Micheal Jordan Denial

[QUOTE]It doesn't matter if Russell would have had 7-8 finals mvp's, the fact remains is that he doesn't.[/QUOTE]

That's a bad excuse, really. Either if they existed or not, the fact remains that Russell was the MVP in more Finals' series than any player in history.

[QUOTE]And when he played their were only 2 playoff rounds, which makes it quite easy to win titles.[/QUOTE]

Whether it was easy or not to win titles, ask his opponents. :)
Actually, in most of these years, there were not 2 rounds, but 3. However, the team with the best record in the conference got a free pass to the Conference Finals up to 1966. And, really, what's the big deal with the absence of the playoff 1st round? Do you think Russell and the Celtics would for some reason fall victim of big-time upsets if there esixted 3 or 4 rounds instead of 2 or 3?

[QUOTE]Who cares about rebound records?[/QUOTE]

Anyone who knows that basketball is not only about shooting and scoring, I guess...

[QUOTE]Wilt averaged 11.7 ppg in the finals one year and never averaged 30 ppg in any finals. That's pathetic for a guy whose main focus was scoring in a fast paced era.[/QUOTE]

How obvious it is that you come from RealGM. :D It's the only place I've seen people use this number. Too bad they convincingly ignore the whole picture (willingly, nonetheless), which says that Wilt averaged 11.7 ppg, 25.0 rpg, likely dissed 3-4 apg, blocked numerous shots and shot at a high FG percentage.
As for the 30 ppg finals, it's once again a deceiving thing. He didn't do so, because in his high scoring years he couldn't get past the Celtics and go to the NBA Finals. He did however average 30+ ppg against the eventual champions in multiple playoff series, anyway, one round before the Finals. It's no wonder that once Wilt's team moved in west, they reached to the 1964 NBA Finals and Wilt averaged 29.2 pts and 27.6 rebs there. If they were already in west for more years, it's very likely that Wilt would have multiple 30+ ppg Finals' series.

[QUOTE]Shaq has 3 finals MVP's and is 3rd all time in finals ppg. Wilt isn't as good nor does he care when it matters most.[/QUOTE]

Again, there's much more than Finals' MVP's and ppg in the Finals...And Shaq is at 28.8 ppg now, so he's lower than #3 (Jerry West is No3, at 30.5 ppg). At least, he's lucky he won't play in more Finals' games and see his numbers go down even more. :)

[QUOTE]Whether it was easy or not to win titles, ask his opponents.
Actually, in most of these years, there were not 2 rounds, but 3. However, the team with the best record in the conference got a free pass to the Conference Finals up to 1966. And, really, what's the big deal with the absence of the playoff 1st round? Do you think Russell and the Celtics would for some reason fall victim of big-time upsets if there esixted 3 or 4 rounds instead of 2 or 3?[/QUOTE]

If 4 rounds existed he would have maybe won 6 titles. He got a break by having a series off while the other team had to battle out the first round. Of course it was easy for him to win titles.

Rebounds were easy in the 60's because guys were only 6'5" and couldn't jump. Also don't forget the pace factor and the fact guys were allowed to play 47 mpg.

[QUOTE]If 4 rounds existed he would have maybe won 6 titles. He got a break by having a series off while the other team had to battle out the first round. Of course it was easy for him to win titles.[/QUOTE]

If you get more than a few days or rest, it's equally easy for your team to get cold and lose a portion of its physique. Read playoff series previews and reviews between teams which got a multiple-day rest and teams which didn't. You'll see that there's always that possibility.
BTW, Russell won his last 2 titles in 3 series' leagues, anyway, while never having a full home court advantage.

[QUOTE]Rebounds were easy in the 60's because guys were only 6'5" and couldn't jump. Also don't forget the pace factor and the fact guys were allowed to play 47 mpg.[/QUOTE]

Man, you had some of the best posters in RealGM educate people as to what a big lie it is that centers were 6'5, yet you come to another board and start all over again with this lie. The "6'5 center" crap has been busted multiple times both here and there. As for the 47 mpg guys, they weren't multiple, either. Only Wilt, Russell (at times) and Oscar would get here. It boosted their numbers somewhat, but deflated their energy, as well.
I'll give you pace factor for rebounding, but, if you extend it to more stats, it appeals to a degree to any era before the last 5-10 years.

Funny how most of the anti-Jordan crowd are Laker/Kobe fans. Let it go Kobe fans. Kobe is nowhere near Jordan in any aspect of basketball, physically or mentally. No current player is close. If someone wants to say, Magic, Wilt, Russell, or even Shaq was better than Jordan. I can accept that opinion. But to say guys like Wade and Kobe are better than him? That's gotta be a joke. Kobe is overrated.

no need to argue with psileas about wilt. his reasons for picking the dipper are sound even if you don't necessarily agree with the conclusion.

[QUOTE=dejordan]no need to argue with psileas about wilt. his reasons for picking the dipper are sound even if you don't necessarily agree with the conclusion.[/QUOTE]
There are a lot of valid cases for past legends. But no valid cases for today's current players.

[QUOTE=Make It Rain]There are a lot of valid cases for past legends. But no valid cases for today's current players.[/QUOTE]
personally i agree with you. a shaq or duncan fanatic might feel like he's got an argument though.

[QUOTE=dejordan]personally i agree with you. a shaq or duncan fanatic might feel like he's got an argument though.[/QUOTE]
I'd tolerate an argument about a Prime Shaq or a Prime Duncan, but neither are in their primes right now.

Also, what people underrate about Jordan is how long his prime was. It was insanely long. And even when he wasn't in his prime anymore, he was still the best.

[QUOTE=EricForman]It may not be fact but it is the overwhelming consensus among fans/commentators/former players/coaches, generally anyone who's watched the game or been around the league for decades.

:)[/QUOTE]

the consensus among the majority of players in the nba and former players and coaches is that Kobe is the best in the world...But no one hear recognizes that...So it is ok to recognize them if you agree but if you dont agree those same people are idiots??

[QUOTE=Make It Rain]Funny how most of the anti-Jordan crowd are Laker/Kobe fans. Let it go Kobe fans. Kobe is nowhere near Jordan in any aspect of basketball, physically or mentally. No current player is close.[B] If someone wants to say, Magic, Wilt, Russell, or even Shaq was better than Jordan. I can accept that opinion.[/B] But to say guys like Wade and Kobe are better than him? That's gotta be a joke. Kobe is overrated.[/QUOTE]

that is all that was said..stop reaching troll

[QUOTE=Younggrease]that is all that was said..stop reaching troll[/QUOTE]
You're the troll. Lemme guess a Kobe fan? Read through the thread 99% of the Jordan hate is by Kobe fans.

when talking about the GOAT,it should a combination of team success + personal individual feats/accomplishments.When taking these into consideration along with clutch factor,Jordan basically beats them all.




I can't find the the exact quote right now but Hubie once said ssomething along the lines of "Wilt was the most dominant offensive force ever and Russell was the most dominant defensive force ever but noone was as equally dominant on both ends as Jordan".

I hope someone can find the link to that Hubie quote above

[QUOTE=kidachi]Kevin Martin too.[/QUOTE]


Thabo Sefolosha is better than MJ too :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=falcon#5]Micheal Jordan was one of the greatest players to play the game but people are going to have to face it sooner or later that they're are players just as good as him if not better.

People are in denial and they will never let anyone be better than Micheal jordan people just wont accept it thats how it is.

People ride off other players before they have even compared them to him because they wont let anyone be better seriously think about it.

woRd OUT[/QUOTE]



MJ was the perfect bball player. if you could customize and create the perfect bball guard it would be MJ, really no flaws in his game and probably more will to win than any athlete in the history of sports.

[QUOTE=Diesel J]when talking about the GOAT,it should a combination of team success + personal individual feats/accomplishments.When taking these into consideration along with clutch factor,Jordan basically beats them all.

Hubie brown sums it all up here...

[b][i]Hubie Brown on Jordan[/i][/b]



I can't find the the exact quote right now but Hubie once said ssomething along the lines of "Wilt was the most dominant offensive force ever and Russell was the most dominant defensive force ever but noone was as equally dominant on both ends as Jordan".

I hope someone can find the link to that Hubie quote above[/QUOTE]


Thank you so much for that. Nice work.

I love Hubie; the way he phrases things...like "game attendance".

I can hear him saying it. Too funny. :oldlol: