Draft day, free agency, training camp, pre season...

[QUOTE]Eric Walden: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Mike Conley, talking about his second season with the Jazz, said: “You get the same core, coaching, schemes, systems, but you get another year under the belt for me, for Bogey. … We can be even better.[/URL] … I’m just excited for everyone to be back and be healthy.”
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/tribjazz"]Twitter tribjazz[/URL]

[/QUOTE] Better than a 1st round exit!



[QUOTE]Eric Walden: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Mike Conley, addressing Donovan Mitchell’s comments about needing to go beyond the first round, said: “It’s just about staying resilient. … You gotta take the bumps and the bruises.”[/URL] Said losing Gm7 at the buzzer is the “kind of stuff that sticks with you, it makes you better.”
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/tribjazz"]Twitter tribjazz[/URL]




[IMG]https://*********.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/92/2020/11/i_92_af_cb_shaquille-harrison.png?w=190[/IMG]Ben Anderson: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Quin Snyder on Shaq Harrison: “He jumps out at you, that he can defend and defend the ball.[/URL] He’s got physicality.”
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/BensHoops"]Twitter BensHoops[/URL]




Sarah Todd: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Quin Snyder said that Shaquille Harrison is “nursing a broken hand.”[/URL] But made it sound like he’ll be able to be a part of practice soon.
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/NBASarah"]Twitter NBASarah[/URL]



[/QUOTE]

[url]https://fansided.com/2020/12/10/25-under-25-2020-donovan-mitchell-utah-jazz-6/[/url]

[QUOTE]He went off for 36 points, 5 rebounds and 5 assists per game for the series, including two f50-pieces, and left an indelible image of how much players can care with him laying on the court, deflated after a Game 7 loss, with chin on arms and tears in his faraway eyes. We all realized the leader Mitchell is, despite his youth in the NBA, with his “…this is just the beginning…” remarks following that literal heartbreaker. We forget that Donovan Mitchell has been performing for three seasons now, driving the Utah Jazz to the playoffs in each one, and doing it with remarkable consistency and flair.


[/QUOTE]

consistent leader?

[QUOTE]There was no sophomore slump, even though Donovan Mitchell started his second year out slowly and now with the full attention of opposing coaching staffs, as he inched up most of his season averages and was 15th in the NBA in scoring. This past campaign saw him move up as the league’s 13th-highest scorer, as well as log the tenth most minutes to go along with the All-Star nod and [URL="https://fansided.com/2020/08/31/donovan-mitchell-jamal-murray-game-6-postgame-reactions-whole-mood/"]historic playoff duel participant.[/URL]


[/QUOTE]

started every year slowly

[QUOTE][h=2]Donovan Mitchell has established himself as one of the most potent two-way players in the NBA[/h]

[/QUOTE]

don't you have play D to be a two way player?

[url]https://kslsports.com/448348/jazz-assimilating-new-coaches-shaq-harrison/[/url]

[QUOTE]The Jazz entered training camp with an extra roster spot open in case they wanted to add an additional body. On Wednesday, the [URL="https://kslsports.com/448263/jazz-sign-guard-shaquille-harrison/"]Jazz signed[/URL] former Chicago Bulls guard Shaq Harrison to a one year, minimum contract.


[/QUOTE]

they have several spots

[url]https://www.deseret.com/sports/2020/12/10/22166539/utah-jazz-news-donovan-mitchell-nba[/url]

[QUOTE]First- and second-round playoff exits just aren’t going to cut it anymore. Mitchell wants to win a championship. So do the rest of his Utah Jazz teammates. Of course they do. And they also realize that in the grand scheme of things they won’t have many opportunities at that kind of glory.


[/QUOTE]

better go elsewhere

[QUOTE]Ben Anderson: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Shaq Harrison on his timetable for a debut for the @UtahJazz. “I’m very close, My timetable isn’t for sure when I’m playing, but as of right now, I’m working out without my cast[/URL] and it’s been like that for three days.”
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/BensHoops"]Twitter BensHoops[/URL]



[/QUOTE]

not weeks! See how long it takes Snyder to fall in love with him and reduce the minutes of some others

Ben Anderson: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Shaq Harrison said he broke his hand guarding James Harden in the offseason[/URL].
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/BensHoops"]Twitter BensHoops[/URL]


Eric Walden: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Shaquille Harrison, on his broken hand: “I was in Los Angeles playing a pick-up game at Mamba Sports Academy. James Harden was guarding me … my hand somehow got bent back. … Right now, I’m very close. My timetable isn’t for sure. Working out without my cast for 3 days now.”[/URL]
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/tribjazz"]Twitter tribjazz[/URL]



Tony Jones: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Harrison is now working out without the cast[/URL]
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/Tjonesonthenba"]Twitter Tjonesonthenba[/URL]



Tony Jones: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Harrison said he had been talking to the Jazz for awhile. He said the interest was mutual. Said he wanted the jazz as much as they wanted him[/URL]
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/Tjonesonthenba"]Twitter Tjonesonthenba[/URL]



Eric Walden: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Shaquille Harrison, on joining the Jazz: “We’ve been talking for awhile, we had some interest, felt like they’d be a great fit with the way I play.”[/URL]
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/tribjazz"]Twitter tribjazz[/URL]

Eric Walden: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Joe Ingles, on the familiarity of the team: “Quin will always teach, but there will be a lot less teaching because we know the way we want to play. … S—, there’s more changes to the coaching staff this year than there is with the roster.”[/URL]
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/tribjazz"]Twitter tribjazz[/URL]

unfortunately

[url]https://kslsports.com/448392/shaq-harrison-broke-hand-being-defended-by-james-harden/[/url]

[QUOTE]The guard averages an impressive 1.1 steals per game during his three-year career, despite playing just 16.5 minutes per night.


[/QUOTE]

hopefully he doesn't get them constantly gambling like the Matador

[url]https://kslsports.com/448375/report-stars-opt-into-rumored-g-league-bubble/[/url]

[QUOTE]Sources close to the Jazz have told KSL Sports the organization has had exploratory conversations about building a dedicated arena for the minor league team.


[/QUOTE]

cool. Hopefully it will be a real minor league sooner than later

[QUOTE]The Stars had the best record (30-12) in the G League Western Conference before play was [URL="https://kslsports.com/435606/nba-g-league-cancels-remainder-of-2019-20-season/?fbclid=IwAR05_XU9X_I3U-ohrTV3Qrd480vaEPVO_S8FLyEMome4sFBvsxc5vmVQNVw"]suspended[/URL] last March.

[/QUOTE]

was too bad they didn't get to pay for a championship. Could have quite a bit of that team back including their all gleaguer, Bluiett, Oni, Morgan, Goss the two draftees and other Exhibit 10 guys. I imagine they still have Wright Forman's rights as well? Maybe Mudiay wll have to play there as well?

[url]https://saltcityhoops.com/dm-other-elite-guards-leap/[/url]

[QUOTE]Judging by year three numbers, you could reasonably project Mitchell to be an elite guard in the league — if you don’t believe he is one already.

[/QUOTE]

by no metric is he elite by today's standards. The analytics don't paint as bright of a picture as everyone else does. High usage/low efficency

[QUOTE]Now, there’s reason to believe Mitchell could make a bigger leap than that. While his role, minutes, and teammates will be largely the same, he did show something in the Denver series. If his off-the-bounce three and foul drawing improve, his scoring numbers could climb significantly higher. Swapping floaters for more threes and free throws would also help his efficiency.


[/QUOTE]

the fact that it happened in the bubble makes it a lot less meaningful

[QUOTE]Among these compared players, assist changes seemed to rely more on role changes than player improvement. Rebounds are a similar story. With Mike Conley returning (and perhaps healthier than he was in 2019-20 when he missed 25 games), I wouldn’t expect Mitchell to see a bump in his assist numbers yet. We’ll see what happens if Conley eventually moves on and the Jazz start to use Mitchell more as a starting point guard.


[/QUOTE]

Conley is the one playing off the ball. Plenty of opportunity for him to increase his assist numbers

[QUOTE]These numbers don’t take defense into account. Mitchell has regressed a bit. He has the tools to be better, but I’m not holding out for a big jump here—it’s very hard to be an above-average defense player while being the primary offensive option, especially as a small guard.


[/QUOTE]

Excuses! He needs to step up at that end regardless. They have plenty of offense. The D has to get better and him especially if your going to continue hyping him

[QUOTE]Your point that more Cs will be 3 point shooters moving forward is a good, solid point! IDK if there will be enough 5-out teams to make Rudy’s interior D significantly less valuable in a few years than it is now. But it’s at least a thing JZ and DL will need to think thru with any Rudy extension talk.
*(Which was also the point: Jokic is a below-average 3point shooter who operates best at the elbow/in the paint. We took away his strength to force him/Den to beat us with something that isn’t his strength. And Jokic responded by being an elite 3-point shooter in the playoffs. Props to him! But that was a smart plan…one that almost led to a playoff sweep for us.)

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/l3uddyh011y"]l3uddyh011y[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534345243"]Dec 11, 2020 | 10:11 AM[/URL]
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teams appear to be getting bigger again if anything

[QUOTE]I also wonder if the contract won’t have incentives built in. Something like 5 years at 150 but if you are an all star or DPOY then you get a bonus of say 3-5 million that year.
That makes sure he performs to get that added value

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/brianH85"]brianH85[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534345773"]Dec 11, 2020 | 10:27 AM[/URL]
[/QUOTE]

that's what they should be looking at. He should get more than Mitchell or any other team can offer. Put in bonuses to get the deal done if need be

[QUOTE] I think Gobert is not as good in the playoffs and as the jazz are now at probable contenders stage of things, this is something to really consider.
That said, I think the Jazz will pay him what ever he wants. With Gobert and Mitchell the jazz are potential contenders, though probably flawed because of the limits to Gobert’s game, but without Gobert, they are not in any way contenders. They have been working at this since they drafted Hayward 10 something years ago, and have gradually been climbing the mountain and are now within sight of the summit. If they don’t sign Gobert they slide half way down the mountain again. Both Gobert and Mitchell tuning out to be elite was lucky. There’s no guarantee that hitting on late draft picks will happen again, and its really unlikely the jazz will get a high pick for a long time.
So I think they will give into Gobert and try to make it work. Odds are favorable they will be (flawed) contenders for 4-5 years. If they get rid of Gobert, the odds they will be contenders anytime over the next ten years go way down.
One thing to remember is Conley comes off the books next year and opens up a big salary hole. Also, probably shouldn’t have signed Ingles for so much. Also, a good team built around Mitchell (but no Gobert) might be attractive to another top 10 free agent.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/BoufantPuffydoo"]BoufantPuffydoo[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534351377"]Dec 11, 2020 | 12:51 PM[/URL]
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they aren't a contender and they are a lottery team without Rudy. They are flawed because Mitchell plays one end ineffeciently. How would they get another free agent? Sign and trade for Clarkson?

[QUOTE]Major Luxury tax issues next season!

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/AdMan59"]AdMan59[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534352299"]Dec 11, 2020 | 1:16 PM[/URL]
[/QUOTE]

which is why it's stupid to pay it this year for this team


[QUOTE][B]Am I the only one that see the limits to DM's game as more obvious than the limits to Gobert's game?[/B]


Every player has limitations. People criticize Rudy because he can’t do what Mitchell does, but nobody criticizes Mitchell for not being able to do what Rudy does.
They are both very good players, and perfectly complimentary. Mitchell needs a teammate exactly like Gobert, and Gobert needs a teammate exactly like Mitchell.
Yeah, it would be nice if Rudy could develop a 10-ft jumper and improve his passing. It would also be nice if Mitchell could improve his shot selection, efficiency, defense, and be a more willing passer.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Kira%20Argonova"]Kira Argonova[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534354713"]Dec 11, 2020 | 2:39 PM[/URL]
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someone gets it. Without Rudy they suck. Without Mitchell they are still competitive

[QUOTE]Rudy is at the top defensively while just average on the offensive end.
The value from the NBA would be around $30M at best for Rudy IMO.
For the Jazz though he is worth more.
Being eligible for the Supermax does not mean being worth the supermax. Rudy is a limited player, but very important to the Jazz.
To me he is just like Donovan who received a "Max" (Rookie@25%) deal. Given Rudy’s deal at the max level would be at 30%, which is 5% more than DM. Rudy at the Max would be $190M/5yrs plus any incentives.
I still think that’s too much for the center position put not sure if the Jazz can get away any cheaper.
That’s paying Rudy $43M in his 5th year. That seems obscene.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/AdMan59"]AdMan59[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534351640"]Dec 11, 2020 | 12:58 PM[/URL]
[/QUOTE]

1 of the best offensive players in the game

[QUOTE]Rudy might not be the most [I]skilled offensive player on the team, but he is easily the most [I]valuable offensive player on the team.[/I][/I]

[I][I]Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Kira%20Argonova"]Kira Argonova[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534355048"]Dec 11, 2020 | 2:54 PM[/URL][/I][/I]
[/QUOTE]

this guy gets it!

[QUOTE][B]If he isn’t interested in a much cheaper contract[/B]


Deal him away. I honestly don’t like his attitude anyways. He sulks too much.
We have Favors who can start at Center. Azubuike who is our future Center in reserve.
Plus we should be able to pull in a ton of assets in a trade. Young players and draft picks.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Matt_Grbac"]Matt_Grbac[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534341628"]Dec 11, 2020 | 8:34 AM[/URL]

[/QUOTE]

Tanking! They aren't getting much in a trade. They aren't winning with Favors

[QUOTE]Rudy might be miffed since Mitchell’s deal is 5/163 (maybe 5/195), and he might be insisting on at least the low end of Donovan’s contract, but even a 5/150 would still show over a quarter-billion dollar total investment by the Jazz over Rudy’s two long-term contracts, so hopefully Gobert recognizes both the enormity of that financial commitment and the competitive repercussions of insisting on more.
I’m not optimistic though. I see this being contentious past the deadline. I guess we’ll see.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Korumbian"]Korumbian[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534341960"]Dec 11, 2020 | 8:45 AM[/URL]
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Why should he consider taking less than a guy that has yet to do what Rudy did 6 years ago? Rudy already took a discount on his last contract despite doing a lot more than Mitchell has to get his potential super max

[QUOTE]The pick of Azubuike and Favors’ three year deal (together) only make sense to me if the Jazz are planning for Rudy’s potential departure.
The moves tell me that they do not plan to offer the full supermax, and that they believe Rudy may demand more than they want to offer.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/I'mJazzed"]I'mJazzed[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534342054"]Dec 11, 2020 | 8:47 AM[/URL]
[/QUOTE]

Udoka made sense regardless. Favors spotting up from 3 doesn't unless Rudy is gone and than they need to look to trade all their old guys anyway and start gathering assets
[QUOTE]That is why I would only offer a 4 year max deal at just north of 30 million. That basically means he replaces Conleys contract next year and Mitchell slots into Goberts. So the Jazz still have a full cap and need a replacement at pg near the minimum. Mitchell can take that spot. But then you need Need a backup still.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/brianH85"]brianH85[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534344770"]Dec 11, 2020 | 9:56 AM[/URL]
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Hopefully they can get takers for Bojan, Ingles, Clarkson, Favors contracts if anything

[QUOTE]Ingle’s contract is not aging well.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Palmetto%20Bug"]Palmetto Bug[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534345207"]Dec 11, 2020 | 10:09 AM[/URL]
[/QUOTE]

wasn't when they extended it. Typical Jazz move

[QUOTE]We might see a solid above average year from ingles. His game doesn’t rely on quickness so I don’t see age being much of a factor.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/brianH85"]brianH85[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534345925"]Dec 11, 2020 | 10:31 AM[/URL]
[/QUOTE]

He's declined the part two years

[QUOTE]And a single year contract for a guy is tradeable if needed for either a longer contract from someone looking for short term flexibility or by throwing in a second rounder or two.
I am not too worried.
The west is stacked this year at pg/sg with Curry, Harden, Lillard, Booker, George, and Doncic. Unless Mitchell has a full season like the playoffs I don’t see the super max kicking in meaning his salary would be about 33 million a year in that scenario.
That is a good aim for Gobert too.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/brianH85"]brianH85[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534348071"]Dec 11, 2020 | 11:26 AM[/URL]
[/QUOTE]

continuing to trade picks to get rid of bad deals isn't a good strategy

[QUOTE]Last season was a down year for Ingles and the best season of Clarkson’s career, and Ingles was still more valuable.
Ingles is a better shooter, gets a lot more steals, and about 2.5x more assists. Ingles also has better advanced stats (OWS, DWS, Total WS, VORP). Clarkson has a better BPM, helped by the fact that he played with the bench.
I wonder if all of the negativity about Ingles is due to his poor playoff showing, but the bubble was weird and a very small sample size.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Kira%20Argonova"]Kira Argonova[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534354398"]Dec 11, 2020 | 2:26 PM[/URL]
[/QUOTE]

but Clarkson sucks. Ingles has declined the past two years

[url]https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade[/url]

[QUOTE]The Jazz and the Bucks are in inverse situations. The Bucks would love nothing more than to give Giannis the supermax any day, Utah is doing everything they can to get a contract as far away from the supermax while still keeping Rudy in Utah.


[/QUOTE]

and if they're trying to pay him less than Mitchell or what other teams can pay him than he needs to say no

[QUOTE]Gobert is an elite, all-nba force and he deserves a BIG contract but, and it’s a huge but, if Utah gives him that money they are putting a hard ceiling on what the team is now and in the near future. Utah has also designed everything they do around Gobert’s strengths. So if things fall apart with Gobert midway through the contract it’s almost certainly untradable because he won’t fit as seamlessly with other teams. On top of that the center position is one of the most undervalued in the league right now. Considering the chemistry issues last season, these are real concerns.


[/QUOTE]

they've already capped out on what they can do with the current roster and their future payments to them. No contract is untradeable as we continue to see


[QUOTE]Now, it could be that the ceiling for the Jazz is the western conference finals, or maybe even beyond. The Jazz will find that out this season.


[/QUOTE]

We've already found it. Going back in time with Favors again doesn't change that

[QUOTE]It’s looking like December 21st is a big day for the Jazz. By December 22nd we’ll know if Gobert is going to be on the Jazz for a long while or if the Jazz might be looking for some sort of move. One thing is for sure, going through another Hayward situation is out of the question. This Christmas is going to be a unique one for sure.



[/QUOTE]

Not comparable. Rudy is without a doubt the 3rd most important member of the organization ever. Hayward was a 2nd fiddle as is everyone's darling Mitchell

[QUOTE][B]Too much[/B]


Giving Rudy anything more than a regular max is a mistake and I’m glad the FO has taken a hard stance on this. In fact, I think the target is just below a regular max.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/J-Note"]J-Note[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534339782"]Dec 11, 2020 | 7:42 AM[/URL]

[/QUOTE]


As long as tanking is your thing. He is the franchise as we've seen before he emerged and the 3 times he missed a month

[QUOTE]Rudy at the max is 30% of Salary cap. Donovan’s Rookie max is 25%, so Rudy’s ego shouldn’t be hurt.
My Rudy extension would look like this (Same for 3yrs then declining);
Year 1 $32.8M+Incentives
Year 2 $32.8M+Incentives
Year 3 $32.8M+Incentives
Year 4 $30.3M+Incentives
Year 5 $27.5M+Incentives (Team option, partially guaranteed)
Equaling: $ 156.2 +Incentives

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/AdMan59"]AdMan59[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534353990"]Dec 11, 2020 | 2:08 PM[/URL]
[/QUOTE]

Mitchell could get supermax. No way would I take less than what Mitchell could potentially get

[QUOTE][B]Even $133 Mil is too much[/B]


Rudy Gobert is one of the most underrated players in the league, but you have to be at least top 10 to even think about a supermax. In my opinion not even all of those players are worth that much money. And Gobert is not top 10. That said, Rudy is a great player and extremely valuable to the Jazz, but I think somewhere on the order of 4 years $100 million would be best for both sides and accurately reflects Rudy’s value.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/PianoGuy13"]PianoGuy13[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534341017"]Dec 11, 2020 | 8:18 AM[/URL]
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highly debatable. Not many guys carry their teams at both ends of the floor

[QUOTE][B]I don’t either[/B]


I just think that would be ideal. And I agree about Rudy needing to feel valued. I truly think Gobert will end up with the regular max, and his agent is just waiting until the last second to make sure the Jazz really won’t offer more. No sense in rushing into things.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/PianoGuy13"]PianoGuy13[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/11/22169140/what-is-going-on-with-the-rudy-gobert-contract-negotiations-nba-supermax-trade#534341532"]Dec 11, 2020 | 8:32 AM[/URL]

[/QUOTE]

than he should leave and go to a franchise that is serious about winning

[QUOTE][URL="https://www.nba.com/jazz/utah-jazz-sign-trevon-bluiett"]The Utah Jazz announced today that the team has signed guard Trevon Bluiett[/URL].
– via [URL="https://www.nba.com/jazz/utah-jazz-sign-trevon-bluiett"]NBA.com[/URL]



[/QUOTE]

I could see him on the roster and even fighting for those last rotation minutes. Not sure why you wouldn't just have him in camp to start

[url]https://www.ksl.com/article/50065131/everybody-loves-fav-even-derrick-favors-new-jazz-teammates-are-excited-to-have-him-in-utah[/url]

[QUOTE]"You're reminded as a coach of really why you do this: to have a chance to go through the good and the bad times with someone that you rely on and trust," Quin Snyder said. "And that's a special part of the job, and I think it's unique to team sports."


[/QUOTE]

the fact that you trust Favors spotting up for 3 in the corner is reason enough as to why you shouldn't be the coach

[QUOTE]With Favors returning to fill the backup center role — a role the Jazz didn't quite realize the importance of until he left — the debate over whether or not he and Gobert can play together shouldn't need to begin again. The same can be said about the persistent trade rumors that followed Favors during his first stint in Utah. But it didn't take long for those to be hinted at once again.


[/QUOTE]

I think they realized how important it was. They spent their money last year on Ed Davis instead of a starting 4

[QUOTE][URL="https://theathletic.com/2241657/2020/12/10/hollinger-2020-21-jazz-preview-lineup-predictions-and-rudy-goberts-future/"]In a season preview[/URL] in The Athletic, John Hollinger (who was critical of the move to bring back Favors) did write "Favors was the best available player in free agency and thus could have trade value in-season." When Snyder said things felt normal, he probably wasn't referring to that. But Favors' teammates, both the old and the new, think things will work just fine.


[/QUOTE]

Hollinger seems to get it. Believe he's the one that said Shaq was their best move

[QUOTE]"I mean, I think that he's gonna be great for us," Bogdanovic said. "His basketball IQ is pretty high, he's got playoff experience which is most important for us … and he's going to give us depth to play either with the two bigs or helping the second unit. So I'm happy that he's here with us and I think that he's gonna be a big part of what we are doing."


[/QUOTE]

the two bigs part sounds good except for Favors spotting up in the corner for 3

[QUOTE]Clarkson could be one of the biggest beneficiaries of Favors' return. He'll now have an experienced screener and pick-and-roll man to play with in the second unit. That should make life a little easier for the guard who had to do most of the heavy lifting on the second unit last season.


[/QUOTE]

like Clarkson wants a screen! :roll:

[QUOTE]"He's a great screen setter so I know he'll get me open," Clarkson said. "I know he's able to catch, finish and make plays, so he's definitely a big factor of this second unit and this team. Excited to play with him, excited to run him, just glad that he's here."


[/QUOTE]

He had the best screen setter Rudy on the floor with him in the bubble yet Rudy, Mitchell and Conley stood around watching #1 option Clarkson go 1 on 5

Wish everybody had loved Millsap as much as they love Favors. Might have done something special

[url]https://www.slcdunk.com/2020/12/12/22171339/utah-jazz-open-nba-preseason-against-the-phoenix-suns[/url]

[QUOTE]According to the Jazz Mike Conley and Royce O’neale will be out for rest and Shaq Harrison is still nursing a broken right hand.


[/QUOTE]

Figured Bojan might be out. Royce must be the other one with the Trump virus

[QUOTE]Are we going to see players moving well within the system? Utah has made very little adjustments to the main components of the roster. And adding Derrick Favors means they have a player already familiar with Quin Snyder and his systems.


[/QUOTE]

you mean besides Clarkson?

[QUOTE]Do we get to see the rookies play?


[/QUOTE]
I imagine with the 3rd unit for a bit late

[QUOTE]For a #27 pick and a #39 pick there’s a good amount of hype. Some of that comes from typical fanaticism but some of that also comes from a 2020 [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/nba-draft"]NBA draft[/URL] that was remarkably deep.


[/QUOTE]

most of it comes from Udoka sounding like he could be a bigger Rudy and Hughes getting guaranteed money for two years while Tucker was traded and Brantley is back on a two way

[QUOTE]Utah made a surprise pick at #27 picking Udoka Azubuike. Fans were surprised because they passed on other well esteemed players that were available at that spot like Desmond Bane or Xavier Tillman. It may be another example of the front office knowing better than fans with some of the reports out of camp.


[/QUOTE]

center was what they needed so he seems to make perfect sense. Hughes instead of a 1 not so much. Want to see the Rubio wannabe

[QUOTE]Azubuike has a chance to turn heads, and he needs to if he wants to see any playing time. The Jazz have said that they plan on having Derrick Favors play mostly backup center which means that Azubuike will have to leapfrog Favors to get regular minutes. That is very unlikely. More likely is that we see Azubuike get big minutes in the preseason and then in the regular season get occasional minutes when the Jazz have games where they use a Favors/Gobert front court. Against a team like the [URL="https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/"]Los Angeles Lakers[/URL], for example.


[/QUOTE]

doubt he gets big minutes except in the bubble with the Stars and if Rudy is traded

[QUOTE]So for Jazz fans, tonight is a big chance to see Azubuike in action. Does he surprise with his size and athleticism? Let’s hope so because it was definitely a surprise pick and Utah had other options at that spot.


[/QUOTE]

sounds like the best option

[QUOTE]This will also be a chance to see #39 pick Elijah Hughes. Hughes comes with a polished offensive game. His defense is a bit of a question mark because he comes from playing a zone at Syracuse. So tonight should be fun to see how he plays with the Jazz. Hughes has a lot of tools to be excited about. Normally I wouldn’t expect much from a #39 pick but there are reasons to be excited about the potential with Hughes. He has nice size (he’s listed as 6”6’) and his jumpshot looks like it will translate nicely to the NBA. He also looks like he has a strong frame (listed at 215 lbs.)


[/QUOTE]

wingspan isn't much and he didn't hit the 3 in college

[QUOTE]I still think the Jazz team is weak at the PF position. The Jazz doesn’t have much money or assets available to sign a free agent PF or trade for a PF on another team’s roster. However, I think that a roster slot used for developing a stretch-4 player would be much better utilized—both for the present and the future—than a roster slot being used on Nigel Williams-Goss, who is effectively the 7th-string point guard for the Jazz (behind Conley, Mitchell, Ingles, Harrison, Clarkson and Forrest).
Skal Labissierre is still available as a free agent. He’s a player with 4 years of NBA experience, so his vet minimum salary would be the same as Harrison’s salary—$1,678,854—only $160,873 more than the current salary of Williams-Goss ($1,517,981). He has all the attributes to become a good stretch-4 PF, but still needs some development, whereas he has not played that much in his first four years in the NBA. He is tall, long, athletic, and has a nice shooting stroke. He also has nimble feet and shotblocking ability. His weaknesses are strength and motor. He would be an ideal project player to attempt to groom as a stretch-4 PF. He basically has the size and length of center, but will probably never have the strength and toughness to bang in the post. However, as a PF, he would not need to be as strong and tough, and has the skill set to become a good stretch-4 PF who can also play some defense and get rebounds.
That is the one tweak of the Jazz roster I would still like to for the upcoming season.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Fesenko%20for%20President"]Fesenko for President[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/2020/12/12/22171339/utah-jazz-open-nba-preseason-against-the-phoenix-suns#534387943"]Dec 12, 2020 | 2:29 PM[/URL]
[/QUOTE]

No starting 4 other than Favors spotting up for 3 is pretty weak eh? They are already developing Brantley and Morgan! Goss isn't behind Forrest and shouldn't be behind a guy that won't pass. He's a good pg. Not sure if he's an NBA pg. I like Skal but again is he better than the guys they have? They need a starter not another young guy.

[url]https://www.slcdunk.com/2020/12/12/21565933/utah-jazz-second-year-players-preview-miye-oni-jarrell-brantley-juwan-morgan[/url]

[QUOTE]Let’s be pretty clear - with the signing of Shaquille Harrison, Nigel Williams-Goss is highly likely to be cut, given their overlapping positions and Williams-Goss’ non-guaranteed contract. Justin Wright-Foreman, despite a G-League All-Star award, was not offered another two-way contract, so he may or may not choose to stay in the Jazz organization given the glut of players ahead of him. And, Rayjon Tucker was traded to the Cavs, who waived him; he’ll see action as part of the Clippers.


[/QUOTE]

They have the roster space so they can carry Goss. Be interesting to see if Forman plays with the Stars

[QUOTE]Harrison also eats into Miye Oni’s playing time. Oni has been mentioned as a potential contributor as a perimeter defender, with a dangerous enough outside shot, which also happened to be Harrison’s role on the Bulls the last two years. While Oni hasn’t been able to really show his abilities at the NBA level, he did beat out all of the other draftees for the final roster spot last year, and has shown that he can play as a ball-handler in the Jazz system in the G-League, with excellent shooting, rebounds, and assists.


[/QUOTE]

remains to be seen if Harrison will be ahead of any of these guys. Oni didn't shoot great to start the year. Horrible in fact

[QUOTE]Juwan Morgan and Jarrell Brantley both fulfill the-end-of-bench four-spot role. Behind Bojan Bogdanovic, Georges Niang, and the occasional minutes Royce O’Neale, Joe Ingles, and Derrick Favors will play at the spot, it’s unlikely that Morgan or Brantley will have much of a direct impact. However, it is worth mentioning that the Jazz looked particularly stable in the playoffs with Morgan starting, losing Game 1 in overtime and absolutely blowing out the Nuggets in Game 2 (small sample size, I know, I know). His Game 1 plus minus was a team +17; Niang was the next highest at +3 (though single-game plus-minus statistics should always be taken with a huge grain of salt). But with no one on the team able to truly match up with the forward mismatches along the likes of Lebron, Kevin Durant, and Kawhi Leonard, we may see Morgan play crucial minutes to reduce the workload that rests upon Royce and to a lesser extent Bojan and Jingles - Coach Quin clearly trusted him enough to start him and double his role in the playoffs.


[/QUOTE]

Brantley and Morgan should both be in the mix for the minutes. The open roster space ideally will remain flexible if they need to convert Brantley into a regular deal at some point

[QUOTE]Brantley is also a candidate for a bigger role. Brantley’s G-League numbers smell a little bit like Draymond Green’s, and with similar physical profiles, it would be excellent for him to gain experience at a higher level to develop into a Draymond-like player. It’s clear he dominates at a lower level, also having been selected as a G-League All-Star this past season, but NBA level performance can only come with experience and exposure. It is notable that Brantley is still on a two-way contract, so his time with the main team is still limited only 45 days across the season. With a more compressed season, his number may be called more often.


[/QUOTE]

He can be with the team more this year and again with their flexibility roster wise they shouldn't be worried about that

[QUOTE][h=4]I'm not sure why the Jazz is so enamored with playing Georges Niang as the team's primary backup PF this season, even though he is an excellent 3-point shooter.[/h]
He’s about the same size and has almost identical physical characteristics to that of Kyle Korver, who has never been considered to be a PF by any NBA management team. I’m guessing the only reason the Jazz want to play Niang at PF is because he’s even slower than Korver, and therefore, doesn’t have the minimum level of quickness to effectively guard NBA small forwards or guards. The problem with Niang playing the PF position is that he also doesn’t have the size, athleticism or physicality to effectively guard PFs or centers (or to effectively rebound against them)—even the smaller, less-physical ones. He’s basically a "tweener" in this NBA era when the word "tweener" is a dirty word, and the phrase "position-less basketball" is all the vogue.
I’m not saying that Niang still doesn’t have considerable value for the Jazz. In the right scenario, if Niang can come into the game for a few minutes, and nail 3 or 4 3-point shots in a row (which he has done on occasion)—without being a terrible liability on the defensive end—he can be a true difference maker for the Jazz. However, I think the Jazz need to carefully pick and choose the type of situations where Niang plays. If he comes into the game, gets 3 or 4 shots on offense, but only scores 4-5 points on those 3 or 4 shots, and then gives up 6 or 8 points on the defensive end, that doesn’t help the Jazz. He’s the type of player who can help a team win by his great shooting, or can help a team lose, if his shooting is a little off and he gets skewered on the defensive end by a bad defensive matchup. Therefore, his game isn’t really suited for him to be a regular rotation player as the 2nd string PF, in my opinion. Even Juwan Morgan—who really hasn’t yet really shown a high level of NBA talent—seems much better suited for that role. Perhaps Jarrell Brantley—who has shown flashes of NBA talent—will be able to play backup PF for the Jazz, even though he’s a bit undersized for the position (though not nearly as undersized as Niang).
My only disappointment of Jazz management in the off season is that management has been content to bring back the same assortment of pieces-who-don’t-quite-fit in order to man the backup PF position.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Fesenko%20for%20President"]Fesenko for President[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/2020/12/12/21565933/utah-jazz-second-year-players-preview-miye-oni-jarrell-brantley-juwan-morgan#534390984"]Dec 12, 2020 | 3:32 PM[/URL]
[/QUOTE]

remains to be seen if Niang plays ahead of them. Brantley has a 7'2 wingspan and a big body. He's hardly undersized! Would have been disappointing if they didn't bring back some of the 6 rookies. Made no sense to carry them unless they really saw something in them

[QUOTE]We have two very good PF’s:
Bogey and Favors.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Kira%20Argonova"]Kira Argonova[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/2020/12/12/21565933/utah-jazz-second-year-players-preview-miye-oni-jarrell-brantley-juwan-morgan#534391912"]Dec 12, 2020 | 3:56 PM[/URL]
[/QUOTE]

:roll:

[QUOTE]I really don’t understand the hesitancy to have 10 minutes a game with Derrick and Rudy on the floor together.
They were positive before and now the Jazz have better shooters so I want to see it!
No O’Neale tonight

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/AdMan59"]AdMan59[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/2020/12/12/21565933/utah-jazz-second-year-players-preview-miye-oni-jarrell-brantley-juwan-morgan#534394430"]Dec 12, 2020 | 5:16 PM[/URL]
[/QUOTE]

They have better shooters because they are wide open. With Favors man leaving him they won't be!

[QUOTE]Tony Jones: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Utah Jazz coach Quin Snyder said he wants to see a lot of the concepts the Jazz established in the bubble translate to tonight’s preseason opener. The Jazz want to play faster[/URL]
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/Tjonesonthenba"]Twitter Tjonesonthenba[/URL]




Tony Jones: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Quin Snyder: with how many shooters we have, it makes sense to take more shots[/URL]
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/Tjonesonthenba"]Twitter Tjonesonthenba[/URL]




Ben Anderson: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Derrick Favors won’t start tonight according to Quin Snyder[/URL].
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/BensHoops"]Twitter BensHoops[/URL]




Tony Jones: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Quin Snyder: our team is very different from a year and a half ago when we had Rudy and Fav (Derrick Favors). Spacing is important to us and with fav and rudy the space is different….and that’s ok[/URL]
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/Tjonesonthenba"]Twitter Tjonesonthenba[/URL]




Tony Jones: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Quin Snyder: Derrick has been terrific playing the five (center)…his rim protection has been terrific with our second unit[/URL]
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/Tjonesonthenba"]Twitter Tjonesonthenba[/URL]




[/QUOTE]

Nothing about D is worrisome. Scoring points wasn't a concern though with Favors spotting up for 3 it might be

Based on the that game I'd start Morgan. O'Neale off the bench at the 4 and wing. No Favors from the corner was a relief. Clarkson wasn't as bad as he can be. Niang should still be ahead of Oni for the 10th spot until Shaq enters the equation. Goss can't be cut so easily! Not sure if he can defend in the NBA still. Hughes looked good. He isn't shy but at least no Clarkson yet. Forrest looked good too. Can they teach him to shoot?

[url]https://kslsports.com/448530/new-old-faces-flourish-in-jazz-preseason-win/[/url]

[QUOTE]Though Favors and Gobert never shared the floor, the backup big man did see time with Bogdanovic and second-year forward Juwan Morgan.


[/QUOTE]

Bojan isn't a big line up. You have to play big

[QUOTE]While Morgan and Favors stand just 6’8, they bring much-needed length and physicality to the team’s rotation.


[/QUOTE]

You mean Bojan? He's not long and physical. They kept saying Morgan was undersized. Don't know his wingspan but he looks and plays like a 4 despite his height

[QUOTE]Guard Miye Oni brought additional length in his defense against Suns star Devin Booker. Oni played 25 minutes, and though he scored just three points on 1-6 shooting, he proved to be a valuable body on the defensive end.


[/QUOTE]

got to hit shots though![CENTER][/CENTER]

[url]https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/2020/12/12/triple-team-jazz-open/[/url]

[QUOTE]That’s a step forward for a guy who has already made big strides in the number of threes he takes. As a rookie, Clarkson only shot one of every five looks from beyond the arc. That’s steadily improved, now it’s about 47% of his looks. I wouldn’t be shocked to see Clarkson get over 50% of his shots from behind the arc this year. And that’s a good thing: it opens up space for others, keeps Clarkson efficient, and reduces some of the folly of his other midrange attempts.



[/QUOTE]

space for others to watch Clarkson go 1 on 5?

[QUOTE]Without a summer league, there’s been precious little opportunity to evaluate some of the players at the end of the roster. In particular, it’s been a shame not to be able to give time and coaching opportunity to guys like Udoka Azuibuike, Elijah Hughes, Miye Oni, Jarrell Brantley, Juwan Morgan, Trent Forrest, and Nigel Williams-Goss a chance to show what they can do.



[/QUOTE]

Tucker and Wright Forman as well as some of the Stars and guys that are now on Exhibit 10's

[QUOTE]Oni looked poised to gain a back-of-rotation spot going into the regular season, but the signing of Shaq Harrison makes that less likely — Harrison has the longer NBA track record of NBA defensive success. But there will be plenty of nights like this one in this NBA season too, where a wing can’t play in the rotation for whatever reason. Joe Ingles, Mike Conley, and Bojan Bogdanovic are all over 30, at some point someone will get COVID-19, and so on. Oni will likely be asked to contribute, and he didn’t look out of place in that scenario.



[/QUOTE]

has to be able to knock down open shots

[QUOTE]But there were also times when the excitement put him out of position, leading to easy rebounds or layups for Phoenix. He also struggled defensively on the perimeter a little bit. He’s got a decent shot to lead the league in blocks per minute, but will take some time to be a true impact player defensively — similar to Mitchell Robinson in New York.



[/QUOTE]

as long as they sign Gobert he has nothing but time

[QUOTE]• Elijah Hughes looked smooth offensively and pretty rough defensively. You never want to say you’ve been put through the ringer by Langston Galloway, but when Galloway earned an and-one on a 3-pointer, that’s exactly what happened. But I liked Hughes offense, and in particular, his willingness to take threes immediately off the catch and a couple of feet behind the line.



[/QUOTE]

Not sure how willing he should be if he can't hit them

[QUOTE]• I continue to love Juwan Morgan, because the guy just makes good decisions all the time. He’s not a very good athlete, but plays within himself, rebounds, and passes the ball extremely well. Tonight, the 3-ball went down — he scored 11 points on 3-4 3-point shooting. If that’s a weapon, he’ll stay in the league.



[/QUOTE]

It's a weapon. He defends too. Start him!

[QUOTE]And then he turned it around, made his threes, got to the free-throw line repeatedly, and ended up with 15 points in 15 minutes. It was a quiet 15 points, but 15 points is 15 points! I still believe he’s facing an uphill battle to make the regular season roster, but we’ll see.



[/QUOTE]

you could do worse. He's a good player. Not sure an NBA player though. Need another vet ideally



[h=2][/h]

[url]https://www.deseret.com/sports/2020/12/12/22170833/utah-jazz-bojan-bogdanovic-phoenix-suns-nba[/url]

Looked like they were letting Niang show off his skills more posting up and running some pick and roll as well which makes him that much more valuable

[url]https://www.deseret.com/sports/2020/12/12/22158986/instant-analysis-utah-jazz-phoenix-suns-jordan-clarkson-derrick-favors-preseason-nba[/url]

[QUOTE][h=1]Instant analysis: Jazz beat Suns as Jordan Clarkson steals the show and Derrick Favors returns in perfect fashion[/h]


[/QUOTE]

If gunning is your thing than sure Clarkson was the man! :facepalm

[QUOTE]I had nearly forgotten that one of my favorite parts of having Clarkson on the Jazz is that on a nightly basis we get to watch him get millimeters away from losing his handle and then somehow regain control and make a circus play of some sort. I’m going to go ahead and say that he’s the best in the NBA at that very specific thing.


[/QUOTE]

not really a good thing

[QUOTE]There were at least two instances on Saturday when Miye Oni was wide open for a 3 and seemed a little surprised or not ready when he received the ball from a teammate and then shot the ball a little flat. It was like he didn’t completely get his legs underneath him before taking the shot. This could just be first-night jitters, which would be super understandable, but Oni’s ability to knock down shots, especially the corner 3s, is tightly tied to him being able to break into the Jazz’s regular rotation.

[/QUOTE]

He's been more comfortable on the elbow than the corner

[QUOTE]It was great to see Bojan Bogdanovic back on the court, and there were certainly some flashes of what he’s capable of, but it’s going to take some time for him to get back to the old Bogey we’ve come to know and love. That’s not a bad thing. The guy hadn’t shot a live-game 3-pointer since March and is just coming off wrist surgery on his shooting hand. He went 2-of-6 from deep against the Suns. He’ll get there.

[/QUOTE]

You wouldn't know it but he sucked last pre season and everyone was worried. Put that to bed in game 1

[QUOTE]Before the game, Suns coach Monty Williams made a point to say that the preseason is no time to mess around because Phoenix is still a team that needs to earn respect around the league. Well, it’s kind of hard to really take the Suns seriously when Chris Paul, Jae Crowder and Dario Saric aren’t playing.

[/QUOTE]

yep they are being overrated. Prove something first

[QUOTE]Preseason games aren’t really the place to judge the defensive abilities of an NBA team. Rotations are all over the place, a certain percentage of players aren’t going to give it everything they have because it truly doesn’t count, and half the game is basically a G League contest, so we’ll have to wait and see where the Jazz are on that end of the floor.

[/QUOTE]

where they stand could depend on Snyder. Is Morgan starting?

[QUOTE][B]Wow you really hate Goss[/B]


He played all of 50 minutes last year. That isn’t enough to make a conclusion about a player. If he didn’t earn a roster spot tonight then it would’ve been impossible for him to.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Ethan%20Renshaw"]Ethan Renshaw[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/2020/12/12/22172144/utah-jazz-defeat-phoenix-suns-in-nba-preseason-opener-donovan-mitchell-devin-booker-jordan-clarkson#534407940"]Dec 13, 2020 | 1:14 AM[/URL]
[/QUOTE]

I love to read the opinions of people that haven't seen these guys with the Stars too!

[QUOTE]The Jazz have at least 4-5 players on the team who can fill the point guard role better than Williams-Goss. Williams-Goss has a skill set that probably at least 10-15 other fringe NBA players have, as well, and he’s at an age and at a level of experience where he is probably not going to get much better, so he could easily be replaced. I watched him in summer league several years ago when he was first drafted by the Jazz and did not observe any particular skill or attribute that would make him anything other than a very marginal NBA player. After playing over in Europe for a couple of years, when he came back to the Jazz last season, he had improved from the time he was drafted by the Jazz, but I still did not observe any particular skill or attribute that made him anything other than a very marginal NBA player. Watching him play tonight, although he has improved a bit over last season, I still did not observe any particular skill or attribute that made him anything other than a very marginal NBA player. And, his overall skill set is redundant on this particular Jazz team, and could be replaced by the skill sets of several other players currently on the team.
Instead of simply signing, trading for, or drafting a bona fide NBA PF during the off-season, the Jazz appeared to be trying to somehow create a PF from off of the bargain-basement, NBA scrap heap. Niang is a good shooter, but is not a good defender or rebounder, so objectively, he is only a marginal NBA player. In fact, I don’t think he will ever be even as good as the player he replaced—Jonas Jerebko, who is now out of the NBA altogether. Morgan seems to be better than Niang, and might be able to be developed into an NBA rotation-level stretch-4 PF, but currently appears to still be at least a year to two away from achieving that status. If the Jazz wants to be a serious contender this season, I would hope that the Jazz would quit "dinkin’ around" in trying to turn either Niang or Morgan into a rotation level stretch-4 PF, or in repeating the failed strategy of playing an undersized SF at the PF position, and just find a player who can already competently play the PF position.
Therefore, although I don’t hate Williams-Goss or Niang, I would just prefer to have a better player or players than Williams-Goss or Niang on the team, who could competently play the PF position.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Fesenko%20for%20President"]Fesenko for President[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/2020/12/12/22172144/utah-jazz-defeat-phoenix-suns-in-nba-preseason-opener-donovan-mitchell-devin-booker-jordan-clarkson#534408178"]Dec 13, 2020 | 2:29 AM[/URL]
[/QUOTE]

3 guys. Clarkson isn't a point and Forrest has played one game and can't shoot. You had him 7th earlier so he's moving up! Most guys don't impress in their first summer league. They don't think they need a 4 for whatever reason. Niang is one of the most skilled offensive players on the team. I liked Jonas too though. I'd love a starting 4 but who is available now? Morgan might be their best option. Not sure how you can't be impressed by him. He was solid last year when he played. If he hits the 3 he should start

[QUOTE]We probably could’ve gotten someone for that role with the MLE, but I think most would agree last year showed backup center was a much more urgent need.
Goss also definitely fills a need for the team. He’s the only natural point guard on the team besides Conley. If Conley or Ingles have to miss time due to injury or COVID, we need someone like him to run the second unit, much like Mudiay did last year when Conley went out. Goss can definitely fill that role at least as well as Mudiay, perhaps better. He’s halfway between when Jingles and Royce came into the nba after following a similar path. He’s got great size for a pg, can handle the ball, defend and pass well enough. He’s great finishing inside and can get to the line. If his shot is falling like it was against the suns he has a lot to offer. I just don’t see how someone can watch him play like he did and not think he deserves a shot at an nba roster. That just screams refusing to change your mind about a player with barley a full game of nba playtime.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Ethan%20Renshaw"]Ethan Renshaw[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/2020/12/12/22172144/utah-jazz-defeat-phoenix-suns-in-nba-preseason-opener-donovan-mitchell-devin-booker-jordan-clarkson#534408573"]Dec 13, 2020 | 4:14 AM[/URL]
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Already had a serviceable cheap backup center that will just get better. They thought that was more important last year and it killed them with Davis and no 4. Goss might be a better pg than Mudiay. He's not the scorer he is but fits what they do better. Can he defend?

[url]https://www.slcdunk.com/2020/12/12/22172144/utah-jazz-defeat-phoenix-suns-in-nba-preseason-opener-donovan-mitchell-devin-booker-jordan-clarkson[/url]

[QUOTE]In the second half, Quin rested his starters, and we got to see our bench play extended minutes. Lot’s of guys impressed, including [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/336713/juwan-morgan"]Juwan Morgan[/URL] who had 11 points, 7 rebounds, and shot 3 of 4 from the three point line. [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/285729/nigel-williams-goss"]Nigel Williams-Goss[/URL] was a pleasant surprise off the bench tonight. He finished with 15 points on only 4 shot attempts! His shot looked smooth, and he got to the line frequently with his aggressive play.


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He's a good shooter and player. Only question is if he's athletic enough to defend

[QUOTE]In a game where 15 players saw the court, and nobody played more than 25 minutes, the production was very evenly spread among the Jazz roster. That said, the game ball has to go to the Flamethrower, Jordan Clarkson. JC lit it up tonight, hitting shots from all over the court. He led the team in scoring, with 19 points, and did it efficiently, hitting 5 of 10 from three. Opposing benches will have a hard time guarding Jordan Clarkson this season.


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I'd go Morgan

[QUOTE]There were a lot of positive things to take away from this game. The Jazz ran more and rained threes all night. This team will put up a lot of points this year, and it will be a lot of fun for Jazz fans to watch.



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be a lot funner if they defend

[QUOTE][B]I loved Morgan's minutes.[/B]


I hope his 3 is as good as it looked tonight, but that’s still a question mark. I know what to expect from his defense and rebounding though and I think that should give him a chance to break into the rotation.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Calvin%20Chappell"]Calvin Chappell[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/2020/12/12/22172144/utah-jazz-defeat-phoenix-suns-in-nba-preseason-opener-donovan-mitchell-devin-booker-jordan-clarkson#534406790"]Dec 12, 2020 | 10:50 PM[/URL]

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hit it with the Stars. No reason to think he can't hit open shots in the NBA as well

[QUOTE]Niang picked right up where he left off last season—he hit a few 3-point shots, but not at a great percentage; he played poor defense; and he tried to do too way much in the way of playmaking, which led to some unnecessary turnovers. I wasn’t impressed with his play, and I was truly puzzled why he got the start for the Jazz. If the Jazz are going to insist on playing Niang for regular minutes this season (for some inexplicable reason—because he’s not good), it’s going to lead to some unnecessary losses for the Jazz, because Niang is not yet ready to be a regular NBA rotation player on a good team (and I’m not sure he ever will be).
I thought Morgan looked better at the PF position than Niang—and he was hitting 3-point shots, but I don’t think he’s a rotation level PF yet either, although he might grow into that role in a year or two.
PF was an obvious weakness of the Jazz last season, and I’m not sure that Jazz management fixed the problem simply by adding Derrick Favors to the mix.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Fesenko%20for%20President"]Fesenko for President[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/2020/12/12/22172144/utah-jazz-defeat-phoenix-suns-in-nba-preseason-opener-donovan-mitchell-devin-booker-jordan-clarkson#534407828"]Dec 13, 2020 | 12:51 AM[/URL]
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I thought Niang looked good. Morgan was great and should get a chance to start. Favors played no 4 and hopefully won't. Yes they needed a proven vet starting 4

[QUOTE][B]Williams-Goss played better than last season, but I still don't think he did anything to deserve a roster spot with the Jazz, unless the Jazz just doesn't care who it has on end of its bench.[/B]


I thought Forrest looked better than Williams-Goss, in general, but Williams-Goss did hit some shots against the 2nd and 3rd string competition he faced tonight, to his credit. I would still like to see the Jazz try to switch out Williams-Goss for the best stretch-4 PF the team can afford.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Fesenko%20for%20President"]Fesenko for President[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/2020/12/12/22172144/utah-jazz-defeat-phoenix-suns-in-nba-preseason-opener-donovan-mitchell-devin-booker-jordan-clarkson#534407851"]Dec 13, 2020 | 12:55 AM[/URL]
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Forrest can't shoot. Goss fits the Jazz in every way. Only question is if he is athletic enough to defend. With Morgan and Brantley not sure what another young 4 does

[QUOTE]The Utah Jazz are one of the few teams to have announced plans to start the season with fans in the arena, playing host to up to 1,600 attendees, socially distanced from each other and the players. [URL="https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30484856/what-nba-players-saying-coronavirus-offseason-fans-returning-arenas"]Rudy Gobert: I think that if they make it happen they probably have the scientific evidence that it would be safe for us and for the fans in attendance.[/URL] Derrick Favors: I think that’s an amazing thing to do and hopefully everybody can stick to the safety protocols and we can continue to build and bring more fans in there.
– via [URL="https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30484856/what-nba-players-saying-coronavirus-offseason-fans-returning-arenas"]ESPN[/URL]



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don't count on it Rudy. They want the cash

[QUOTE]Quinton Mayo: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]In this league all you have to do is be solid. He didn’t do anything spectacular but he did everything good. He’ll be in the league a long time because of that. – Scott Brooks on Raul Neto[/URL]
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/RealQuintonMayo"]Twitter RealQuintonMayo[/URL]



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He's a player. Too bad he was never appreciated here

Kellan Olson: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Chris Paul said he’s playing tonight[/URL].
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/KellanOlson"]Twitter KellanOlson[/URL]

Duane Rankin: “We’re going to see tonight.” [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Chris Paul when asked about being in shape as he’ll make his #Suns debut. “I work out, I train just about every day. I run and all that, but playing is different. It’s totally different.[/URL] And it’s fitting that we here in Utah. We’re going to see.”
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/DuaneRankin"]Twitter DuaneRankin[/URL]



Kellan Olson: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]CP3 said the Suns’ attention to detail in every aspect of preparation (practice, shootaround, etc.) brings on a really good feeling for him[/URL] knowing all the work possible is being put in.
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/KellanOlson"]Twitter KellanOlson[/URL]

Eric Walden: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Asked what it’s like learning from Rudy Gobert, Azubuike said it couldn’t be understated given the similarity of their games: “I try to pick up his mindset, I try to talk to him all the time.[/URL] … I’m a really a good learner — I like to learn.”
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/tribjazz"]Twitter tribjazz[/URL]



Eric Walden: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Jazz center Udoka Azubuike, on his first game: “Of course I was nervous a little bit. … But the coaches told me ‘Just take your time and bring some energy.[/URL] … Obviously, I have to do better, there are things I have to work on, but it was a great experience.”
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/tribjazz"]Twitter tribjazz[/URL]

Eric Walden: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Utah Jazz guard Nigel Williams-Goss, who had a 15-point game on Saturday: “I’m feeling a lot more comfortable in my second year here — I think we all are.”[/URL] Said he feels progress has come as a result of being the first one on the court and the last to leave, + tons of film study.
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/tribjazz"]Twitter tribjazz[/URL]

[QUOTE]Crowder doesn’t solve the problem of the no-Gobert minutes, and so Utah would have to pay more money (plus luxury tax) to get some guy at the minimum or the Bi-Annual exception to hopefully not be terrible at the backup 5. Or, Utah could go with the known quantity in Favors. I would have been supportive of trying forward-center JaMychal Green (2 years, ~$15 million with Denver), which would have left a tiny bit more room with the MLE to get a true backup center to fill that need. But why have two lesser players whose salary equal one better one?


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Green isn't a lesser PF :facepalm

[QUOTE][INDENT][I]Meanwhile, the extension for Mitchell was an own goal of sorts as well. Utah completely capitulated on the most important part — a fifth-year player option for Mitchell that starts the clock on any potential exit a year early. In a small market, you can’t surrender rights to players that easily.[/I]
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especially when that player hasn't earned it

[QUOTE]It is very fair to criticize the Jazz around the edges for the offseason, and Hollinger wasn’t the only national guy with concerns. Danny Leroux gave the Jazz a D+ in his offseason grades (he and podcast host Nate Duncan use a “C” as average). We don’t know the breaking point in negotiations for Clarkson and Favors where they lose out on those guys, but Utah paid starter-level money for two players who won’t close most games if everyone is healthy. Player options for both players are also extremely risky, and not typically given to players of their caliber. And as much as I would like to start the groundbreaking for a Mitchell statue, giving him both (a) supermax-level raises if he reaches certain performance criteria and (b) the player option in his extension deal is simply an above-market deal for an All-Star who isn’t All-NBA (yet). Add in some very mild draft pick dumps to offload salary, and you’re left with an offseason that’s… fine… but not impressive or laudatory.


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Gobert is the one that is statue worthy. Only in Utah is this off season fins

[QUOTE]I like Harrison and he’ll be best suited as a guy to throw at a hot shooter or great player to give Mitchell, Conley, and/or O’Neale a break in the regular season. But let’s not overstate what he purports to be: a 9th/10th/11th man who will also rack up his fair share of DNPs.


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Exactly why he's panned their off season and called this their best pick up. Couldn't agree more

[QUOTE][INDENT][I]There is one scenario where Utah’s offseason makes some sense, and that’s if Favors and [Udoka] Azubuike were brought in to protect the Jazz’s flank in case Gobert departs.[/I]
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Which I think is a big part of it but even than if Gobert is traded it's time for a fire sale on all of their old guys because they will suck

[QUOTE]I’m probably just being Sensitive Jazz Fan here, but the sheer volume of unexplained snark seemed way higher here than in other previews Hollinger has done. Favors has always been a touch-and-go with knees and back pain, but he’s nowhere close to washed-up.


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and he's no where near the player Jazz fans want to believe he is.

[QUOTE]Regardless if any of the youngest Jazzmen are ready to play real minutes, the point of (over)paying for Clarkson and Favors is that the team is now very well-prepared to survive injuries to their highest-level players. It’s a very high-level 6th through 8th player group, which most teams do not have.


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Favors plays 30 minutes at best and Clarkson sucks so ok :facepalm

[QUOTE]With Utah’s positional fluidity at the 2, 3, and 4, if Elijah Hughes ends up as the “fourth wing,” that means he is taking minutes from Harrison (is he good or not?), Clarkson, and Niang. That is to say, he will have earned it (not in the Tony Bradley way) and it will be a massive success.


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Hughes should be way down the totem pole but with Quin who know

[QUOTE][INDENT][I][T]he offseason seemed more of a step backward than forward. By using their full midlevel on a player they didn’t really need…[/I]
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Favors is definitely a step back...yet again!

[QUOTE]After further thought, you’re right—Utah didn’t need to improve on Tony Bradley getting torched.


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no because he was cheap and improving. What they needed was a modern starting 4

[QUOTE]Again Hollinger drops a random slight with no real explanation. For Utah to draft Azubuike at No. 27, they traded back from pick 23, and then used the 38th pick from that deal to offload Bradley. It was merely a mild shuffling of draft deck chairs to draft a deep bench center with potential in the back-end of the first round, not some grand upheaval of draft assets.


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they made the right pick there it seems. Hughes makes less sense

[QUOTE]Again, who is this reasonably available wing player Utah missed out on here? It is still not clear that this was an actual problem for the Jazz (or at least that it won’t fix itself now that they’ve addressed the issue of backup center with a defensive anchor who keeps their system the same in non-Gobert minutes).


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still too small unless Favors is spotting up for 3 in the corner. Didn't fix their issues except by bringing back old issues



[QUOTE]Well it will obviously be another failed season if the Jazz don’t win the title this year, but they can go all-in-er-er by trading away a few more second round draft picks!

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pretty much. They should be competing at a much higher level but they prefer bringing back guys they like than fixing what is wrong

This is one of the worst Jazz homer articles ever!!! :lol

[QUOTE]Yeah, exercising the fourth-year option on Bradley was foolish at the time and it cost Utah a decent No. 38 pick. But making up for the bad Davis signing—again, good process in signing him with an unexpectedly bad result—is just regular NBA business to free up cash and a spot for a better player. And since Utah is going to pay the luxury tax in 2021, there’s no need to pay extra for Tucker when he was not good and the roster spot is better suited for Utah’s other youngsters. [URL="https://saltcityhoops.com/rebuttal-to-hollingers-blasting-of-the-all-in-er-jazz/#note-2"]2[/URL]


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Picking up an option of the youngest guy on the team who is getting better is foolish? Tucker wasn't good? At worst he was defensive energy at the end of the bench. He has 3 and D and 6th man potential. NBA body. Great athlete. His basketball iq might not have made him a great fit here but again if you're going to carry 6 rookies when you're supposedly contending than getting rid of them none of it makes much sense but this is the Jazz!

[QUOTE]In a world where the Los Angeles teams sprayed a fire hose of loosely protected first round picks and/or good players at OKC and New Orleans, Milwaukee dumped out their asset trove for Jrue Holiday, and even Michael Jordan spent nearly as much to bring Gordon Hayward to Charlotte as he did to start a brand new NASCAR team, Utah being comparably “all-in”—for the Conley trade and scraping a few second-round picks off the top to make up for marginally bad decisions—is bullshit.


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Just because they aren't contenders doesn't mean they aren't all in. Paying tax for their current roster is all in. Sure they could look to fill more spots with vets and pay more tax but they won't so I guess they aren't all in?

[QUOTE]Before any specifics about how/why the Jazz re-signed Favors, Hollinger immediately and incorrectly frames the Favors signing as though (a) Favors is a run-of-the-mill, replacement-level stiff, and (b) Utah is absolutely going to play Favors and Gobert at the same time as much as they did three years ago.


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He gets it. Sentimental Jazz front office and fans certainly don't


[QUOTE]Add some Conley health, more difficult decisions forced by bench offenses versus Favors at the rim, and maybe some cooling of a noisy stat, and I don’t think Utah has any reason to be particularly concerned about this if they’re ninth in defense with this roster.


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Conley was likely to miss time though. They need to be a lot better on D because the offense won't be as good if Favors plays with Gobert. That is guaranteed

[QUOTE]What is this based on? Bogdanovic missing the entire playoffs? Bogdanovic was generally great, Joe Ingles was rock steady, Royce O’Neale matches up totally fine as a 3/4 against most starting offenses, and Georges Niang plays a fourth forward role perfectly (play hard as hell; shoot open shots and make them; play to the best of your mental ability defensively). Even Clarkson won’t kill you at a forward spot against smaller teams, if, say, Portland wants to roll out a Damian Lillard-CJ McCollum-Gary Trent Jr. lineup.




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Bojan was great at shooting and scoring not much else. Ingles was hardly rock steady! WTF? O'Neale was too small. He plays a lot bigger than he is but he is a small ball 4 not a starting one. Now if they want to start Morgan and bring O'Neale off the bench and Niang goes to the 9-11 spots with Shaq and Oni things look a lot better. Still not ideal but better


[QUOTE]If Hollinger wanted Utah to spend money on forwards who maybe could size up defensively better against the LeBron James and Kawhi Leonard types of the league, who was available that would work? Derrick Jones Jr. could be that guy, but he got a massive role in Portland that Utah can’t offer (and he has his own limitations). Ditto for Grant, who Denver couldn’t hold onto. Toronto would match any reasonable offer for restricted free agent Chris Boucher. Justin Holiday isn’t better than Utah’s current options. The theory of Moe Harkless is better than the reality. These aren’t great players here to begin with, and do we really expect Utah to throw a fourth/fifth forward-type $8-10 million?


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Jamycheal Green should have been the target in FA. Trading Bojan for one would have been even better
[QUOTE]So if you’re not signing an actual LeBron stopper, what’s missing from this group? A forward or center with some mobility to cope with the size advantage of the Lakers/Clippers/Bucks, who provides luxury backup center defense to [URL="https://saltcityhoops.com/the-favors-factor-explains-why-utah-passed-on-adding-a-3-and-d-wing/"]allow Utah’s wings to play aggressively[/URL]. I wonder who fits that bill?


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They were too small last year. 1 center and 4 guards.wings. You ahve to be versatile and they answered that with Favors spotting up in the corner

[QUOTE]Tony Bradley, Ed Davis, and Derrick freakin’ Favors are the same, you see.


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No one is young and cheap so they could fill the starting 4

[QUOTE]But I thought Tony Bradley “earned” those minutes? And “did hurt them” in this sentence should mean “was the most glaring and obvious problem on the team.”


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Hardly. No starting 4, an undersized backcourt, lack of D, versatility, depth were bigger issues than the youngest guy on the team

[QUOTE]Setting aside the fact that Favors-Gobert isn’t a pairing likely to play a ton during the season (or at least as much as previous years), this statement is also simply wrong. As [URL="https://twitter.com/Ben_Dowsett/status/1337125471004237824"]Ben Dowsett helpfully researched so I didn’t have to[/URL], the Favors-Gobert pairing is plus-442 in 3188 minutes dating back to the 2015-16 season, including playoffs. A decent chunk of those minutes were played with the spacing-compromised Ricky Rubio. The Jazz will be better in the abstract with other players at the 4 alongside Gobert, but Hollinger reacts as if Utah signed Bismack Biyombo to play point guard. We might see Favors-Gobert a fair amount, but Utah will likely be careful about overextending the sometimes-achy Favors, and that duo will likely disappear come playoff time, unless specific matchups dictate otherwise.


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Don't count on it. He'll end up starting and playing way too much guaranteed

[QUOTE]You know what also “doesn’t work,” John? Asking O’Neale or Bogdanovic to guard Anthony Davis for 40 minutes. The Jazz aren’t going to dump us in a time machine to 2017 (although I am longing to see basketball in-person again); the Favors signing is clearly a luxury play to shoot for their personal best chance against the top teams of the league.


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which is why you don't sign Davis or Favors or Bojan or Clarkson and get a starting 4

[url]https://saltcityhoops.com/rebuttal-to-hollingers-blasting-of-the-all-in-er-jazz/[/url]

[QUOTE][I]It was supposed to be an all-in year, but it ended in the same exact place as the last several Utah seasons.[/I][/QUOTE]

All in with 6 rookies who weren't playing, no starting 4 and an undersized backcourt!

[QUOTE]I’d like to think a “big-picture view” takes into account all reasonably plausible outcomes, and not be reduced to a specific conclusion without fair context. Saying the Jazz simply “failed” is an outlook more suited to an old ViewMaster reel.


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It's the truth. They fixed the offense but the defense fell off too much. Fail

[QUOTE]Here’s your missing context: that “rewiring” was indisputably successful when the key conduits—Mike Conley Jr. and Bojan Bogdanovic—were available. It is unfairly reductive to render the season a complete failure after Bogdanovic missed the playoffs to repair a ruptured ligament in his shooting wrist, and Conley missed 25+ regular season games, plus two more in the Denver series.


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They knew Conley was likely to miss time. Depth is part of the equation and they chose to carry 6 rookies and then not play them when they needed help

[QUOTE]I’m taking the word “expensive” as an implication that it’s a bad deal—especially since [URL="https://theathletic.com/1265538/2019/10/07/hollingers-nba-division-previews-looking-up-to-the-nuggets-in-the-northwest/"]Hollinger called the contract an overpay[/URL] last offseason and wrote that Utah will “hate (the deal) in a couple years”—so let’s examine the market. Bogdanovic made $17 million last year and will make $18.275 million in 2020-21. In comparison, in this most recent offseason, free agents Danilo Gallinari ($20.5 million annually) and Jerami Grant ($20 million) signed more lucrative deals, and Marcus Morris ($16 million), Davis Bertans ($16 million), and Malik Beasley ($15 million) came in under. It’s decent money for Bogdanovic, to be sure, but he averaged a very efficient 20.2 points per game and didn’t falter as a defender, all while playing through an injury. Bogdanovic is better than any of the aforementioned players (I’ll entertain arguments about the silky offense/bullshit foul drawing ability of Gallinari, but, even after accounting for Bogdanovic’s relative limitations on defense, there remains a chasm between the two on that end of the court) and his contract is looking like a very decent piece of business for the Jazz.


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He shoots and scores and brings little else to the table. They don't have a 4 and the D fell off too much so it doesn't look like a great deal

[QUOTE][INDENT][I]In retrospect, they could have signed another perimeter player instead of [Ed] Davis, as Tony Bradley earned the backup center spot anyway.[/I]
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they needed a starting 4 and still do!

[QUOTE]“Earned” is not exactly what I’d say about Bradley’s role as the backup center, because he was not good! “Less bad than 2019-20 Ed Davis” is not an accomplishment.


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I think it's time to quit blaming Tony for everything. He led the league in offensive rebound % at least before the bubble. He was effective in pick and roll. He was getting better nightly. Maybe he wasn't Favors but he was good. They had bigger problems than their back up center

[QUOTE]Without Derrick Favors, Utah knew it would absolutely bleed without a stabilizing force in the middle when Rudy Gobert was on the bench. Utah also knew that Bradley wasn’t likely to be that force (they inexplicably picked up his fourth year option anyway to give him one more chance, but more on that later). So they brought in the respected and highly competent Davis.


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and expected to fill the hole at the 4 with guards, wings and Jeff Green! :facepalm Bradley deserved a shot. Should have brought in a vet on minimum to compete with him and use the money on a 4 just like they should have this year. Instead they still have the same huge hole at the 4

[QUOTE]Since Davis turned out to be terribly miscast and Utah was unfortunately right about Bradley, the Jazz got trucked whenever Gobert sat, and no alternative “perimeter player” would have helped that. Sure, we all saw way more Emmanuel Mudiay than we anticipated, but Utah wasn’t expecting Conley to be out for dozens of games, and Dante Exum was still injured and bad at point guard things. Using the $4.7M Room Mid-Level Exception on an Avery Bradley-type guy (Bradley was also bad for a few years at that point, but was seemingly re-energized by playing with LeBron James) wasn’t going to fix the issue of “opponent benches will relentlessly score on Utah if Tony Bradley is required to have any responsibility.”


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They should have expected Conley to miss time if they didn't. Bradley gets the blame because only 2 or 3 guys on the team play D? :lol


[QUOTE]It’s a gross exaggeration to say “the Jazz rebuilt their entire team around offense,” especially before the trade deadline. Getting the obvious out of the way, Conley is a plus defender. And, yes, going from the stalwart Favors to Bogdanovic in the starting lineup is a downgrade on defense. But Bogdanovic is definitely not tissue paper, and is an appropriate size for defending modern offenses. Davis was intended to supply most of what Favors could do defensively as a backup center. Finally, Gobert is a walking top-ten defense on his own (Jazz were tenth in defensive efficiency before their tanktastic, Summer League-esque bubble play-in games, per Cleaning the Glass). So, yeah, the Jazz could afford to reallocate some assets away from defense, but it’s not like they turned their entire defensive ethos upside-down with that one defensive downgrade — especially since it was also a talent upgrade and a solid overall fit.


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Conley didn't look like a plus defender. He's too small. Bojan was tissue paper. They certainly rebuilt around offense and is sounds like they are trying to score even more this year with only Favors there for D and if he plays the 4 so much for the O

[QUOTE]They weren’t.


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supposedly they were but with no 4 and 6 rookies obviously they weren't

[QUOTE]The Conley trade has been litigated and relitigated over and over again, and the only consensus issue is that the Jazz might have been forced to give up Jae Crowder because they insisted on keeping Dante Exum (if Memphis even wanted Exum to begin with). Which…


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Yeah who knows what they would have looked like if they'd given up Exum the year before to get Conley. Their love of Exum hurt them over and over again! :facepalm You have to no when to cut your losses and they waited many years too many

[QUOTE]Two seconds was the price mostly to dump Exum’s contract because Utah held on to him too long, as he was mostly bad at NBA basketball and that finally caught up with his asset value in 2019-20. Nobody’s losing sleep over those second round picks after what Clarkson provided, and by trading for Clarkson, Utah could maneuver over the cap to re-sign him.


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I am. How many picks have the given up to get rid of guys now? Clarkson got them a first round loss and likely the same result for years to come assuming they don't trade Rudy

[url]https://www.slcdunk.com/2020/12/14/22173689/utah-jazz-vs-phoenix-suns-part-deux-nba-preseason[/url]

[QUOTE]The [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/"]Utah Jazz[/URL] are coming into their Monday night game with the [URL="https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/?_ga=2.13205042.484556779.1606999600-247621959.1589286792"]Phoenix Suns[/URL] after an impressive win against the same team on Saturday. The reason that it was impressive, albeit it was a preseason game, is because the Jazz were without the services of Mike Conley. That combined with the fact that they are trying to integrate new faces onto the team, it was a good sign that the Jazz were able to hold up defensively against a team as potent as the Suns. It will be a huge challenge for the Jazz to try and contain the Suns for a second straight game.


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The Suns without Paul suck just like the Jazz without Gobert

[QUOTE]With the way that Mike Conley played in the bubble, it will be exciting to see if he can pick up where he left off. Especially matching up against a future hall of famer and defensive pest like Chris Paul. I don’t expect either Paul or Conley to have a lot of minutes and/or an epic showdown but I am intrigued by how Conley will look, especially if he gets a chance to play with Derrick Favors.

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He's back to 4th or 5th option. Don't expect bubble Mike

[QUOTE]Both Jazz rookies Udoka Azubuike and Elijah Hughes showed well in the first preseason game. Can they continue to show that they may be worthy of a rotation spot when the regular season starts? If so, it will give the Jazz some incredible depth. I know these two are rookies, and they will undoubtedly go through ups and downs this season, but it will interesting to see if they can play or if the first game was just a fluke.



[/QUOTE]

They are behind many guys or better be. Hughes looked good. Udoka looked like a project. Only reason they should be playing this year is if Rudy is traded

[QUOTE][h=4]No Shaq and O'Neale tonight. Dok is questionable (left knee soreness)[/h]
Will definitely miss seeing any minutes from Dok if he can’t go. But yes, maybe another start from Niang!

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/SKMike"]SKMike[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/2020/12/14/22173689/utah-jazz-vs-phoenix-suns-part-deux-nba-preseason#534448244"]Dec 14, 2020 | 11:45 AM[/URL]
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see what Gill can do! Hopefully O'Neale is back to back up Morgan to start the year

[QUOTE][h=4]Hughes is nice[/h]
Too bad his defense was pretty bad last game. Need him to get better at that, but he’s a scorer.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/TheNextGM"]TheNextGM[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/2020/12/14/22173689/utah-jazz-vs-phoenix-suns-part-deux-nba-preseason#534452802"]Dec 14, 2020 | 1:28 PM[/URL]
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without 3 and D he won't last past his guarantee of next year. May even have to dump more 2nds to get rid of him! :facepalm

[url]https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/14/22172892/utah-jazz-next-step-for-improvement-is-valuing-possessions-jazz-nba[/url]

[QUOTE][h=1]The Jazz’s next step for improvement is valuing possessions[/h]

[/QUOTE]

it's defense

[QUOTE]The point remains: the two strategy extremes the Jazz tested the past two seasons didn’t accomplish the mission. Why is that?


[/QUOTE]

front office and coach

[QUOTE]The 2020 NBA Champion LA [URL="https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/"]Lakers[/URL] (yes, I’m disgusted with myself for bringing it up too) were a good shooting and shot defense team similar to the Jazz. A key difference? They were exceptionally positive in both possession swing and points swing, aided in no small part by their size at the hoop and scrappiness on the perimeter.


[/QUOTE]

and the Jazz answered that with Favors spotting up in the corner

[QUOTE]Last season the Jazz lacked size and perimeter defense. This season the Jazz are hoping a daily does of [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/297091/derrick-favors"]Derrick Favors[/URL] and a measure of [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/283086/shaquille-harrison"]Shaq Harrison[/URL] every so often can help on both fronts. Ultimately, personnel alone won’t push the Jazz from the lower-left quadrant to the upper-right; it will be focus and strategy.


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having the right players would help and they don't

[QUOTE]And Bradley (and to a lesser extent Gobert) were the only players who could even sniff an offensive rebound. Bradley’s ORB%: 19.1. Gobert’s: 11.2.
Next highest among rotation players? Clarkson at 3.2 and Conley (!!) at 2.8. While Royce holds his own on the defensive glass, neither he nor Bojan nor anyone else really could ever snag second chances.
Hopefully Favors helps a lot here on the glass, but we need 1) to take better care of the ball, and 2) scheme better positioning or drill better technique to get rebounds.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Korumbian"]Korumbian[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/14/22172892/utah-jazz-next-step-for-improvement-is-valuing-possessions-jazz-nba#534442506"]Dec 14, 2020 | 9:38 AM[/URL]
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But Tony sucked! Only their centers hit the offensive boards so that won't change.


[QUOTE][h=4]ORB[/h]
good read. Sadly Q has never valued the offensive rebound much. I wish he did more. Rudy has the ability to dominate there if he was a bit stronger and was coached up on boxing out. I don’t think they will spend much time on the court together but if he and Favors were there together 1 could fight for them while the other got back on defense

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Jordan%20pushed%20off"]Jordan pushed off[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/14/22172892/utah-jazz-next-step-for-improvement-is-valuing-possessions-jazz-nba#534448299"]Dec 14, 2020 | 11:47 AM[/URL]
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He used to value it more. Gave it up for transition D. That's more the league trend I believe too

[QUOTE]My point was how much Rudy effects the Jazz positively in both TS% and ORB, and also hurts opponents in both categories. His is among the leagues elite in helping his own team’s TS% (not just his own, but his teammates shoot much better when he is on the floor), hurting the other team’s TS%, helping his own team’s ORB, and hurting the other team’s ORB.
As you highlighted, the Jazz’s main struggle is in turning the ball over and not causing their opponents to turn the ball over. The Jazz are among the worst in the league in both, and that hurts their advantage in TS% and offensive rebounds.

Posted by [URL="https://www.sbnation.com/users/Kira%20Argonova"]Kira Argonova[/URL] on [URL="https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2020/12/14/22172892/utah-jazz-next-step-for-improvement-is-valuing-possessions-jazz-nba#534451266"]Dec 14, 2020 | 12:53 PM[/URL]
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but let's low ball him because Favors and udoka can do it anyway! :roll:

[url]https://kslsports.com/448707/the-post-game-returns-to-the-utah-jazz/[/url]

Niang's probably their best in the post

So much for Favors not playing the 4. He is and the spacing was horrendous. Why can't they ever learn from the past? With Conley back Morgan was out of the rotation as well. Oni played well but once O'Neale is back not to mention Shaq he won't be playing either. Hughes is the 2nd coming of Clarkson and of course officially ahead of all gleaguer. Forrest looks good if they can teach him tho shoot

[url]https://kslsports.com/448725/jazz-show-high-potential-rust-in-win-over-suns/[/url]

[QUOTE]“I think it’s taking time to kind of work through it,” Conley said of the Jazz three guard lineup. “We end up find ourselves fighting for the outlet sometimes just trying to figure out who’s bringing the ball up.”


[/QUOTE]

guess that's the good thing about Clarkson. It's his ball and he isn't giving it up

[QUOTE]Forrest has had a quiet training camp for the Jazz, but has looked surprisingly steady in his limited time on the floor. The rookie guard finished with a modest statline of two points and three assists in eight minutes, but his impact was felt far beyond the box score.


[/QUOTE]

He's looked good. Do they think they can make him a decent shooter somehow though?

[url]https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/2020/12/14/triple-team-jazz-turn/[/url]

[QUOTE]I also want to give a shoutout to Georges Niang, who did have some really nice defensive plays despite not being known as a defensive player. That’s the one big knock on Niang, that he can’t keep up defensively, and we’ll see if he can during the regular season. But this is an excellent defensive rotation block on Ayton, and once he even defended an isolation situation against Paul well.



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what will the naysayers think! Doesn't really matter he's at best 9th in the rotation with Favors playing the 4.

[QUOTE]There are minutes to be earned at the backup power forward, between Niang, Juwan Morgan, shoehorning Derrick Favors in there, or just going small with four wings and guards. But if Niang shoots like he did last season and takes a step defensively, he’d be the favorite to win those minutes.



[/QUOTE]

Pretty obvious they are Favors minutes. Niang is probably next in line though Shaq could change that and Oni is in the mix as well. Morgan isn't it would appear

[QUOTE]Of course, the Jazz aren’t the Warriors. But there is real value in having these delightful, powerful scoring bursts which turn a game on its head. Tonight, it came right to open the second half: a 13-0 run in the course of exactly 100 seconds. The 49-48 lead expanded to 62-48, and that was that.



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could call it a defensive burst which is what they really need


[QUOTE]We’ve written about the Jazz’s desire to push the pace this year, and honestly, they say that every preseason. We’ll see if they can actually execute it when the regular season begins and becomes a slog; it’s a compressed 72-game schedule with a relatively shallow roster. But if they can turn talk into action, I’m a believer that a speedy pace can help.



[/QUOTE][h=2][/h]
But I thought they were deep?

[QUOTE]For a rookie who has been on the team less than a month, he’s shown an unusually good knowledge of when to attack and when to defer: he just takes advantage of his good opportunities while keeping it moving rather than forcing it. Tonight, he made only one of his five 3-point shots, but he was a 35% shooter in college, and I loved his willingness to take the three.



[/QUOTE]

He's not shy. Not sure what they want with a guy that doesn't have length and can't hit the 3 though

[QUOTE]• I’m a little bit disappointed in how Jarrell Brantley is struggling to make his presence known on the floor. In his rookie season, Brantley had the opposite problem: whether it was the crazy playmaking, the effort all over the floor, or the boneheaded turnovers and play-breaking decisions, you always knew Brantley was out there. Now, he’s trying to fit in. That’s a good impulse, but he needs to find the really tricky balance of fitting in while contributing in his own, unique way. There’s a happy medium there somewhere.



[/QUOTE]

That's more on the Jazz I'd say. He's obviously the most dynamic of their young guys but they want guys to just fit a role which Oni and Morgan have done. Probably can't be that happy that all gleague got him nothing but another 2 way and he'd behind Hughes as well as guys he outplayed with the Stars

[QUOTE]• Sorry, local friends. Jake Toolson isn’t an NBA player. The defense isn’t close, and there’s not a lot of reason to believe it will ever be good enough.



[/QUOTE]

don't think anyone thought it was

[QUOTE]But in this setting where opponents haven’t read the scouting report, he’s got a lot to offer: pick-and-roll slithery-ness, on-the-money passing, and free-throw-drawing craft. And on defense, that 6-7 wingspan and physicality makes him a real potential difference-maker. He certainly was in college, with impressive block and steal rates.



[/QUOTE]

average wingspan

[QUOTE]Is it mean to point out that Forrest has an NBA job right now, but Emmanuel Mudiay doesn’t? Okay, that’s wildly unfair: Mudiay can’t sign a two-way contract like Forrest did. But if Forrest can get the 3-ball to an acceptable level, he has the size, defense, and vision to stick in the league.




[/QUOTE]

having a contract doesn't mean you are better than others. Means you are cheaper, more potential, whatever