Imagine being 7 foot and being defended by Carusso straight up and passing it off to other players in a game 7. All the while people calling you the best offensive player of all time. :lol
Printable View
Imagine being 7 foot and being defended by Carusso straight up and passing it off to other players in a game 7. All the while people calling you the best offensive player of all time. :lol
i'm sorry but if you're 7'1 and get shut down by caruso (6'5) in a game 7 playoffs match, you are not the 4th best player of all time no matter your stats throughout the years.
[QUOTE=hold this L;15006838]Imagine being 7 foot and being defended by Carusso straight up and passing it off to other players in a game 7. All the while people calling you the best offensive player of all time. :lol[/QUOTE]
Caruso is an all-nba defender and OKC arguably has the best defense over the last 25 years. They have a ton of elite defenders and Jokic still managed 28/14/6 on 59.2 TS%.
Guys like MJ, Kareem, Lebron, etc, have all had many worse playoff series.
[QUOTE=highwhey;15006843]i'm sorry but if you're 7'1 and get shut down by caruso (6'5) in a game 7 playoffs match, you are not the 4th best player of all time no matter your stats throughout the years.[/QUOTE]
Caruso is an all-nba defender and OKC arguably has the best defense over the last 25 years. They have a ton of elite defenders and Jokic still managed 28/14/6 on 59.2 TS%.
Guys like MJ, Kareem, Lebron, etc have all had many worse playoff series.
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;15006846]Caruso is an all-nba defender and OKC arguably has the best defense over the last 25 years. They have a ton of elite defenders and Jokic still managed 28/14/6 on 59.2 TS%.
Guys like MJ, Kareem, Lebron, etc have all had many worse playoff series.[/QUOTE]
Why are you 3balling and copying and pasting this same post over and over :lol
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;15006854]Why are you 3balling and copying and pasting this same post over and over :lol[/QUOTE]
It's a factual rebuttal to people's nonsensical posting :confusedshrug:.
Besides, everyone has forgotten the whole point of this thread, which is based on impact stats and eye test.
Everyone is just dumb posting about wins/losses with no context, which is not what this thread is about.
Jokic is getting the Lebron treatment, which only solidifies Jok's GOATness.
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;15006854]Why are you 3balling and copying and pasting this same post over and over :lol[/QUOTE]
Caruso is an all-nba defender and OKC arguably has the best defense over the last 25 years. They have a ton of elite defenders and Jokic still managed 28/14/6 on 59.2 TS%.
Guys like MJ, Kareem, Lebron, etc have all had many worse playoff series.
Bullshit
We can put this crap to bed
He's like the center version of lebron - he needs to monopolize the whole offense and it can marginalize teammates, hence his cast showing flashes of greatness (Murray's 23' run) but otherwise mostly sucking during their entire tenure alongside Jokic - this differs from lower APG players and dominant scorers like Curry, MJ, Kobe, Shaq, Bird, etc - their teammates were known for coming through
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;15006859]It's a factual rebuttal to people's nonsensical posting :confusedshrug:.
Besides, everyone has forgotten the whole point of this thread, which is based on impact stats and eye test.
Everyone is just dumb posting about wins/losses with no context, which is not what this thread is about.
Jokic is getting the Lebron treatment, which only solidifies Jok's GOATness.[/QUOTE]
It seems like Jokic's performance and impact decline significantly from the regular season to the playoffs. I've only briefly checked this out (excluding his early regular-season years), but I'm noting this because prime lebron was the opposite, I know you're comparing something else with LeBron, but just wanted to mention.
[QUOTE=Keno;15006898]It seems like Jokic's performance and impact decline significantly from the regular season to the playoffs. I've only briefly checked this out (excluding his early regular-season years), but I'm noting this because prime lebron was the opposite, I know you're comparing something else with LeBron, but just wanted to mention.[/QUOTE]
:roll:
Jokic has some of the best impact/advanced stats of all time in the playoffs, in fact he's number 1 all time in a few of them.
But yeah, he TOTALLY has his impact decline in the playoffs...man yall just say anything.
[QUOTE=Keno;15006898]It seems like Jokic's performance and impact decline significantly from the regular season to the playoffs. I've only briefly checked this out (excluding his early regular-season years), but I'm noting this because prime lebron was the opposite, I know you're comparing something else with LeBron, but just wanted to mention.[/QUOTE]
:roll:
Jokic has some of the best impact/advanced stats of all time in the playoffs, in fact he's number 1 all time in a few of them.
But yeah, he TOTALLY has his impact decline in the playoffs...man yall just say anything.
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;15006938]:roll:
Jokic has some of the best impact/advanced stats of all time in the playoffs, in fact he's number 1 all time in a few of them.
But yeah, he TOTALLY has his impact decline in the playoffs...man yall just say anything.[/QUOTE]
Alex. Caruso.
Quick refresher for everyone who can't read.
My OP states "Don't care about "resumes" or accolades at this point. Jokic is above all of that just like MJ/Lebron were. MJ was crowned best ever before his career finished. Lebron hit that same pedestal. Jokic is there too. Kareem, MJ, Lebron, Jokic - 4 best players based on "on the court" ability."
Like I said already, resumes/accolades are secondary items. Impact stats and eye test put Jokic on the Mt. Rushmore GOAT TIER.
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;15006945]Quick refresher for everyone who can't read.
My OP states "Don't care about "resumes" or accolades at this point. Jokic is above all of that just like MJ/Lebron were. MJ was crowned best ever before his career finished. Lebron hit that same pedestal. Jokic is there too. Kareem, MJ, Lebron, Jokic - 4 best players based on "on the court" ability."
Like I said already, resumes/accolades are secondary items. Impact stats and eye test put Jokic on the Mt. Rushmore GOAT TIER.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]https://cdn.nba.com/headshots/nba/latest/1040x760/1627936.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=highwhey;15006863]Caruso is an all-nba defender and OKC arguably has the best defense over the last 25 years. They have a ton of elite defenders and Jokic still managed 28/14/6 on 59.2 TS%.
Guys like MJ, Kareem, Lebron, etc have all had many worse playoff series.[/QUOTE]
Those are highly misleading stats. He went nuclear (honestly ATG performances) on two games and was total dogshit on 3 others, two of which OKC won that were winnable. He had a 3 game stretch shooting 48%.
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;15006845]Caruso is an all-nba defender and OKC arguably has the best defense over the last 25 years. They have a ton of elite defenders and Jokic still managed 28/14/6 on 59.2 TS%.
Guys like MJ, Kareem, Lebron, etc, have all had many worse playoff series.[/QUOTE]
In a website that is run by insane player stans, I have to say I'm impressed what a pathetic NBA fan you are :lol You're trying to justify a 7 footer getting locked up by a average sized guard since.. he's an all-NBA defender. In the same topic you created about him being the 4th best player of all time.
You're a complete retard. :facepalm
[QUOTE=hold this L;15006951]In a website that is run by insane player stans, I have to say I'm impressed what a pathetic NBA fan you are :lol You're trying to justify a 7 footer getting locked up by a average sized guard since.. he's an all-NBA defender. In the same topic you created about him being the 4th best player of all time.
You're a complete retard. :facepalm[/QUOTE]
:roll:
[QUOTE=hold this L;15006949]Those are highly misleading stats. He went nuclear (honestly ATG performances) on two games and was total dogshit on 3 others, two of which OKC won that were winnable. He had a 3 game stretch shooting 48%.[/QUOTE]
i'm just copying what OP says bc he is absolutely retarded
It is amusing that people are saying Jokic got "locked up" since he scored only 20. Just shows the standard he is held to.
Has anyone talked about Murray taking 16 shots to score 13 points?
[QUOTE=tontoz;15006992]It is amusing that people are saying Jokic got "locked up" since he scored only 20. Just shows the standard he is held to.
Has anyone talked about Murray taking 16 shots to score 13 points?[/QUOTE]
it's ok to admit jokic choked. getting locked up by a 6'5 guard is embarrassing in a game 7, well in any game, but especially in an elimination game. no need to shift blame to teammates.
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;15006846]Caruso is an all-nba defender and OKC arguably has the best defense over the last 25 years. They have a ton of elite defenders and Jokic still managed 28/14/6 on 59.2 TS%.
Guys like MJ, Kareem, Lebron, etc have all had many worse playoff series.[/QUOTE]
Caruso was on Jokic for long stretches of the game - single coverage giving up 6 inches and 100 lbs.
[QUOTE=highwhey;15006993]it's ok to admit jokic choked. getting locked up by a 6'5 guard is embarrassing in a game 7, well in any game, but especially in an elimination game. no need to shift blame to teammates.[/QUOTE]
Getting locked up usually means scoring under 20 with poor shooting. When did that change? I must have missed the memo.
Feel free to point out any clips where Jokic put the ball on the deck and nobody came to help Caruso.
Here is a clip when the help came late and the result was predictable.
[video=youtube;sLEmUbnGBrk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLEmUbnGBrk[/video]
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;15006938]:roll:
Jokic has some of the best impact/advanced stats of all time in the playoffs, in fact he's number 1 all time in a few of them.
But yeah, he TOTALLY has his impact decline in the playoffs...man yall just say anything.[/QUOTE]
hm, I looked into it more and yea, you were right my bad, he only significantly declined from regular season -> playoffs this year (2025), other years he was about the same if not better.
[QUOTE=rmt;15006995]Caruso was on Jokic for long stretches of the game - single coverage giving up 6 inches and 100 lbs.[/QUOTE]
Jokic had 20 pts through 3 quarters with high efficiency in spite of all the help Caruso got when Jokic put the ball on the deck. I don't think that is why they were down 25 after 3.
[QUOTE=rmt;15006995]Caruso was on Jokic for long stretches of the game - single coverage giving up 6 inches and 100 lbs.[/QUOTE]
Imagine thinking Caruso actually guarded Jokic 1-on-1 like this was low IQ 90's ball.
The WHOLE OKC defense schemed for Jokic. In fact, in game 7, they ONLY focused on Jokic because they knew MPJ and Gordon were completely injured and useless.
[QUOTE=hold this L;15006949]Those are highly misleading stats. He went nuclear (honestly ATG performances) on two games and was total dogshit on 3 others, two of which OKC won that were winnable. He had a 3 game stretch shooting 48%.[/QUOTE]
Buddy, do you know how playoff series work? Do you know how averages work? Go think about the basics some more and get back to me.
[QUOTE=hold this L;15006951]In a website that is run by insane player stans, I have to say I'm impressed what a pathetic NBA fan you are :lol You're trying to justify a 7 footer getting locked up by a average sized guard since.. he's an all-NBA defender. In the same topic you created about him being the 4th best player of all time.
You're a complete retard. :facepalm[/QUOTE]
Imagine thinking Caruso actually guarded Jokic 1-on-1 like this was low IQ 90's ball.
The WHOLE OKC defense schemed for Jokic. In fact, in game 7, they ONLY focused on Jokic because they knew MPJ and Gordon were completely injured and useless.
Jokic has never had a single teammate make an all-star, all-defense, or all-nba game.
Curry's whole career has been littered with stacked talent, tons of all-nba/all-defense guys, and even had Kevin Durant completely snatch away two FMVPs from him because Curry kept getting stomped by Lebron.
Jokic with Curry's teammates over the last 12 years has 6 chips and 4 or 5 FMVPs.
Jokic took a 68-win OKC team to a game 7 with an injured MPJ and Aaron Gordon. He had a really good series against an all-time great defense. His TEAM was completely outmatched.
This doesn't take anything away from Jokic, in fact, it continues to validate his GOAT impact.
[QUOTE=tontoz;15007000]Getting locked up usually means scoring under 20 with poor shooting. When did that change? I must have missed the memo.
Feel free to point out any clips where Jokic put the ball on the deck and nobody came to help Caruso.
Here is a clip when the help came late and the result was predictable.
[video=youtube;sLEmUbnGBrk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLEmUbnGBrk[/video][/QUOTE]
you're being dense my guy, but do you. :cheers:
[QUOTE=highwhey;15007018]you're being dense my guy, but do you. :cheers:[/QUOTE]
No, I am just stating what actually happened. He scored 20 on high efficiency through 3 quarters. That is just a fact but you ignore it because it doesn't fit your narrative.
Looking forward to those Suns-Wizards pic swaps going forward. We can use the extra lottery balls :lol
[QUOTE=tontoz;15007025]No, I am just stating what actually happened. He scored 20 on high efficiency through 3 quarters. That is just a fact but you ignore it because it doesn't fit your narrative.
Looking forward to those Suns-Wizards pic swaps going forward. We can use the extra lottery balls :lol[/QUOTE]
he choked. he didn't lead his team in that game, often being passive bc caruso was frustrating him. 20pts in an elimination playoff game is good? LOL. not for a 'superstar'.
[QUOTE=highwhey;15007027]he choked. he didn't lead his team in that game, often being passive bc caruso was frustrating him. 20pts in an elimination playoff game is good? LOL. not for a 'superstar'.[/QUOTE]
Whether it was good or not is debatable. But saying he got shut down is nonsense. He still led the team in scoring and assists as usual.
They weren't winning that game with Gordon and MPJ playing with injuries that would keep them out in the regular season.
[QUOTE=tontoz;15007030][B]Whether it was good or not is debatable.[/B] But saying he got shut down is nonsense. He still led the team in scoring and assists as usual.
They weren't winning that game with Gordon and MPJ playing with injuries that would keep them out in the regular season.[/QUOTE]
:biggums:
[QUOTE=tontoz;15007030]Whether it was good or not is debatable. But saying he got shut down is nonsense. He still led the team in scoring and assists as usual.
They weren't winning that game with Gordon and MPJ playing with injuries that would keep them out in the regular season.[/QUOTE]
Bro, stop using facts and reality-based assessment. These morons can't handle it.
[QUOTE=hold this L;15006951]In a website that is run by insane player stans, I have to say I'm impressed what a pathetic NBA fan you are :lol You're trying to justify a 7 footer getting locked up by a average sized guard since.. he's an all-NBA defender. In the same topic you created about him being the 4th best player of all time.
You're a complete retard. :facepalm[/QUOTE]
Burn.
He aint even 14th best GOAT.
next......
[QUOTE=tontoz;15007030]Whether it was good or not is debatable. But saying he got shut down is nonsense. He still led the team in scoring and assists as usual.
They weren't winning that game with Gordon and MPJ playing with injuries that would keep them out in the regular season.[/QUOTE]
This is pure delusion.
A guy who averaged a 30-pt triple-double got held to 20 points and 7 assists with 5 turnovers, and you're saying it's DEBATABLE whether he was good? He wasn't shut down even though he only got 1 shot attempt up in the 2nd half? Ok buddy.
[QUOTE=ImKobe;15008191]This is pure delusion.
A guy who averaged a 30-pt triple-double got held to 20 points and 7 assists with 5 turnovers, and you're saying it's DEBATABLE whether he was good? He wasn't shut down even though he only got 1 shot attempt up in the 2nd half? Ok buddy.[/QUOTE]
It was a blowout so he didn't score in the 4th. 20 pts through 3 quarters with a 72% TS is not bad. The 4th quarter was just garbage time. They were down 25 after 3. If the game was competitive then he surely would have kept scoring and been close to his average.
Jokic led the team in scoring and assists. He had a 72% TS while the rest of the team had a TS of 47% but lets pretend that Jokic got shut down. :facepalm
[QUOTE=tontoz;15008193]It was a blowout so he didn't score in the 4th. 20 pts through 3 quarters with a 72% TS is not bad. The 4th quarter was just garbage time. They were down 25 after 3. If the game was competitive then he surely would have kept scoring and been close to his average.
Jokic led the team in scoring and assists. He had a 72% TS while the rest of the team had a TS of 47% but lets pretend that Jokic got shut down. :facepalm[/QUOTE]
That's the same guy who I'm sure would insist Kobe's 6/24 was a good game :lol
[QUOTE=tontoz;15008193]It was a blowout so he didn't score in the 4th. 20 pts through 3 quarters with a 72% TS is not bad. The 4th quarter was just garbage time. They were down 25 after 3. If the game was competitive then he surely would have kept scoring and been close to his average.
Jokic led the team in scoring and assists. He had a 72% TS while the rest of the team had a TS of 47% but lets pretend that Jokic got shut down. :facepalm[/QUOTE]
He did next to nothing in the 3rd as well bro. 1 shot. They were down 14 at the half, the game was well within reach.
OKC shut him down which means they shut the Denver offense down as they denied him the ball and took it out of his hands when he did have it, thus a team that's overly reliant on one guy could not produce any offense to keep up.
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;15008194]That's the same guy who I'm sure would insist Kobe's 6/24 was a good game :lol[/QUOTE]
It wasn't a good game overall, but Kobe at least finished strong and played great defense. In Jokic's case he did next to nothing after 2 quarters, couldn't adjust his game.