Printable View
[QUOTE=mehyaM24]- defended magic the best of anyone in that series (20/9/7 with DPOY defense is a bill russell-like series)
- was the best defensive player and playmaker in the 97 finals (20/8/3 with DPOY defense, once again, is russell-like)
i know that jordan fans only think offense = basketball, but there's also another side. its called defense :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Jordan has no defense? :lol :oldlol: :roll:
[QUOTE=Soundwave]Barkley was traded for Hornacek as the best player going to Philly and at that time he one really good season under his belt and 2 other solid ones.
So it's not like they sold the farm to get him.
Get Jordan to the Lakers and they eventually would surround him with very good talent IMO. Jerry Buss wanted Jordan badly especially after the LA Kings landed Wayne Gretzky and became the talk of the town.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but it was not Barkley for Hornacek straight up. The Suns also had to give up 2 other starters in addition to Hornacek. That would be like trading MJ to New York and NY giving up Ewing, Starks and Smith in exchange.
Yeah I do agree MJ going to a competent organization would likely eventually win (and I believe Krause did a great job assembling and then re-tooling the 80's and 90's Bulls). The question is when? When would MJ have enough? Let's say he demanded a trade at 27 or 28. Then it would take them a few years to build around him, so maybe by 29 or 30 they were contenders. Even that is not a given. The Lakers could not do it with KAJ until they got lucky with drafting Magic but if he want to a team with a good FO like the Lakers they would build fast. MJ could have wound up like KAJ in LA spending several years before they built a championship team. KAJ was 32 by the time he got Magic.
[QUOTE=mehyaM24]- defended magic the best of anyone in that series (20/9/7 with DPOY defense is a bill russell-like series)
- was the best defensive player and playmaker in the 97 finals (20/8/3 with DPOY defense, once again, is russell-like)
i know that jordan fans only think offense = basketball, but there's also another side. its called defense :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Pippen guarded Magic for 1 half of basketball idiot.:facepalm
Mj was the primary defender even after game 2. Mj was wayyyyyy better in 91 your a complete retard.
97 Mj made all the clutch plays.
[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]Yeah but it was not Barkley for Hornacek straight up. The Suns also had to give up 2 other starters in addition to Hornacek. That would be like trading MJ to New York and NY giving up Ewing, Starks and Smith in exchange.
Yeah I do agree MJ going to a competent organization would likely eventually win (and I believe Krause did a great job assembling and then re-tooling the 80's and 90's Bulls). The question is when? When would MJ have enough? Let's say he demanded a trade at 27 or 28. Then it would take them a few years to build around him, so maybe by 29 or 30 they were contenders. Even that is not a given. The Lakers could not do it with KAJ until they got lucky with drafting Magic but if he want to a team with a good FO like the Lakers they would build fast. MJ could have wound up like KAJ in LA spending several years before they built a championship team. KAJ was 32 by the time he got Magic.[/QUOTE]
Tim Perry and Andrew Lang were no where near as good as John Starks alone. So I don't buy that. That package was OK, but nothing that special either.
Hornacek is no where close to a Patrick Ewing either, lol.
I think MJ would've come under pressure from his agent David Falk and the marketing people at Nike to get out of Chicago by 1989 or so if the team wasn't showing tangible signs of being competitive by then. I think a trade around the summer of 1990 if the Bulls were still putrid probably would've occurred.
[QUOTE=Soundwave]Good thing Jordan is one of the best defensive players to ever have played the game :oldlol:
He is pretty much the apex of an NBA player mastering both offence and defence and team dominance simultaneously.
What argument are you even trying to push?[/QUOTE]
jordan was a great defender, just like pippen was a GREAT offensive player.
thing is, pippen's defense carried impact like a big. some of the all time bigs actually. his defensive rating (adjusted impact) is right there with hakeem and drob (according to drtg, 2 of the most dominant players defensively).
of course this only proves the point i am trying to illustrate. jordan fans only care about offense, but ignore that pippen was by FAR the best defensive player (and playmaker) on the team.
[QUOTE=Asukal]Jordan has no defense? :lol :oldlol: :roll:[/QUOTE]
^crazy jordan fans seeing things :oldlol:
where did i say jordan "has no defense"?
[QUOTE=mehyaM24]jordan was a great defender, just like pippen was a GREAT offensive player.
thing is, pippen's defense carried impact like a big. some of the all time bigs actually. his defensive rating (adjusted impact) is right there with hakeem and drob.
of course this only proves the point i am trying to illustrate. jordan fans only care about offense, but ignore that pippen was by FAR the best defensive player (and playmaker) on the team.[/QUOTE]
Not really equivalent, Jordan is probably the best defensive SG ever and one of the top 10 defenders in NBA history ... Scottie Pippen is nowhere near the best offensive SF ever.
Tex Winters (I believe) said Jordan was the better defender too, but hey I guess he doesn't know what he's talking about.
Jordan was arguably the most complete player ever to play the game at the highest levels, so this is just a stupid argument to press on with, but be my guest, lol.
Pippen was a good offensive player, *great*, lol I'd probably reserve that for players like Bird, David Robinson, Hakeem, etc. those are great offensive players.
[QUOTE=juju151111]Pippen guarded Magic for 1 half of basketball idiot.:facepalm
Mj was the primary defender even after game 2. Mj was wayyyyyy better in 91 your a complete retard.
97 Mj made all the clutch plays.[/QUOTE]
per phil jackson, pippen was the best defender in that series (or "set the tone", he says). :confusedshrug:
97 jordan got out rebounded, assisted and was horrible on defense. his scoring was great, but again, thats only one part of the game.
[QUOTE=mehyaM24]per phil jackson, pippen was the best defender in that series (or "set the tone", he says). :confusedshrug:
97 jordan got out rebounded, assisted and [B]was horrible on defense[/B] in 97. his scoring was great, but again, only one part of the game.[/QUOTE]
:biggums:
:facepalm
:lol :oldlol: :roll:
[QUOTE=mehyaM24]^crazy jordan fans seeing things :oldlol:
where did i say jordan "has no defense"?[/QUOTE]
Because that is exactly what you are implying moron. :oldlol:
Just accept it, Jordan is the GOAT and Pip was his sidekick. Deal with it. :pimp:
[QUOTE=Asukal]Because that is exactly what you are implying moron. :oldlol:
Just accept it, Jordan is the GOAT and Pip was his sidekick. Deal with it. :pimp:[/QUOTE]
jordan won a dpoy in the 80s. was on multiple all-nba teams for his defensive expertise. why would i "imply" that he played no defense? :facepalm
[QUOTE=Soundwave]Not really equivalent, Jordan is probably the best defensive SG ever and one of the top 10 defenders in NBA history ... Scottie Pippen is nowhere near the best offensive SF ever.
Tex Winters (I believe) said Jordan was the better defender too, but hey I guess he doesn't know what he's talking about.
Jordan was arguably the most complete player ever to play the game at the highest levels, so this is just a stupid argument to press on with, but be my guest, lol.
Pippen was a good offensive player, *great*, lol I'd probably reserve that for players like Bird, David Robinson, Hakeem, etc. those are great offensive players.[/QUOTE]
phil jackson and the bulls players said pippen was the best playmaker, defender, and their captain. but alright. :confusedshrug:
pippen's defense can be measured, and it was damn near on the level of hakeems. jordans defense NEVER had that kind of impact.
[QUOTE=mehyaM24]per phil jackson, pippen was the best defender in that series (or "set the tone", he says). :confusedshrug:
97 jordan got out rebounded, assisted and was horrible on defense. his scoring was great, but again, thats only one part of the game.[/QUOTE]
You still not explaining to me how Pippen deserve MVP over Mj in 91. Mj had better numbers across the board including gamewinne r and Mj played great defense too. So you make no Damn sense.
Horrible on defense my ass and stay off the Pipe. Mj has 6 finals MVP and Pippen has none. Mj has 5 MVPs and Pippen has none.
[QUOTE=mehyaM24]phil jackson and the bulls players said pippen was the best playmaker, defender, and their captain. but alright. :confusedshrug:
pippen's defense can be measured, and it was damn near on the level of hakeems. jordans defense NEVER had that kind of impact.[/QUOTE]
Yeah and? Jordan is the greatest player ever, and probably the most complete period. Great offensive player, great defender, great competitor/winner/prime time player.
Pippen is not in that class of player. And that's no disrespect to him. Jordan's luminaries are Wilt, Kareem, Russell, Magic, Bird, etc. not Pippen. End of discussion.
There's no one on the planet that would give Pippen the Finals MVP in '91 either.
[QUOTE=Soundwave]Yeah and? Jordan is the greatest player ever, and probably the most complete period.
Pippen is not in that class of player. And that's no disrespect to him. End of discussion.[/QUOTE]
i think my point was obvious.
pippen was more complete than jordan. better playmaker, defender, rebounder, and had more winning intangibles (11 wins without jordan in the playoffs- jordan 1-9 without pippen).
here are some awesome videos highlighting pippen's versatility:
[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KkJoMq_Z7A"]Scottie Pippen: Complete Player[/URL]
[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB2NmpVEnjs"]Scottie Pippen: Complete Player 2[/URL]