ISH All-time Top 25 Guards Project: #2 Kobe Bryant vs Magic Johnson.

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot][B]BREAKING NEWS! Tex Winter said Michael Jordan is the worst passer in NBA History!!![/B]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/8pUmr.png[/IMG]

:facepalm[/QUOTE]

And I care about this why ?

What's does that have to do with Kobe's overrated defense ? Deflection 101 at it's finest. Jordan has nothing to do with this thread. Stay on topic.

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]Of course. Tex Winter was hypercritical to his legendary players. Its an exaggeration. It doesn't invalidate 11 all nba awards.[/QUOTE]
He wasn't being hypocritical. He clearly says Kobe rests on defense/roam now which is true. The MJ statement was a motivational tactic. How do I know that? MJ isn't the worse passer ever. Even if he was trying to motivate Kobe it didn't work because he kept doing the whole season+ playoffs.

[QUOTE=JordanTime]Are you kidding me?

Magic Johnson was rarely guarding other team's opposing PG's. He was guarding 2,3,4, while Bryon Scott defended the 1's. C'mon man.

And i didn't say Magic Johnson was a good defender, i said he was a versatile defender.......................BIG DIFFERENCE.[/QUOTE]
Nope he had that duty 90% of the time.

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]Roaming is playing defense. Its a strategy, that has resulted in two titles and three years of a top 6 defense for the Lakers. Do you really think if Kobe wanted to sit on top of a guy at the 3 pt line in order avoid "his guy" from scoring at the expense of playing team defense it would make the Lakers a better defensive team?[/QUOTE]
:facepalm I have no words for how stupid your post is. :rolleyes: Who says Kobe can't play team defense? Kobe isn't some great help defender either. He conserving energy, go watch some 03 Kobe where he did both then come back snd talked to me. You have to recover to your man.

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]And I care about this why ?

What's does that have to do with Kobe's overrated defense ? Deflection 101 at it's finest. Jordan has nothing to do with this thread. Stay on topic.[/QUOTE]

Jordan isn't whats relevant. It's Tex Winter's criticism. Do you think Jordan was the worst passer in history because Tex Winter said so?

The problem seems to be people watched Kobe and don't think he's that good of a defender yet head coaches seems to think he is. Any explanation for this?

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]Of course it does. Kobe's accolades are treated with a fine toothed comb. No other legend gets the same treatment. Do you see anybody really hyped about how many all defensive team awards Michael Jordan [I]really[/I] earned? When he won the DPOY did anybody bother to create some obscure formula like regularized adjusted +/- (RAPM) to find out that the best defensive player was probably some scrub big man who wouldnt even be in the league without his defensive abilities?

The idea of any player Kobe included winning awards based on his past reputation is even remotely controversial. The funny thing is you guys like to pretend this phenomena begins and ends with Kobe. Every single legend in this game has had a reputation that over inflated his perceived skills as their career progressed. Magic made the all star team for a year he didn't even play. He's won a Finals MVP on the basis of a single game.[/QUOTE]

Man you come of as such a homer. But please, do come up with some next Grassy Knowl theory. Formulas alone don't bring things into prespective. Watch the games and put things into context.

Pretend what ?? Did I make those articles come out of no where ? No I did not. You can find all the articles you want to deflect even more on this topic on Kobe's defense and I will stick on it.

The reason Magic made the all-star game was because people wanted to see him play one last time. He had the contraction of HIV. People wanted to see him again.

Oh and his Finals MVP wasn't deserved ?:

25pts 5 reb 9ast 9/12. Lead both teams in points and assists. But yeah he didn't deserve it. Nevermind the fact that MVP didn't matter, it was a damn touching moment to see Earvin Johnson play basketball in the NBA one more damn time.

My goodness, if you don't understand that then you are delousinal. There are moments in basketball history that go beyond that of a damn box score. Can't even believe I have to explain this to you.

[QUOTE=juju151111]:facepalm I have no words for how stupid your post is. :rolleyes: Who says Kobe can't play team defense? Kobe isn't some great help defender either. He conserving energy, go watch some 03 Kobe where he did both then come back snd talked to me. You have to recover to your man.[/QUOTE]

How about 2010 Kobe, when the Lakers were crowned champions on the strength of their defense? How did Rondo do? How did Ray Allen play? Are you telling me Kobe didn't play defense because he roamed off of Rondo?

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]Jordan isn't whats relevant. It's Tex Winter's criticism. Do you Jordan was the worst passer in history because Tex Winter said so?[/QUOTE]

Bro, you just told me this before:

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot][B]Hmmmmm NBA coaches [/B]or random internet message board posters???

[B]Which opinion should we value more?[/B]

Hating on Kobe has been a passion for many since he declared for the draft. I would be surprised if you could find any awards he has been given that wasn't accompanied on the net by some random internet message board experts arguing against its selection.[/QUOTE]

You tell me. I will be waitng for more B.S. or deflection. Which ever may come first.

[QUOTE=iamgine]The problem seems to be people watched Kobe and don't think he's that good of a defender yet head coaches seems to think he is. Any explanation for this?[/QUOTE]
There are about three to four seasons I would say Kobe didn't deserve to make an all-defensive team. 2005-2006, 2006-2007, 2009-2010, and 2010-2011. Every other season I would say Kobe was worthy of that All-NBA Defensive spot.

A lot of people get carried away though..

[QUOTE=juju151111]:facepalm I have no words for how stupid your post is. :rolleyes: [B]Who says Kobe can't play team defense?[/B] Kobe isn't some great help defender either. He conserving energy, go watch some 03 Kobe where he did both then come back snd talked to me. You have to recover to your man.[/QUOTE]

I know right ?

Who the hell thinks he can't play defense ? We just call it out for being overrated and we have supported this notion with coaches and NBA forums, youtube, etc... to formulate why we feel this way. But were hating on Kobe and his legacy.... SMH...

[QUOTE=DaPerceive]There are about three to four seasons I would say Kobe didn't deserve to make an all-defensive team. 2005-2006, 2006-2007, 2009-2010, and 2010-2011. Every other season I would say Kobe was worthy of that All-NBA Defensive spot.

A lot of people get carried away though..[/QUOTE]

+1.

I feel the same way. His MVP year, he definitely picked up his play on defense.

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]Bro, you just told me this before:



You tell me. I will be waitng for more B.S. or deflection. Which ever may come first.[/QUOTE]

I'll take the absurd position that I value the 29 opposing coaches over 11 years than the statement of one coach who is known for being hypercritical of his teams own legendary players to a ridiculous level. :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]I know right ?

Who the hell thinks he can't play defense ? We just call it out for being overrated and we have supported this notion with coaches and NBA forums, youtube, etc... to formulate why we feel this way. But were hating on Kobe and his legacy.... SMH...[/QUOTE]

Do you think Kobe is the only legendary player who has been awarded all defensive awards that probably should have given to so name guy who wouldn't be in the league if it wasnt for his defense?

That's the point. It's not that Kobe may have been given awards that he didn't deserve. Its whether or not Kobe was given the benefit of the doubt on all defensive team[B] more so [/B] than other legendary players in NBA history.

Why isn't the all defensive team police investigating Larry Bird's defensive awards? Jerry West's? LeBron James'? Tim Duncan? Michael Jordan's?

Doc Rivers after the 2008 Finals:

"Kobe might be the best help defender since Pippen"

:pimp:

[QUOTE=DaPerceive]There are about three to four seasons I would say Kobe didn't deserve to make an all-defensive team. 2005-2006, 2006-2007, 2009-2010, and 2010-2011. Every other season I would say Kobe was worthy of that All-NBA Defensive spot.

A lot of people get carried away though..[/QUOTE]
See, people feel something like this while head coaches voted different.

So are these head coaches blind? Biased? Told to do so? Really feel that way?

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]Of course it does. Kobe's accolades are treated with a fine toothed comb. No other legend gets the same treatment. Do you see anybody really hyped about how many all defensive team awards Michael Jordan [I]really[/I] earned? When he won the DPOY did anybody bother to create some obscure formula like regularized adjusted +/- (RAPM) to find out that the best defensive player was probably some scrub big man who wouldnt even be in the league without his defensive abilities?

The idea of any player Kobe included winning awards based on his past reputation is even remotely controversial. The funny thing is you guys like to pretend this phenomena begins and ends with Kobe. Every single legend in this game has had a reputation that over inflated his perceived skills as their career progressed. Magic made the all star team for a year he didn't even play. He's won a Finals MVP on the basis of a single game.[/QUOTE]
Ether.

[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot][B]BREAKING NEWS! Tex Winter said Michael Jordan is the worst passer in NBA History!!![/B]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/8pUmr.png[/IMG]

:facepalm[/QUOTE]
Damn. Killing all those morons. :oldlol:

I see Bladers putting everyone in place dropping mad knowledge:bowdown:

Oh yeah his cheerleader Jacks be up in here too. Keep cheering

This Thread got Robbed

[QUOTE=Jacks3]Doc Rivers after the 2008 Finals:

"Kobe might be the best help defender since Pippen"

:pimp:[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEHbGDyTc2w[/url]

2:13 Mark:

"Kobe Bryant is single-handedly disrupting the Spurs offense"

Idiots. :oldlol:

2010 First Round:

Westbrook averages 55% FG through the first four games. The Lakers switch Bryant on to him and he completely shuts him down. Holds him to 35% in the next two games. :bowdown:

Kobe #1 SG in DWS from 05-10.

Nothing that anyone says here is changing anything.

No quotes or silly arguments are going to change the fact that Magic Johnson was superior to Kobe Bryant, and ISH collectively agrees. This debate is over.

Move on.

[QUOTE=SuperPippen]Nothing that anyone says here is changing anything.

No quotes or silly arguments are going to change the fact that Magic Johnson was superior to Kobe Bryant, and [B][SIZE="7"]ISH collectively agrees[/SIZE][/B]. This debate is over.

Move on.[/QUOTE]


Bullshit...if you poll every user and the thousands of people who view the thread...I bet Kobe get's past Magic....not to mention Wade past Cousy...easily.

this is 10 elitists fans who obviously have an agenda....



F@cking so Mad.......this is serious BIZNAZZ!!!


[COLOR="White"]I kid[/COLOR]


silly really

[QUOTE=kurt_rambis]the point is that they didn't have the best record in the league any of those years. playoffs don't matter in mvp voting

and in none of those years was kobe a clear mvp favorite

btw 2001 shaq was CLEARLY better, by any statistical or intangible measurement. if anything shaq was robbed of the mvp that year[/QUOTE]


again....they had the best record in the western Conference and won Championships.....and many MVP's have won without the best overall record.

and again...Kobe Bryant was the Lakers best overall player and widely regarded as the NBA's best allaround player....ESPN Shaq and Phil Jackson even said it....marginal stats hold little weight.

best allaround.....already a First team alldefensive player and the Lakers first option in Crunchtime....

Shaq never made an all defensive first team....and was the last option in crunchtime....no where near the allaround player Kobe was.



next

[QUOTE=DaPerceive]There are about three to four seasons I would say Kobe didn't deserve to make an all-defensive team. 2005-2006, 2006-2007, 2009-2010, and 2010-2011. Every other season I would say Kobe was worthy of that All-NBA Defensive spot.

A lot of people get carried away though..[/QUOTE]


:facepalm