Jokic is the 4th best player of all time

[QUOTE=Duffy Pratt;14985013]Who are the great offensive players Jokic is playing with? They fit well as a team, but only because Jokic is there. With Jokic playing, their offensive rating is the best in the league. When Jokic sits, there offensively rating is the worst in the league.[/QUOTE]
I didn't say Jokic played with great offensive players so what is this about? Everyone concedes that Jokic is better offensively. Vs olajuwon the argument is more focused on the important fact that along with being a great offensive player olajuwon was one of the greatest defensive players of all time. Jokic is not that.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14984742]Why would Magic and Bird not be on this list lol. Or Curry.[/QUOTE]

cause they dont have a GOAT tier peak thats why :lol

[QUOTE=RRR3;14984935]Yeah seriously, Hakeem won with Otis ****ing Thorpe as his number two. Thorpe was a fine player but hardly a championship number two, and the rest of the roster was really weak as well. Robert Horry was a major option on offense, and he was pretty much a spot up shooter for the rest of his career on title teams.

94 is one of the all time carry jobs, I can admit he had more help in 95 with Drexler though.[/QUOTE]

Havnt you been spamming for years about how the 90’s had terrible competition and today’s players are so much better?




Weird.

[QUOTE=Bankaii;14984911]Jokic has had plenty of help lmao. Murray has series better than Penny has ever had (tempted to say Kobe too because of efficiency).

The championship nuggets had 6 guys average double figures. Murray outscored Jokic in half the series they played while averaging 47/40/93 shooting splits:oldlol:[/QUOTE]

No he hasn't.

Jamal Murray is the only great player he's ever played with. And he's just an average All Star talent. Kobe, Wade and Penny were superstars. Especially Kobe and Wade.

Most other all time great got to play with with true superstar at one point or another. Even Hakeem got to play with Clyde Drexler who balled out and is one of the GOAT shooting guards.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;14985027]I didn't say Jokic played with great offensive players so what is this about? [B]Everyone concedes that Jokic is better offensively.[/B] Vs olajuwon the argument is more focused on the important fact that along with being a great offensive player olajuwon was one of the greatest defensive players of all time. Jokic is not that.[/QUOTE]

You definitely weren't conceding that yesterday.

And if it was as simple as defense + offense = players worth, Gary Payton would be considered > Magic Johnson. But that doesn't add up. Offensive brilliance can be more individual based. Defense is usually more of a team and coach thing.

[QUOTE=tpols;14985044]You definitely weren't conceding that yesterday.

And if it was as simple as defense + offense = players worth, Gary Payton would be considered > Magic Johnson. But that doesn't add up. Offensive brilliance can be more individual based. Defense is usually more of a team and coach thing.[/QUOTE]
Show where I said olajuwon was the better scorer. Because I can show you trying to act like passing is just as important as the entire category of defense. Your lies and stupidity are not an actual point.

overrated

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;14985051]Show where I said olajuwon was the better scorer. [B]Because I can show you trying to act like passing is just as important as the entire category of defense. [/B]Your lies and stupidity are not an actual point.[/QUOTE]

It absolutely can be. Passing on the level of Magic or Jokic has absolutely tremendous impact on basketball games. I'm actually astonished that you don't realize that.

He's top 20. I'll give you that. Anything higher will need more time to marinate.

[QUOTE=tpols;14985057]It absolutely can be. Passing on the level of Magic or Jokic has absolutely tremendous impact on basketball games. I'm actually astonished that you don't realize that.[/QUOTE]

You and I disagree on some things but we agree on Jokic which is great to see.

So many people in this thread are holding Jokic to a higher standard than other all time greats.

Jokic is on an absurd 5 year peak. He got unlucky considering his best teammates were injured in the playoffs during the first two years of his peak.

[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14985065]You and I disagree on some things but we agree on Jokic which is great to see.

So many people in this thread are holding Jokic to a higher standard than other all time greats.

Jokic is on an absurd 5 year peak. He got unlucky considering his best teammates were injured in the playoffs during the first two years of his peak.[/QUOTE]

Thank you bro. Its just like anything else. Magics passing = Mutumbos defense. Or Hakeems. Scoring, passing, rebounding, and defense. If you're super elite at any of them the impact is felt. Dennis Rodman was almost a superstar on rebounding alone.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14984742]Why would Magic and Bird not be on this list lol. Or Curry.[/QUOTE]

Cause Magic didn't play defense

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;14985067]Cause Magic didn't play defense[/QUOTE]

And he won 5 rings doing that. And was still leading teams to the Finals even when he had AIDs and no Kareem.

True offensive brilliance is something else. The ball is in the offense hands. Magic could let you run a layup line, laugh and do the same thing 0n the other end but better. And then win.

[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14984762]Five years of peak MJ/Lebron play is me being a "prisoner of the moment"? :biggums:

Jokic is literally a BETTER/BIGGER version of Larry Bird.

[b]Magic -> Lebron[/b]
Bird -> Jokic


This is the evolution of two players widely considered top 10 all time, so of course Lebron/Jokic will rank higher.[/QUOTE]
:oldlol: ... no

[QUOTE=tpols;14985069]And he won 5 rings doing that. And was still leading teams to the Finals even when he had AIDs and no Kareem.

True offensive brilliance is something else. The ball is in the offense hands. Magic could let you run a layup line, laugh and do the same thing 0n the other end but better. And then win.[/QUOTE]
He saw his contending days were done and faked AIDS. He thought it was better to quit than fade away gracefully.