"Pippen was the best player in the world in 93, 94, 95" - Dennis Rodman

[QUOTE=Axe;14448846]In 1991 finals, he averaged more ppg numbers than your hero kobe did in 2000.[/QUOTE]


You're comparing peak vs trough

not exactly fair

if we compare peak vs peak, we see that about 500 guys can match pippen's peak of 22/5 with weak efficiency and 2nd round loss - Hughes did it in 2005

Otoh, not many guys can match kobe's peak, which blows Pippen's 91' peak out of the water... 20 ppg and no clutch?.... how does that compare to kobe

[QUOTE=3ba11;14448847]You're comparing peak vs trough

not exactly fair

if we compare peak vs peak, we see that about 500 guys can match pippen's peak of 22/5 with weak efficiency and 2nd round loss - Hughes did it in 2005[/QUOTE]

Was Hughes 3rd in MVP voting in 2005?

[QUOTE=SaintzFury13;14449237]Was Hughes 3rd in MVP voting in 2005?[/QUOTE]


Hughes didn't play for the 94' Bulls and 3-peat, otherwise he would've been 3rd in 94' too - anyone that can get 22/5 would've won in the triangle with the 3-peat system - it's a low bar and Hughes' production and 2-way performance was on the same caliber as Pippen's (22/6/5 and 1st team defense)... and Hughes made the 2nd Round just like Pippen..

btw, lots of guys placed #3 in MVP voting like Blake Griffin or Marc Gasol - it's based on the surprise factor not the best player, and the 94' bulls had goat surprise factor.. No one even knew Pippen was 3rd because he was never mentioned as a candidate and no one thought he was - only when you look it up 30 years later do you see "oh look, pippen happened to accumulate 3rd place votes" (because he was never mentioned at the time as a candidate or thought of as one, so he wasn't a candidate).

Accept facts - Pippen's prime caliber was a low bar, so any bum like Robert Horry can reach it (18/10 on 55% in the 95' Finals), or bums like JR Smith (18/8 on 70% TS in 15' ECF), or the aforementioned Hughes.. it's just a low bar - Jeff Green reached it a few times too... everyone did

It's sad because the top 75 is coming up, which is reserved for history's towering performers like 11' Dirk or 21' Giannis... How the hell does Pippen's low-producing, defensive role player caliber belong?

[img]https://i.postimg.cc/y8ZDM6h0/pipSavedJordan.png[/img]

It's over now 3ball. Rest easy.

[QUOTE=3ba11;14448847]You're comparing peak vs trough

not exactly fair

if we compare peak vs peak, we see that about 500 guys can match pippen's peak of 22/5 with weak efficiency and 2nd round loss - Hughes did it in 2005

Otoh, not many guys can match kobe's peak, which blows Pippen's 91' peak out of the water... 20 ppg and no clutch?.... how does that compare to kobe[/QUOTE]
Kobe averaged only almost 16ppg in the 2000 finals. Don't deflect from this piece of truth.

[QUOTE=Axe;14449457]Kobe averaged only almost 16ppg in the 2000 finals. Don't deflect from this piece of truth.[/QUOTE]


Pippen did that in 2 Finals

Pippen averaged 19.0 on 42% for 6 Finals - you wouldn't think someone could go 6-0 against Finals teams with that kind of crap help

[QUOTE=3ba11;14449466]Pippen did that in 2 Finals

Pippen averaged 19.0 on 42% for 6 Finals - you wouldn't think someone could go 6-0 against Finals teams with that kind of crap help[/QUOTE]
Baloney

[QUOTE=3ba11;14449466]Pippen did that in 2 Finals

Pippen averaged 19.0 on 42% for 6 Finals - you wouldn't think someone could go 6-0 against Finals teams with that kind of crap help[/QUOTE]

What if you were going up against two all time worst #2 options in Finals history

10.7 Hornacek and 14.0 ppg Stockton

[QUOTE=TheCorporation;14449491]
10.7 Hornacek and 14.0 ppg Stockton[/QUOTE]


those guys ragdolled shaq/kobe and duncan/popovich but lost to mj

and stockton clearly outplayed pippen in the 97' Finals, while scoring like jordan in the clutch - pippen had a worst-ever 4 clutch points in the 97' Finals (less than ostertag), while stockton had nearly as many as mj

I dunno I'm gonna have to go with

93 - MJ
94 - Hakeem
95 - Hakeem

but Pip was definitely top 5 in 94 and top 10 in 93 and 95

[QUOTE=3ba11;14449493]those guys ragdolled shaq/kobe and duncan/popovich but lost to mj

and stockton clearly outplayed pippen in the 97' Finals, while scoring like jordan in the clutch - pippen had a worst-ever 4 clutch points in the 97' Finals (less than ostertag), while stockton had nearly as many as mj[/QUOTE]
Pip didn't have to score for his teammates to feel his impact. Poor thing you still can't realize this.

A couple of things here... People OFTEN confuse the best all around player WITH BEING the best player. At times, both things can be true. For example, in the case of MJ and Bron. When it comes to Kareem at his best., he was LEGIT the best player in the league and best all around center. By all around, I'm talking who combines scoring, passing, defense,and rebounding the best for their position. Now many think the best player is either KD or Giannis. While Giannis is the better ALL AROUND PLAYER than KD, KD is such a great and skilled scorer that it SUPERCEDES Giannis' all around ability. PLUS KD is a very good all around player to boot.

Once MJ left for baseball, Pip INDEED was the best ALL AROUND perimeter player in the world. He combined scoring, passing, defense,and rebounding BETTER than any other perimeter player at that time. But Pip WASN'T CLOSE to being the best player on the planet. That was Hakeem. And for that matter Barkley, Shaq,Drexler,Mailman,Robinson,and Ewing were all better players than Pip in this time period. So ONCE AGAIN,the best ALL AROUND PLAYER isn't ALWAYS the best player. Pip (when MJ left for baseball) is a great example of the difference!

[QUOTE=3ba11;14448847][B]You're comparing peak vs trough

not exactly fair[/B]

if we compare peak vs peak, we see that about 500 guys can match pippen's peak of 22/5 with weak efficiency and 2nd round loss - Hughes did it in 2005

Otoh, not many guys can match kobe's peak, which blows Pippen's 91' peak out of the water... 20 ppg and no clutch?.... how does that compare to kobe[/QUOTE]

You say that, but you compare rookie Pippen to prime players all the time. Like prime Adrian Dantley, and prime Larry Nance.

[QUOTE=97 bulls;14449766]You say that, but you compare rookie Pippen to prime players all the time. Like prime Adrian Dantley, and prime Larry Nance.[/QUOTE]


People blame Jordan for losing from 88-90' so I have to bring up the real culprit - Pippen - who was vastly inferior to everyone during those years... the higher production rate of veterans like Mo Williams or Larry Hughes would've been more than enough to win in those years.

[QUOTE=3ba11;14449769]People blame Jordan for losing from 88-90' so I have to bring up the real culprit - Pippen - who was vastly inferior to everyone during those years... the higher production rate of veterans like Mo Williams or Larry Hughes would've been more than enough to win in those years.[/QUOTE]
Bro. It doesn't matter why you did it. You did it. Then proceeded to say you shouldn't compare rookies and 2ns and 3rd year players to players in their primes.

Anyone have an answer for OP?

[QUOTE=bizil;14449740]A couple of things here... People OFTEN confuse the best all around player WITH BEING the best player. At times, both things can be true. For example, in the case of MJ and Bron. When it comes to Kareem at his best., he was LEGIT the best player in the league and best all around center. By all around, I'm talking who combines scoring, passing, defense,and rebounding the best for their position. Now many think the best player is either KD or Giannis. While Giannis is the better ALL AROUND PLAYER than KD, KD is such a great and skilled scorer that it SUPERCEDES Giannis' all around ability. PLUS KD is a very good all around player to boot.

Once MJ left for baseball, Pip INDEED was the best ALL AROUND perimeter player in the world. He combined scoring, passing, defense,and rebounding BETTER than any other perimeter player at that time. But Pip WASN'T CLOSE to being the best player on the planet. That was Hakeem. And for that matter Barkley, Shaq,Drexler,Mailman,Robinson,and Ewing were all better players than Pip in this time period. So ONCE AGAIN,the best ALL AROUND PLAYER isn't ALWAYS the best player. Pip (when MJ left for baseball) is a great example of the difference![/QUOTE]

This