ISH All-time Top 25 Guards Project: #2 Kobe Bryant vs Magic Johnson.

[QUOTE=RRR3]Post in the thread son! Come on now.[/QUOTE]

Done and done. Will try to find more still...

[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]:facepalm

huh...they were the best team...with the best record in thier conference...many MVP's won the award without having the best overall record.


and in 2001 Kobe was far and away the lakers best [B][SIZE="4"]overall[/SIZE][/B] player...Shaq and Phil have both echoed this....ESPN ran a 5 page story saying Kobe was the[B][SIZE="4"] League's [/SIZE][/B]best player...

Kobe on top of this was voted by TNT , S.I. and Sporting News as the runaway player of the decade....but steve Nash nash more MVP's[/QUOTE]

the point is that they didn't have the best record in the league any of those years. playoffs don't matter in mvp voting

and in none of those years was kobe a clear mvp favorite

btw 2001 shaq was CLEARLY better, by any statistical or intangible measurement. if anything shaq was robbed of the mvp that year

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]Which would be ?[/QUOTE]

It's about what you value most. I may say a guy putting up 35/5/5 makes him easily the best player, while you may say he was losing in the first round and there was another guy putting up 31/7/7 the same year. Some people value individual success while others prefer a player's effect on a team, etc.

[QUOTE=RRR3]There are some years it hasn't been arguable though, say with Shaq some years and MJ, Wilt, Kareem, etc.[/QUOTE]

That's why I said "very few"

[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]2001

2002

2008

2009

2010

thanks for showing your hatred....now go apply yourself


next[/QUOTE]


pathetic post from a stupid fool

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]All-Star MVP's are pretty much irrelevant. How much stock you going to put into the all-star games when they play little to no defense and is an exhibition game ?

Similar level of offensive domination my ass, there's nothing similar in their domination on offense. Kobe is a high volume scorer who can be a very deadily when he gets hot. Magic is a pass first point guard, who get's everyone involved in the offense, higher bball i.q. on offense, and more efficient guard.

Defensively ? Not much to say there. Though, Kobe's defense has been called into question over the years:

[url]http://asubstituteforwar.com/2011/05/09/kobe-bryant-the-most-overrated-defender-imaginable/[/url]

Though, I try not too look at defensive ratings or advanced stats too much I found this shocking:

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/def_rtg_career.html[/url]

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/def_rtg_career_p.html[/url]

There is virtually little difference between the two. But isn't Kobe supposed to be the one with All-Defense First Team's ? Shouldn't he be higher ? It's strange.

Really, it's not close from how I see it. Magic wins this.

Agree to Disagree.[/QUOTE]

I don't care about all star MVPs. The post I was responding to listed it among Magic's unbeatable accolades. It was just funny that Kobe outside of MVPs already has Magic beat in all of them.

Kobe is a shooting guard, Magic a point guard. Its the nature of the position for Kobe to score and Magic to pass. If Magic was forced to score more his efficiency would drop and if Kobe was asked to pass more his efficiency would increase.

+/- isn't a individual defensive metric. Opposing PER is and Kobe's opposing SG's were held to a 11.8 PER. What else do you want?

Why would it be shocking to you? Unlike Jordan, unlike Magic, unlike Bird, unlike Shaq, unlike Duncan, Kobe has never played with a teammate who made the first team all nba defensive team. Jordan had Pippen, Magic had Kareem, Bird had Mchale, Duncan had Bowen, Kobe had 3 seasons of Shaq's 2nd team defense and thats it. Defensive ratings are all about being on a great defensive team and the Kobe even in his championship runs was never on a elite regular season defense. It just makes his championship dominance that more impressive.

[QUOTE=Mr. I'm So Rad]:roll:[/QUOTE]

what is so funny about my post?

Kobe Bryant deserves 0 MVP. I repeat NONE. He is overrated and will stay overrated until the day he retires.

Chris Paul was clearly the best player in the NBA in 08 and he should have been given the MVP. He put up the GREATEST NUMBERS from a PG. (Yes better than Magic Johnson!)

[B]21.1PPG 11.6APG 5.5RPG 2.7SPG 49FG% 28.3PER 13.2OWS 17.8WS [/B]

New Orleans Hornets had won 56 games, and just lost 26 times. Lakers had won 57 games(with a better roster than the Hornets) just 1 more game than the Hornets. To remind you, nobody, and i mean nobody had the Hornets even making the playoffs that season, but yet, the best PG (at the time) and the best player (that year), did what he did, with that roster and brought back the city of New Orleans after that horrific Hurricane Katrina.

Salute to Chris Paul.

[CENTER][IMG]http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5257/5467706222_ec055944d1.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER]

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2008.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]fixed your post :oldlol:

Similar level of offensive domination... Kobe crushes Magic defensively

It's really not close at all.[/QUOTE]

defensively? Kobe Bryant making last season all NBA 1st defensive team, shows you how bad this league is screwed up. Kobe Bryant is overrated.

I can name at least 5 players who deserves a spot over him last season.

Excellent Offense kills o.k. Defense

[QUOTE=JordanTime]In those 5 championship.......how times did Kobe lead a team to the finals as the team best player?

2008 MVP is a joke. That Award had Chris Paul name written all over it.

[B]Kobe Bryant deserves NO MVP's. I repeat NO MVP[/B]!![/QUOTE]
Damn, you just went full retard.

[QUOTE=JordanTime]what is so funny about my post?

Kobe Bryant deserves 0 MVP. I repeat NONE. He is overrated and will stay overrated until the day he retires.

Chris Paul was clearly the best player in the NBA in 08 and he should have been given the MVP. He put up the GREATEST NUMBERS from a PG. (Yes better than Magic Johnson!)

[B]21.1PPG 11.6APG 5.5RPG 2.7SPG 49FG% 28.3PER 13.2OWS 17.8WS [/B]

New Orleans Hornets had won 56 games, and just lost 26 times. Lakers had won 57 games(with a better roster than the Hornets) just 1 more game than the Hornets. To remind you, nobody, and i mean nobody had the Hornets even making the playoffs that season, but yet, the best PG (at the time) and the best player (that year), did what he did, with that roster and brought back the city of New Orleans after that horrific Hurricane Katrina.

Salute to Chris Paul.

[CENTER][IMG]http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5257/5467706222_ec055944d1.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER]

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2008.html[/url][/QUOTE]

Kobe was easily the best player in 08

[QUOTE=JordanTime]defensively? Kobe Bryant making last season all NBA 1st defensive team, shows you how bad this league is screwed up. Kobe Bryant is overrated.

Excellent Offense kills o.k. Defense[/QUOTE]

Whether or not you agree with Kobe Bryant making his [B][U]11th [/U][/B] all defensive team isn't really relevant in the defensive comparison between Magic and Kobe.

It's 11 vs 0, not 11 vs 10.

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]Whether or not you agree with Kobe Bryant making his [B][U]11th [/U][/B] all defensive team isn't really relevant in the defensive comparison between Magic and Kobe.

It's 11 vs 0, not 11 vs 10.[/QUOTE]
He shouldn't have 10 either. Or 9. Or 8. Or 7.

[QUOTE=RRR3]He shouldn't have 10 either. Or 9. Or 8. Or 7.[/QUOTE]

or 6? or 5? or 4? or 3? or 2? or 1? :oldlol:

If we are going to pretend that Magic and Kobe are in the same galaxy on defense we might as well pretend that Kobe has some sort of mind control on all the coaches in the league that have recognized his defensive skills throughout his career and they ALL have been unwarranted.

Its just truly amazing that Kobe somehow according to ISHers reaps awards off his defensive reputation still to this day yet somehow never did anything to earn that defensive reputation in the first place. Its truly one of life's biggest mysteries. It also funny how only Kobe's awards have been influenced by his reputation. It began with Kobe and only Kobe.

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]or 6? or 5? or 4? or 3? or 2? or 1? :oldlol:

If we are going to pretend that Magic and Kobe are in the same galaxy on defense we might as well pretend that Kobe has some sort of mind control on all the coaches in the league that have recognized his defensive skills throughout his career and they ALL have been unwarranted.[/QUOTE]
Noticed I stopped after 7. :rolleyes: IDK how many he really should have, but no more than 5 or 6.

[QUOTE=The-Legend-24]Damn, you just went full retard.[/QUOTE]

When has Kobe ever deserved a MVP?

05-06? When the Lakers failed to win 50+ games..............not in this league buddy. (No League's MVP team had failed to win over 50+ games)

06-07? See Above. (No League's MVP team had failed to win over 50+ games)

07-08? [url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6380710&postcount=288[/url]

Chris Paul was the [B]REAL MVP [/B]of the 2007-2008 NBA Season!

Please explain.

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]or 6? or 5? or 4? or 3? or 2? or 1? :oldlol:

If we are going to pretend that Magic and Kobe are in the same galaxy on defense we might as well pretend that Kobe has some sort of mind control on all the coaches in the league that have recognized his defensive skills throughout his career and they ALL have been unwarranted.[/QUOTE]

magic actually averaged more steals per game, and was often tasked with guarding 6-1 point guards who were obviously a lot quicker than him

was kobe a better defender? sure. but they're in the same galaxy, maybe even the same solar system

[QUOTE=RRR3]Noticed I stopped after 7. :rolleyes: IDK how many he really should have, but no more than 5 or 6.[/QUOTE]

6 is more than 1st team defenses than Kareem, more than Bruce Bowen, more than Michael Cooper, more than Ben Wallace, more than Hakeem Olajuwon. You are going to have to take away more than that to pretend that Kobe isn't a significantly more accomplished and talented defender than Magic Johnson.

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]6 is more than 1st team defenses than Kareem, more than Bruce Bowen, more than Michael Cooper, more than Ben Wallace, more than Hakeem Olajuwon. You are going to have to take away more than that to pretend that Kobe isn't a significantly more accomplished and talented defender than Magic Johnson.[/QUOTE]

I meant 6 total. Most 2nd team probably. And when did I say Kobe wasn't a good deal better than Magic on D? Not arguing this but Kobe doesn't deserve more than 2 or 3 first team all D selections.

[QUOTE=RRR3]I meant 6 total. Most 2nd team probably. And when did I say Kobe wasn't a good deal better than Magic on D? Not arguing this but Kobe doesn't deserve more than 2 or 3 first team all D selections.[/QUOTE]

Why wouldn't you argue it? Why make the statement if your not going to back it up with anything? Because you know it sounds ridiculous?

Magic Johnson only deserved 2 or 3 first team all nba awards but I'm not going to argue it. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]Why wouldn't you argue it? Why make the statement if your not going to back it up with anything? Because you know it sounds ridiculous?

Magic Johnson only deserved 2 or 3 first team all nba awards but I'm not going to argue it. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

Kobe Bryant has always been overrated defensively. In no way should Kobe Bryant own 11 total All NBA Defensive teams. I'd say he should only have a couple. And that was time when Shaq was around.

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]or 6? or 5? or 4? or 3? or 2? or 1? :oldlol:

If we are going to pretend that Magic and Kobe are in the same galaxy on defense we might as well pretend that Kobe has some sort of mind control on all the coaches in the league that have recognized his defensive skills throughout his career and they ALL have been unwarranted.

Its just truly amazing that Kobe somehow according to ISHers reaps awards off his defensive reputation still to this day yet somehow never did anything to earn that defensive reputation in the first place. Its truly one of life's biggest mysteries. It also funny how only Kobe's awards have been influenced by his reputation. It began with Kobe and only Kobe.[/QUOTE]

No were not pretending that, at all. Kobe's defense is just no game changer to me. That article proves it.

And no all-defense first team defender ? Shaq's presence in the paint alone is more impact defensively than that off any wing defender. He also was runner up for DPOY in 2000 (should have won it really). Also when you say held down to low PER, it doesn't necessarily mean that Kobe guarded them the whole game. Also, Ron Artest was a former DPOY winner joining that team.

Okay, so let me get this straight. Only on ISH, Kobe reaps benefits from reputation ? Um, let's see:

[url]http://asubstituteforwar.com/2011/05/09/kobe-bryant-the-most-overrated-defender-imaginable/[/url]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsTaiCgtwNA[/url]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cueDm2Nkl3s[/url]

[url]http://www.clublakers.com/lakers-discussion/even-must-admit-kobe-defense-very-overrated-t82574-40.html[/url]

[url]http://basketbawful.blogspot.com/2007/03/tex-winter-agrees-with-basketbawful.html[/url]

[url]http://basketbawful.blogspot.com/2007/03/kobe-nash-and-defensive-myth.html[/url]

[url]http://www.clipsnation.com/2009/5/11/872400/the-myth-of-kobe[/url]

[url]http://bleacherreport.com/articles/445288-kobe-bryant-the-man-the-myth-the-legend#/articles/445288-kobe-bryant-the-man-the-myth-the-legend/page/4[/url]

Yet all these sources and Tex Winter say that he coasts or either doesn't play sound defense correctly ? That some of his All-NBA Defense First Teams are a joke ? Yes, only on ISH, apparently.

And again, nobody said he didn't deserve All-Defense First team, you are. That's the problem with some of you Kobe homers. You exgerrate so much B.S. about others opinions because you are so insecure if someone brings these things into context. It's like you vicariously live through Kobe.

It's funny how only Kobe's fan base can genereate this much insecurity about other people's opinions and objectivity about the man. It sounds like, it began with Kobe and only Kobe.

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]No were not pretending that, at all. Kobe's defense is just no game changer to me. That article proves it.

And no all-defense first team defender ? Shaq's presence in the paint alone is more impact defensively than that off any wing defender. He also was runner up for DPOY in 2000 (should have won it really). Also when you say held down to low PER, it doesn't necessarily mean that Kobe guarded them the whole game. Also, Ron Artest was a former DPOY winner joining that team.

Okay, so let me get this straight. Only on ISH, Kobe reaps benefits from reputation ? Um, let's see:

[url]http://asubstituteforwar.com/2011/05/09/kobe-bryant-the-most-overrated-defender-imaginable/[/url]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsTaiCgtwNA[/url]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cueDm2Nkl3s[/url]

[url]http://www.clublakers.com/lakers-discussion/even-must-admit-kobe-defense-very-overrated-t82574-40.html[/url]

[url]http://basketbawful.blogspot.com/2007/03/tex-winter-agrees-with-basketbawful.html[/url]

[url]http://basketbawful.blogspot.com/2007/03/kobe-nash-and-defensive-myth.html[/url]

[url]http://www.clipsnation.com/2009/5/11/872400/the-myth-of-kobe[/url]

[url]http://bleacherreport.com/articles/445288-kobe-bryant-the-man-the-myth-the-legend#/articles/445288-kobe-bryant-the-man-the-myth-the-legend/page/4[/url]

Yet all these sources and Tex Winter say that he coasts or either doesn't play sound defense correctly ? That some of his All-NBA Defense First Teams are a joke ? Yes, only on ISH, apparently.

And again, nobody said he didn't deserve All-Defense First team, you are. That's the problem with some of you Kobe homers. You exgerrate so much B.S. about others opinions because you are so insecure if someone brings these things into context. It's like you vicariously live through Kobe.

It's funny how only Kobe's fan base can genereate this much insecurity about other people's opinions and objectivity about the man. It sounds like, it began with Kobe and only Kobe.[/QUOTE]

Wow amazing post, and thanks for the links.

Love that first article, i re-call reading that when it was first posted online.

[QUOTE=JordanTime]Wow amazing post, and thanks for the links.

Love that first article, i re-call reading that when it was first posted online.[/QUOTE]

No problem.

I'm not even denying Kobe has been a solid defender in the past. He's just hasn't been all that deserving off these first teams.

Some people just hate on the objective look. Also this link too from Real GM:

[url]http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=911506[/url]

Yet ISH is the only place that thinks about Kobe this way...

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]No problem.

I'm not even denying Kobe has been a solid defender in the past. He's just hasn't been all that deserving off these first teams.

Some people just hate on the objective look. Also this link too from Real GM:

[url]http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=911506[/url][/QUOTE]

Yeah, Kobe does deserve a few, but 11!! Just shows you how much of a joke this award has become.

Tony Allen
Wesley Johnson
Dwayne Wade
Keith Bogans
Joe Johnson

were all better defensively last season. I could add a few more guys to that list.

just so everyone can see this

[IMG]http://asubstituteforwar.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/defrapm1011.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]No problem.

I'm not even denying Kobe has been a solid defender in the past. He's just hasn't been all that deserving off these first teams.

Some people just hate on the objective look. Also this link too from Real GM:

[url]http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=911506[/url]

Yet ISH is the only place that thinks about Kobe this way...[/QUOTE]

Hmmmmm NBA coaches or random internet message board posters???

Which opinion should we value more?

Hating on Kobe has been a passion for many since he declared for the draft. I would be surprised if you could find any awards he has been given that wasn't accompanied on the net by some random internet message board experts arguing against its selection.

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]Hmmmmm NBA coaches or random internet message board posters???

Which opinion should we value more?

Hating on Kobe has been a passion for many since he declared for the draft. I would be surprised if you could find any awards he has been given that wasn't accompanied on the net by some random internet message board experts arguing against its selection.[/QUOTE]

Nice to see you ignore my previous post that had Tex Winter say this about Kobe:

[IMG]http://basketbawful.blogspot.com/2007/03/tex-winter-agrees-with-basketbawful.html[/IMG]

The main message that Winter, a Lakers consultant, would like to get across to Bryant is that the problem is not his offense.

"I’d like to see him [U][B]play better defense[/B][/U]," Winter said, adding that he had addressed the issue recently with Bryant but didn't come away with the idea that Bryant was intent on changing his approach.

"You know Kobe," Winter said with a chuckle. "He has his game plan. I think he heard me. But he feels there's a certain way he’s got to play the game. But it doesn’t involve a lot of [B][U]basically sound defense."[/U][/B]

Because the Lakers need so much of his effort at the offensive end, Bryant [B][U]has adopted a save-energy plan on the defensive end[/U][/B], Winter said. "He's basically playing a lot of one-man zone. He's doing a lot of switching, zoning up, trying to come up with the interception.

"The way [U][B]Kobe plays defensively affects the team[/B][/U]," Winter added. "[U][B]Anybody that doesn’t play consistently good defense hurts the team.[/B][/U] That's not only Kobe. Our other guards tend to gamble and get beat. Another problem is that the screen and roll is not played correctly."


You are the one who said only ISH says this about Kobe and I should you Real GM, Lakers Forums, Youtube, etc... Didn't know exactly what you were trying to say.

Hating on Kobe ? No, it has nothing to do with "hate". Why every damn Kobe fan uses this to deflect the topic at hand is beyond me. I've never even met the man. But yes, I "hate" him.

Don't get surprised that this stuff pops up. I don't personally agree with some of them, but if were going to go with some Kobe half-truth's, we can go with the Kobe objectivity as well.

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]Nice to see you ignore my previous post that had Tex Winter say this about Kobe:

[IMG]http://basketbawful.blogspot.com/2007/03/tex-winter-agrees-with-basketbawful.html[/IMG]

You are the one who said only ISH says this about Kobe and I should you Real GM, Lakers Forums, Youtube, etc... Didn't know exactly what you were trying to say.

Hating on Kobe ? No, it has nothing to do with "hate". Why every damn Kobe fan uses this to deflect the topic at hand is beyond me. I've never even met the man. But yes, I "hate" him.

Don't get surprised that this stuff pops up. I don't personally agree with some of them, but if were going to go with some Kobe half-truth's, we can go with the Kobe objectivity as well.[/QUOTE]

Of course it does. Kobe's accolades are treated with a fine toothed comb. No other legend gets the same treatment. Do you see anybody really hyped about how many all defensive team awards Michael Jordan [I]really[/I] earned? When he won the DPOY did anybody bother to create some obscure formula like regularized adjusted +/- (RAPM) to find out that the best defensive player was probably some scrub big man who wouldnt even be in the league without his defensive abilities?

The idea of any player Kobe included winning awards based on his past reputation is even remotely controversial. The funny thing is you guys like to pretend this phenomena begins and ends with Kobe. Every single legend in this game has had a reputation that over inflated his perceived skills as their career progressed. Magic made the all star team for a year he didn't even play. He's won a Finals MVP on the basis of a single game.

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]Nice to see you ignore my previous post that had Tex Winter say this about Kobe:

[IMG]http://basketbawful.blogspot.com/2007/03/tex-winter-agrees-with-basketbawful.html[/IMG]

The main message that Winter, a Lakers consultant, would like to get across to Bryant is that the problem is not his offense.

"I

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]Of course it does. Kobe's accolades are treated with a fine toothed comb. No other legend gets the same treatment. Do you see anybody really hyped about how many all defensive team awards Michael Jordan [I]really[/I] earned? When he won the DPOY did anybody bother to create some obscure formula like regularized adjusted +/- (RAPM) to find out that the best defensive player was probably some scrub big man who wouldnt even be in the league without his defensive abilities?

The idea of any player Kobe included winning awards based on his past reputation is even remotely controversial. The funny thing is you guys like to pretend this phenomena begins and ends with Kobe. Every single legend in this game has had a reputation that over inflated his perceived skills as their career progressed. Magic made the all star team for a year he didn't even play. He's won a Finals MVP on the basis of a single game.[/QUOTE]
Simple question since you seem to watch Kobe a lot. Did he deserve the 1st team award in 11.

[B]BREAKING NEWS! Tex Winter said Michael Jordan is the worst passer in NBA History!!![/B]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/8pUmr.png[/IMG]

:facepalm

[QUOTE=juju151111]Simple question since you seem to watch Kobe a lot. Did he deserve the 1st team award in 11.[/QUOTE]


[IMG]http://asubstituteforwar.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/defrapm1011.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=juju151111]Simple question since you seem to watch Kobe a lot. Did he deserve the 1st team award in 11.[/QUOTE]

I don't know. I watched the Lakers. I didn't Wesley Johnson play lockdown defense "according to the advanced stats" for one of the worst defenses in the league for 82 games.

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot][B]BREAKING NEWS! Tex Winter said Michael Jordan is the worst passer in NBA History!!![/B]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/8pUmr.png[/IMG]

:facepalm[/QUOTE]
Total missed the point if you own evidence. Dumb has hell. It was a motivational tatic. MJ said it himself you dumbass. Phil knows how he ticks. I do agree with you through to an extent. I think Kobe deserves Atleast 4-5 and a few 2nd team. I don't know why this is relevant because a blind man can see Magic has no defense. Go watch any game and I mean any game when he vs a decent Pg.

[QUOTE=juju151111]Total missed the point if you own evidence. Dumb has hell. It was a motivational tatic. MJ said it himself you dumbass. Phil knows how he ticks. I do agree with you through to an extent. I think Kobe deserves Atleast 4-5 and a few 2nd team. I don't know why this is relevant because a blind man can see Magic has no defense. Go watch any game and I mean any game when he vs a decent Pg.[/QUOTE]

Magic Johnson didn't guard opposing teams point guards.

Magic Johnson guarded either the 2,3,4. aka a Versatlie Defender.

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]I don't know. I watched the Lakers. I didn't Wesley Johnson play lockdown defense "according to the advanced stats" for one of the worst defenses in the league for 82 games.[/QUOTE]
Hmm I watch the lakes too. Ok since you do then you will agree with me that Kobe has turned into a roamer on defense and gives up 3 pointers all the time. He hasn't been solid in about 2-3 years. I mean you watch the lakes right?

[QUOTE=juju151111]Total missed the point if you own evidence. Dumb has hell. It was a motivational tatic. MJ said it himself you dumbass. Phil knows how he ticks. I do agree with you through to an extent. I think Kobe deserves Atleast 4-5 and a few 2nd team. I don't know why this is relevant because a blind man can see Magic has no defense. Go watch any game and I mean any game when he vs a decent Pg.[/QUOTE]

Of course. Tex Winter was hypercritical to his legendary players. Its an exaggeration. It doesn't invalidate 11 all nba awards.

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]I don't know. I watched the Lakers. I didn't Wesley Johnson play lockdown defense "according to the advanced stats" for one of the worst defenses in the league for 82 games.[/QUOTE]

well i do remember Wesley Johnson locking down Kobe Bryant numerous times last season.......that was probably the reason i had him there.

[QUOTE=JordanTime]Magic Johnson didn't guard opposing teams point guards.

Magic Johnson guarded either the 2,3,4. aka a Versatlie Defender.[/QUOTE]
Stop your horseshit. He guarded mostly pg. I am a MJ too, but stop. Baton lit his ass up mist of the time. He had no lateral movement.

[QUOTE=juju151111]Hmm I watch the lakes too. Ok since you do then you will agree with me that Kobe has turned into a roamer on defense and gives up 3 pointers all the time. He hasn't been solid in about 2-3 years. I mean you watch the lakes right?[/QUOTE]

Roaming is playing defense. Its a strategy, that has resulted in two titles and three years of a top 6 defense for the Lakers. Do you really think if Kobe wanted to sit on top of a guy at the 3 pt line in order avoid "his guy" from scoring at the expense of playing team defense it would make the Lakers a better defensive team?

[QUOTE=juju151111]Stop your horseshit. He guarded mostly pg. I am a MJ too, but stop. Baton lit his ass up mist of the time. He had no lateral movement.[/QUOTE]

Are you kidding me?

Magic Johnson was rarely guarding other team's opposing PG's. He was guarding 2,3,4, while Bryon Scott defended the 1's. C'mon man.

And i didn't say Magic Johnson was a good defender, i said he was a versatile defender.......................BIG DIFFERENCE.