09' Mo outproduced 16' Klay

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Thread Cliffs

09' Lebron enjoyed better statistical production from his high usage/high ppg teammates (sidekick) than 16' Curry got from his sidekick.

However, Curry got slightly more production from replaceable [I]low[/I] usage players, due to the equitable, ball movement system that his skillset allows... Systems are meant to boost the role players, and Curry's skillet allows such a system.. Every dynasty used a ball movement system that required an all-time off-ball player like Curry, Duncan, Shaq or MJ.

Ultimately, the 09' Cavs, 16' Warriors and 07' Mavs were 1-man teams that got upset in the playoffs.. The were also upset [U]by[/U] 1-man teams (Dwight, Baron), except Lebron's big 3 preseason favorite super-teams (16' Cavs).

If had to choose.... no team in the league would take Mo in their starting line-up for their upcoming 2010 season compared to Klay for their 2017 season.

Mo made 35 3pt'ers in 2009

Klay made 276 in 2016


[I]Mo was better[/I] :roll:

[QUOTE=3ba11;15028826]Klay destroys Mo[/QUOTE]

Correct.

[QUOTE=Hey Yo;15028916]If had to choose.... no team in the league would take Mo in their starting line-up for their upcoming 2010 season compared to Klay for their 2017 season.

Mo made 35 3pt'ers in 2009

Klay made 276 in 2016


[I]Mo was better[/I] :roll:[/QUOTE]


Relative to the league in 2009 (before the 3-point boom), Mo was a top 3 shooter in the league based on 3-point makes and efficiency

This is why he provided more help than Klay based on BPM, WS/48 and VORP

Btw, Lebron is a guy that needs MAJOR playmaking help, so Mo fit the bill, while Klay was trash - he doesn't pass or get to the line, so he lacks the sophistication of Mo

Injuries destroyed Mo's career, but Lebron still got the best Mo (> Klay) and they were an OKC level favorite vs 1-star team in 09'.. Unfortunately, excessive ball-domination can't beat top teams, so Lebron can't carry the scoring load against top teams... Accordingly, he needs more than 18 on 38% (pippen level) - he needs all-time scorers like Wade, Kyrie, AD

And the cherry on top is that Mo arrived on a 45-win team in 2009, but his spacing elevated Lebron's stats and game to 66 wins. . He taught everyone that LeDrive needs spacing to play his best and MVP caliber.. Otoh, great jumpshooters like MJ, SGA, Kobe and Curry can shoot over packed paints, so they can win with bad spacing/three-pt shooting... Accordingly, LeDrive's need for spacing is a weakness

[video=youtube;K_9gGorAfqI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_9gGorAfqI[/video]

[video=youtube;-SPjJ197oKE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=-SPjJ197oKE[/video]

With the season on the line Mo could never.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;15028938][video=youtube;-SPjJ197oKE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=-SPjJ197oKE[/video]

With the season on the line Mo could never.[/QUOTE]

Yeah bron would freeze him out if he started getting that hot. Bron would rather lose than give his teammates any shine, see 2011

If we replaced 09' Mo with Klay, then Lebron would still need an [I]additional player[/I] because the Cavs would have no secondary ball-handler after Lebron and Lebron needs a lot of playmaking help.. It's easy to forget that Jeff McGinnis led the Cavs in assists in 04', and then Lebron needed 5-10 APG guys like Snow, Hughes, Mo, Wade, Kyrie, Rondo and Luka.. he NEVER got by with a nothingburger in the playmaking department like Klorver

[QUOTE=3ba11;15029096]If we replaced 09' Mo with Klay, then Lebron would still need an [I]additional player[/I] because the Cavs would have no secondary ball-handler after Lebron and Lebron needs a lot of playmaking help.. It's easy to forget that Jeff McGinnis led the Cavs in assists in 04', and then Lebron needed 5-10 APG guys like Snow, Hughes, Mo, Wade, Kyrie, Rondo and Luka.. he NEVER got by with a nothingburger in the playmaking department like Klorver[/QUOTE]


Thread Cliffs

Lebron enjoyed better statistical production from Mo in 2009 than Curry got from Klay in 2016.. The 09' Cavs, 16' Warriors and 07' Mavs were simply 1-man teams that got upset in the playoffs.. they were also upset BY one-man teams (Dwight, Baron), except Lebron's big 3 preseason favorite super-team.. Heading into the 2015 season, Curry's Warriors were actually considered a horrible roster with +2800 preseason odds and a sidekick that under-produced 09' Mo or Hornacek.. [I]So the results-oriented saying "73-win team" robs Curry of the 1-man carry-job that Lebron or Dirk got credit for with higher-producing teammates in 09' or 07'.[/I]

[QUOTE=3ba11;15029096]If we replaced 09' Mo with Klay, then Lebron would still need an [I]additional player[/I] because the Cavs would have no secondary ball-handler after Lebron and Lebron needs a lot of playmaking help.. It's easy to forget that Jeff McGinnis led the Cavs in assists in 04', and then Lebron needed 5-10 APG guys like Snow, Hughes, Mo, Wade, Kyrie, Rondo and Luka.. he NEVER got by with a nothingburger in the playmaking department like Klorver[/QUOTE]

He would still need an additional player and playerS because that team would have been the weakest champion sans their #1 player in the modern 3 pt line NBA.

[QUOTE=3ba11;15029098]Thread Cliffs

Lebron enjoyed better statistical production from Mo in 2009 than Curry got from Klay in 2016.. The 09' Cavs, 16' Warriors and 07' Mavs were simply 1-man teams that got upset in the playoffs.. they were also upset BY one-man teams (Dwight, Baron), except Lebron's big 3 preseason favorite super-team.. Heading into the 2015 season, Curry's Warriors were actually considered a horrible roster with +2800 preseason odds and a sidekick that under-produced 09' Mo or Hornacek.. [I]So the results-oriented saying "73-win team" robs Curry of the 1-man carry-job that Lebron or Dirk got credit for with higher-producing teammates in 09' or 07'.[/I][/QUOTE]

You thread-cliffed yourself 9 minutes after your post? Nice.

[QUOTE=Carbine;15029108]He would still need an additional player and playerS because that team would have been the weakest champion sans their #1 player in the modern 3 pt line NBA.[/QUOTE]


Mo's spacing is what allowed LeDrive's stats to explode in 2009 and the team to increase from 45 to 66 wins - Pippen's bricklaying would never be the perfect fit that Mo was, just like Ingram, Hughes or Westbrook were bad fits that failed.

Pippen was a system player, while Mo could get 17 ppg and 6 apg [I]without a system[/I], or create his own shot in the halfcourt, or space the floor - Mo was simply a better scorer than Pippen, while the Cavs had better team defenses than the 1st three-peat Bulls.. The 07' Cavs also had better defensive ranking, which was long before Lebron made All-Defense, so the Cavs simply had a great defensive roster.

Even if you disagree that Mo was a better scorer than Pippen, [I]Jamison easily was[/I] - he was a 20k scorer that outscored Lebron in the 07' 1st Round and was 14th for MVP in 2008 (considered better than Pau before Pau joined Kobe).. Jamison/Shaq were added to a 66-win league favorite.

But I openly concede that the 09' Cavs, 07' Mavs, 16' Warriors or 90's Bulls were 1-man teams... The issue is that if people referred to the 07' Mavs or 09' Cavs as "67-win teams", this would imply they were stacked, thereby robbing Lebron/Dirk of having carry-jobs and 1-man teams.. Similarly, saying "73-win team" robs Curry of having a carry-job and 1-man team, despite a +2800 roster and a sidekick that under-produced 09' Mo, 07' Howard, or Hornacek.

[QUOTE=3ba11;15029168]Mo's spacing is what allowed LeDrive's stats to explode in 2009 and the team to increase from 45 to 66 wins - Pippen's bricklaying would never be the perfect fit that Mo was, just like Ingram, Hughes or Westbrook were bad fits that failed.

Pippen was a system player, while Mo could get 17 ppg and 6 apg [I]without a system[/I], or create his own shot in the halfcourt, or space the floor - Mo was simply a better scorer than Pippen, while the Cavs had better team defenses than the 1st three-peat Bulls.. The 07' Cavs also had better defensive ranking, which was long before Lebron made All-Defense, so the Cavs simply had a great defensive roster.

Even if you disagree that Mo was a better scorer than Pippen, [I]Jamison easily was[/I] - he was a 20k scorer that outscored Lebron in the 07' 1st Round and was 14th for MVP in 2008 (considered better than Pau before Pau joined Kobe).. Jamison/Shaq were added to a 66-win league favorite.

But I openly concede that the 09' Cavs, 07' Mavs, 16' Warriors or 90's Bulls were 1-man teams... The issue is that if people referred to the 07' Mavs or 09' Cavs as "67-win teams", this would imply they were stacked, thereby robbing Lebron/Dirk of having carry-jobs and 1-man teams.. Similarly, saying "73-win team" robs Curry of having a carry-job and 1-man team, despite a +2800 roster and a sidekick that under-produced 09' Mo, 07' Howard, or Hornacek.[/QUOTE]

'16 Warriors a one man team?

LOL

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;15029169]'16 Warriors a one man team?

LOL[/QUOTE]


09' MO......... 2.3 BPM... 0.165 WS.48... 3.1 VORP... 17.2 PER
16' KLAY...... 1.8 BPM... 0.144 WS/48... 2.5 VORP... 18.6 PER


if people referred to the 07' Mavs or 09' Cavs as "67-win teams", this would imply they were stacked, thereby robbing Lebron/Dirk of having carry-jobs and 1-man teams..

Similarly, saying "73-win team" robs Curry of having a carry-job and 1-man team, despite a sidekick that under-produced 09' Mo, 07' Howard, or Hornacek.

The 15' Warriors were considered a horrible roster with +2800 preseason odds, so they shocked the league and took the league by storm in that regular season