Question for non-religious types...(most of us I think)

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Asking to prove Jesus DIDN'T exist is like asking to prove Santa Claus doesn't, it's a logical fallacy.[/QUOTE]
no...it isn't at all...

one is possible the other is riding around on flying rain deer...

unless you are trying to say Santa Claus was named after an actual human named Claus...which might be true I have no idea...

[QUOTE=DonDadda59] But I think I did enough to establish reasonable doubt your honor. No archeological or historical evidence that is contemporaneous to when he was supposed to be born, lived, died, etc exists despite him being a God who walked on Earth (and water) and performed miracles that many people allegedly saw. In addition, there are contradictory stories about his birth (and life) within the New Testament, one of those accounts being in direct contradiction to historical records we have about censuses that were taken in the Roman Empire and its municipalities during the time in question.

So in summation- no physical evidence exists, no contemporary historical evidence exists and the historical references that were brought up are either non-contemporary or have many 'interpolations' (read forgeries), the accounts told by the people who originated his life story are contradictory and don't fit with historical evidence we have.

So again... evidence that he existed... please. Anything that would sway one from reasonable doubt (at least)... anything?[/QUOTE]
it depends what you mean by evidence...one could say that the Bible itself is "evidence" ...

was there not cases of evidence int the OP?

I am pretty sure Bible scholars have found evidence of some sort....or reasons to think that maybe he there was a man named Jesus Christ...

interesting...Santa Claus WAS a real person...

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas[/url]

[QUOTE=-playmaker-]
unless you are trying to say Santa Claus was named after an actual human named Claus...which might be true I have no idea...
[/QUOTE]


[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas[/url]




edit: beat me to it.

[QUOTE=-playmaker-]no...it isn't at all...

one is possible the other is riding around on flying rain deer...

[/QUOTE]

Yeah dude. Cause turning water into wine, healing the sick with magic powers, coming back to life 3 days after death, thats all possible...

[QUOTE=-playmaker-]no...it isn't at all...

one is possible the other is riding around on flying rain deer...

unless you are trying to say Santa Claus was named after an actual human named Claus...which might be true I have no idea...[/QUOTE]

So being born of a virgin, walking on water, giving site to the blind, resurrecting the dead, turning water into wine, dying and then being resurrected yourself is more 'possible' than flying reindeer? :oldlol:


[QUOTE][B]it depends what you mean by evidence...one could say that the Bible itself is "evidence" ...
[/B]
was there not cases of evidence int the OP?

I am pretty sure Bible scholars have found evidence of some sort....or reasons to think that maybe he there was a man named Jesus Christ...[/QUOTE]

And like I said, that 'evidence' has many many holes that contradicts itself and historical record. And Bible scholars have found shit. The only thing they have is interpolations and faith.

[QUOTE=-playmaker-]no...

BUT, you would "LIKELY" have a better mind set if you did fear God...

likely less depressed...or happier if you are not depressed...(on average)

people who fear God (in general) are usually more content in life, more humble...ect...when times get tuff they have God to fall back on, and real or not he is there for them and does help...[/QUOTE]
I really don't feel like going through the whole thread to see how the argument/debate has evolved/grown, but I I want to give my opinion on this.

I remember talking to you in another thread about religion and happiness, and it seems to me that you assume that people who are religious are more happy due to their religion, when it could just as easily be said people who are happy and content in life are drawn to religion since it emphasizes the greatness of life et cetera.

[QUOTE=KeylessEntry]Yeah dude. Cause turning water into wine, healing the sick with magic powers, coming back to life 3 days after death, thats all possible...[/QUOTE]
read the OP...I am not asking if he was really the literal son of God...

F*ck dude just read the thread title,...

[QUOTE=Rizko]I really don't feel like going through the whole thread to see how the argument/debate has evolved/grown, but I I want to give my opinion on this.

I remember talking to you in another thread about religion and happiness, and it seems to me that you assume that people who are religious are more happy due to their religion, [COLOR="Red"]when it could just as easily be said people who are happy and content in life are drawn to religion since it emphasizes the greatness of life et cetera[/COLOR].[/QUOTE]
no it can't cause like 99% (or whatever, idk) of religious people are born into it...they don't choose it out of happiness...

that might be true for those not born into it though...

[QUOTE=-playmaker-]interesting...Santa Claus WAS a real person...

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas[/url][/QUOTE]

Oh My GOD... I had no clue :eek:

From the first page...

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Santa Clause:St. Nicholas of Myra
Jesus Christ:The Teacher of Righteousness[/QUOTE]

:violin:

EDIT- interesting fact that some people might not know, besides the obvious similarities between Jesus and Santa- they are omnipotent/omniscient (they see all and know all), they reward you for good behavior, they're both celebrated on Christmas/the pagan winter solstice... Kris Kringle (everyone knows this is an alias for Santa) is the americanized version of Christkindl which literally translates to the 'Christ Child' in German if I'm not mistaken.

[QUOTE]Das Christkind (German "The Christ-child", pronounced [ˈkʁɪstkɪnt]) is the traditional Christmas gift-bringer in regions of Austria, the Czech Republic, Croatia, Slovenia, Germany, Italy, Liechtenstein, Switzerland, Slovakia, Hungary, parts of Hispanic America, in certain areas of southern Brazil and in the Acadiana region of Louisiana. In Italy it is called Ges

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]So being born of a virgin, walking on water, giving site to the blind, resurrecting the dead, turning water into wine, dying and then being resurrected yourself is more 'possible' than flying reindeer? :oldlol:

.[/QUOTE]

so you didn't read the OP either?

you really went this entire thread trying to prove he wasn't ****in magical...:oldlol:

NOOOO...I am asking if Jesus was an actual human being...not the literal son of God...


God damn...(pun intended)

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]And like I said, that 'evidence' has many many holes that contradicts itself and historical record. And Bible scholars have found shit. The only thing they have is interpolations and faith.[/QUOTE]
they don't think it is shit...

it is evidence...

why do you care so much one way or another?...would you be really pissed off if the was a real man named Christ who was crucified?

put your Bible hate down for a sec...

[QUOTE]Santa Clause:St. Nicholas of Myra
Jesus Christ:The Teacher of Righteousness[/QUOTE]

okay?

what does that mean?...St. Nick was a real human and Jesus wasn't?

:confusedshrug:


what am I supposed to get out of that?

[QUOTE=-playmaker-]no it can't cause like 99% (or whatever, idk) of religious people are born into it...they don't choose it out of happiness...

that might be true for those not born into it though...[/QUOTE]
A lot of people are born into religious households where and don't follow what their taught. It still fits into what I'm saying, the people who had a happy/good upbringing found things in the religion they grew up with that they felt spoke to them, while the depressed people who felt that life was meaningless didn't have the accept what they were taught.

I'm not trying to say that either way to look at it is right, but to definitively say that either happiness >> religion or religion >> happiness is a big assumption that is hard to prove. I would say that their is a mixture of both honestly.

[QUOTE=Rizko]A lot of people are born into religious households where and don't follow what their taught. It still fits into what I'm saying, the people who had a happy/good upbringing found things in the religion they grew up with that they felt spoke to them, while the depressed people who felt that life was meaningless didn't have the accept what they were taught.

I'm not trying to say that either way to look at it is right, but to definitively say that either happiness >> religion or religion >> happiness is a big assumption that is hard to prove. I would say that their is a mixture of both honestly.[/QUOTE]
I never suggested anything definitively...just saying "in general"...

there are tons of athiests that are perfectly happy, sane, content, ect...and there are tons of religious people that are unhappy, depressed, suicidal, ect...

however, evidence shows that it is usually the other way around...

and it makes perfect sense to me...it is depressing to think that this is all you will ever have to work with...I can see how a mind set like that could lead to depression...where the other mind set believes he is going to heaven...

[QUOTE=-playmaker-]so you didn't read the OP either?

you really went this entire thread trying to prove he wasn't ****in magical...:oldlol:

NOOOO...I am asking if Jesus was an actual human being...not the literal son of God...


God damn...(pun intended)[/QUOTE]

And there is no evidence he was an actual human being. I [I]think[/I] he was [I]based[/I] on person who lived in Judea c. 150 BC and recycled pagan myths, but that's as far as it goes. Has nothing to do with faith, has to do with evidence and there is none to support he existed at all.

If you have anything to disprove my stance, post it.


[QUOTE]they don't think it is shit...

it is evidence...[/QUOTE]

What is?

[QUOTE]why do you care so much one way or another?...would you be really pissed off if the was a real man named Christ who was crucified?

put your Bible hate down for a sec...[/QUOTE]

Uh... you started the topic, not me. You did so with a preconceived notion, you even stated in the OP you were leaning towards there being evidence or proof. You didn't like what you saw so you started getting defensive.

I don't 'hate' the bible, there's some noble life theories in there but it's all mostly a book of myth.

And for the last f*cking time, Christ isn't his last name. Get through your thick skull :facepalm

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]And there is no evidence he was an actual human being. I [I]think[/I] he was [I]based[/I] on person who lived in Judea c. 150 BC and recycled pagan myths, but that's as far as it goes. Has nothing to do with faith, has to do with evidence and there is none to support he existed at all.

If you have anything to disprove my stance, post it.




What is?



Uh... you started the topic, not me. You did so with a preconceived notion, you even stated in the OP you were leaning towards there being evidence or proof. You didn't like what you saw so you started getting defensive.

I don't 'hate' the bible, there's some noble life theories in there but it's all mostly a book of myth.

And for the last f*cking time, Christ isn't his last name. Get through your thick skull :facepalm[/QUOTE]
I never said it was last name just now...and when I did learn what his name ment I then stated I change my stance on which way I was leaning...

why are you putting words in my mouth?...and why are you being stupid?...I know you're not stupid so stop acting like a damn 12 year old...I am not getting defensive with you so stop getting childish with me...when you bumped this thing I stated there was no proof for either side...you asked for takers and I (and someone else) pointed out that it is impossible...

it was just shown that Santa was created out a real human so JUST MAYBE Jesus was too...don't act as though it is out of the question, it is certainly possible...