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[QUOTE=TheMan]Alphawolf24 had easily the two dumbest remarks in this thread with these two doozies...
Kobe=MJ- come on, prime MJ vs old ass Kobe?:roll: prime MJ>>>prime Kobe
"Drexler is basically a worse Danny Granger".-:facepalm
Basketball isn't your fort
[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]
- Granger and Drexler are very sismilar...Both players can give you 20 - 25 PPG 4AST 4REB..I would IMO take Granger over Drexler as Granger can actually dribble without looking at the ground.
[/QUOTE]
:roll: :roll: :roll:
Please tell me you aren't being serious.
[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]this *****.....
- [B][U]Kobe is nearly identitical to Mj in all aspects of basketball...I was simply saying similar players similar roles...the Gap in marginal stats in minimal at best..[/U][/B]
get over it.
- Granger and Drexler are very sismilar...Both players can give you 20 - 25 PPG 4AST 4REB..I would IMO take Granger over Drexler as Granger can actually dribble without looking at the ground.
I watched Glyde's whole career.....played on some decent teams , Quit and won as a Ring Chaser....don't know why comparing him to Granger is bad?
next[/QUOTE]
:roll: :applause: :bowdown: :facepalm :rolleyes: :no:
[QUOTE=raptorfan_dr07]Early 90's Jordan is the greatest perimeter player to ever play the game. Only other wing players close to him are Magic and Bird. Those three are in a class of their own when it comes to perimeter players. Prime Kobe isn't even as good as Wizards Jordan. Wizards Jordan was a smarter scorer/player, better passer, better rebounder, and better team leader. He was still clutch as hell too.
Kobe is an overrated piece of sh*t who would be no better than Mitch Richmond if he played in the 90's. The p*ssy cries to the refs every time someone so much as looks at him. Physical defenses take him out of the game and shut him completely down as history has shown us(Pistons, Celtics, hell even OKC). He's nothing more than a low efficient chucker who forced his way out of a small market team on draft night to play with one of the most dominant players of all time. He was carried to three straight championships, and then tried his best to chuck his team out of another if it weren't for Pau Gasol, Ron Artest, and Derek Fisher making big plays against the Celtics in 2010.
Kobe does NOTHING better than Jordan, NOTHING. Oh wait, he does, he's better at chucking low percentage shots, quitting during playoff series', and alienating his teammates. He's a front runner who quits when his team is behind(see 06 vs Phoenix, 08 vs Boston, 11 vs Dallas).
Dream Team>>>>>>>>2012 Team. I'd love to see Jordan/Pippen taking turns manhandling Kobe and Lebron. I'd love to see a front line of Chandler/Griffin/Love trying to stop Ewing/Robinson/Malone/Barkley. CP3/Westbrook/DWill against Magic/Stock? Please.[/QUOTE]
WTF is this?
Haha, are you mimicing Jordan stans and making their trolling look comical and extremely obvious?
This has to be a joke. You can't insult me and then talk in absolutes about how Jordan is better than Kobe in every way possible. That's just untrue. Oh and Pippen isnt manhandling Lebron any time soon, neither would Jordan. Lebron isn't Toni f*cking Kukoc, he's a top 15 player of all time and a force to be reckoned with.
[quote]Kobe is nearly identitical to Mj in all aspects of basketball.[/quote]
Nope, not as strong, not as explosive, and didn't have the big hand jordan did.
[quote]
..I was simply saying similar players similar roles...the Gap in marginal stats in minimal at best..[/quote]
30.1 ppg > 25ppg by 5 points. Basketball games are won or lost on a single point. 5 point/per player/per game difference is quite big. In a 7 game series in a typical year, Jordan will outscore kobe by 35 points.
[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]Unless you are cloning Scottie than one of Durant or Lebron is going to score at will. And this is Kobe against Jordan we are talkin about. Kobe doesn't need to shit him down. Just to make him work/tire.[/QUOTE]
I really don't understand why all the extreme positions some people take on comparisons like these...
Both teams are talented and intelligent enough to safely say nobody is probably going to score "at will", and if any person COULD pull off something of that regard, it would be Jordan.
Common sense (or apparently not) tells me that the Dream Team is obviously the better team, but not by such an extreme margin that they have no chance to win a game. If playing a seven game series, I have no problem admitting that the 2012 team could pull of a V or two... Players of either teams caliber may have mismatches of certain types, but at the level all of these guys are playing at, its not such a wild discrepancy that one player will physically abuse the other an entire series...the talent is simply too high either way.
I think a much more reasonable way of comparing the two teams would be to break it down into pieces..and here is a quick breakdown from my perspective.
PG/SG.... Paul/Williams/Westbrook/Kobe/Harden for the 2012 are slightly quicker and possibly more athletic as a GROUP than the 1992 team...their strengths will be penetration/dish and fastbreak points..solid perimeter defense. With Kobe, they also can regularly play above the rim as well..
Magic/MJ/Stockton/Drexler..., they are bigger, stronger and smarter than their counterparts...of course they have Jordan who's athleticism is virtually unmatched at this point in his career and both he and Drexler have the ability to play above the rim, something the 2012 guards will not be able to hold a candle to (with the exception of Kobe and sometimes Westbrook). Size is a major advantage as well.. with the exception of Stockton, Jordan, Drex and Magic are all over 6'5.
Forwards 2012: James/Durant/Igouadala/Anthony...I think everybody is focused around the forward matchups... Lebron and Durant create one of the best and most diverse forward combinations ever. Lebron obviously has the ability to score on anybody at any given time when he wants it. and Durant is a taller, stronger version of Pippen, an athletic big man who can run the floor and shoot like a guard. They create matchup problems for literally anybody because both are extremely athletic, can play above the rim, are big/strong bodies and can shoot the ball from the perimeter (esp Durant). They would have their hands full defensively, especially from scorers Malone and Barkley who could chew up any of those guy inside 12 feet from the basket...
Forwards 1992: Malone/Barkley/Laetner/Pippen/Mullin: Ill start by saying Pippen, in my mind, is one of the top 5 defensive players in the history of the NBA as well as quite possibly the most versatile minus Lebron...he would matchup well against either player and while he is not as strong as Lebron or a tall as Durant, he IS quicker than either and smarter than both and I think the matchup on either player (I would personally put him on Durant) is spectacular.. not to mention he is excellent offensively. Malone/Barkley would not be able to guard any of their forwards well on the perimeter but with a team defense it would not be as imperative...as both players are capable (especially Malone) of playing excellent defense in the post. Mullin would keep all of the opposing teams forwards honest because he is a better pure shooter than anybody on either squad minus Larry Bird. Latener would get the water.
Offensively, the same matchup problems apply for the 2012 team...nobody is going to be able to effectively guard Malone or Barkley who were scoring machines at this point in their careers, esp in the post and I see a lot of fouls going to both sides from penetration...with the advantage in that regard going to the 1992 because of the superior interior defense from Robinson/Ewing.
Centers 2012: Love/Davis/Chandler: This is obviously the biggest mismatch position wise. Chandler is their best bet IMO... a tall athletic big man who can play solid defense...Love and Davis are strong and good rebounders but none of them have remotely the scoring ability of the 1992 squad nor the shot block ability, save Chandler gets wild and starts using that ridiculous leaping ability he used to have..
Centers 1992: Robinson/Ewing...Two of the top 10 Centers ever..both considered in their primes roughly, both were better scorers, at least equal rebounders if not better and easily better shot blockers/passers...If they wanted to pummel the post down low they could go with Ewing, if they wanted to score and use quickness, they could go with Robinson. I think Robinson especially would be effective because of his outstanding shot blocking ability combined with his quickness for altering the shots of the penetrating of the 2012 players like Lebron...
All in all, neither team OWNS the other.. at this level you rarely if ever get total domination like so many people type...however the Dream Team without question has the overall advantage and minus the athleticism and penetration ability of the 2012 squad, all other advantages including coaching and chemistry point to the 1992 squad.
I would say in a series of 7... I would go either 4-1 or MAYBE 4-2 with the Dream Team winning by an average of 8-10 points....
dream team ain't gonna lose to a team who beats teams like argentina by 6. it really will be a bad miss match. not only the dream team has the chemistry, but they have the size. 12 team is talented, but they will just get worked. just watch how spain will make all of us sweat.
[QUOTE=Linspired]dream team ain't gonna lose to a team who beats teams like argentina by 6. it really will be a bad miss match. not only the dream team has the chemistry, but they have the size. 12 team is talented, but they will just get worked. just watch how spain will make all of us sweat.[/QUOTE]
extreme positions like these don't do much for credibility...just sayin
[QUOTE=StarJordan]Nope, not as strong, not as explosive, and didn't have the big hand jordan did.
30.1 ppg > 25ppg by 5 points. Basketball games are won or lost on a single point. 5 point/per player/per game difference is quite big. In a 7 game series in a typical year, Jordan will outscore kobe by 35 points.[/QUOTE]
Why not take a good 12 year stretch to compare instead of the entire careers? Kobe started early.
I don't know why people are even talking about this. Try to beat Spain first then talk about how you compare to older teams.
[QUOTE=Dave_520]extreme positions like these don't do much for credibility...just sayin[/QUOTE]
what's so extreme about what i just said? this team is one bad shooting night from not winning the gold.
game of basketball is all about who's the better TEAM. 92 is a superior TEAM.
[QUOTE=RazorBaLade]Why not take a good 12 year stretch to compare instead of the entire careers? Kobe started early.[/QUOTE]
Kobe's first few years in the league really drive down his averages. It's somewhat unfortunate really as it distorts peoples perception of his overall level of play. Though I guess in some sense you could say that for most players, usually it's their veteran years that drag down their averages (which Kobe's still might).
The most accurate way of doing a statistical comparison in my opinion would probably be to use that year in particular to approximate what those players were giving you at the time, that is 1992 Jordan and 2012 Kobe. You could even use a 2-3 year span if you want a larger sample size.
How Kobe played as an 18 year old kid, or how Jordan played as a 40 year old man has little relation to what their most likely to give you in this particular match up, and both of those things, irrelevantly, average into their overall career numbers.
More realistically your looking at something like
Jordan - 31 ppg 6.5 reb 6 ast 2.6 stl 1 blk on 52/31/84
Kobe - 27 ppg 5.0 reb 5 ast 1.3 stl .2 blk on 44/32/83
for a prime Jordan vs past prime Kobe
Statistically, there is a slight gap, though it's not night and day. I think it's really pretty interesting just how similar their numbers actually are. Kobe really is just like a scaled down version of Jordan, and this is prime Jordan vs past prime Kobe were comparing(the numbers would be even more similar were we to compare prime vs. prime).
Jordan would have a pretty huge edge defensively, but even at 33 years old Kobe is still a competent defender in his own right.
[QUOTE=DatAsh]Kobe's first few years in the league really drive down his averages. It's somewhat unfortunate really as it distorts peoples perception of his overall level of play. Though I guess in some sense you could say that for most players, usually it's their veteran years that drag down their averages (which Kobe's still might).
The most accurate way of doing a statistical comparison in my opinion would probably be to use that year in particular to approximate what those players were giving you at the time, that is 1992 Jordan and 2012 Kobe. You could even use a 2-3 year span if you want a larger sample size.
How Kobe played as an 18 year old kid, or how Jordan played as a 40 year old man has little relation to what their most likely to give you in this particular match up, and both of those things, irrelevantly, average into their overall career numbers.
More realistically your looking at something like
Jordan - 31 ppg 6.5 reb 6 ast 2.6 stl 1 blk on 52/31/84
Kobe - 27 ppg 5.0 reb 5 ast 1.3 stl .2 blk on 44/32/83
for a prime Jordan vs past prime Kobe
Statistically, there is a slight gap, though it's not night and day. I think it's really pretty interesting just how similar their numbers actually are. Kobe really is just like a scaled down version of Jordan, and this is prime Jordan vs past prime Kobe were comparing(the numbers would be even more similar were we to compare prime vs. prime).
Jordan would have a pretty huge edge defensively, but even at 33 years old Kobe is still a competent defender in his own right.[/QUOTE]
Are you serious??? :biggums:
31 ppg at 52% >>>>>>>>> 27 ppg at 44%
2.6 spg >>>>>>>>> 1.3 spg
1 bpg >>>>>>>> .2 bpg
The **** are you smoking son?? :facepalm
'92 Jordan would take a dump all over '12 Kobe. How anyone thinks otherwise is amazing to me. This isn't '06-'09 Kobe, where he'd at least have a fighting chance.
[QUOTE=DatAsh]
Jordan - 31 ppg 6.5 reb 6 ast 2.6 stl 1 blk on 52/31/84
Kobe - 27 ppg 5.0 reb 5 ast 1.3 stl .2 blk on 44/32/83
for a prime Jordan vs past prime Kobe
Statistically, there is a slight gap, though it's not night and day. I think it's really pretty interesting just how similar their numbers actually are. Kobe really is just like a scaled down version of Jordan, and this is prime Jordan vs past prime Kobe were comparing(the numbers would be even more similar were we to compare prime vs. prime).
Jordan would have a pretty huge edge defensively, but even at 33 years old Kobe is still a competent defender in his own right.[/QUOTE]
There is a huge efficiency gap between 31 and 27 points at a 8% difference field goal percentage. HUGE.
Since Kobe started his career with Shaq( and took 3-4 years to become a top scorer), if we're comparing apple to apple circumstances with Jordan the best thing to do is to look at his post Shaq years, when he was the undisputed number one option. He has two seasons post Shaq where he averaged 35 and 31 points a game. Aside from those two seasons, he's basically been a 27-28 ppg scorer.
In Jordan's Bulls playing days, he didn't dip under 30 ppg until the 96-97 season, 29.6 at age 34( asides from his second injury-plagued year when he averaged 22). Comparing Jordan from 86 to 98, and Kobe from 2004-2012, would give the most accurate comparison, as that's the closest we'd get to apples to apples. This also eliminates each guys 'worst' seasons, so it's fair to both sides.
BTW for anybody thinking theres any comparison the 1992 team has the best frontcourt of all time in:
D.Robinson/K.Malone/Barkley
the best backcourt of all time in: Magic/Jordan/Drexler
and the most athletic fastbreaking wings of all time in Jordan/Pippen/Magic/Drexler
Anybody thinking Durant/Lebron would be better on the fastbreak, which along with athleticism is probably the only advantage they MIGHT have, and even that would be a stretch, needs to go watch clips of Magic right now.
Oh yea and they also have the best defensive backcourt of all time in Pippen/Jordan.
[QUOTE=BlueandGold]BTW for anybody thinking theres any comparison the 1992 team has the best frontcourt of all time in:
D.Robinson/K.Malone/Barkley
the best backcourt of all time in: Magic/Jordan/Drexler
and the most athletic fastbreaking wings of all time in Jordan/Pippen/Magic/Drexler
Anybody thinking Durant/Lebron would be better on the fastbreak, which along with athleticism is probably the only advantage they MIGHT have, and even that would be a stretch, needs to go watch clips of Magic right now.
Oh yea and they also have the best defensive backcourt of all time in Pippen/Jordan.[/QUOTE]
i laugh at people even thinking magic some sort of a fat slob. it's funny how people think 32 year old magic was an old fat hasbeen player.
he definitely wasn't. he was brilliant in that 92 summer. magic could run and lead a fast break better than anybody else. there is no defense for court vision, innate ability to create an offense, and accurate no look pass. magic's rational randomness was something special. 92 magic still had it.
[QUOTE=Dragonyeuw]There is a huge efficiency gap between 31 and 27 points at a 8% difference field goal percentage. HUGE.
Since Kobe started his career with Shaq( and took 3-4 years to become a top scorer), if we're comparing apple to apple circumstances with Jordan the best thing to do is to look at his post Shaq years, when he was the undisputed number one option. He has two seasons post Shaq where he averaged 35 and 31 points a game. Aside from those two seasons, he's basically been a 27-28 ppg scorer.
In Jordan's Bulls playing days, he didn't dip under 30 ppg until the 96-97 season, 29.6 at age 34( asides from his second injury-plagued year when he averaged 22). Comparing Jordan from 86 to 98, and Kobe from 2004-2012, would give the most accurate comparison, as that's the closest we'd get to apples to apples. This also eliminates each guys 'worst' seasons, so it's fair to both sides.[/QUOTE]
- well said....and that's exactly what I was talking about.
- Your post makes 100% sense......
Jordan stans - let's use multiple seasons when teemage Kobe was playing 10 - 15 minutes a game:facepalm
[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]- well said....and that's exactly what I was talking about.
- Your post makes 100% sense......
Jordan stans - let's use multiple seasons when teemage Kobe was playing 10 - 15 minutes a game:facepalm[/QUOTE]
Yep, it's why I just go by Per 36 minutes or Per 48 minutes.
[QUOTE=GOBB][B]There is a gap between 29yr old MJ and 34yr old Kobe[/B]. Dream Team was full of cerebral players where the competition level was unreal. And documented. Todays players are more friendly with one another. Who complained about hard fouls on the Dream Team? I know some cried over D.Cousins hard fouling.
The size of the Dream Team trumps them so much. Come down the lane Bron.[/QUOTE]
Hell there is a gap btw 35 yrs old MJ >>>> & 29 yrs old Kobe.
29 yrs old Kobe = consolation MVP. Lost FMVP to Pierce.
35 yrs old MJ = NBA Reg Sea MVP + FMVP hitting championship winner over Russell.
Case closed.
[B]Kobe & MJ should never ever be mentioned in same sentence. Kobe is NOT Top 10. MJ is Guaranteed Top 3 GOATs to ever play the game[/B].
[QUOTE=Linspired]i laugh at people even thinking magic some sort of a fat slob. it's funny how people think 32 year old magic was an old fat hasbeen player.
he definitely wasn't. he was brilliant in that 92 summer. magic could run and lead a fast break better than anybody else. there is no defense for court vision, innate ability to create an offense, and accurate no look pass. magic's rational randomness was something special. 92 magic still had it.[/QUOTE]
Yea it's funny how people get forgotten over such short of a time :facepalm at people forgetting that Magic was a couple of months (about 6-8 months) removed from his 1st retirement.
[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]this *****.....
- Kobe is nearly identitical to Mj in all aspects of basketball...I was simply saying similar players similar roles...the Gap in marginal stats in minimal at best..
get over it.
- Granger and Drexler are very sismilar...Both players can give you 20 - 25 PPG 4AST 4REB..I would IMO take Granger over Drexler as Granger can actually dribble without looking at the ground.
I watched Glyde's whole career.....played on some decent teams , Quit and won as a Ring Chaser....don't know why comparing him to Granger is bad?
next[/QUOTE]
:oldlol:
this guy is just clueless
[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]- well said....and that's exactly what I was talking about.
- Your post makes 100% sense......
Jordan stans - let's use multiple seasons when teemage Kobe was playing 10 - 15 minutes a game:facepalm[/QUOTE]
And if you take Jordan's and Kobe's best years and compare them, MJ still bests Kobe by a nice margin...go ahead and look it up:applause:
Are we gonna act like the 92 Team wouldn't take a dump on Argentina and Spain:oldlol:
Current team barely beat Argentina by 2 treys:roll:
Of course the dream team can lose. Has no one ever seen a inferior team beat a better team before. Not like Kobe said they would in a playoff series.
Players today are just more skillful. There's a whole lot of players in the NBA that plays like MJ. Back then he was like the only of his kind.
[QUOTE=amfirst]Of course the dream team can lose. Has no one ever seen a inferior team beat a better team before. Not like Kobe said they would in a playoff series.
[b]Players today are just more skillful. There's a whole lot of players in the NBA that plays like MJ. Back then he was like the only of his kind.[/b][/QUOTE]
Wrong, players nowadays are more athletic as a whole (and not by much), fundamentally (skills) they are weaker.
I don't even know what you mean by playing like Jordan, I hope you don't mean slam dunks. Name me the players you think play "like Jordan":facepalm
[QUOTE=TheMan]Wrong, players nowadays are more athletic as a whole (and not by much), fundamentally (skills) they are weaker.
Name me the players you think play "like Jordan":facepalm[/QUOTE]
Tony Allen. :lol
[QUOTE=FKAri]Tony Allen. :lol[/QUOTE]
:lol
That was actually funny.
[QUOTE=FKAri]Tony Allen. :lol[/QUOTE]
lol
I remember when that was a saying here...poor man's Tony Allen.
kids today:oldlol:
[QUOTE=amfirst]Of course the dream team can lose. Has no one ever seen a inferior team beat a better team before. Not like Kobe said they would in a playoff series.
[B]Players today are just more skillful.[/B] There's a whole lot of players in the NBA that plays like MJ. Back then he was like the only of his kind.[/QUOTE]
haha
good joke.
Players today are just more bulked up & toned. Thats all. I wouldn't even call them a better athletes overall than '80s & '90s athletes.
I still see more explosiveness in Kemp & dominique & Shaq like bodies of '80s & '90s than Today's, Howard & Blake griffins.
Those '80s & '90s players were more explosive & attacked the rim viciously.
Today's well toned muscular physique men cannot.
think about this.
Harold Miner exploded on the rim much better than Kobe Bryant ever did when dunking.
Miner is only 6'2". Kobe is like 6'6". both had small hand size. so fair comparison.
[QUOTE=gengiskhan]haha
good joke.
Players today are just more bulked up & toned. Thats all. I wouldn't even call them a better athletes overall than '80s & '90s athletes.
I still see more explosiveness in Kemp & dominique & Shaq like bodies of '80s & '90s than Today's, Howard & Blake griffins.
Those '80s & '90s players were more explosive & attacked the rim viciously.
Today's well toned muscular physique men cannot.
think about this.
Harold Miner exploded on the rim much better than Kobe Bryant ever did when dunking.
Miner is only 6'2". Kobe is like 6'6". both had small hand size. so fair comparison.[/QUOTE]
Robert Pack
Kids think the whole Derrick Rose and Russell Westbrook small guy playing above the rim is new. That also happened back then.