than today... In 2001, dunks went back down to their 1988 level... As the chart shows, dunk frequency has FLUCTUATED over the years.. There's no one specific era where dunks were more or less.. [/i][/B]
Btw, let me guess - you got reaaallly bad grades in school - how can you misread the numbers on the chart and think today's game has more dunks.. It's amazing - every time you respond to one of my posts, you get my post wrong - you literally read it wrong and think it means something different than what I wrote.. Horrific reading comprehension and competency.. You're misreading of this chart means you're incompetent.. :confusedshrug:
.[/QUOTE]
Wait
, what? How are you going to reply to me about misreading something when:
A)I didn't misread, said exactly what I meant.
B)I didn't post what you quoted either
And proceed to mention school? :oldlol: Why don't you clean them goggles off next time you read my post. How the hell do you manage to keep getting sonned in all of your threads by so many different people?
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/TIXWapu.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/GxMsDsE.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/jxiiJ8I.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/3qYWEX4.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/nwa.gif[/IMG]
You're a joke 3ball
[QUOTE=ralph_i_el]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/jxiiJ8I.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/nwa.gif[/IMG]
You're a joke 3ball
[/QUOTE]
No mas again... I always make you resort to hating.
You're a pro at hating, i'll give you that.. you got those hater gifs on tap like my mj chest-to-chests
[QUOTE=3ball]I use a much faster, more user-friendly site now and my gifs are better.. For example, now I'm good at comparing two scenarios, such as the defense Lebron and MJ saw when they had ball at the elbow[/quote]
I posted in a thread a few weeks back, linking some of Jordan's best finishes around the rim.
Here are some of them:
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsREnYw6Afg#t=4m29s[/url]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mUtNiW0IVQ#t=5m15s[/url]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVTbfTcsQDM#t=7m05s[/url]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWrfxut6FJM#t=2m56s[/url]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWrfxut6FJM#t=4m49s[/url]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fswKeVJyewA#t=4m31s[/url]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btcr031tD4Y#t=0m30s[/url]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btcr031tD4Y#t=1m14s[/url]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0koFShSRAVY#t=3m51[/url]
Mike's agility, body control, first step, hang-time, fluidity and dexterity around the hoop...just on another level.
If you have time on your hands, you should seriously start archiving some of these again dude.