MJ dunks over Hakeem

[QUOTE=warriorfan;14944959]Only ever brought up pau not winning a playoff game when dudes would try to shit on Love and Bosh for the same thing.


Once again Im pretty sure i’ve seen you simp for guys who get shit on for not having team success

Just interesting you change your tune with bosh

just saying[/QUOTE]
Why are you obsessively hating on a guy who made history in LeBron James? Didn't you have a meltdown about me supposedly doing that about Ohtani (baseball's LeBron)? Hypocrisy off the charts, yikes. Time to log in to LLL3 for backup!

[QUOTE=tpols;14944845]I'm not sure how being compared to Blazers LMA or Julius Randle when he put up 25/10 on elite efficiency is a nothing burger.

Those two have had seasons as good or better than some years of prime pippen. That's why we are trying to highlight their games because they didn't have the privilege of the winning spotlight to the extent pippen did.[/QUOTE]


And Zach Lavine put up 24+ a game on 48/39/85 on a playoff team. I could run you down a good list of hall of famers to never do that. Even if we throw out the 3 and ft percentages.

Nobody cares. And nobody should.

All just a byproduct of the game having a set number of players and teams needing 100+ points. People not necessarily on or near the same level will be similarly productive. Especially across eras.

A lot of people do 29/6/4 without being as good as Jordan was when he won an mvp with those numbers.

There have been “Meh” 24/10s and “He’s the best in the nba” 22/12”.

And we all know it. But when we need to prop up someone we act like it’s a given the numbers translate directly to greatness.

Everyone is guilty of it to some extent I just wish we could do it without the indignation and pretense that we don’t know it’s a very flawed system.

Plenty of Randle and Bosh types have not been as good as some want them to be considered due to numbers. Plenty have been much more effective than numbers suggest.

I feel like we are all far enough along in these discussions to stop having the same fallback numbers vs “But what he win tho?” arguments.

I didn’t **** with him before it was established he didn’t make that great a difference. And I have since watched a bunch of “He just….WINS” people selectively prop up some losers and shit on others and it just happens to always fall in line with who they need to make look good or bad because of some argument about someone else’s supporting cast.

I can’t get what feels like an honest consistent across the board evaluation out of anyone.

You like the guy like him. None of my concern. The takes all just seem to fall exactly in like with what one would expect from the source.

I can show you me choosing Rodman over Love when love was having a season that statistically had no precedent. But people will pull the same shit they do with Bosh now and act like everyone was sold on him at the time.

Fans have been disregarding the production of guys they aren’t that impressed by since the start of tracking stats. But personal ties and agendas make it more or less offensive for each of us case by case.

We have all responded to some generally impressive stat line with a “…..and?” but seem shocked and appalled every time we see someone do it to one we present as evidence.

If nothing else….we should stop acting like it’s the first time every time.

An awful lot of productive people just aren’t as impressive as their supporters want others to think.

Especially ones with “That nice….” stats instead of “Jesus Christ….” stats.

And in truth?

A few of the “Jesus Christ….” lines aren’t THAT amazing either basketball playing wise. Not many. But a few.

The Bosh type numbers have a long history of being attached to people we don’t look back on as special. There is a whole sack of 22ish and 9ish guys we don’t give two shits about.

He doesn’t have a “Thing”.

It’s probably time to stop being surprised he’s not that highly regarded in retrospect. He got the winners bump. It keeps him out of Randle and Aldridge territory for the most part. But that’s where he lives production wise and success wise.

He managed to escape that zone without the special part of his game that provides the hook for most borderline all nba types who last in our memories. He got to be an all star doing 16/7. He got to pad the resume. He’s in the hall.

All things considered he’s more highly regarded historically than his game justified.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14944961]And Zach Lavine put up 24+ a game on 48/39/85 on a playoff team. I could run you down a good list of hall of famers to never do that. Even if we throw out the 3 and ft percentages.

Nobody cares. And nobody should.

All just a byproduct of the game having a set number of players and teams needing 100+ points. People not necessarily on or near the same level will be similarly productive. Especially across eras.

A lot of people do 29/6/4 without being as good as Jordan was when he won an mvp with those numbers.

There have been “Meh” 24/10s and “He’s the best in the nba” 22/12”.

And we all know it. But when we need to prop up someone we act like it’s a given the numbers translate directly to greatness.

Everyone is guilty of it to some extent I just wish we could do it without the indignation and pretense that we don’t know it’s a very flawed system.

Plenty of Randle and Bosh types have not been as good as some want them to be considered due to numbers. Plenty have been much more effective than numbers suggest.

I feel like we are all far enough along in these discussions to stop having the same fallback numbers vs “But what he win tho?” arguments.

I didn’t **** with him before it was established he didn’t make that great a difference. And I have since watched a bunch of “He just….WINS” people selectively prop up some losers and shit on others and it just happens to always fall in line with who they need to make look good or bad because of some argument about someone else’s supporting cast.

I can’t get what feels like an honest consistent across the board evaluation out of anyone.

You like the guy like him. None of my concern. The takes all just seem to fall exactly in like with what one would expect from the source.

I can show you me choosing Rodman over Love when love was having a season that statistically had no precedent. But people will pull the same shit they do with Bosh now and act like everyone was sold on him at the time.

Fans have been disregarding the production of guys they aren’t that impressed by since the start of tracking stats. But personal ties and agendas make it more or less offensive for each of us case by case.

We have all responded to some generally impressive stat line with a “…..and?” but seem shocked and appalled every time we see someone do it to one we present as evidence.

If nothing else….we should stop acting like it’s the first time every time.

An awful lot of productive people just aren’t as impressive as their supporters want others to think.

Especially ones with “That nice….” stats instead of “Jesus Christ….” stats.

And in truth?

A few of the “Jesus Christ….” lines aren’t THAT amazing either basketball playing wise. Not many. But a few.

The Bosh type numbers have a long history of being attached to people we don’t look back on as special. There is a whole sack of 22ish and 9ish guys we don’t give two shits about.

He doesn’t have a “Thing”.

It’s probably time to stop being surprised he’s not that highly regarded in retrospect. He got the winners bump. It keeps him out of Randle and Aldridge territory for the most part. But that’s where he lives production wise and success wise.

He managed to escape that zone without the special part of his game that provides the hook for most borderline all nba types who last in our memories. He got to be an all star doing 16/7. He got to pad the resume. He’s in the hall.

All things considered he’s more highly regarded historically than his game justified.[/QUOTE]
Tpols and warriorfan don't believe any of the shit they're saying about Bosh supposedly being better than Pippen, they just see it as a way to make LeBron look worse, it's really bizarre behavior and insulting that they think we can't realize what they're doing.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14944963]Tpols and warriorfan don't believe any of the shit they're saying about Bosh supposedly being better than Pippen, they just see it as a way to make LeBron look worse, it's really bizarre behavior and insulting that they think we can't realize what they're doing.[/QUOTE]
I have seen warriorfan claim Bosh was better than Kobe in 2010, so he could believe it for all I know.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14944965][B]I have seen warriorfan claim Bosh was better than Kobe in 2010[/B], so he could believe it for all I know.[/QUOTE]
WHAT????? Link?

[QUOTE=warriorfan;14944959]Only ever brought up pau not winning a playoff game when dudes would try to shit on Love and Bosh for the same thing.


Once again Im pretty sure i’ve seen you simp for guys who get shit on for not having team success

Just interesting you change your tune with bosh

just saying[/QUOTE]



So more “I do this all the time but it’s ok when I do” nonsense?

Every single thing I’ve said about them all existed before any of these agenda dipped takes everything you say is colored by.

I was on here when Kobe demanded a trade saying I’d rather the Bulls trade for Pau because we would just become the lakers east and lose with Kobe once we traded all our pieces for him. This is 2007. Memphis had won 22 games that year.

I’ve not liked winners and explained that losers weren’t at fault for it. Always case by case. I didn’t **** with Bosh winning rings or doing 15 a game in the playoffs getting destroyed in Toronto.

People aren’t necessarily their team results. But when the team results sync up with pre existing criticism?

Thats when it gets too easy.

I just wish I could find the topic when Jermaine O’Neal got to Toronto. It’s gotta be in my top 5 rightest moments.

Early in his career I was often on his side of comparisons because for some reason Knicks fans had a thing for comparing him to Michael Sweetney. And then somehow it ended up Bosh vs Josh Howard with a mavs fan friend of mine who used to post here. But somewhere around 06 or 07.

Been saying the same shit ever since and you types pop up with different reasons I must think it in retrospect.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14944966]WHAT????? Link?[/QUOTE]


He had a run of lying about believing your per ranking decided your league ranking, but it went directly in conflict with a number of other things. Like Kobe being something like 11th that same year. Couldn’t come out and say that per obviously doesn’t determine ranking because he was posting the per ranking five or 10 times a week back then as if it did.

A tricky little hypocrisy to navigate, but he did his best.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14944966]WHAT????? Link?[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?413651-Curry-got-the-2nd-highest-per-to-play-with-him-LeBron-joined-the-2nd-AND-4th-highest&p=12505070#post12505070"]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?413651-Curry-got-the-2nd-highest-per-to-play-with-him-LeBron-joined-the-2nd-AND-4th-highest&p=12505070#post12505070[/URL]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14944970]He had a run of lying about believing your per ranking decided your league ranking, but it went directly in conflict with a number of other things. Like Kobe being something like 11th that same year. Couldn’t come out and say that per obviously doesn’t determine ranking because he was posting the per ranking five or 10 times a week back then as if it did.

A tricky little hypocrisy to navigate, but he did his best.[/QUOTE]
I'll admit I used to take PER seriously a while ago, but Hassan Whiteside, amongst just learning more about the game, definitely soured me on it. As with all Heat fans, I considered him at best a solid player, and in many years an active detriment, and we improved considerably when we started playing a pre-prime Bam Adebayo over him, despite Bam never getting particularly close to Whiteside's PER scores. PER would have you believe Whiteside is one of the best players of all time, and he's easily one of my least favorite Heat players ever, just the definition of empty stats. I can confidently say that's not the case for Bosh, but I certainly wouldn't say Bosh is better than Kobe either...

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14944972][URL="http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?413651-Curry-got-the-2nd-highest-per-to-play-with-him-LeBron-joined-the-2nd-AND-4th-highest&p=12505070#post12505070"]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?413651-Curry-got-the-2nd-highest-per-to-play-with-him-LeBron-joined-the-2nd-AND-4th-highest&p=12505070#post12505070[/URL][/QUOTE]
I forgot how badly 2016 broke him

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14944970]He had a run of lying about believing your per ranking decided your league ranking, but it went directly in conflict with a number of other things. Like Kobe being something like 11th that same year. Couldn’t come out and say that per obviously doesn’t determine ranking because he was posting the per ranking five or 10 times a week back then as if it did.

A tricky little hypocrisy to navigate, but he did his best.[/QUOTE]

I’d imagine it was in response to Lebron fans using PER as gospel, since he dominated the number at the time. Understandable push-back at the time but still throwing it in 10-12 years later is odd.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14944994]I’d imagine it was in response to Lebron fans using PER as gospel, since he dominated the number at the time. Understandable push-back at the time but still throwing it in 10-12 years later is odd.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure he was arguing LeBron is "borderline top 10" the other day :lol

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14944994]I’d imagine it was in response to Lebron fans using PER as gospel, since he dominated the number at the time. Understandable push-back at the time but still throwing it in 10-12 years later is odd.[/QUOTE]


I didn’t **** with Bosh all the way back to the Bush administration. Random things I found from me as far back as 2006


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