MJ's 1988 DPOY is now being "Questioned". HOME vs ROAD Steals has twice as much Gap

[QUOTE=theman93;14924515]Atlanta at Chicago: Nov. 20, 1987: Atlanta 10 turnovers | MJ 4 steals

Indiana at Chicago: Jan. 5, 1988: Indiana 17 turnovers | MJ 4 steals

Denver at Chicago: Jan. 7, 1988: Denver 14 turnovers | MJ 6 steals

Boston at Chicago: Mar. 18, 1988: Boston 16 turnovers | MJ 5 steals

Detroit at Chicago: Jan. 16, 1988: Detroit 15 turnovers | MJ 4 steals

Atlanta at Chicago: Feb. 15, 1988: Atlanta 10 turnovers | MJ 5 steals

That equates to essentially triple the amount of turnovers per steal for the allegedly cooked games LOL. Stop the pressers everybody that is totally not believable!! :roll::roll::roll:[/QUOTE]

I take back my earlier post, you are that slow. And lazy to boot. He never once said whatever it is you're attempting to do there with your post. You're not even sure what you're arguing here are you? Keep up. One of the Atlanta games has 10 turnovers, 10 Bulls Steals and Mj is credited with 3 steals he never made, along with a strange 3 unreported dead ball turnovers. The rest of the games were watched and notes taken with Mj credited with more phantom steals/blocks. And again the article came to be after research with data, whether or not you want to cover your eyes is on you, I know the movie is scary.

[QUOTE=gengiskhan;14924516][B]where are the 6 AWAY games! if the author did the work[/B]

The way Rookie MJ took NBA by storm, there was tons of Jealousy reported. Particularly, from Houston and Portland that went #1 and #2. Even LAL and Celtics were somewhat jealous (including Magic and Isiah). Larry was the only one who gave full props to rookie MJ in Media. Larry literally mentioned "nobody I've seen ever plays like him"

I want houston, portland (teams that could've drafted MJ) and LAL AWAY games included in 6 away games. that author should've included by being BALANCED and REASONABLE.

Author tried to "hoodwink" NBA fans.

Author failed at BALANCING the stats reporting. It was deliberately done!

stop this non-sense.[/QUOTE]

Would be nice to have but as i stated before thats an opening for you to be a hero. Otherwise sounds kinda like an escape hatch to me. If you jump I won't tell.:oldlol:

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14924523]I take back my earlier post, you are that slow. And lazy to boot. He never once said whatever it is you're attempting to do there with your post. You're not even sure what you're arguing here are you? Keep up. [B]One of the Atlanta games has 10 turnovers, 10 Bulls Steals and [U]Mj is credited with 3 steals he never made, along with a strange 3 unreported dead ball turnovers. The rest of the games were watched and notes taken with Mj credited with more phantom steals/blocks[/U][/B]. And again the article came to be after research with data, whether or not you want to cover your eyes is on you, I know the movie is scary.[/QUOTE]

Again, allegedly. Are you a flat earther?

[QUOTE=theman93;14924526]Again, allegedly. Are you a flat earther?[/QUOTE]

Do you say allegedly when any Lebron report comes out? Your next will be your 1st. Also discrediting the messenger is the 1st step to an L. Fyi

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14924528]Do you say allegedly when any Lebron report comes out? Your next will be your 1st. Also discrediting the messenger is the 1st step to an L. Fyi[/QUOTE]

If 2 randoms 40 years from now claim they have footage nobody else has and say Lebron’s stats are fake to discredit an award from him, then yes. Lmao.

[QUOTE=theman93;14924532]If 2 randoms 40 years from now claim they have footage nobody else has and say Lebron’s stats are fake to discredit an award from him, then yes. Lmao.[/QUOTE]

Nah don't play dumb, Lebron has been the most reported on most criticized and sometimes most credited player for a long time. You run with any crumbs they give you, without data and take it as gospel. Keep that energy.

I don't know why this needs to go back and forth like this :lol

Home scorekeepers are going to be biased, particularly when it comes to star players on the team. Whether it's subconscious or not varies but this is the case in every sport that has any subjective aspect of scorekeeping. It's not some inconceivable thing.

You can take several hits or average points off of every superstar baseball player when you see how many times the home scorekeeper called something a hit that should have been an error. Yet no one gets up in arms about that. Well..other than pitchers who get charged earned runs that shouldn't be.

Point is, based on the history of American sports and how things have always operated, we can be almost certain that players at the time received preferential scorekeeping when playing at home. And being the biggest superstar in the game..Jordan almost certainly benefited more than pretty much anyone else on this one.

It is what it is, and it doesn't actually affect his legacy at all. But trying to deny that things like this happened as if Jordan was different than every other mega sporting figure ever is weird.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14924538]Nah don't play dumb, Lebron has been the most reported on most criticized and sometimes most credited player for a long time. You run with any crumbs they give you, without data and take it as gospel. Keep that energy.[/QUOTE]

Nice strawman, again. Go ahead and quote me. I'll wait :lol.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14924539]I don't know why this needs to go back and forth like this :lol

Home scorekeepers are going to be biased, particularly when it comes to star players on the team. Whether it's subconscious or not varies but this is the case in every sport that has any subjective aspect of scorekeeping. It's not some inconceivable thing.

You can take several hits or average points off of every superstar baseball player when you see how many times the home scorekeeper called something a hit that should have been an error. Yet no one gets up in arms about that. Well..other than pitchers who get charged earned runs that shouldn't be.

Point is, based on the history of American sports and how things have always operated, we can be almost certain that players at the time received preferential scorekeeping when playing at home. And being the biggest superstar in the game..Jordan almost certainly benefited more than pretty much anyone else on this one.

It is what it is, and it doesn't actually affect his legacy at all. But trying to deny that things like this happened as if Jordan was different than every other mega sporting figure ever is weird.[/QUOTE]

Exactly this.

[QUOTE=theman93;14924540]Nice strawman, again. Go ahead and quote me. I'll wait :lol.[/QUOTE]

Don't need to quote anyone I've clashed with enough times here bud. Everything youve posted just doesn't pass the smell test. That's all.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14924543]Don't need to quote anyone I've clashed with enough times here bud. Everything youve posted just doesn't pass the smell test. That's all.[/QUOTE]

In other words you can't quote one thing I've "ran" with. Stop making stuff up. It's getting weird.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14924477]This gets thrown at the window when the 90s Grizzlies scorekeeper has already been exposed to padding stats. Even the Lakers scorekeeper around that same time frame gave Van Exel fraud 23 assists in a game[/QUOTE]

Shake my head, I didn't think the cheating was this rampant in that era.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14924539]I don't know why this needs to go back and forth like this :lol

Home scorekeepers are going to be biased, particularly when it comes to star players on the team. Whether it's subconscious or not varies but this is the case in every sport that has any subjective aspect of scorekeeping. It's not some inconceivable thing.

You can take several hits or average points off of every superstar baseball player when you see how many times the home scorekeeper called something a hit that should have been an error. Yet no one gets up in arms about that. Well..other than pitchers who get charged earned runs that shouldn't be.

Point is, based on the history of American sports and how things have always operated, we can be almost certain that players at the time received preferential scorekeeping when playing at home. And being the biggest superstar in the game..Jordan almost certainly benefited more than pretty much anyone else on this one.

It is what it is, and it doesn't actually affect his legacy at all. But trying to deny that things like this happened as if Jordan was different than every other mega sporting figure ever is weird.[/QUOTE]

Scorekeepers aren't bias in this day and age, everything is tracked by NBA HQ as well all the teams getting footage on everyone.


However, when we compare today's players like LeBron vs Jordan, Bron is literally fighting an uphill battle against score keeper fraudulent padding the stats as well.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14924539]I don't know why this needs to go back and forth like this :lol

Home scorekeepers are going to be biased, particularly when it comes to star players on the team. Whether it's subconscious or not varies but this is the case in every sport that has any subjective aspect of scorekeeping. It's not some inconceivable thing.

You can take several hits or average points off of every superstar baseball player when you see how many times the home scorekeeper called something a hit that should have been an error. Yet no one gets up in arms about that. Well..other than pitchers who get charged earned runs that shouldn't be.

Point is, based on the history of American sports and how things have always operated, we can be almost certain that players at the time received preferential scorekeeping when playing at home. And being the biggest superstar in the game..Jordan almost certainly benefited more than pretty much anyone else on this one.

It is what it is, and it doesn't actually affect his legacy at all. But trying to deny that things like this happened as if Jordan was different than every other mega sporting figure ever is weird.[/QUOTE]

Thats only a 50% of the argument........There are some loopholes.

Once in a while comes a "freak athlete" that defies norms of the game. Wilt was that. MJ was that. MJs reflexes were lightening quick. atleast, the non-bulked, non-weight lifting version of MJ. The Pre-1991 MJ.

What HOME "stocks" scorekeepers eye-sight got eventually accustomed to. MJ's cat-light reflexes hence the nick name "black cat." He gambled on defense because he literally can and still get back on defense. Head coaches always talked about MJs defense, how "deceptively" quick he was. both with his body and particularly with hands. deflecting balls, stripping balls, creating chaos, jeopardizing the opponents flow of the game. Also, the lateral quickness, MJ was 2nd only to Rodman. In practice, Dough Collins literally saw how longer, taller Pippen's known lateral quickness was matched by shorter MJs loose, flexible hip, knee, shoulder joints. Both were neck and neck in lateral quickness trailing only Rodman (rodman was another freak athlete with light feet).

ROAD "stock" keepers or even refs might never get use to MJs Defensive game ever in terms of reflexes and quickness. They only saw him "once" or "twice" the whole season. What is an "unclean" solid strip of ball steal to MJ is now called "foul" on MJ. ref thinking MJ must have gotten some part of wrist as well as ball came loose. Whenever you see a "freak athlete" this was always a problem with refs and "stocks" score keepers.

Nobody suffered more than Shaq. Shaq was another freakish athlete. I literally counted watching live NBC game back in the days, Shaq was fouled 15 times atleast. clean, physical enough fouls. Because Shaq never cheated the game and "flopped" like LBJ, he got to the foul line 6-7 times, cant remember exactly. It is not Shaq's fault for being "freakishly strong", it is just pathetic refereeing. Shaq blocks. scoring player falls because of Shaq's strength. Shaq still blocked ball mostly maybe little hand. But remember, Hand and fingers are considered part of the scoring player's ball. shaq still got PF. Why? because scorer fell to the ground because of shaq's strength.

[QUOTE=theman93;14924544]In other words you can't quote one thing I've "ran" with. Stop making stuff up. It's getting weird.[/QUOTE]

TFOH with that, you're the most cookie cutter Mj stan on the board, not the weirdest but easily the most paint by the numbers. I don't care enough about your posting habits to sink any amount of time into digging up any quote for the obvious. Nice try to sidetrack away from proving the article wrong though, I applaud you but you've exhausted the entire denial playbook and haven't disproven a single thing stated.

It's impossible to watch old games and know which plays that Jordan was credited an assist, steal, or block because it normally isn't announced during the game and we don't have the play-by-play information - this matters in close calls where you don't know who the steal was credited to, or if the scorekeeper credited an assist on a certain play... For this reason, reviewing subjective plays like steals, blocks, assists or even rebounds cannot be done before play-by-play information began in 1997.

Nick Wright and Haberstroh quickly realized this when they reviewed the first close call and assumed it was awarded to Jordan before realizing "wait a minute... do we know that Jordan was awarded that steal?.. What if the scorekeeper awarded it to the other guy like we think it should be?"... This is why they invented the live-ball turnover method - it's never been reported before, so they hoped Jordan's steals from the boxscore were more than the live-ball turnovers they counted, thus proving fraudulent steals awarded to Jordan... However, reporting new things like live-ball turnovers requires showing your work - you can't provide a summary video of the turnovers because that isn't verification - the games must be posted otherwise it's invalid altogether.. Choosing games that can't be verified is clever and fraud.

Ultimately, the 6-game sample is meant to prove that the home inflation is due to cheating by record-keepers instead of normal for all players - every player across the league had one-offs of massive inflation at some point in their careers.. This includes modern players because AD's stocks were 55% higher in 2022, or Jaren Jackson's were 50% higher in 23', or Lebron's blocks were 120% higher during his rookie year and 73% higher in his 2nd year - and MJ had 80% inflation in 88'... These were all one-offs that occur for any number of reasons, while every other year these guys had "normal" inflation that has been decreasing over time as road conditions and records have improved., [I]The point is that Jordan's inflation, and everyone else's inflation isn't due to league-wide cheating by record-keepers[/I].

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14924625]TFOH with that, you're the most cookie cutter Mj stan on the board, not the weirdest but easily the most paint by the numbers. I don't care enough about your posting habits to sink any amount of time into digging up any quote for the obvious. Nice try to sidetrack away from proving the article wrong though, I applaud you but you've exhausted the entire denial playbook and haven't disproven a single thing stated.[/QUOTE]

Hearsay is not proof. You can’t disprove something that was never proved in the first place. That’s called illogic my friend. Seems you are too dull to understand that concept. Not surprising though /shrug.

[video=youtube;wpU59joEZhI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpU59joEZhI&lc=UgwKK-cP8GvgmDf_B9B4AaABAg[/video]

:applause:

.
[B]Thread Cliffs[/B]


Play-by-play information is required to know which plays to dispute and match a player's 5 steals from the boxscore to plays in the game - otherwise there's no way to know if you're looking at the right plays, thus compounding the errors.. A close call that you assume was awarded to Jordan could've already been awarded to the other guy... So it isn't possible to do what Haberstroh claims until 1997 when play-by-play information began.. But even then, stats like steals, assists and blocks are largely subjective, so there's no reason to believe that the 2nd subjective judgement is any better than the 1st one.

The live-ball turnover thing is innovative but it isn't believable that Jordan's steals were more than an entire team's live-ball turnovers.. So it requires showing your work, which hasn't been done because the games weren't posted or made available to anyone outside of the author, aka fraud.

Ultimately, all players have one-offs of massive inflation such as 120% and 73% higher blocks for Lebron as a rookie and sophomore, or 82% higher stocks for 88' Jordan, or 50-65% higher for 90' Hakeem, 22' AD and 23' Jaren Jackson... But these are all one-offs, otherwise every other year of their career had normal home inflation, which decreased over time as road records improved.. So the home inflation isn't due to bad record keeping - it's due to bad road records/conditions that improved over time, while the one-offs of massive inflation that every player has could be due to any number of reasons other than cheating, such as personal issues affecting home/road performance.

[QUOTE=theman93;14924705]Hearsay is not proof. You can’t disprove something that was never proved in the first place. That’s called illogic my friend. Seems you are too dull to understand that concept. Not surprising though /shrug.[/QUOTE]
Such a lazy and self destructive argument to pose, but ok. Whenever your point starts to cannibalize and contradict other points you've made/will make, you kinda show your level.
If the article where guys carried out their own research based on anomalous findings and concluded more anomalous findings is hearsay, then everything is hearsay that you've ever hung your hat on. You've lived and died by these same stats for your entire Fandom of ball, we're they ever proven to be true? Peer reviewed? Apparently not because the 1st time someone ever shines a bright light on them they're stained. Every analysis of anything is hearsay because it wasn't proven directly to or by you. Mj is the goat is hearsay, right? What a stupid take.

[video=youtube;EkdblXw92RQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkdblXw92RQ[/video]

like I said, 3000, 200, 100 was established for perimeter D.

You ignore the history maker once, cant do it again.

You gotta award him next.

Westbrook benefited with MVP like that.

Man calls MJ an "elite" defender. I agree.

Also, there were multiple stats reporter per NBA Game.

Regarding Pip, Just lke Pip-horace friendship turned sour quick.

Pip resented MJ deep down. He was straight up jealous. for being a Robin.

He enjoyed all that practice upbringing. learning new tricks in practice, behind close curtains.

But he wanted equal status. MJ put him where he was. As a kid bruh. And he acted like one too

in 1994 and 1995. quitting on team. chair throwing. If Pip complains about "stocks" leaning towards MJ.

thats the least of my concern. thats typical Pip, beatching and resenting.

Now you gotta open the pandora's box of all 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, '10s, '20s "stocks" reports. all of them.

Because at the end, it was all "subjective" reporting to the letter of the law. and there were multiple scorekeepers per NBA game.

[QUOTE=3ba11;14924788].
[B]Thread Cliffs[/B]


[B]Play-by-play information is required to know which plays to dispute and match a player's 5 steals from the boxscore [/B]to plays in the game - otherwise there's no way to know if you're looking at the right plays[/QUOTE]
Only if you cant perform basic observation and counting functions. You dont need play by play to determine 3 dead ball turnovers were called steals and that Mj ended up with 3 steals that couldnt be found watching tape. Thats the point.

[QUOTE=gengiskhan;14924797][video=youtube;EkdblXw92RQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkdblXw92RQ[/video]

like I said, 3000, 200, 100 was established for perimeter D.

You ignore the history maker once, cant do it again.

You gotta award him next.

Westbrook benefited with MVP like that.

Man calls MJ an "elite" defender. I agree.

Also, there were multiple stats reporter per NBA Game.

Regarding Pip, Just lke Pip-horace friendship turned sour quick.

Pip resented MJ deep down. He was straight up jealous. for being a Robin.

He enjoyed all that practice upbringing. learning new tricks in practice, behind close curtains.

But he wanted equal status. MJ put him where he was. As a kid bruh. And he acted like one too

in 1994 and 1995. quitting on team. chair throwing. If Pip complains about "stocks" leaning towards MJ.

thats the least of my concern. thats typical Pip, beatching and resenting.

Now you gotta open the pandora's box of all 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, '10s, '20s "stocks" reports. all of them.

Because at the end, it was all "subjective" reporting to the letter of the law. and there were multiple scorekeepers per NBA game.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't call it pandoras box because the modern game scrutinized the stats more and actually audits them. Guys get things taken away in the boxscores after games all the time. I get the need to rope others in, if I'm an Mj stan though.

all players have one-offs of massive inflation such as 120% and 73% higher blocks for Lebron as a rookie and sophomore, or 82% higher stocks for 88' Jordan, or 50-65% higher for 90' Hakeem, 22' AD and 23' Jaren Jackson... But these are all one-offs, otherwise every other year of their career had normal home inflation, which decreased over time as road records improved.. So the home inflation isn't due to bad record keeping - it's due to bad road records/conditions that improved over time, while the one-offs of massive inflation that every player has could be due to any number of reasons other than cheating, such as personal issues affecting home/road performance.

The most annoying thing was when Ephraim Salaam was on the Odd Couple and he was supposed to be the die-hard Bulls fan - but when Haberstroh came on, the first thing Ephraim said in rebuttle was "well okay, if we reach into the trophy case and take away the DPOY trophy"..... wtf?... that's exactly what Klutch wants - to take the trophy away and this idiot is doing exactly that with his response... his response should've been to refute the study entirely since it's bogus and not possible to be done.. let alone the 5-game sample which says that MJ averaged 1.5 steals on the year.

[QUOTE=3ba11;14924907]The most annoying thing was when Ephraim Salaam was on the Odd Couple and he was supposed to be the die-hard Bulls fan - but when Haberstroh came on, the first thing Ephraim said in rebuttle was "well okay, if we reach into the trophy case and take away the DPOY trophy"..... wtf?... that's exactly what Klutch wants - to take the trophy away and this idiot is doing exactly that with his response... his response should've been to refute the study entirely since it's bogus and not possible to be done.. let alone the 5-game sample which says that MJ averaged 1.5 steals on the year.[/QUOTE]

It's over. MJ is slowly getting exposed.

[I]Play-by-play information[/I] is required to know what plays to dispute and match a player's 5 steals from the boxscore to plays in the game - otherwise there's no way to know if you're looking at the right plays, thus compounding the errors.. A close call that you assume was awarded to Jordan could've already been awarded to the other guy... So it isn't possible to do what Haberstroh claims until 1997 when play-by-play information began.. But even then, stats like steals, assists and blocks are largely subjective, so there's no reason to believe that the 2nd subjective judgement is any better than the 1st one.

The live-ball turnover methodology is innovative but it isn't believable that Jordan's steals were more than an entire team's live-ball turnovers.. So it requires showing your work, which hasn't been done because the games weren't posted or made available to anyone outside of the author, aka fraud.

Ultimately, all players have one-offs of massive inflation such as 120% and 73% higher blocks for Lebron as a rookie and sophomore, or 82% higher stocks for 88' Jordan, or 50-65% higher for 90' Hakeem, 22' AD and 23' Jaren Jackson... But these are all one-offs, otherwise every other year of their career had normal home inflation, which decreased over time as road records improved.. So the home inflation isn't due to bad record keeping - it's due to bad road records/conditions that improved over time, while the one-offs of massive inflation that every player has could be due to any number of reasons other than [I]league-wide[/I] cheating, such as personal issues affecting home/road performance.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14924908]It's over. MJ is slowly getting exposed.[/QUOTE]


You proved MJ was GOAT actually with your statement about how big deficits at the 3-7 roster spots is "too much to overcome", except MJ did exactly that for 6 Finals.

[QUOTE=SATAN;14924747][video=youtube;wpU59joEZhI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpU59joEZhI&lc=UgwKK-cP8GvgmDf_B9B4AaABAg[/video]

:applause:[/QUOTE]

The statistical dive in this one may be worse than the article tbh. Ouch.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14924935]The statistical dive in this one may be worse than the article tbh. Ouch.[/QUOTE]


lol so true - he says that "everyone says that jordan guarded the best player, so let's see how he did defending all the best players".. then he takes the next 7 hours to list MJ vs Dominique... Mj vs Bird.... MJ vs someone else that he didn't guard as the primary defender... it's hilarious once you realize that he's just going to keep going on like this for hours.

[QUOTE=3ba11;14924949]lol so true - he says that "everyone says that jordan guarded the best player, so let's see how he did defending all the best players".. then he takes the next 7 hours to list MJ vs Dominique... Mj vs Bird.... MJ vs someone else that he didn't guard as the primary defender... it's hilarious once you realize that he's just going to keep going on like this for hours.[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure he said he used synergy tracking data, and I completely expect you to have no effing clue what that is, but Google is your friend.

Been happening forever even now.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14924951]I'm pretty sure he said he used synergy tracking data, and I completely expect you to have no effing clue what that is, but Google is your friend.[/QUOTE]


he posted bbalref data showing the averages of Bird, Barkley, and Aguirre and said that Jordan guarded them as the primary defender because "Jordan fans always say he guards the best player on the other team"..... So he literally listed all the best players from other teams - he might even have centers on there - after he listed a bunch of frontcourt players I turned it off and laughed

I'll make a thread that shows the averages of the guys that MJ defended as the primary defender, aka Harper, Dumars, Isiah, Starks, Magic, Drexler, Steve Smith, Bobby Phills, Nick Anderson, Majerle, Hornacek, Rod Strickland, Payton, Hawkins, Reggie Miller and a few others.

He held nearly all his primary matchups to 35-43% shooting - an unprecedented standard of individual defense, along with goat help defense and leadership

[QUOTE=3ba11;14924957]he posted bbalref data showing the averages of Bird, Barkley, and Aguirre and said that Jordan guarded them as the primary defender because "Jordan fans always say he guards the best player on the other team"..... So he literally listed all the best players from other teams - he might even have centers on there - after he listed a bunch of frontcourt players I turned it off and laughed[/QUOTE]

Yeah you're completely lost on what synergy stats reports lol. Do some research.

[QUOTE=Honor Boost;14924952]Been happening forever even now.[/QUOTE]

LBJs entire assist and rebound stats are highly questionable from last 5 seasons.

Westbrook Triple double season after season in OKC were straight stat padding.

Hakeem 1988 blocks were padded like crazy.

People forget. Cuz of the 1984 Draft and Sam Boyie bust, There was lot of bad blood between Bulls, Rockets and Blazers. and this did not go away easily.

in 1985 itself, #1 Hakeem was suppose to beat #3 MJ for ROY comfortably. It was really 7'0" vs 6'6" challenge. Hakeem also had twin tower Ralph to help out.

what really helped out 1985 MJ was that 1984 Olympics. This is where Knight indicated over and over that at 21, MJ has PEAKED!. beating NBA allstars. 1984 Hakeem missed out because of US citizenship I guess. Should've played for 1984 Nigerian team imo. if they made it. not sure.

Rumor had it 1985 itself, rookie Hakeem "stocks" were padded at home seeing rookie MJ taking NBA by storm. Expectations were, #1 Hakeem will finish over #3 for ROY honors.

1985 "stocks" keepers helped Rookie Hakeem out and Ralph got punished. for 82 games, Hakeem ended up with 12 RPG over Sampsons 10 RPG. Ralph even complained. inside scooop was, rookie MJ bulls so week, he is up to 6.5 RPG at 6'6" with 6 APG, he was surely gonna eat into rookie Hakeem ROY votes because of Ralph's help in front court.

[QUOTE=gengiskhan;14925063]LBJs entire assist and rebound stats are highly questionable from last 5 seasons.

Westbrook Triple double season after season in OKC were straight stat padding.

Hakeem 1988 blocks were padded like crazy.

People forget. Cuz of the 1984 Draft and Sam Boyie bust, There was lot of bad blood between Bulls, Rockets and Blazers. and this did not go away easily.

in 1985 itself, #1 Hakeem was suppose to beat #3 MJ for ROY comfortably. It was really 7'0" vs 6'6" challenge. Hakeem also had twin tower Ralph to help out.

what really helped out 1985 MJ was that 1984 Olympics. This is where Knight indicated over and over that at 21, MJ has PEAKED!. beating NBA allstars. 1984 Hakeem missed out because of US citizenship I guess. Should've played for 1984 Nigerian team imo. if they made it. not sure.

Rumor had it 1985 itself, rookie Hakeem "stocks" were padded at home seeing rookie MJ taking NBA by storm. Expectations were, #1 Hakeem will finish over #3 for ROY honors.

1985 "stocks" keepers helped Rookie Hakeem out and Ralph got punished. for 82 games, Hakeem ended up with 12 RPG over Sampsons 10 RPG. Ralph even complained. inside scooop was, rookie MJ bulls so week, he is up to 6.5 RPG at 6'6" with 6 APG, he was surely gonna eat into rookie Hakeem ROY votes because of Ralph's help in front court.[/QUOTE]



^^^^ this... Lebron had 120% home inflation of blocks in his rookie year and 73% in his 2nd year, while MJ, Hakeem, AD or Jaren Jackson saw 50-80% higher stocks in one-off seasons.. Everyone in history had one-offs of massive home inflation, while the [I]normal[/I] inflation for every other year of a player's career has been decreasing over time as road records and conditions steadily improved

And these unbelievable videos from Uncut Hoops uncover Haberstro's fraud - if anyone works for MJ, it's this guy

[url]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p0M2WPEkE_w[/url]
[url]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ke-YXeBXFjw[/url]

[QUOTE=3ba11;14925077]^^^^ this... Lebron had 120% home inflation of blocks in his rookie year and 73% in his 2nd year, while MJ, Hakeem, AD or Jaren Jackson saw 50-80% higher stocks in one-off seasons.. Everyone in history had one-offs of massive home inflation, while the [I]normal[/I] inflation for every other year of a player's career has been decreasing over time as road records and conditions steadily improved

And these unbelievable videos from Uncut Hoops uncover Haberstro's fraud - if anyone works for MJ, it's this guy

[url]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p0M2WPEkE_w[/url]
[url]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ke-YXeBXFjw[/url][/QUOTE]

So basically your answers are at the acceptance phase. "But other guys did it too!". Show me other guys getting steals from 24 second violations and we've got a discussion. Otherwise it jist looks bad. I want to see the primary defender stats myself now because that's disgusting. They are basically saying the in his dpoy season the average game against him not considering talent level is 20ppg on 50% wow.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14925080]So basically your answers are at the acceptance phase. "But other guys did it too!". Show me other guys getting steals from 24 second violations and we've got a discussion. Otherwise it jist looks bad. I want to see the primary defender stats myself now because that's disgusting. They are basically saying the in his dpoy season the average game against him not considering talent level is 20ppg on 50% wow.[/QUOTE]

case is closed right about here!

[b]1988 Eaton[/b]

9th = dbpm
4th = dws
12th=drtg
1st = tm drtg
5th = tm oppg


[b]1988 MJ[/b]

1st = dbpm
2nd =dws
4th = drtg
3rd = tm drtg
1st = tm oppg

The gap is too large. MJ aint losing 1988 dpoy to Eaton no matter how hard they gang up against him.

We all know LeRoid's status are questionable for obvious reasons..

[QUOTE=gengiskhan;14925085]case is closed right about here!

[b]1988 Eaton[/b]

9th = dbpm
4th = dws
12th=drtg
1st = tm drtg
5th = tm oppg


[b]1988 MJ[/b]

1st = dbpm
2nd =dws
4th = drtg
3rd = tm drtg
1st = tm oppg

The gap is too large. MJ aint losing 1988 dpoy to Eaton no matter how hard they gang up against him.[/QUOTE]
It's strange you didn't compare Akeem instead , we all know the reason(s) and why you cite team def rating and oppg when a guard has a miniscule impact on those metrics vs. the individual defensive metrics? Oh, because MJ's are fake!