Where would you put LeBron James on the all time list? Honest answers, please.

[QUOTE=aj1987]As I said, I wouldn't mind having a debate with a reasonable and rational person like you, but some of the other... lol **** that. It's easier to just call them an idiot and move on. Numerous times, I've actually wasted time typing up a post with actual facts, only for those idiots to retort with "but but lebronze suxxxQ!! :rant :rant ". So yeah..[/QUOTE]


People aren't rational. You are not. I am not. Nobody is. We have tendencies to rationalize. That's how the brain works. At first you have instincts... then feelings... and then comes the cognitive part. Some people are better at rationalizing and some are better at getting their points across.

And you may call me someone you like to talk to (thanks, I do appreciate it), however, you think LeBron is easily top 3 and I think he is borderline top 10. Both of us know the facts. We both have seen his career. Still, we strongly disagree.

I like it. :rockon:

[QUOTE='Toine=MVP]Should have made it top 5 ish then clear top 10 or put another choice in between like top 5, 6 or 7 ish then top 10 ish.

Really poor choices.[/QUOTE]

Yeah. That's a good point. I realized it myself but it was too late. But it would not change the results greatly. I played with the numbers... and the end result was always between 6-9.

7th or 8th is the consensus here. (Actually, it isn't a consensus. It's the result. But whatever.)

It's 38 top 5 and 39 outside the top 5

But if you factor out the alts ...

He's easily top 5 and probably top 3 of the guys I have seen in my lifetime. So basically Magic/Bird era to now. I haven't seen guys like Russell, Wilt, West, Baylor, Oscar, etc. Even Kareem and Moses I don't feel comfortable evaluating.

So if I were to add a cushion of guys from past eras: top 5 would be my call.

[QUOTE=elementally morale]People aren't rational. You are not. I am not. Nobody is. We have tendencies to rationalize. That's how the brain works. At first you have instincts... then feelings... and then comes the cognitive part. Some people are better at rationalizing and some are better at getting their points across.

And you may call me someone you like to talk to (thanks, I do appreciate it), however, you think LeBron is easily top 3 and I think he is borderline top 10. Both of us know the facts. We both have seen his career. Still, we strongly disagree.

I like it. :rockon:[/QUOTE]
As I said, we might disagree, but I wouldn't mind having a discussion with you. At least you'll bring in some facts into the argument. That's my point.

[QUOTE=Marchesk]It's 38 top 5 and 39 outside the top 5

But if you factor out the alts ...[/QUOTE]


Alts tend to vote goat and not top 15. If not that then top 3 and top 15. If you exclude all these votes... watch out:

[U]All votes:[/U]

votes: 78
points: 575
avg: 7.4


[U]goat and not top 15 excluded:[/U]

votes: 54
points: 347
avg: 6.4



[U]goat excluded:[/U]

votes: 66
points: 563
avg: 8.5


[U]not top 15 excluded:[/U]

votes: 66
points: 359
avg: 5.4


It is safe to say the 'real result' is very close to the actual result. 7-8 ish. If you exclude this, a little better if you exclude that, a little worse. Outside the top 5 inside the top 10 either way.

[QUOTE=aj1987]As I said, we might disagree, but I wouldn't mind having a discussion with you. At least you'll bring in some facts into the argument. That's my point.[/QUOTE]


I get it.

But sometimes you don't need facts. Who do you think is the best cook? Well... what do you like to eat? You have a right to form an opinion that you don't want to defend. You don't have to defend it. You may... try. :oldlol: Opinions are opinions because they are not facts. So you can't really prove them.

Or to put it in another way. Your opinion is not factual. Something you strongly believe will not make that belief a fact. However... you do think what you think and this IS a fact. When it comes to opinions the only fact you do have is your opinion being yours.

[QUOTE=elementally morale]I get it.

But sometimes you don't need facts. [B]Who do you think is the best cook? Well... what do you like to eat?[/B] You have a right to form an opinion that you don't want to defend. You don't have to defend it. You may... try. :oldlol: Opinions are opinions because they are not facts. So you can't really prove them.

Or to put it in another way. Your opinion is not factual. Something you strongly believe will not make that belief a fact. However... you do think what you think and this IS a fact. When it comes to opinions the only fact you do have is your opinion being yours.[/QUOTE]
That's a poor analogy though. Food preference is 100% subjective, with no criteria for what tastes better. While sports can certainly be subjective to an extent, there's definitely more concrete evidence and result based criteria people can use to judge and compare athletes or teams.

You can play devils advocate all you like, but there's no criteria imaginable that could realistically leave LeBron outside of the top 10 of all time.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]That's a poor analogy though. Food preference is 100% subjective, with no criteria for what tastes better. While sports can certainly be subjective to an extent, there's definitely more concrete evidence and result based criteria people can use to judge and compare athletes or teams.[/QUOTE]


As for who you think the best is, no such criteria. It's not about most points. Or most rings. Those things are measurable. Best is not.



[QUOTE]You can play devils advocate all you like, but there's no criteria imaginable that could realistically leave LeBron outside of the top 10 of all time.[/QUOTE]


Okay then. So there are some people who by your standards have 'unrealistic opinions'. So what? This is only your opinion. And I may find (I actually do find) this opinion of yours rather unrealistic. Labeling others' opinions unrealistic is not being realistic about what the word opinion means.

I can tell you that there are 'no criteria imaginable' by which you can think LeBron is top 2 all time. And? What does it mean? Nothing. There are people who DO think he is top 2 all time.

I have LeBron currently at 3 behind Jordan and Kareem (and I

As the great George Carlin said:

'Do I have a right to my opinion?'
'Yes. But so do I. And my opinion is you don't have a right to your opinion.'

:cheers:

By the way the result is getting closer to number 7.

once you take out the alt votes of u know who, we get a weighed average of not top 15 :rockon:

[QUOTE=Mr. Jabbar]once you take out the alt votes of u know who, we get a weighed average of not top 15 :rockon:[/QUOTE]


If you exclude the extremes it never gets worse than number 9. And never better than number 6. It is what it is. Top 10, not top 5.

In order to buy a borderline top 10 or not top 15 type of ranking I'd really have to see your top 10 and discuss it with you to see if you stay consistent throughout. Most "lists" get too cute with criteria and end up stepping on their own feet. For the record i can't fathom Lebron being simply borderline top 10.