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It always intrigues me how the early Bulls team would have played out had they kept Oakley and used Horace as the trade piece for a center instead.
Ho Grant played his role well but he really was a bitch of a man on the court. Zero toughness at all and Oak was the exact opposite. Who knows, maybe the Bulls could have been even better.
[QUOTE=FilmyCogTurner;14646985]It always intrigues me how the early Bulls team would have played out had they kept Oakley and used Horace as the trade piece for a center instead.
Ho Grant played his role well but he really was a bitch of a man on the court. Zero toughness at all and Oak was the exact opposite. Who knows, maybe the Bulls could have been even better.[/QUOTE]
Oakley was close with MJ too. Hard to imagine that the Bulls would have been better without Horace though. He was the key to their full court press that they could use to put any team away at any time. They didn't have that in the 2nd repeat. They both played D but Horace was more versatile and athletic than Oakley. Don't remember Oakley being considered a great defender until later on the Knicks either. They both could hit it from mid range. Oakley was a better rebounder and passer. He couldn't jump at all
[QUOTE=theman93;14646944]Yeah bro not even close........even though the Pistons beat the #1 seed Celtics in '88 with the Celtics having homecourt advantage and McHale putting up 27/7 and Bird putting up 20/12/6/3/2. And that was before they were even a title team. They were 3 points away from 3-peating.[/QUOTE]
What separated the early-mid 80's Celtics teams from their late 80s version was their bench. By '88 KC Jones strictly played their starters it seemed.
Not to mention DJ was on the decline by '88, Parish regressed a bit and McHale was never really the same after he broke his foot in '87, especially oh the defensive end.
Again, history looks at the Celtics as the better team. Shit, the Rockets repeated in the mid 90's, would you dare say they were better than the mid 80's Celtics just because they repeated as champs? Lol
[QUOTE=RRR3;14646948]No one has ever been held to these standards at LeBron’s age. People were happy when Kobe hit a shot when he was 37. I’m sorry LeBron isn’t immortal and can’t impact a team the same way forever like you think he should be able to[/QUOTE]
ah, so when lebron’s team is doing good and everything is fine; it’s “omg lebron is doing this at 37, he’s the goat and better than jordan” the inverse it’s “sorry lebron isn’t immortal, he’s only 37 cut him some slack” :lol
you ****** are honestly shameless, it’s impressive how increasingly delusional you lot got every year as ive lurked this forum :lol
[QUOTE=outofstomach;14647024]ah, so when lebron’s team is doing good and everything is fine; it’s “omg lebron is doing this at 37, he’s the goat and better than jordan” the inverse it’s “sorry lebron isn’t immortal, he’s only 37 cut him some slack” :lol
you ****** are honestly shameless, it’s impressive how increasingly delusional you lot got every year as ive lurked this forum :lol[/QUOTE]
The double standard really is hilarious :lol
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14647023]What separated the early-mid 80's Celtics teams from their late 80s version was their bench. By '88 KC Jones strictly played their starters it seemed.
Not to mention DJ was on the decline by '88, Parish regressed a bit and McHale was never really the same after he broke his foot in '87, especially oh the defensive end.
Again, history looks at the Celtics as the better team. Shit, the Rockets repeated in the mid 90's, would you dare say they were better than the mid 80's Celtics just because they repeated as champs? Lol[/QUOTE]
The only Celtic team I would put over the '89 Pistons are the '86 Celtics. Every other year is a toss up.
LeBron is better.
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14646781]Nice cop out[/QUOTE]
Hey thats the reality. Doesnt mean you have to like it. :confusedshrug:
[QUOTE=Axe;14646791]But those aren't dynasties coach. Since someone said 'dynasties' have to 'three-peat' first. :roll:[/QUOTE]
If thats your argument.
Do you concede that I'm correct about dynasties?
Otherwise you just shot yourself.
[QUOTE=SATAN;14647120]LeBron is better.[/QUOTE]
...at getting empty stats. FACTS
[QUOTE=Bawkish;14647140]...at getting empty stats. FACTS[/QUOTE]
Maybe the not great offensive players or has beens should have done all the scoring. LeBron shouldn't have even shot the ball at all. Shouldn't have even tried.
[QUOTE=Baller789;14647137]If thats your argument.
Do you concede that I'm correct about dynasties?
Otherwise you just shot yourself.[/QUOTE]
Sure, if it makes you feel better mentally. Us non-casuals personally think that your self-indulgent opinion is dumb tho. :oldlol:
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;14646981]Who cares that he had Oakley? They traded Oakley because they liked Horace better. Oakley nor Horace were all stars like a couple of those guys mentioned[/QUOTE]
Well, Oakley was a good role player and the enforcer on CHI those years. I'm saying he had Oakley, but LeBron's cast was still better.
[QUOTE=Axe;14647170]Sure, if it makes you feel better mentally. Us non-casuals personally think that your self-indulgent opinion is dumb tho. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Actually its really strange that you would try to use someone else's argument and try to imply it to someone else.
Bronies are really struggling with this one. Only way they could respond is through moving goalposts and deceit.
[QUOTE=Baller789;14647214]Actually its really strange that you would try to use someone else's argument and try to imply it to someone else.[/QUOTE]
Because you would clearly have issues if they use the term 'dynasty' in describing teams you think they shouldn't be describing with the said term.
[QUOTE=Axe;14647217]Because you would clearly have issues if they use the term 'dynasty' in describing teams you think they shouldn't be describing with the said term.[/QUOTE]
Well no one was able to disprove my point. Despite all your frustrations and efforts.
Feel free to try again and make a thread about it. I dont want to derail this one.
Still that doesnt justify using my talking points when they are contrary to yours. Its odd.
Contrary? Lmao i bet even coach himself had to scratch his own head when he saw what you thought about it.
Axe i suggest you argue your point rather than arguing your ego.
I said enough in this thread. As I've said if you have anything to argue about that, make a thread about it, I would be happy to participate in it.
Yeah you don't like to get exposed. Ok bub.
[QUOTE=theman93;14646250]Wizards jordon was so much worse than 37 year old Lebron that he led the 2002 Wizards to a better record than the 2022 Lakers in less games started and with a much worse supporting cast.
Also, MJ was atleast an all-star at age 39. Duncan and Malone were not.[/QUOTE]
Jordan didnt make any allnba teams those years.
Man I missed this beautiful thread.
Wizards years are good sampling to show the world that jordan does not have good longevity at all.
Tim duncan, kareem, malone, leBron, hell even cp3 made all-nba teams at 37.
This is why LeBron will be remembered as the greatest. There just isn't anyone that can match Bron over 19 years and 18 all-nba teams.
Bron's 18 all-nba teams is probably the most unbreakable record in the nba.
[QUOTE=8Ball;14648333]Wizards years are good sampling to show the world that jordan does not have good longevity at all.
Tim duncan, kareem, malone, leBron, hell even cp3 made all-nba teams at 37.
This is why LeBron will be remembered as the greatest. There just isn't anyone that can match Bron over 19 years and 18 all-nba teams.
Bron's 18 all-nba teams is probably the most unbreakable record in the nba.[/QUOTE]
Terrible argunent as per usual :roll:
[QUOTE=8Ball;14648329]Jordan didnt make any allnba teams those years.
Man I missed this beautiful thread.[/QUOTE]
Didn't make All-NBA as a washed up old man, yet led the Wizards to a better record than what Lebron, as an All-NBA player, could lead the Lakers to. Absolutely incredible.
[QUOTE=theman93;14648435]Didn't make All-NBA as a washed up old man, yet led the Wizards to a better record than what Lebron, as an All-NBA player, could lead the Lakers to. Absolutely incredible.[/QUOTE]
The voters saw Jordan's gameplay and refused to give him any all-nba teams. That means nobody thought he was even the 15th best player in the NBA at the time. No longevity.
Bron made all-nba team for the 18th year in a row in 2022. That means the voters believed he was amongst the top 15 players at age 37. And it was a tossup between Bron and Kevin Durant for 2nd team all-nba.
LeBron is an old ass 37 year old and it was between him and Kevin Durant for all-nba 2nd team. Jordan at that age was like a top 30 player.
[QUOTE=Baller789;14648423]Terrible argunent as per usual :roll:[/QUOTE]
Everything I wrote is correct.
[QUOTE=8Ball;14648487]Everything I wrote is correct.[/QUOTE]
Wrong. You typed it.
[QUOTE=8Ball;14648485]The voters saw Jordan's gameplay and refused to give him any all-nba teams. [B]That means nobody thought he was even the 15th best player in the NBA at the time[/B]. No longevity.
Bron made all-nba team for the 18th year in a row in 2022. That means the voters believed he was amongst the top 15 players at age 37. And it was a tossup between Bron and Kevin Durant for 2nd team all-nba.
LeBron is an old ass 37 year old and it was between him and Kevin Durant for all-nba 2nd team. Jordan at that age was like a top 30 player.[/QUOTE]
Tell me you don't know how All-NBA voting works without telling me you don't know how All-NBA voting works. :lol
Old, "barely top 30 player" washed up MJ with an even worse supporting cast still led the Wizards to a better record than what All-NBA Lebron led the Lakers to. Imagine that. Absolutely incredible.
If Jordan played good he would have won at least 1st 2nd or 3rd team all-nba. He didn't and got booted out of the league.
Last season it was a tossup between LeBron or Durant for all-nba 2nd team. Jordan is not getting any kind of comparisons like that on the Wizards.
Debate end.
Durant accumulated 276 voter points to Lebron's 169. But you go on about that "toss up". :lol
Anyways, washed up MJ who went on to get booted out of the league still led the Wizards to the better record than All-NBA Lebron with a worse supporting cast. His team value was simply just greater. Absolutely incredible.
[QUOTE=theman93;14648656]Durant accumulated 276 voter points to Lebron's 169. But you go on about that "toss up". :lol
Anyways, washed up MJ who went on to get booted out of the league still led the Wizards to the better record than All-NBA Lebron with a worse supporting cast. His team value was simply just greater. Absolutely incredible.[/QUOTE]
Jordan accumulated how many voter points? 0?
Absolutely incredible.
[quote][B][U][I]Wizards jordon was worse than nearly any all-time great who played until his late 30s[/I][/U][/B]
What all-time greats who played at age 37+ is Wizards jordon NOT worse than?
LeBron
Kareem
Karl Malone
Tim Duncan
are/were all clearly better.[/quote]
True.
I know it pains you that so many people think Bron is the GOAT. But that's a fact now. It can't be changed. Jordan no longer has undisputed GOAT claims.
Many people still think Jordan is the GOAT, that's fine. I think he is #2 which isn't even an insult.
[QUOTE=Baller789;14648608]Wrong. You typed it.[/QUOTE]
I'm glad you admit everything I typed was correct. Everything here is factual:
Wizards years are good sampling to show the world that jordan does not have good longevity at all.
Tim duncan, kareem, malone, leBron, hell even cp3 made all-nba teams at 37.
This is why LeBron will be remembered as the greatest. There just isn't anyone that can match Bron over 19 years and 18 all-nba teams.
Bron's 18 all-nba teams is probably the most unbreakable record in the nba.
[QUOTE=8Ball;14648922]Jordan accumulated how many voter points? 0?
Absolutely incredible.[/QUOTE]
0 voter points and yet still led the Wizards to a better record than Lebron who accumulated 169 voter points. So yes, you are right it is absolutely incredible. :applause:
[QUOTE=theman93;14648935]0 voter points and yet still led the Wizards to a better record than Lebron who accumulated 169 voter points. So yes, you are right it is absolutely incredible. :applause:[/QUOTE]
169 > 0. All-nba is an individual award.
You switch to team accomplishments when comparing individual players. Like championships are also team accomplishments.
Individually, Bron is just superior.
Michael Jordan at 37: 22/5/5 on 41%
Bron at 37: 30/8/6 on 52%
Bron is being offered a max deal right now at 37 by the Lakers. Nobody was offering Jordan the max.
[QUOTE=8Ball;14648936]169 > 0. All-nba is an individual award.
You switch to team accomplishments when comparing individual players. Like championships are also team accomplishments.
Individually, Bron is just superior.[/QUOTE]
In case you need to be reminded, this thread was a comparison of better/worse than - which extends beyond just individual performance. It's also inclusive to which individual was better at team elevation. To which washed up Wizards jordon was greater at elevating his team than All-NBA super star Lebron was with the better supporting cast. Absolute bonkers.
[QUOTE=8Ball;14648939]Michael Jordan at 37: 22/5/5 on 41%
Bron at 37: 30/8/6 on 52%
Bron is being offered a max deal right now at 37 by the Lakers. Nobody was offering Jordan the max.[/QUOTE]
This is a really good point, and I'm glad you brought it up. It just highlights the discrepancy even further that the significantly better, All-NBA, max-level player Lebron wasn't as great at elevating his team as old man Wizards jordon was. This is a stunning revelation.
[QUOTE=8Ball;14648485]
LeBron is an old ass 37 year old and it was between him and Kevin Durant for all-nba 2nd team. Jordan at that age was like a top 30 player.[/QUOTE]
You keep dodging the question. If Lebron was so much better why did the Lakers finish with a significantly worse record than Jordan's Wizard's?
Secret answer down below...
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Lebron is the empty stats king.
[QUOTE=theman93;14648981]This is a really good point, and I'm glad you brought it up. It just highlights the discrepancy even further that the significantly better, All-NBA, max-level player Lebron wasn't as great at elevating his team as old man Wizards jordon was. This is a stunning revelation.[/QUOTE]
It goes to show how the stats doesn't always tell the full story. Jordan can in fact have worse stats and yet still be the better basketball player.
Something the Bronsexuals will never understand.
[QUOTE=8Ball;14648926]I'm glad you admit everything I typed was correct. Everything here is factual:
Wizards years are good sampling to show the world that jordan does not have good longevity at all.
Tim duncan, kareem, malone, leBron, hell even cp3 made all-nba teams at 37.
This is why LeBron will be remembered as the greatest. There just isn't anyone that can match Bron over 19 years and 18 all-nba teams.
Bron's 18 all-nba teams is probably the most unbreakable record in the nba.[/QUOTE]
Excellent post.
Either 18 x all-NBA or his all-time playoff scoring record. Those are about equally unbreakable.
Meanwhile, it is flat out embarrassing that jordon failed to make an all-NBA team the season Jamal Mashburn made one (the only one of his career) :facepalm
[QUOTE=TheGoatest;14649006]Excellent post.
Either 18 x all-NBA or his all-time playoff scoring record. Those are about equally unbreakable.
Meanwhile, it is flat out embarrassing that jordon failed to make an all-NBA team the season Jamal Mashburn made one (the only one of his career) :facepalm[/QUOTE]
This is so true. The flat out embarassing Wizards jordon who failed to make All-NBA over All-NBA virgin Jamal Mashburn was greater at elevating his team than All-NBA super star Lebron. That is crazy the more you think about it.