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[QUOTE=necya]olajuwon, robinson, o'neal and mourning are a lot better than howard.
then, olajuwon, robinson, mourning and mutombo are better defensive players than howard. not even to mention others great defenders of the 90's who were not centers...
that shows the value of his 2 DPOY...[B]the league sucks[/B].[/QUOTE]
Further proof to why I hate people who talk shit about todays league but still watch it.
[QUOTE=Papaya Petee]Further proof to why I hate people who talk shit about todays league but still watch it.[/QUOTE]
Repped.
give me zo every time, better at both ends, dwight is the better rebounder but zo actually had an offensive game and jump shot + the most intimidating defensive big man ever?
to people saying dwight hasnt peaked yet, how exactly do you come to this conclusion, his game has not improved in three years, nothing has changed nothing has improved, he is what he is.
[QUOTE=ukplayer4]give me zo every time, better at both ends, dwight is the better rebounder but zo actually had an offensive game and jump shot + the most intimidating defensive big man ever?[/QUOTE]
Wow, I love Zo as a player, but this is hating on Dwight.
[QUOTE=Papaya Petee]Wow, I love Zo as a player, but this is hating on Dwight.[/QUOTE]
which part?
[QUOTE=ukplayer4]which part?[/QUOTE]
The thing in general, their gap on defense isn't that much at all, and Dwight is the most intimidating defensive presence in the game today. On offence its super close too, Alonzo might have the slighter edge, but Dwight isn't at his peak yet.
As of right now, I would pick Zo over Dwight. Saying Dwight is a better rebounder is misleading because it's based on the stats, team makeup as well of the type of offense played. Zo played with PJ Brown and LJ who were legit power forwards unlike Hedo and Rashard are mostly small forwards. Dwight, being the only guy inside would obviously have a huge chance of getting the rebound without his PF fighting for it. Zo also plays a much slower pace in Pat Riley's grind out offense, therefore few possessions = fewer rebounding chances. All of us agreed that Zo was a better offensive and defensive player than Dwight.
However I do think Dwight is being judged too harsh here. It's not his fault that the rules of the game are very different and the era of the legit skilled center are almost gone ( Yao/Shaq/Duncan ). If Dwight were to played in the 80s/90s era, no doubt Dwight would under Mourning and above Deke. But Dwight would be a better center back then than he would be now because he would have picked up a couple of skills having played against better center competition. Dwight's limited offensive skill makes him a very predictable player, not to mention he's a poor free throw shooter.
Dwight did improve from 2007-2008 to 2008-2009 though he had a down year this year when compared to 2009.
But to say he doesn't have an offensive game is ridiculous. You can't average 21 ppg on 57-60% shooting or 20 ppg for a playoff run or even 18 ppg on 61% and not have an offensive game.
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]Dwight did improve from 2007-2008 to 2008-2009 though he had a down year this year when compared to 2009.
But to say he doesn't have an offensive game is ridiculous. You can't average 21 ppg on 57-60% shooting or 20 ppg for a playoff run or even 18 ppg on 61% and not have an offensive game.[/QUOTE]
Exactly, sure its not a pretty offensive game, but people act like the guy doesn't know how to put the ball in the bucket at all.
I'm pretty sure only 4-6 points a game come off dunks for him, so where does the rest go?
[QUOTE=Papaya Petee]Exactly, sure its not a pretty offensive game, but people act like the guy doesn't know how to put the ball in the bucket at all.
I'm pretty sure only 4-6 points a game come off dunks for him, so where does the rest go?[/QUOTE]
I'm hoping that working with Olajuwon will help him. I saw a few games midseason where he was shooting a bank shot or 2 a game and he was making a decent amount of them. I remember one game in particular vs Dallas when Howard faced up and made a bank shot from about 12 feet back or so and on the enxt possession he faced up and sort of faked like he was going to shoot one and Haywood guarded him tighter and Howard got to the basket and got fouled. If he did that fairly regularly it'd open up his game so much. And just 1 consistent counter for the jump hook and running hook.
Actually I saw a video of Dwight vs Marcin Gortat in practice and he was killing with bank shots, spin moves, turnaround jumpers. Olajuwon actually told Dwight that he has the skills, he just can't be afraid to use them in games. So maybe confidence is an issue as well.
[QUOTE=greymatter]Focus schmocus. He simply wasn't a good option to run an offense through. His jump hook looked uglier than Anthony Mason's FT technique.[/QUOTE]
Noone said he was better, i said bigsmoke is making it out to be moutombo was some scrub so get of you're high horse.
As of now give me Zo all day, every day.
[QUOTE=Papaya Petee]The thing in general, their gap on defense isn't that much at all, and Dwight is the most intimidating defensive presence in the game today. On offence its super close too, Alonzo might have the slighter edge, but Dwight isn't at his peak yet.[/QUOTE]
well considering there arent any intimidating shotblockers in the league anymore that isnt saying a great deal, zo's dpoy's were actually earned, zo was far more intimidating and just a better shot blocker than dwight, far tougher, that goes without saying, dwight is just a clown and doesnt have any of zo's ferocity. plus, maybe they were close in ppg but zo had a jump shot, and a consistent one at that, ill take him at both ends.
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]Dwight did improve from 2007-2008 to 2008-2009 though he had a down year this year when compared to 2009.
But to say he doesn't have an offensive game is ridiculous. You can't average 21 ppg on 57-60% shooting or 20 ppg for a playoff run or even 18 ppg on 61% and not have an offensive game.[/QUOTE]
He has an offensive game for the regular season and for "relatively" easy playoffs series. But when it comes the big stage, like in NBA 2009 Finals, his style of game and lack of post moves basicly makes him predictable to guard for a Center, easier and predictable. Just play him a good team defense, make him not get the deep position, force him to throw long hook shots, jump shots...etc etc and you are basicly going to somehow downlow his offensive game.
Not hating on Dwight or saying he is an awful offensive player, but his lack of post moves and range is a big disadvantage when compared to other all-time centers who played this game.