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Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
I know this forum is consumed with Wade haters, and agendas (mainly Kobe / LeBron stans)
But I was wondering how do people rank the top ten SGs of all-time, and where does Wade stand up in the echelon of the greats at the position?
He's easily one of the best players at the position I've ever seen of all-time, has a great resume, some amazing playoff / Finals performances, and some MVP caliber seasons.
But so much of his game / production can be attributed to rule changes, tied directly to officials and their whistles (2006 Finals) ... and then his evolution post 2011 of playing for whistles and flops instead of buckets was kind of off putting.
He's obviously behind #1) Jordan and #2) Kobe. I have a hard time ranking him historically over Jerry West.
But he's in battle with Drexler, and Iverson for me ... I have trouble deciding between these three SGs in terms of their historical rank.
I want to hear opinions.
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
You are right about the agendas here, most people selectively have the memory of a goldfish when it comes to wade. The fact of the matter is that wade always comes through in the playoffs, and he came up big both times he had a shot in the finals. Last year he was not healthy but he was still an amazing second option. Third best shooting guard of all time.
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
i'd rank him just slightly above eddie jones
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
I think he's right there w/ Jerry West at #3. Only Kobe and MJ have better career resumes.
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]I think he's right there w/ Jerry West at #3. Only Kobe and MJ have better career resumes.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much how I feel.
If LeBron didn't no show 2011 Finals, Wade would've easily wrapped up his 2x FMVP and I think I would put him at number 3 SG spot all-time.
That would be:
2x FMVP
3x NBA Champ
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
lower than Ray Allen :cheers: :cheers: :banana:
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
I think if Wade maintains an elite level of play through the Playoffs, he can still win a FMVP.
Currently, in my opinion, he's 3rd.
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
you guys are way overrating him... he sucks. if it wasnt for lebron and shaq he would have 0 championships and no one would even know who he is.
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
My friend's favorite player is AI. He texted me last year and asked me if Wade had passed Iverson...I told him (as he had already previously agreed) Wade is a better player than AI...and I told him he'd quite easily passed Iverson, historically. He was sad because he agreed.
I don't see how Iverson could rank over Wade or (at least historically, but really in general) over Drexler. Wade is better than Drexler and all-time he should also be higher, by this point. Tho I'd be open to hearing why someone would think otherwise.
1. MJ
2. Kobe
3. Logo
4. Wade
5. Drexler
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
[QUOTE=StateOfMind12]
He is pretty much in his own little island at #4.[/QUOTE]
I think Drexler's resume and game stacks up. I prefer Wade, but Drexler has a case. You don't think so ?
Iverson also seemed to play in a tougher defensive era, as a smaller player at the position and arguably did more with less than Wade has done.
You could make the case Iverson got more of his points off buckets than the post 2006 rule changes and their tremendous gifts of free-throws.
I think it's an interesting discussion between Wade, Iverson, Drexler, and West for the #3 - #6 spot.
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
[QUOTE=StateOfMind12]He is #4 at the moment and it will stay that way.
There is nobody really that you could argue over him but at the same time there isn't much of an argument that Wade should be above either West, Kobe, or MJ.
He is pretty much in his own little island at #4.[/QUOTE]
Don't neg anonymously, you lame.
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
If it wasn't for Lebron he would've had 2 FMVP, I think he's the 3rd best SG ever.
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
[QUOTE=LongLiveTheKing]If it wasn't for Lebron he would've had 2 FMVP, I think he's the 3rd best SG ever.[/QUOTE]
If it wasnt for Lebron he wouldnt even have that championship :confusedshrug:
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
[QUOTE=StateOfMind12]I've never negged you because you are one of the few posters I actually take seriously on this site and have a legit discussion with. I can't say the same for most though.[/QUOTE]
No I wasn't insinuating it was you ... I've taken you seriously ever since my come back and you stopped the trolling on the RG account.
But there is a SLEW of newbies that are trying to take shots at me, for reasons I can't really understand.
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
SG
1. Michael Jordan - #1
2. Kobe Bryant - #8
3. Jerry West - #14
[B]4. Dwyane Wade - #29[/B]
5. Clyde Drexler - #34
6. Allen Iverson - #36
7. George Gervin - #48
8. Ray Allen - #54
9. Sam Jones - #55
10. Reggie Miller - #60
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
People are irrational here so I find myself defending him time after time on this website.
Here are some facts I've noticed about wade. During his athletic prime, the guy was an absolute beast. Other stars have had their game effected by great defenses but I have noticed that wade always does his thing and shines against tough defenses that other stars are limited by. I have noticed the celtic defense was able to slow down both kobe and lebron, wade ripped right through them and was able to get his shots off efficiently. Number two, wade is an extremely productive player, you can run your entire offense through him and he will not only score during crunch time but he will distribute and make plays for the entire team. Extremely productive player on defense too because of his ability to turn up the pressure with the help defense. We have all seen the crunch time steals and blocks.
Stylistically people always compare kobe to mj because of the mid-range shooting but if you ask me wade is far more similar to young MJ. It is obvious that he spent a lot of time watching and learning from MJ's slashing style and he clearly succeeded at it because his ability to get to the rim is the best the league has ever seen.
Another easy to overlook fact is the way he went toe to toe with lebron for all of lebron's prime. How many nba greats all time would be able to make this claim? Even when they joined up on the same team they were inseperable untill wade's knee started failing him.
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
[QUOTE=selrahc]you guys are way overrating him... he sucks. if it wasnt for lebron and shaq he would have 0 championships and no one would even know who he is.[/QUOTE]
:applause: I hate to say this but...
YOU'RE RIGHT :kobe:
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
I have him 4th. Few more good seasons and padding his resume and career statistics and he could move up to 3rd.
Drexler has no case over him. He wasn't as good, he crumbled during big moments, and he wasn't as good a scorer as Wade. Nor did he maintain a high level of play as long as Wade did. I'd take Gervin over Drexler.
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
In 2008... ESPN did not even have him among the top 10 SGs
[url]http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-greatestsgs[/url]
I'm not sure what you think he accomplished since then that would dramatically change that
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
[QUOTE=Money 23]I've been getting negged anonymously like crazy from some soft [()]s too
:oldlol:[/QUOTE]
You got negged by Stateofmind btw. We both did.
Every other post on this forum reads of a mental patient who just got access to a computer.
Wade and West are interchangeable. Deal w/ it nerd ragers. :oldlol:
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
Jerry west was before our time but lets be real here. Ask yourself this. If jerry west played on the same team as lebron would people give him 1a/1b status? Think about that.
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
[QUOTE=StateOfMind12]I'm sure putting up 3 dominant seasons in a row after that would not change any perspective.
:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
Pretty low standards for "dominant". :confusedshrug:
008-09 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2008-09 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2009-10 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2009-10 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2010-11 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2011-12 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
[QUOTE=red1]Jerry west was before our time but lets be real here. Ask yourself this. If jerry west played on the same team as lebron would people give him 1a/1b status? Think about that.[/QUOTE]
West's jumpshot was wet. Dirk Nowitzki 2011 run wet. I haven't thought Wade was Lebron's 1B since 2011 tbh.
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
[QUOTE=StateOfMind12]Sorry buddy, I didn't neg him. I usually rep him when I get the chance but I had to spread so I negged clowns like yourself.
Why would I neg one of the few posters I take seriously on here?[/QUOTE]
What in that post warranted a neg? Quit being a bitch hiding anonymously.
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
[QUOTE=red1]Jerry west was before our time but lets be real here. Ask yourself this. If jerry west played on the same team as lebron would people give him 1a/1b status? Think about that.[/QUOTE]
You should have ended at "before our time".
He was in an era with inferior training knowledge, dieting, etc. So dropping him in today's time to see how he would fare is not entirely fair. Who knows how good the Logo could have been with an HGH jaw..
A player should simply be measured in how they stacked up against and performed within the rest of the league in their day.
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
[QUOTE=Yao Ming's Foot]Pretty low standards for "dominant". :confusedshrug:
008-09 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2008-09 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2009-10 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2009-10 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2010-11 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2011-12 NBA All-NBA (3rd)[/QUOTE]
He should have been on the first team in 2010-2011 as well. Not his fault people that vote are stupid.
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
I was hoping that RG got banned permanently. Guess not though.
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
[QUOTE=red1]Jerry west was before our time but lets be real here. Ask yourself this. If jerry west played on the same team as lebron would people give him 1a/1b status? Think about that.[/QUOTE]
The most clutch player in NBA history would be 1a in the playoffs if Lebron was on his team...
Jerry West is firmly #3, Wade isn't touching him, era doesn't even matter - Outside of a 2-3 year stretch of being neck and neck Wade is simply not as good a player as West - his prime was just as potent but it was much shorter than West's. If West played with Lebron he'd be just as good as when he was playing along side Baylor in the 60's w/o question, and he'd be better than this current version of Wade. He'd be dominating playoffs with virtually unrivaled elevation of his game particularly if Lebron slips as in 2011. If you think West was lesser because of his era than you don't understand Jerry, or basketball history in general and you shouldn't be commenting on either subject. West is the 3rd greatest and 3rd best shooting guard in NBA history, and he's probably the best combo 1 and 2 in NBA history because he also proved to be a league leading point guard at the end of his career. Something I don't think Wade can do.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPHFt3PljyA[/url]
[url]http://youtu.be/OEzwR1a8KuA[/url]
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
[QUOTE=HardwoodLegend]You should have ended at "before our time".
He was in an era with inferior training knowledge, dieting, etc. So dropping him in today's time to see how he would fare is not entirely fair. Who knows how good the Logo could have been with an HGH jaw..
A player should simply be measured in how they stacked up against and performed within the rest of the league in their day.[/QUOTE]
Career-wise yeah it is very debatable but when you look at who played at the highest level it would look something like
1. Jordan
2. Kobe
3. Wade
4. Mcgrady
With jerry west coming after a couple of other guys. Even Iverson, Drexler, and RayRay probably reached a higher level. Did they have an advantage because of the fact that they came in a more favourable era? Yeah but that doesn't change any of the other facts. This is why it is futile ranking players that came before the 80s. 80s onwards - any player can be directly compared. Bird and Magic would ball in this era to the same extent but I don't think the same can be said for many of the players that came before
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
[QUOTE=Money 23]Pretty much how I feel.
If LeBron didn't no show 2011 Finals, Wade would've easily wrapped up his 2x FMVP and I think I would put him at number 3 SG spot all-time.
That would be:
2x FMVP
3x NBA Champ[/QUOTE]
Agreed.
Wade is #3 behind Kobe and MJ.
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]SG
1. Michael Jordan - #1
2. Kobe Bryant - #8
3. Jerry West - #14
[B]4. Dwyane Wade - #29[/B]
5. Clyde Drexler - #34
6. Allen Iverson - #36
7. George Gervin - #48
8. Ray Allen - #54
9. Sam Jones - #55
10. Reggie Miller - #60[/QUOTE]
Really thorough ranking, will rep when I can.
[quote=kuniva_dAMIGHTy]You got negged by Stateofmind btw. We both did.[/quote]
I've been getting negged like crazy, and no one has the balls to admit who they were. haha
[quote=red1]People are irrational here so I find myself defending him time after time on this website. Here are some facts I've noticed about wade. During his athletic prime, the guy was an absolute beast. Other stars have had their game effected by great defenses but I have noticed that wade always does his thing and shines against tough defenses that other stars are limited by. I have noticed the celtic defense was able to slow down both kobe and lebron, wade ripped right through them and was able to get his shots off efficiently. Number two, wade is an extremely productive player, you can run your entire offense through him and he will not only score during crunch time but he will distribute and make plays for the entire team. Extremely productive player on defense too because of his ability to turn up the pressure with the help defense. We have all seen the crunch time steals and blocks.
Another easy to overlook fact is the way he went toe to toe with lebron for all of lebron's prime. How many nba greats all time would be able to make this claim? Even when they joined up on the same team they were inseperable untill wade's knee started failing him.[/quote]
Agreed, fantastic post.
[quote=red1]Stylistically people always compare kobe to mj because of the mid-range shooting but if you ask me wade is far more similar to young MJ. It is obvious that he spent a lot of time watching and learning from MJ's slashing style and he clearly succeeded at it because his ability to get to the rim is the best the league has ever seen.[/quote]
Wade is similar to early MJ, growing up in Chicago it's obvious to see the influence.
But think about the peak version of MJ (90 - 93), he was essentially the best of Wade and Kobe combined. He had the speed, quickness, and relentless attacking ability of Wade. But an even better finisher. And had the skill, footwork, and wet jumper of Kobe.
Both these players, arguably the 2nd and 3rd greatest SGs of all-time are essentially the two major halves of peak MJ's game.
Unbelievable.
[quote=Kews1]If it wasnt for Lebron he wouldnt even have that championship[/quote]
If LeBron didn't play Casper in the 2011 Finals, Wade would've got that 2nd chip and a 2nd FMVP.
Wade was just as good as LeBron in 2011. And was a competitor to LeBron, even in his absolute peak. Don't play yourself, kid.
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]The most clutch player in NBA history would be 1a in the playoffs if Lebron was on his team...
Jerry West is firmly #3, Wade isn't touching him, era doesn't even matter - Outside of a 2-3 year stretch of being neck and neck Wade is simply not as good a player as West - his prime was just as potent but it was much shorter than West's. If West played with Lebron he'd be just as good as when he was playing along side Baylor in the 60's w/o question, and he'd be better than this current version of Wade. He'd be dominating playoffs with virtually unrivaled elevation of his game particularly if Lebron slips as in 2011. If you think West was lesser because of his era than you don't understand Jerry, or basketball history in general and you shouldn't be commenting on either subject. West is the 3rd greatest and 3rd best shooting guard in NBA history, and he's probably the best combo 1 and 2 in NBA history because he also proved to be a league leading point guard at the end of his career. Something I don't think Wade can do.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPHFt3PljyA[/url]
[url]http://youtu.be/OEzwR1a8KuA[/url][/QUOTE]
I admit that he came before our era and the only knowledge I have on the dude is the stats, awards, and highlights but common sense alone tells you that the players today are stronger and faster and thus have a huge advantage over those that came before.
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
[QUOTE=Money 23]
If LeBron didn't play Casper in the 2011 Finals, Wade would've got that 2nd chip and a 2nd FMVP.
Wade was just as good as LeBron in 2011. And was a competitor to LeBron, even in his absolute peak. Don't play yourself, kid.[/QUOTE]
Yea but if Lebron didnt play "Casper" than you have to obviously assume he would of played well, which means that he would more likely than not won the FMVP and not D-wade. Your point reflects worse on D-Wade because it actually enforces the fact that he needs Lebron to be Lebron in order to win and he cant do it without him? :confusedshrug:
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
[QUOTE=Kews1]Yea but if Lebron didnt play "Casper" than you have to obviously assume he would of played well, which means that he would more likely than not won the FMVP and not D-wade.[/quote]
Clearly thou art trolling.
All the Heat needed was LeBron to play closer to his averages. He didn't even have to hit them for the Heat to have won that series.
They just needed him to play slightly better than the effort and performances he was putting up.
Wade was easily the best player in that series. He was amazing, in multiple games.
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
[QUOTE=Money 23]
But think about the peak version of MJ (90 - 93), he was essentially the best of Wade and Kobe combined. He had the speed, quickness, and relentless attacking ability of Wade. But an even better finisher. And had the skill, footwork, and wet jumper of Kobe.
Both these players, arguably the 2nd and 3rd greatest SGs of all-time are essentially the two major halves of peak MJ's game.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah young MJ really did have the best aspect of both wade and kobe on offense. He was the GOAT even before he ever won.
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
[QUOTE=Kews1]Yea but if Lebron didnt play "Casper" than you have to obviously assume he would of played well, which means that he would more likely than not won the FMVP and not D-wade. Your point reflects worse on D-Wade because it actually enforces the fact that he needs Lebron to be Lebron in order to win and he cant do it without him? :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
Stop posting mang, you are wrong on both counts.
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
[QUOTE=HardwoodLegend]You should have ended at "before our time".
He was in an era with [B]inferior training knowledge[/B], dieting, etc. So dropping him in today's time to see how he would fare is not entirely fair. Who knows how good the Logo could have been with an HGH jaw..
A player should simply be measured in how they stacked up against and performed within the rest of the league in their day.[/QUOTE]
What you said is a back hand compliment whether you intended it to be or not.
First off, w/o HGH prime Logo wearing chucks is better than almost anyone playing today so you shouldn't even need to handicap your judgement of him like that - it's clear as day when u watch West in action that there is nothing about his game that would be ineffective today - he's all-time talent. If you handicap him to his era than it sounds almost as silly as someone trying to handicap and apologize for MJ "it's not fair to compare MJ to today's players cause of his era"... with genuine talent era goes out the door - you could put West, Larry Bird, MJ or any other all-time player from a past era in today's game or any game with a time machine and i'd bet money they aren't going to do worse just because a bunch of meatheats today abuse HGH. Same goes for all time players playing today - they will adjust to past rules etc. A great player will immediately adapt to a slightly different game if it is necessary at all.
Second off, you need to change your philosophy on life in general if you believe past automatically must be assumed as inferior... that's not the way the cookie crumbles for humans and how they train, the things that have had leaps and bounds are our technology not necessarily our abilities to train and refine ourselves at a particular task (like say, playing defense / scoring). If you knew anything about Jerry West you'd know nobody trained harder or more religiously than him - he was a total perfectionist, the Kobe of his era, and the things he was doing while practicing I'd bet money were not drastically different let alone inferior to what great players in the league are doing today... In fact great players in the league today like Kobe learned a heck of a lot about training directly from West who has been there and done it all already.
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
[QUOTE=red1]People are irrational here so I find myself defending him time after time on this website.
Here are some facts I've noticed about wade. During his athletic prime, the guy was an absolute beast. [B]Other stars have had their game effected by great defenses but I have noticed that wade always does his thing and shines against tough defenses that other stars are limited by. I have noticed the celtic defense was able to slow down both kobe and lebron, wade ripped right through them and was able to get his shots off efficiently.[/B] Number two, wade is an extremely productive player, you can run your entire offense through him and he will not only score during crunch time but he will distribute and make plays for the entire team. Extremely productive player on defense too because of his ability to turn up the pressure with the help defense. We have all seen the crunch time steals and blocks.
Stylistically people always compare kobe to mj because of the mid-range shooting but if you ask me wade is far more similar to young MJ. It is obvious that he spent a lot of time watching and learning from MJ's slashing style and he clearly succeeded at it because his ability to get to the rim is the best the league has ever seen.
Another easy to overlook fact is the way he went toe to toe with lebron for all of lebron's prime. How many nba greats all time would be able to make this claim? Even when they joined up on the same team they were inseperable untill wade's knee started failing him.[/QUOTE]
Everything in this post, especially the bolded is true, good post.
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
[QUOTE=Young X]Everything in this post, especially the bolded is true, good post.[/QUOTE]
I still remember 2010 Wade sodomizing that AMAZING defense that severely limited Kobe, and annoyed LeBron from time to time.
He had that one game where he dropped what? 46 or 48 points in 3 quarters? And then the whole 4th quarter the Celtics sent three defenders at him to force him to give the ball up?
Wade's next best player that season was second year vet and totally inconsistent and stupid Michael Beasley? :oldlol:
Poor guy. Wade's roster from 2008 - 2010 is worse than anything Kobe or LeBron had to deal with.
[QUOTE=red1]Career-wise yeah it is very debatable but when you look at who played at the highest level it would look something like
1. Jordan
2. Kobe
3. Wade
4. Mcgrady
With jerry west coming after a couple of other guys. Even Iverson, Drexler, and RayRay probably reached a higher level. Did they have an advantage because of the fact that they came in a more favourable era? Yeah but that doesn't change any of the other facts. This is why it is futile ranking players that came before the 80s. 80s onwards - any player can be directly compared. Bird and Magic would ball in this era to the same extent but I don't think the same can be said for many of the players that came before[/QUOTE]
Totally agree on SG peak GAMES as ranked.
And also agree that anything pre 1979 / 1980 was the foundation building for modern basketball, so judging even historical players that were amazing in their era is a difficult thing to do because the game was still evolving to it's peak potential.
That's why I separate the founding stars of the game, from the post 1980 modernized game.
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Re: Wade's Historical Rank Among SGs
[QUOTE=Young X]Everything in this post, especially the bolded is true, good post.[/QUOTE]
'11 ECF vs the No. 1 Defense Chicago Bulls
Wade: 18.8 PPG/2.2 APG/4.0 TO/.405%FG/.200%3PT