Remember when 34-35 year old MJ was more dominant than 2000 Shaq?

[QUOTE=Yoshi]

regarding the defensive side of the ball for the Bulls - the Bulls' DRtg in 1994 (6th) wasn't any better relative to the league than the first 3-peat (7th, 4th, 7th).. Accordingly, the massive decline from 3-peat dynasty to 2nd Round team was due [I]entirely[/I] to the absence of MJ's [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12082990&postcount=185]goat offense[/url], which caused their ORtg to crater from #1 all-time (during the 3-peat) to 14th in the league in 1994.

[/QUOTE]
Indeed - teams have a finite amount of energy to expend on both ends - shifts in performance/effort on one side normally take away from the other side.. But even though the Bulls offense fell off a cliff in 1994 and they focused more on defense, their defense didn't improve relative to the league because they were missing their [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOgJhzj4W9M&t=35m00s]best defender[/url].

Otoh, the presence of MJ gave the Bulls the highest ORtg's of all time.. But this GOAT improvement on offense didn't come at the expense of defense like it would for most teams.. His presence enabled a TWO-WAY team, which isn't surprising, since he's the goat two-way player according to [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11875095&postcount=46]Popovich[/url].

So imagine Kawhi Leonard (as Popovich references), with the capability of scoring 15 more ppg.. That's Jordan... That's the GOAT.

[QUOTE=3ball]Your literally defending an anonymous poster who you don't know... He could be a child molester - we know he's had an online fixation for at least 7 years.



What context?... The data speaks for itself.

In 2000, Kobe averaged 15 ppg on 35% in 2000 Finals - amazingly, that's worse than Pippen's 15 ppg on 41% in 1998 Finals - so Kobe was providing LESS help than Pippen, but Shaq was still scoring a far lower proportion of his team's points than MJ.

34-35 year old MJ was simply much more dominant than Shaq... Deal with it without coming to the defense of potential child molesters.[/QUOTE]

Here's some math for you, f*ggot.

You have 7,003 more posts than this "anonymous poster." 7,003 more posts in less time from 2014-2016 opposed to his 2009 join date. Who has an online fixation, bitch?

F*ck off.

Get a life. No one can win with you. Your goal posts get farther and farther because you keep moving them to fit your agenda.

You're not always right.

[QUOTE=Koresh]

You're not always right.

[/QUOTE]
i am regarding the stats i post about jordan


[QUOTE=Koresh]

Here's some math for you, f*ggot.

You have 7,003 more posts than this "anonymous poster." 7,003 more posts in less time from 2014-2016 opposed to his 2009 join date. Who has an online fixation, bitch?

F*ck off.

Get a life. No one can win with you. Your goal posts get farther and farther because you keep moving them to fit your agenda.

[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://awesomelyluvvie.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/tumblr_md42dow0sv1r5x5zu.gif[/IMG]

.
[COLOR="White"].........[/COLOR][COLOR="darkRed"][SIZE="3"][I][B]Percentage of team points scored while player was on floor[/B][/I][/SIZE][/COLOR]


[COLOR="White"].........................[/COLOR][B]RS[/B][COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR][B]RS 4th[/B][COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] [B]PO[/B][COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR][B]PO 4th[/B][COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR][B]Finals[/B][COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] [B]Finals 4th[/B]


[I][B]JORDAN 1997[/B][/I]... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]36.0[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4]40.1[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs]37.7[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]46.3[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]40.9[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4]50.4[/url] [B][COLOR="Green"]<--- links to data[/COLOR][/B]
[I][B]JORDAN 1998[/B][/I]... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]36.3[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4]42.1[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs]39.7[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]48.8[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]43.6[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4]49.1[/url]


[I][B]SHAQ 2000[/B][/I]....... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]35.0[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4]38.1[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Playoffs]34.0[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]39.4[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]38.4[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4]43.9[/url]
[I][B]SHAQ 2001[/B][/I]....... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2000-01&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]33.9[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2000-01&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4]38.0[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2000-01&SeasonType=Playoffs]33.9[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2000-01&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]34.0[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2000-01&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]35.4[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2000-01&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4]26.2[/url]
[I][B]SHAQ 2002[/B][/I]....... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2001-02&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]33.1[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2001-02&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4]35.3[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2001-02&SeasonType=Playoffs]33.5[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2001-02&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]25.7[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2001-02&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]38.1[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2001-02&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]28.2[/url]




[COLOR="White"].......[/COLOR][COLOR="darkRed"][SIZE="3"][I][B]Percentages of team points [COLOR="Red"]+ assists[/COLOR] while player was on floor[/B][/I][/SIZE][/COLOR]


[COLOR="White"].........................[/COLOR][B]RS[/B][COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR][B]RS 4th[/B][COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] [B]PO[/B][COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR][B]PO 4th[/B][COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR][B]Finals[/B][COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] [B]Finals 4th[/B]


[I][B]JORDAN 1997[/B][/I]... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]57.1[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4]63.0[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs]64.0[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]84.5[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]73.6[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4]91.1[/url]
[I][B]JORDAN 1998[/B][/I]... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]54.3[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4]53.6[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs]59.4[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]76.5[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]58.3[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4]69.1[/url]


[I][B]SHAQ 2000[/B][/I]....... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]53.9[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4]59.9[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Playoffs]49.3[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]55.4[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]48.7[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4]64.5[/url]
[I][B]SHAQ 2001[/B][/I]....... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2000-01&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]52.4[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2000-01&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4]56.5[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2000-01&SeasonType=Playoffs]49.4[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2000-01&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]54.9[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2000-01&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]57.4[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2000-01&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4]59.5[/url]
[I][B]SHAQ 2002[/B][/I]....... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2001-02&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]51.3[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2001-02&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4]51.9[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2001-02&SeasonType=Playoffs]49.5[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2001-02&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]44.6[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2001-02&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]55.5[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2001-02&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]54.9[/url]



[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/bxnXSJV07za7e/giphy.gif[/IMG]



[QUOTE=ClipperRevival]

You didn't specify in your title that it was just about offense.

[/QUOTE]
When comparing a center and a guard, it makes no sense to consider defensive impact - if we give extra credit to Shaq's naturally greater defensive impact at center, that assumes the Bulls didn't have a center AT ALL.. But they did have a center.

The Bulls had a center that could offset Shaq's impact, while the Lakers had a SG that could offset Jordan's - in this case, Longley offset Shaq in the defensive boxscore far more than Kobe offset Jordan, which illustrates the point pretty well (as shown below).

That's why the defensive end should generally be considered a wash when comparing an ATG center to an ATG guard - if anything, the edge should to to the player who was better relative to the peers at their position, which would be MJ (best defensive SG in the league, 9 first-team defense.... compared to Shaq's 3 second teams in 17 years, no first teams).


[I][COLOR="Navy"]LONGLEY DBPM and DRTG[/COLOR][/I]: 1.7.. 102
[I][COLOR="Navy"]O'NEAL[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] DBPM and DRTG[/COLOR][/I]: 1.6.. 101

[COLOR="DarkRed"][B]Longley offset what Shaq did defensively far more than Kobe offset Jordan:[/B][/COLOR]

[I][COLOR="Navy"]JORDAN DBPM and DRTG[/COLOR][/I]: 1.1, 103
[I][COLOR="Navy"]KOBE[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] DBPM and DRTG[/COLOR][/I]: [COLOR="Red"]-0.5[/COLOR], 105


Btw, unlike jordan, shaq wouldn't be a good defender in THIS era, where big men don't stand in the paint on defense like they used to - shaq's big ass taking up space was the #1 reason he had a decent impact defensively (imo)... the times he managed to shuffle his feet defensively were infrequent because he didn't have to come out on the perimeter often like today's bigs do, and he wasn't as good on the perimeter as say, Hakeem or Robinson.
.

[QUOTE]When comparing a center and a guard, it makes no sense to consider defensive impact - if we give extra credit to Shaq's naturally greater defensive impact at center, that assumes the Bulls didn't have a center AT ALL.. [B]But they did have a center.[/B]

The Bulls had a center that could offset Shaq's impact, while the Lakers had a SG that could offset Jordan's - in this case, [B]Longley offset Shaq[/B] in the defensive boxscore far more than Kobe offset Jordan, which illustrates the point pretty well (as shown below).[/QUOTE]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[QUOTE]When comparing a center and a guard, it makes no sense to consider defensive impact - if we give extra credit to Shaq's naturally greater defensive impact at center, that assumes the Bulls didn't have a center AT ALL.. [B]But they did have a center.
[/B]
The Bulls had a center that could offset Shaq's impact, while the Lakers had a SG that could offset Jordan's - in this case, [B]Longley offset Shaq[/B] in the defensive boxscore far more than Kobe offset Jordan, which illustrates the point pretty well (as shown below).[/QUOTE]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[QUOTE]When comparing a center and a guard, it makes no sense to consider defensive impact - if we give extra credit to Shaq's naturally greater defensive impact at center, that assumes the Bulls didn't have a center AT ALL.. [B]But they did have a center.
[/B]
The Bulls had a center that could offset Shaq's impact, while the Lakers had a SG that could offset Jordan's - in this case, [B]Longley offset Shaq[/B] in the defensive boxscore far more than Kobe offset Jordan, which illustrates the point pretty well (as shown below).[/QUOTE]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

First of all, claiming that Longley had more impact than Kobe. Just hilarious.

But even more hilarious...even putting Longley in the same sentence as Shaq is just downright gut-busting.

You are something else Goofball.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[QUOTE]
When comparing a center and a guard, it makes no sense to consider defensive impact - if we give extra credit to Shaq's naturally greater defensive impact at center, that assumes the Bulls didn't have a center AT ALL.. [B]But they did have a center[/B].

The Bulls had a center that could offset Shaq's impact, while the Lakers had a SG that could offset Jordan's - in this case, [B]Longley offset Shaq[/B] in the defensive boxscore far more than Kobe offset Jordan, which illustrates the point pretty well (as shown below).[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=onealsh01&p2=longllu01[/url]

And look at Shaq's numbers in his 2000 season against that pathetic clown that you call a center.

Just murdered that POS.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

.
[B]Learn to read Lazeruss - stop trolling and lying about what I said - THIS is what I said:
[/B]

When comparing a center and a guard for the purposes of evaluating [I][COLOR="Navy"]who was the better BASKETBALL PLAYER[/COLOR][/I], it makes no sense to consider defensive impact - if we give extra credit to Shaq's naturally greater defensive impact at center, that assumes the Bulls didn't have a center AT ALL.. But the Bulls did have a center, just like all teams have a center - so you it doesn't make sense to compare Shaq's defensive impact to Jordan's directly.

Like all teams, the Bulls had a center that could offset Shaq's impact, while the Lakers had a SG that could offset Jordan's - in this case, Longley offset Shaq in the defensive boxscore far more than Kobe offset Jordan, which illustrates the point pretty well (as shown below).

That's why the defensive end should generally be considered a wash when comparing an ATG center to an ATG guard - if anything, the edge should to to the player who was better relative to the peers at their position, which would be MJ (best defensive SG in the league, 9 first-team defense.... compared to Shaq's 3 second teams in 17 years, no first teams).


[I][COLOR="Navy"]LONGLEY DBPM and DRTG[/COLOR][/I]: 1.7.. 102
[I][COLOR="Navy"]O'NEAL[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] DBPM and DRTG[/COLOR][/I]: 1.6.. 101

[COLOR="DarkRed"][B]Longley offset what Shaq did defensively far more than Kobe offset Jordan:[/B][/COLOR]

[I][COLOR="Navy"]JORDAN DBPM and DRTG[/COLOR][/I]: 1.1, 103
[I][COLOR="Navy"]KOBE[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] DBPM and DRTG[/COLOR][/I]: [COLOR="Red"]-0.5[/COLOR], 105



[SIZE="3"][B]And there's no answer for the offensive side of the ball:[/B][/SIZE]



[COLOR="White"].........[/COLOR][COLOR="darkRed"][SIZE="3"][I][B]Percentage of team points scored while player was on floor[/B][/I][/SIZE][/COLOR]


[COLOR="White"].........................[/COLOR][B]RS[/B][COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR][B]RS 4th[/B][COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] [B]PO[/B][COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR][B]PO 4th[/B][COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR][B]Finals[/B][COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] [B]Finals 4th[/B]


[I][B]JORDAN 1997[/B][/I]... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]36.0[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4]40.1[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs]37.7[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]46.3[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]40.9[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4]50.4[/url] [B][COLOR="Green"]<--- links to data[/COLOR][/B]
[I][B]JORDAN 1998[/B][/I]... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]36.3[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4]42.1[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs]39.7[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]48.8[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]43.6[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4]49.1[/url]


[I][B]SHAQ 2000[/B][/I]....... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]35.0[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4]38.1[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Playoffs]34.0[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]39.4[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]38.4[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4]43.9[/url]
[I][B]SHAQ 2001[/B][/I]....... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2000-01&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]33.9[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2000-01&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4]38.0[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2000-01&SeasonType=Playoffs]33.9[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2000-01&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]34.0[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2000-01&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]35.4[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2000-01&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4]26.2[/url]
[I][B]SHAQ 2002[/B][/I]....... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2001-02&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]33.1[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2001-02&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4]35.3[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2001-02&SeasonType=Playoffs]33.5[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2001-02&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]25.7[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2001-02&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]38.1[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2001-02&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]28.2[/url]




[COLOR="White"].......[/COLOR][COLOR="darkRed"][SIZE="3"][I][B]Percentages of team points [COLOR="Red"]+ assists[/COLOR] while player was on floor[/B][/I][/SIZE][/COLOR]


[COLOR="White"].........................[/COLOR][B]RS[/B][COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR][B]RS 4th[/B][COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] [B]PO[/B][COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR][B]PO 4th[/B][COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR][B]Finals[/B][COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] [B]Finals 4th[/B]


[I][B]JORDAN 1997[/B][/I]... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]57.1[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4]63.0[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs]64.0[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]84.5[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]73.6[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4]91.1[/url]
[I][B]JORDAN 1998[/B][/I]... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]54.3[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4]53.6[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs]59.4[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]76.5[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]58.3[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/usage/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4&PORound=4]69.1[/url]


[I][B]SHAQ 2000[/B][/I]....... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]53.9[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4]59.9[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Playoffs]49.3[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]55.4[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]48.7[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4]64.5[/url]
[I][B]SHAQ 2001[/B][/I]....... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2000-01&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]52.4[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2000-01&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4]56.5[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2000-01&SeasonType=Playoffs]49.4[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2000-01&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]54.9[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2000-01&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]57.4[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2000-01&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&Period=4]59.5[/url]
[I][B]SHAQ 2002[/B][/I]....... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2001-02&SeasonType=Regular%20Season]51.3[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2001-02&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Period=4]51.9[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2001-02&SeasonType=Playoffs]49.5[/url]..... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2001-02&SeasonType=Playoffs&Period=4]44.6[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2001-02&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]55.5[/url]...... [url=http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/usage/?Season=2001-02&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4]54.9[/url]

[QUOTE=3ball].
[B]Learn to read Lazeruss - stop trolling and lying about what I said - THIS is what I said:
[/B]

When comparing a center and a guard for the purposes of evaluating [I][COLOR="Navy"]who was the better BASKETBALL PLAYER[/COLOR][/I], it makes no sense to consider defensive impact - if we give extra credit to Shaq's naturally greater defensive impact at center, that assumes the Bulls didn't have a center AT ALL.. But the Bulls did have a center, just like all teams have a center.

The Bulls had a center that could offset Shaq's impact, while the Lakers had a SG that could offset Jordan's - in this case, Longley offset Shaq in the defensive boxscore far more than Kobe offset Jordan, which illustrates the point pretty well (as shown below).

That's why the defensive end should generally be considered a wash when comparing an ATG center to an ATG guard - if anything, the edge should to to the player who was better relative to the peers at their position, which would be MJ (best defensive SG in the league, 9 first-team defense.... compared to Shaq's 3 second teams in 17 years, no first teams).


[I][COLOR="Navy"]LONGLEY DBPM and DRTG[/COLOR][/I]: 1.7.. 102
[I][COLOR="Navy"]O'NEAL[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] DBPM and DRTG[/COLOR][/I]: 1.6.. 101

[COLOR="DarkRed"][B]Longley offset what Shaq did defensively far more than Kobe offset Jordan:[/B][/COLOR]

[I][COLOR="Navy"]JORDAN DBPM and DRTG[/COLOR][/I]: 1.1, 103
[I][COLOR="Navy"]KOBE[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] DBPM and DRTG[/COLOR][/I]: [COLOR="Red"]-0.5[/COLOR], 105[/QUOTE]

You are showing me absolutely nothing.

BUT, I have shown you that we KNOW that Shaq had a FAR greater IMPACT against that stumble-bum Longley H2H for cryingoutloud.

BTW, [B]Kobe was [COLOR="DarkRed"]1st team[/COLOR] all-defense in 2000[/B].

As for your defensive ratings...pure shit, as always.

Maybe you can find me a game in one of Longley's many Finals in which he took over after Jordan fouled out like Kobe did in game four of the 2000 Finals.

Kobe in 2000 was just coming into his own, and by 2001 was an elite defender that was carrying the Lakers past the Duncan-Robinson Spurs.

Longley was just a career worthless POS that had ZERO impact at any time in his career.

You are just hilarious.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Shaq > Jordan

And it's not even Close.

Shaq was unstoppable in 2000.

.
[SIZE="3"][B][COLOR="darkRed"]Hey Lazeruss - I figured out a better way to make my point:[/color][/b][/size]


Since Jordan has the bigger defensive advantage against peers at his position (best defensive SG in league), he gives his team a bigger advantage on the defensive side of the ball than Shaq, whose defensive advantage is much smaller in his matchups with peers at the center position.

Jordan was the best defensive SG in the league for 10 straight seasons and made 9 First-Team All-Defense - so he has a bigger defensive edge vs. his peers than Shaq, who only made only 3 Second-Team All-Defense in 17 seasons (no first teams), and therefore gives his team a smaller defensive edge vs. his peers..
.

[img]https://49.media.tumblr.com/82ccf3a22a93759166d269d9dbbc14b4/tumblr_n6tbvtqvNY1qg9ai1o1_500.gif[/img]

[QUOTE=3ball].
[SIZE="3"][B][COLOR="darkRed"]Hey Lazeruss - I figured out a better way to make my point:[/color][/b][/size]


Since Jordan has the bigger defensive advantage against peers at his position (best defensive SG in league), he gives his team a bigger advantage on the defensive side of the ball than Shaq, whose defensive advantage is much smaller in his matchups with peers at the center position.

Jordan was the best defensive SG in the league for 10 straight seasons and made 9 First-Team All-Defense - so he has a bigger defensive edge vs. his peers than Shaq, who only made only 3 Second-Team All-Defense in 17 seasons (no first teams), and therefore gives his team a smaller defensive edge vs. his peers..
.[/QUOTE]

Why does it matter the advantage against peers?

The question is, who had more defensive impact, 00 O'Neal or 97' Jordan. That's it, the rest of the players don't matter here.

Who had more defensive impact, peak Pippen or peak David Lee? Peak Moncrief or peak Bargnani? Answers to these questions are obvious, there is no need at all to look at their contemporary peers. I don't understand why you talk about Longley here, we are comparing O'Neal to Jordan, that's it

[QUOTE=3ball].
[SIZE="3"][B][COLOR="darkRed"]Hey Lazeruss - I figured out a better way to make my point:[/color][/b][/size]


Since Jordan has the bigger defensive advantage against peers at his position (best defensive SG in league), he gives his team a bigger advantage on the defensive side of the ball than Shaq, whose defensive advantage is much smaller in his matchups with peers at the center position.

Jordan was the best defensive SG in the league for 10 straight seasons and made 9 First-Team All-Defense - so he has a bigger defensive edge vs. his peers than Shaq, who only made only 3 Second-Team All-Defense in 17 seasons (no first teams), and therefore gives his team a smaller defensive edge vs. his peers..
.[/QUOTE]

Intereresting...

You KNOW that I could post a PRIME Shaq's H2H's against Ewing, Hakeem, and Robinson, and he just blew them all away, right?

Not even close. A 22 year Shaq was pummeling a prime Hakeem in the Finals (BTW, he outshot him from the field by a staggering .590 to .483 margin.) And after that H2H, it was basically a Shaq in a tank and driving on the same freeway in a 100 degree day, as the cube of butter that Hakeem was, was laying in.