MJ (88-93): 30.3 PER, 59.3 TS%, .288 WS/48, 11.2 BPM (8.5 OBPM, 2.8 DBPM)
Jokic (20-25): [B]31.6, 66.3 TS%, .301 WS/48, 13 BPM (9 OBPM, 4 DBPM) [/B]
GoatJokic straight raw-dogging MJ :roll:
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MJ (88-93): 30.3 PER, 59.3 TS%, .288 WS/48, 11.2 BPM (8.5 OBPM, 2.8 DBPM)
Jokic (20-25): [B]31.6, 66.3 TS%, .301 WS/48, 13 BPM (9 OBPM, 4 DBPM) [/B]
GoatJokic straight raw-dogging MJ :roll:
Embarrassing for the so called "GOAT" at his peak.
This is a disingenuous way to judge basketball players. This isn't baseball where player X has 12 WAR and the other player has 10 so therefore player X is better.
Ball doesn't work that way. Jokic is likely not better than Duncan at his peak, let alone Jordan or Lebron.
[QUOTE=Carbine;14955753]This is a disingenuous way to judge basketball players. This isn't baseball where player X has 12 WAR and the other player has 10 so therefore player X is better.
Ball doesn't work that way. Jokic is likely not better than Duncan at his peak, let alone Jordan or Lebron.[/QUOTE]
Jokic is impactful as much if not more than those guys. He has never played with better talent than those guys you have listed
More desperation. Yawwwwwwwn. Jordan was better at winning.
He definitely played with better talent than '03 Duncan.
When Jokic and the Nuggets won, he had one of the best #2 options in playoff basketball of the last 20 years and #3 through about #6 was very competent as well.
Duncan conversely had one of the worst #2 options ever so the whole "playing with better talent" thing doesn't add up here.
Anyways that "winning" argument is not really one you want to stand to battle with when you're trying to put Jokic on the pedestal. He is not without his playoff failures for sure. Cast or no cast, just basing it off his own personal performances.
Lets forget the championships. How many 50 win playoff teams did MJ beat during that time? I wonder if MJ can possibly beat the legendary number Jokic has beaten (1).
[QUOTE=Axe;14955782]Let's not forget that jordan has a lower PER than him too.[/QUOTE]
Typical low IQ post. I guess he wasn't able to read the OP. :lol
Someone gay is still up this late bleeding because he's not wearing tampons yet. :sleeping
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14955741]MJ (88-93): 30.3 PER, 59.3 TS%, .288 WS/48, 11.2 BPM (8.5 OBPM, 2.8 DBPM)
Jokic (20-25): [B]31.6, 66.3 TS%, .301 WS/48, 13 BPM (9 OBPM, 4 DBPM) [/B]
GoatJokic straight raw-dogging MJ :roll:[/QUOTE]
Today's game has record league-wide PPG and ORTG due to unprecedented advantages for the offensive player, and these advantages are exploited the most by the best players, so the best players in today's era have bigger advantages over the average player (better advanced stats) than the best players had in previous eras, where players didn't have as many things to exploit compared to today's spaced-out, hands-off, open-paint, beginner format.
[QUOTE=3ba11;14955799]Today's game has record league-wide PPG and ORTG due to unprecedented advantages for the offensive player, and these advantages are exploited the most by the best players, so the best players in today's era have bigger advantages over the average player (better advanced stats) than the best players had in previous eras, where players didn't have as many things to exploit compared to today's spaced-out, hands-off, open-paint, beginner format.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. Which is why people that don't understand the nuances of the game think stats are the end-all-be-all, but they're incapable of putting them in proper context. Jordan was a slightly better offensive player than Jokic, and he blew him out of the water defensively.
The truth sure hurts some people. Especially the notoriously dumb Axe. :confusedshrug:
[QUOTE=3ba11;14955799]Today's game has record league-wide PPG and ORTG due to unprecedented advantages for the offensive player, and these advantages are exploited the most by the best players, so the best players in today's era have bigger advantages over the average player (better advanced stats) than the best players had in previous eras, where players didn't have as many things to exploit compared to today's spaced-out, hands-off, open-paint, beginner format.[/QUOTE]
1-9[url=https://i.ibb.co/LRYVhvB/IMG-20240928-122514.jpg].[/url]
[QUOTE=Axe;14955806]1-9[url=https://i.ibb.co/LRYVhvB/IMG-20240928-122514.jpg].[/url][/QUOTE]
Lebron, Durant, Giannis, Jokic and Curry were all lottery for a few years to start their career, so MJ was going to go "1-9" regardless of the musical-chair winner that happened to be around when the he entered his prime.
Ultimately, teammates grew massively and nearly beat a dynasty in 89' before Phil arrived.. So Phil simply inherited a skyrocketing team that was on the cusp of the Finals and led by the GOAT, who was already growing everyone massively due to his off-guard/off-ball skillset.
Jokic at his peak is as good as anyone who has played in the NBA. It's that obvious. He could've won 4 MVPs in a row and is on pace to win again this year.
[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14955831]Jokic at his peak is as good as anyone who has played in the NBA. It's that obvious. He could've won 4 MVPs in a row and is on pace to win again this year.[/QUOTE]
That's just not true, and is a product of recency bias. In crunch time, Murray's been the go-to guy to bail the team out in close playoff games. Jokic is most definitely top three in the NBA currently, but he has holes in his game that you guys overlook.