Haha! This thread is slightly becoming Kobe vs Lebron - nothing new here. :oldlol:
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Haha! This thread is slightly becoming Kobe vs Lebron - nothing new here. :oldlol:
[QUOTE=Raymone]What has Hakeem ever done that LeBron hasn't?[/QUOTE]
Not get swept in finals. :lol
[QUOTE=jcsrplumply]Haha! This thread is slightly becoming Kobe vs Lebron - nothing new here. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
And you can check who brought him up :oldlol:
Hakeem would be absolutely unfair in today's NBA.He is the best big man of the modern era.I can imagine a scenario where LeBron remains ringless.
A couple of examples.
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMilINcdjSM"]45 pt vs Jazz (G1 1995 PO)
[/URL][URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXb7dn7yKWk"]40 pt vs Jazz (G4 1995 PO)[/URL]
More
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNGJl2MfyiI"]40 pts vs Lakers (G3 1986 PO)[/URL]
[QUOTE=Anaximandro1]Hakeem would be absolutely unfair in today's NBA.He is the best big man of the modern era.I can imagine a scenario where LeBron remains ringless.
A couple of examples.
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMilINcdjSM"]45 pt vs Jazz (G1 1995 PO)
[/URL][URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXb7dn7yKWk"]40 pt vs Jazz (G4 1995 PO)[/URL]
More
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNGJl2MfyiI"]40 pts vs Lakers (G3 1986 PO)[/URL][/QUOTE]
Posts like these I don't agree with. Getting slightly off topic, and more into the effectiveness of post players today.
With defenses of today focusing on double teaming, heavy trapping, etc, and along with the rules of today taking away the impact of the big man on offense, I don't think they'd statistically dominate. In fact I think most big men would suffer statistically in this era. Not due to not being as good, just the way the game is played.
[QUOTE=plowking]Posts like these I don't agree with. Getting slightly off topic, and more into the effectiveness of post players today.
With defenses of today focusing on double teaming, heavy trapping, etc, and along with the rules of today taking away the impact of the big man on offense, I don't think they'd statistically dominate. In fact I think most big men would suffer statistically in this era. Not due to not being as good, just the way the game is played.[/QUOTE]
Meh, if Dwight Howard can average 23 on 59% for season then there's no doubt in my mind an all time great like Hakeem can dominate statistically. It's not like there are any big men right now who would be putting up bigger numbers outside of this era
[QUOTE=chazzy]Meh, if Dwight Howard can average 23 on 59% for season then there's no doubt in my mind an all time great like Hakeem can dominate statistically. It's not like there are any big men right now who would be putting up bigger numbers outside of this era[/QUOTE]
Disagree. Players like Al Jeff, Dwight Howard, Zach Randolph, Aldridge, etc would be force-fed the ball back in the 80's and 90's.
People love to diminish Howard as some no skilled, muscle pumped douche, but in reality he has plenty of skills that translate well, hence why he does score at an efficient rate. He'd be a good center in any era.
[QUOTE=plowking]Disagree.[/QUOTE]
How would Hakeem NOT be not be more statistically dominant?
[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]How would Hakeem NOT be not be more statistically dominant?[/QUOTE]
As I said. Rules put in place to stop big men being effective, and the fact the game is moving away from the big man simply due to defenses of today. Everything is geared towards getting the wings to take more shots.
What do you expect him to average? 35/15 now?
[QUOTE=plowking]As I said. Rules put in place to stop big men being effective, and the fact the game is moving away from the big man simply due to defenses of today. Everything is geared towards getting the wings to take more shots.
What do you expect him to average? 35/15 now?[/QUOTE]
I meant compared to today's centers. How would he not be better statistically than, say, Dwight?
And about the rules - they implemented the defensive three-second rule in 2001. Was Shaq still not dominant? Don't tell me you think something like "zone" would prevent Hakeem, a great midrange shooter, from dominating. :confusedshrug:
Colts18...
[QUOTE]I decided to rewatch the 1995 finals and chart each possession to see to how effective Shaq and Hakeem were on the court. A special shout out to Jordanbulls for providing the video of this series
Total:
Hakeem: 253 touches, 140 doubles (55.3%)
Shaq: 221 touches, 146 doubles (66.1%)
Here are their stats when they were guarded by each other:
Shaq 32-57 (56.1 FG%), 6-8 FT, 67.3 double teamed%, .578 TS%, 17 assists, 1 O-reb allowed to Hakeem
Hakeem: 31-75 (41.3 FG%), 9-13 FT, 60.2 double teamed%, .446 TS%, 8 assists, 3 O-reb allowed to Shaq
Shaq blocked 2 Hakeem shots, Hakeem blocked 0 Shaq shots. Hakeem did make a 3P on Shaq. Hakeem guarded Shaq on 73.3% of the touches he had, while Shaq guarded Hakeem on 69.6% of his touches. Hakeem got a lot more fastbreak touches than Shaq so in the halfcourt, they guarded each other about even.
When they weren't being guarded by each other, Shaq was being guarded by Charles Jones and Hakeem by Horace Grant.
Shaq vs Jones: 7-11 FG (63.6 FG%), 35 doubles in 52 touches (67.3%), 2 assists
Hakeem vs Grant: 13-24 (54.2 FG%), 33 double teams in 58 touches (56.9%), 6 assists
Jump shots:
Hakeem: 27-62 (43.5%)
Shaq: 2-7 (28.6%)
The vast majority of Shaq's shots were close range hooks.
Dunks:
Hakeem: 1 dunk (vs grant)
Shaq: 9 dunks (2 of them were in Hakeem's face)
Fouls drawn on offense:
Shaq: 37 (17 on Hakeem)
Hakeem: 21 (9 on Shaq)
Hakeem did draw 4 Shaq charges.
Shaq was called for 5 travels, Hakeem 2.
Plus/Minus (Houston outscored Orlando by 28 points total):
On court:
Shaq: -12 in 180 minutes
Hakeem: +17 in 179 minutes
Off court:
Shaq: -16 in 16:37 of action (Houston scored 133 points per 48 in the minutes Shaq missed)
Hakeem: +11 in 17:11 of action (134 points per 48 in the minutes he was off the court)
Interestingly enough, in 2 of the games, the Magic outscored the Rockets when Shaq was on the court. The magic were -8 in about 9 minutes of action without Shaq in game (lost by just 2 points). In game 3, they were -4 in the minutes Shaq missed in a game where they lost by 3 points. In game 1, the Rockets outscored the magic by 9 in the minutes Hakeem missed, but they were outscored by a combined 4 points in games 3 and 4 without Hakeem.
Observations:
-Orlando was for some reason really committed to doubling Hakeem in game 1. They were throwing a lot of hard doubles. Hakeem had 5 assists in that game, all of them 3 pointers, 4 came off of doubles (one was a triple team). I'm guessing it was a response to Hakeem's series vs Robinson. For the rest of the series, Orlando didn't double Hakeem as much and they threw softer doubles.
-Hakeem made like 5 or 6 baskets in transition to Shaq's 1 or so. So while Shaq didn't get credit for giving up those buckets since he didn't guard, a few of those times Shaq was slow in transition. Shaq got about 3 or shots
-One of the commentators compared Horry to Scottie Pippen and Walton took the comment seriously. They are vastly different players IMO
-I'm not sure why Penny wasn't more aggressive. Kenny Smith couldn't guard him at all. When Penny did drive to the basket, he made a few shots over Hakeem.
-Drexler was the man in this series. He really wanted to get his first title badly. For some reason, people rarely talk about him despite him getting more WS than Hakeem in that playoff run
-It's fashionable these days to **** on Hakeem's cast in 94, but this cast was much better than that one. The guards outplayed Orlando's guards. Horry played really well. The 3P shooters benefited a lot from the shortened 3P line.
-Contrary to popular belief, handchecking wasn't allowed in 95. The refs called like 2 handchecking fouls in this series
-I'm so thankful the NBA got rid of the illegal defense. The refs called like 5 of them in each game. It destroyed the flow of the game and limited the ways you could double team a player. [/QUOTE]
Exactly as I saw the series. There has been so much revisionist history regarding this nonsense that Hakeem outplayed Shaq in that series (and I don't give a damn about what Shaq said, either.)
Best case for Hakeem...a draw. Reality...Shaq, as he would his entire career against Hakeem, outplayed him (and there is no doubt as to who was the more dominant player in their career head-to-heads, either...Shaq outplayed Hakeem in EVERY facet of the game.)
The reality was, Hakeem's teammates wiped out Shaq's. They outshot Shaq's teammates by a huge margin; had every bit as much of an edge from the arc; and of course the stat that no one ever brings up...Take away Hakeem and Shaq's free throws, and Hakeem's teammates made 50 more FTs. The fact was, three of those four games were won at the FT line.
Hakeem outscored Shaq in that series by five pts per game...and did so with ten more FGAs per game. Shaq was superior in every other area of the game.
Hakeem has become vastly overrated in the last decade. And I find it amusing that very few actually take the time to look up their career head-to-heads. Very onesided in Shaq's favor.
As for the OP, no question that a title and another MVP will easily vault Lebron past Hakeem. There will be no criteria that exists that would place Hakeem over him.
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]As for the OP, no question that a title and another MVP will easily vault Lebron past Hakeem. There will be no criteria that exists that would place Hakeem over him.[/QUOTE]
your mother loves hakeem's c0ck a lot more jlauber
[QUOTE=BlackJoker23]your mother loves hakeem's c0ck a lot more jlauber[/QUOTE]
This coming from the son of a toothless Georgian backwoods hillbilly.
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]As for the OP, no question that a title and another MVP will easily vault Lebron past Hakeem. There will be no criteria that exists that would place Hakeem over him.[/QUOTE]
teammates. road to playoffs.
:pimp: