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[QUOTE=game3524]Some of this is revisionist history.
Those 2009/2010 Cleveland Cavaliers may have lacked in star power, but they were the ideal teams that you would put around Lebron(Spacing and strong defense).
Also, Lebron could have won in 2010 if he had decided to show up in the Boston series.[/QUOTE]
Exactly.
I've never heard of another superstar leaving multiple and perennial contenders, twice, in the midst of their prime. And that's the point. He had no reason to leave. He just...did.
[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Exactly.
I've never heard of another superstar leaving multiple and perennial contenders, twice, in the midst of their prime. And that's the point. He had no reason to leave. He just...did.[/QUOTE]
You see I don't have much of a problem of him leaving Miami. That team was old and done and Cleveland looked like a better spot.
The first time is bullshit though, he could have won in 2010 and checked out before the series began.
Historically title teams have ALWAYS had one superstar/top 5 player, coupled with another or maybe even two all-stars... always, with the exception of the '90 Pistons, '04 Pistons (both GOAT-level defenses) and '14 Spurs who didn't have a top 5 player, and the '94 Rockets/'03 Spurs/'11 Mavericks, who didn't have another all-star next to their best player in the game...
go through the years. Thats the formula.
But apparently, for LeBron, Mo Williams and Anderson Varejao will do just fine...
[QUOTE=game3524]You see I don't have much of a problem of him leaving Miami. That team was old and done and Cleveland looked like a better spot.
The first time is bullshit though, he could have won in 2010 and checked out before the series began.[/QUOTE]
Miami did make the finals, but I get what you're saying.
Definitely agree on the Boston series. It gets swept under the rug because of the 2011 finals, but "elbow gate" was a total quit job.
[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]Historically title teams have ALWAYS had one superstar/top 5 player, coupled with another or maybe even two all-stars... always, with the exception of the '90 Pistons, '04 Pistons (both GOAT-level defenses) and '14 Spurs who didn't have a top 5 player, and the '94 Rockets/'03 Spurs/'11 Mavericks, who didn't have another all-star next to their best player in the game...
go through the years. Thats the formula.
[B]But apparently, for LeBron, Mo Williams and Anderson Varejao will do just fine...[/B][/QUOTE]
You can spin it all you want. He was favored/expected to win in 2010 and he didn't get the job done, hell he didn't even make it to the conference finals and that is on him(if he played like he did in the regular season, they beat Boston in 6 and have good chance of beating an Orlando team that didn't have the Hedo advantage they had the year before).
He is a great player(top ten all-time), but the way you stans try to downplay the low points of his career is hilarious.
Was he shit in game 5? Of course... but checking out? Please.
Does this look like checking out?
[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4PUS1gPZJA"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4PUS1gPZJA[/URL]
Or his 30/20/10 with like 9 TO's in game 6? Nah..
He was so out of this world amazing from games 1-3, his overall series still looks good..
[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]Was he shit in game 5? Of course... but checking out? Please.
Does this look like checking out?
[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4PUS1gPZJA"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4PUS1gPZJA[/URL]
Or his 30/20/10 with like 9 TO's in game 6? Nah..
He was so out of this world amazing from games 1-3, his overall series still looks good..[/QUOTE]
Guy definitely quit in game 5.
[url]http://espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5365793[/url]
[url]http://espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100512[/url]
Bill Simmons was a huge LeBron fan at the time, and actually called him out on it. :oldlol:
[QUOTE=game3524]You can spin it all you want. He was favored/expected to win in 2010 and he didn't get the job done, hell he didn't even make it to the conference finals and that is on him(if he played like he did in the regular season, they beat Boston in 6 and have good chance of beating an Orlando team that didn't have the Hedo advantage they had the year before).
He is a great player(top ten all-time), but the way you stans try to downplay the low points of his career is hilarious.[/QUOTE]
He was favored because he just arguably had the greatest regular season ever....
it was his dominance.
It wasnt the type of all-around 60+ win team, but the 60-win team carrying job.
61-21 - w/ LeBron: +11.5 w/o LeBron: -5.3 (16.8 on/off turnaround)
PG responsibilities with Mo out:
13 games: 31.7 points per game, 10.8 assists per game, 7.3 rebounds per game (12-1)
10 of the 13 games:
28 points, 9 rebounds, 11 assists vs. Toronto Raptors
37 points, 9 assists vs. Los Angeles Lakers
37 points, 9 rebounds, 13 assists vs. Oklahoma City Thunder
32 points, 9 rebounds, 14 assists vs. Miami Heat
22 points, 9 rebounds, 13 assists vs. Los Angeles Clippers
22 points, 6 rebounds, 15 assists vs. Memphis Grizzlies
36 points, 7 rebounds, 8 assists vs. Miami Heat
47 points, 8 rebounds, 8 assists vs. New York Knicks
32 points, 8 rebounds, 13 assists vs. Orlando Magic
43 points, 13 rebounds, 15 assists vs. Denver Nuggets
His averages: 31.7ppg 7.3rpg 10.8apg 1.8spg 1.2bpg (3.7 TOPG) on 48/31/76
Dominated Kobe... he was doing everything.
Dont tell me he was supposed to win....
that team went to #2 worst in the LEAGUE without him. Even before the trades... Mo became a back-up PG somewhere else, Shaq was done...
JJ Hickson, Anthony Parker, Daniel Gibson, Antawn Jamison, Mo Williams, Anderson Varejao, Jamario Moon won 66 games with LeBron...
the next year they went on the worst losing streak of all time (26 games)...
trades and different players after a while? Sure, but the 2010 team wasnt set in concrete in the first place....
Shaq missed 1/3 the season, Illgauskas was done, West was in and out of lineup and with the usual legal/mental problems, and Mo Williams missed 15 straight games.
Their record during that stretch? 14-1.
Don't make any 'but trades!' excuses.
That team was all LeBron... all of it. Listen man.
His quitting was so obvious that people said Lebron quit because the entire team knew about Delonte and Lebron's mom; that he felt betrayed and decided to quit on the whole team and run to Miami.
[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]He was favored because he just arguably had the greatest regular season ever....
it was his dominance.
It wasnt the type of all-around 60+ win team, but the 60-win team carrying job.
61-21 - w/ LeBron: +11.5 w/o LeBron: -5.3 (16.8 on/off turnaround)
PG responsibilities with Mo out:
13 games: 31.7 points per game, 10.8 assists per game, 7.3 rebounds per game (12-1)
10 of the 13 games:
28 points, 9 rebounds, 11 assists vs. Toronto Raptors
37 points, 9 assists vs. Los Angeles Lakers
37 points, 9 rebounds, 13 assists vs. Oklahoma City Thunder
32 points, 9 rebounds, 14 assists vs. Miami Heat
22 points, 9 rebounds, 13 assists vs. Los Angeles Clippers
22 points, 6 rebounds, 15 assists vs. Memphis Grizzlies
36 points, 7 rebounds, 8 assists vs. Miami Heat
47 points, 8 rebounds, 8 assists vs. New York Knicks
32 points, 8 rebounds, 13 assists vs. Orlando Magic
43 points, 13 rebounds, 15 assists vs. Denver Nuggets
His averages: 31.7ppg 7.3rpg 10.8apg 1.8spg 1.2bpg (3.7 TOPG) on 48/31/76
Dominated Kobe... he was doing everything.
[B]Dont tell me he was supposed to win....[/B]
that team went to #2 worst in the LEAGUE without him. Even before the trades... Mo became a back-up PG somewhere else, Shaq was done...
JJ Hickson, Anthony Parker, Daniel Gibson, Antawn Jamison, Mo Williams, Anderson Varejao, Jamario Moon won 66 games with LeBron...
the next year they went on the worst losing streak of all time (26 games)...
trades and different players after a while? Sure, but the 2010 team wasnt set in concrete in the first place....
Shaq missed 1/3 the season, Illgauskas was done, West was in and out of lineup and with the usual legal/mental problems, and Mo Williams missed 15 straight games.
Their record during that stretch? 14-1.
Don't make any 'but trades!' excuses.
That team was all LeBron... all of it. Listen man.[/QUOTE]
Of course he was suppose to win.:oldlol:
Best record in the league, he is the best player. The defending champions(Lakers) best player was hobbled and playing on one-leg, the defending Eastern Conference champions(Orlando) had regressed and didn't possess the same match up advantages they had last year. Another contender(Celtics) big three looked aged and had a 2nd half collapse.
These are facts, and you can try to white washing all you want, but it is what it is. If Lebron played up to his standards in game 5, he pretty much guarantees a game 7 at home and would face of against an Orlando team that wasn't as good as it was the year before and the Cavs matched up much better this time around.
his standards were GOAT standards though... thats the level he played at that year and what it took to get that team in that position. Youre putting him on GOAT range by expecting so.
[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]his standards were GOAT standards though... thats the level he played at that year and what it took to get that team in that position. Youre putting him on GOAT range by expecting so.[/QUOTE]
GOAT standards?:oldlol:
No one is saying he had to put up consistent 45/17/6 or whatever he put up against the Celtics in 2012. Just play how you did so far in the post-season and play with energy and you team advances to the conferences finals.
He didn't do that in game 5.
Kobe pretty much did the same thing
The East has been relatively weak for the run. That said, the streak is an amazing accomplishment.
[QUOTE=STATUTORY]not if you play in the east and actively colluded[/QUOTE]
This :applause: