So where would players like Kobe, Wade, Lebron and Duncan be rated if they played in the 80's? Also, what kind of stats would they have averaged?
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So where would players like Kobe, Wade, Lebron and Duncan be rated if they played in the 80's? Also, what kind of stats would they have averaged?
[QUOTE=plowking]So where would players like Kobe, Wade, Lebron and Duncan be rated if they played in the 80's? Also, what kind of stats would they have averaged?[/QUOTE]
It really depends on their team IMO. I think Duncan would be the one who comes out with the most improvement. The Spurs are a plodding team. His scoring wouldn't be too different but his rebounds and assists would look much improved.
If LeBron played in the early 80s he'd be a threat to repeat the Big O's triple double season.
Also, Golden Era? How about Platinum.
He'd certainly be in the Top 3. I think he'd have issues guarding players. Offensively...if Dirk can consistently average around 25 or better on good efficiency; then Bird, being the significantly superior player skill-wise would easily do better. Bird's also not the white stiff he's made out to be. He had the necessary athletic skills requried for an already super-skilled player to be a great scorer - great first step, good agility and body control(superior to Dirk in all 3 of those categories).
And I'm hardly a guy living in the past. I'll be the first to say D is better today then it was pre-mid 90's. Every players' offensive efficiency prior to that period would be lower in today's league. I can't take anyone who disagrees with that seriously.
[QUOTE=plowking]So where would players like Kobe, Wade, Lebron and Duncan be rated if they played in the 80's? Also, what kind of stats would they have averaged?[/QUOTE]
You go first. Curious to see how much you overrate some of these guys.
[QUOTE=miles berg]Bird wasn't even remotely close to being as athletic as Dirk.[/QUOTE]
How old are you?
Dirk couldn't handle the physical punishment Bird took in the post for a week, he would be sitting on the bench icing his hoo hah.
Larry pre back injury in his prime when he won 3 str8t MVPs was more athletic than Dirk for sure.
- He was quicker laterally
- He was stronger and showed it by battling for post position
Look at that play he made in 81 in the playoffs where he shot the 3 and knew it was off right and he followed his shot and baseline he jumped caught it turned and sank the shot as he was fading out of bounds.
Dirk has bad legs, 1 longer than the other and he can't take banging in the post, and lives on the midrange and outside fadeaway, he used to occasionally throw down a jam a few years ago, but there is no way he is a far superior athlete to Bird.
Watch KBlaze's mix, shows some of the physicality of the 80s game and some of Birds ability.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULvo7__wwBU[/url]
Im not saying Dirk is better than Bird circa 80-88, I am just saying that he is better at creating his own shot and is a better penetrator. Birds career best FTA per game is around 6.0 per game, Dirk has topped that in 7 of his 10 seasons with a career high of 9.1 FTA per game. He obviously knows how to penetrate, you don't get those types of FTAs as a big man with very little post game by just shooting jumpshots.
Somewhere in there he has taken his man off of the dribble, the guy has had over four seasons of 7+ FTA per game, he hasn't gotten all of those just standing behind the arc shooting 3s like some of you like to paint his game out to be.
My point is that, yes, Bird would be one of the best players in the league, probably the best since Duncan is one a slow decline and LeBron has yet to reach his peak. Those are the only two in the league that have a shot at Bird, I realize this.
[QUOTE=miles berg]Im not saying Dirk is better than Bird circa 80-88, I am just saying that he is better at creating his own shot and is a better penetrator. Birds career best FTA per game is around 6.0 per game, Dirk has topped that in 7 of his 10 seasons with a career high of 9.1 FTA per game. He obviously knows how to penetrate, you don't get those types of FTAs as a big man with very little post game by just shooting jumpshots.[/quote]
Kobe had 3 seasons of 10+ FTA and another of 9+ FTA shooting jumpers on 80% of his shot attempts, so I'm not sure if that proves anything.
If you want to argue that Dirk is a superior penetrator, fine, it's arguable. But anyone who watched Bird can tell you that he was a better shot creator than Dirk.
[QUOTE=ShamRockStar]How old are you?
Dirk couldn't handle the physical punishment Bird took in the post for a week, he would be sitting on the bench icing his hoo hah.
Larry pre back injury in his prime when he won 3 str8t MVPs was more athletic than Dirk for sure.
- He was quicker laterally
- He was stronger and showed it by battling for post position
Look at that play he made in 81 in the playoffs where he shot the 3 and knew it was off right and he followed his shot and baseline he jumped caught it turned and sank the shot as he was fading out of bounds.
Dirk has bad legs, 1 longer than the other and he can't take banging in the post, and lives on the midrange and outside fadeaway, he used to occasionally throw down a jam a few years ago, but there is no way he is a far superior athlete to Bird.
Watch KBlaze's mix, shows some of the physicality of the 80s game and some of Birds ability.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULvo7__wwBU[/url][/QUOTE]
Again, more generalizations. When is the last time Dirk played in less than 76 games? The guy got his ****ing teeth knocked out in the 2001 playoffs and returned in less than a minutes worth of game time to drop 33 pts on Duncan/Robinson and push the Mavs to a Game 5 in that series. The guy could barely run last year and returned to take the struggling Mavs to the playoffs and then led the entire NBA in PER in the playoffs.
You keep making crap up all you want, no one in the league today plays through more pain than Dirk. The guys ankles have been gone for years and he never misses games, ever. The guy averages over 7 FTA per game but somehow people like you that watch two quarters of Mavs games each year not only draw conclusions about Dirk but pass them off as fact to anyone that will listen to you.
Sorry bud, to answer your question, Im 30, been watching since I was 5 years old in '83, you can't rewrite history for me. Yes, Bird won 3 MVPs in a row, but a strong argument could be made that Dirk should have won in 05/06 and that was without Kevin McHale & Robert Parish with him on the frontline. You tell me, would you be more successful with McHale & Parish or Dampier & Diop?
[QUOTE=Loki]You go first. Curious to see how much you overrate some of these guys.[/QUOTE]
Kobe in his prime, probably a 32, 6 and 6 being his best season.
Lebron due to using brute strength more then anything, would have a best season of maybe 28, 8 and 10 assists.
Wade maybe a 28, 5 and 10 on higher FG% then both Kobe and Lebron.
Duncan, not too sure. I personally think he would come off worst.
[QUOTE=plowking]Kobe in his prime, probably a 32, 6 and 6 being his best season.
Lebron due to using brute strength more then anything, would have a best season of maybe 28, 8 and 10 assists.
Wade maybe a 28, 5 and 10 on higher FG% then both Kobe and Lebron.
Duncan, not too sure.[B] I personally think he would come off worst.[/B][/QUOTE]
why?:confusedshrug:
on set plays at the end of games, Bird would tell the defender that he was going to shoot it from a certain spot and hit it and there was nothing they could do to stop him.
So he could get his shot off on his man when he tells him exactly what he was going to do.
[QUOTE=ShamRockStar]on set plays at the end of games, Bird would tell the defender that he was going to shoot it from a certain spot and hit it and there was nothing they could do to stop him.
So he could get his shot off on his man when he tells him exactly what he was going to do.[/QUOTE]
I was watching a Larry Bird special and that is exactly what he did to Xavier McDaniel during one game. Bird joked that he didn't mean to leave any time on the clock. McDaniel was probably the toughest player in the league during his time, so anyone that could do that to him and live to tell about it has to be a great player.
[QUOTE=plowking]Kobe in his prime, probably a 32, 6 and 6 being his best season.[/quote]
Reasonable, mostly in line with what I think. I'd even say 33-34/6/6 as his best season on like 48% FG or so.
[quote]Lebron due to using brute strength more then anything, would have a best season of maybe 28, 8 and 10 assists.[/quote]
Possibly, but I doubt it. Jordan averaged 29.5 pts/9.5 reb/10.4 ast/52.5% FG over the final 25 games of the '89 season after being moved to PG, but it's a bit different to do it over a full season. Lebron isn't as good as Jordan imo. I'd say 30/8.5/8/51% FG as Lebron's best season. Maybe if he were on a fast-paced team like Denver back then he'd get to 28/8/10. Maybe.
[quote]Wade maybe a 28, 5 and 10 on higher FG% then both Kobe and Lebron.[/quote]
:oldlol:
No way imo. Wade would be around 26-29 pts/6 reb/6.5-8 ast with the best FG% out of the three.
Kobe dropped 35 on a bad knee. He would easily better that healthy in the 80's. Also, plowkings Wade homerism continues to amuse:roll:
[QUOTE=Loki]Reasonable, mostly in line with what I think. I'd even say 33-34/6/6 as his best season on like 48% FG or so.
Possibly, but I doubt it. Jordan averaged 29.5 pts/9.5 reb/10.4 ast/52.5% FG over the final 25 games of the '89 season after being moved to PG, but it's a bit different to do it over a full season. Lebron isn't as good as Jordan imo. I'd say 30/8.5/8/51% FG as Lebron's best season. Maybe if he were on a fast-paced team like Denver back then he'd get to 28/8/10. Maybe.
:oldlol:
No way imo. Wade would be around 26-29 pts/6 reb/6.5-8 ast with the best FG% out of the three.[/QUOTE]
So Wade playing on a half court team averaging 8 assists last year, couldn't average 10 assists in the 80's in a more free flowing game at a faster pace?