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2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
Easy to see Cleveland would had won that series with Irving playing. And anything from Love would had been gravy. Warriors were way better this season, and they still lost. Not hard to see Cleveland should be celebrating back-to-back titles if they weren't relying on a backup PG to produce like a #2. The Warriors 15 title is biggest asterisk title of all-time. Just an all-out epic joke. What makes it even sadder is the league MVP getting outplayed by role players in the last two Finals. :oldlol: PATHETIC.
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
[IMG]http://i.giphy.com/888hCuypyqoF2.gif[/IMG]
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
true
healthy cavs = cavs win
injured cavs = cavs lose
no surprise.
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
Draymond's game 5 suspension completely discredits Cavs' *16 Title.
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
[QUOTE=Real14]Draymond's game 5 suspension completely discredits Cavs' *16 Title.[/QUOTE]
Nope.
41 points and an L w/ Draymond on the court
41 points and an L w/ Draymond not on the court
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
[QUOTE=DirkNowitzki41]true
healthy cavs = cavs win
injured cavs = cavs lose
no surprise.[/QUOTE]
and dude, posters like plowking here think GSW would have still won last year lol
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
[QUOTE=Boogaboog]Nope.
41 points and an L w/ Draymond on the court
41 points and an L w/ Draymond not on the court[/QUOTE]
Nope.
Bogut was injured and Iggy was hurt.
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
The Cavaliers were down 3-1. A healthy Curry would have closed the series.
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
[QUOTE=Real14]Nope.
Bogut was injured and Iggy was hurt.[/QUOTE]
As were Love and Irving, Cecil.
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]Easy to see Cleveland would had won that series with Irving playing. And anything from Love would had been gravy. Warriors were way better this season, and they still lost. Not hard to see Cleveland should be celebrating back-to-back titles if they weren't relying on a backup PG to produce like a #2. The Warriors 15 title is biggest asterisk title of all-time. Just an all-out epic joke. What makes it even sadder is the league MVP getting outplayed by role players in the last two Finals. :oldlol: PATHETIC.[/QUOTE]
This is what happens with 1 year era championships.
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
[QUOTE=Xoush]The Cavaliers were down 3-1. A healthy Curry would have closed the series.[/QUOTE]
pathetic excuse for a MVP player that played in finals and got owned
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
[QUOTE=Real14]Nope.
Bogut was injured and Iggy was hurt.[/QUOTE]
Bogut was a net negative throughout the series. Warriors were actually better without him. Iggy did not miss any time because of his back and played heavy minutes in game 7. While a very important one, he's still a bench player and his injury wasn't significant enough to say it was the reason golden state lost.
Healthy cavs have always been a step above golden state.
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
The Cavs won in the last minute of the 7th game. It really could have gone either way. Steph could have easily made one three that would have sealed it. No one knew Harrison Barnes would miss every single wide open shot he took for the last three games. The Cavs couldn't have planned for that. Who knows what would have happened if Dray played in Game 5. That would have been the easiest game for them to win. They felt no pressure -- They were not going to leave Cleveland with a win and they had the weight of the world on their shoulders in Game 7. Neither team owns the other.
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
Bogut, Iggy (FMVP, locked lebron down to 39%) where injured. 2016 Cavs title has the biggest asterisk ever
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
[QUOTE=Da_Realist]The Cavs won in the last minute of the 7th game. It really could have gone either way. Steph could have easily made one three that would have sealed it. No one knew Harrison Barnes would miss every single wide open shot he took for the last three games. The Cavs couldn't have planned for that. Who knows what would have happened if Dray played in Game 5. That would have been the easiest game for them to win. They felt no pressure -- They were not going to leave Cleveland with a win and they had the weight of the world on their shoulders in Game 7. Neither team owns the other.[/QUOTE]
Draymond greens presence was not stopping a team that had two players go for 41, especially when one was shooting 70 percent from the field. It was also. 15 point loss. Draymond didn't play but klay Thompsons game more than made up for it. Had dray played that would have been less shots for klay. Also dray played the next game and the cavs won by only one less point.
The cavs lost the first two games of the series because golden state had a mental edge on them. After losing to them while injured in the finals and during g the season when Kyrie was still working himself back into shape, the cavs were unsure of themselves when playing golden state and it showed the first two games where they looked nothing like the team that steamrolled it's way through the playoffs.
After first quarter gsme 3 the cavs regained that confidence and started playing more like themselves. The result was a lopsided rest of the series where the cavs led for all but 14 minutes in games 3,5,6 and won 4 of the last 5 games . The series wasn't really close after games 1 and 2
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
[QUOTE=Gileraracer]Bogut, Iggy (FMVP, locked lebron down to 39%) where injured. 2016 Cavs title has the biggest asterisk ever[/QUOTE]
Bogut was a net negative=warriors were outscored when be played
Lebron shot 39 percent due to no love and Irving. Lebron abused Iggy and everyone this year
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
A win is a win, the Cavs deserve 2016 title, and the Warriors deserved 2015 title.
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
[QUOTE=moongaze]Draymond greens presence was not stopping a team that had two players go for 41, especially when one was shooting 70 percent from the field. It was also. 15 point loss. Draymond didn't play but klay Thompsons game more than made up for it. Had dray played that would have been less shots for klay. Also dray played the next game and the cavs won by only one less point.
The cavs lost the first two games of the series because golden state had a mental edge on them. After losing to them while injured in the finals and during g the season when Kyrie was still working himself back into shape, the cavs were unsure of themselves when playing golden state and it showed the first two games where they looked nothing like the team that steamrolled it's way through the playoffs.
After first quarter gsme 3 the cavs regained that confidence and started playing more like themselves. The result was a lopsided rest of the series where the cavs led for all but 14 minutes in games 3,5,6 and won 4 of the last 5 games . The series wasn't really close after games 1 and 2[/QUOTE]
You don't know that. Maybe both players don't go for 41 if Draymond played game 5. Maybe he makes a critical block or steal that stops momentum. There are a lot of conditionals to think about in a series decided in the last minute of Game 7. It could have gone either way. Maybe Bogut makes one block that starts a fast break that gives GSW enough of a cushion to pull away. Maybe Iggy goes for the dunk and draws a foul and 2 free throws instead of going for the layup that Lebron blocked if his back was healthy. Neither one of these teams are clearly better than the other.
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
[QUOTE=moongaze]Bogut was a net negative=warriors were outscored when be played
Lebron shot 39 percent due to no love and Irving. Lebron abused Iggy and everyone this year[/QUOTE]
What did the analytics say about the possibility that Kevin Love would stay with Curry and force a huge miss that would seal the win in Game 7? Exactly. You can not predict how someone will impact a game. Bogut was injured and that hurt GSW regardless of what the numbers say. They named him a starter, after all. Some things can't be measured by numbers and then there is always the chance that someone will do something out of the norm. In most cases, it wouldn't matter but when two teams don't separate until the last minute of Game 7, everything matters.
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
Last years Warriors title is discredited
As well as this years Cavaliers title is discredited
We will have to wait till next season to see the rematch
The last times we have seen both squads meet up while healthy, Curry and Golden State have dominated though
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
[QUOTE=Da_Realist]You don't know that. Maybe both players don't go for 41 if Draymond played game 5. Maybe he makes a critical block or steal that stops momentum. There are a lot of conditionals to think about in a series decided in the last minute of Game 7. It could have gone either way. Maybe Bogut makes one block that starts a fast break that gives GSW enough of a cushion to pull away. Maybe Iggy goes for the dunk and draws a foul and 2 free throws instead of going for the layup that Lebron blocked if his back was healthy. Neither one of these teams are clearly better than the other.[/QUOTE]
You can't use the Green suspension as an excuse. That was a result of his own actions.
Iggy got injured, but Kyrie also got injured the same game. He was clearly limited in the 2nd half of game 6. Also, if he didn't get injured, he may even score more in game 7. So, these 2 cancels out.
Bogut was playing 12 minutes a game and he was a huge negative on the court when he was playing. Still, that injury cancels out with Love's concussion. Love missed 1 game and the effect of the concussion was clearly visible for 2-3 games. When it finally went out, he beasted in game 7.
So the injuries canceled out at the end.
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
[QUOTE=warriorfan]Last years Warriors title is discredited
As well as this years Cavaliers title is discredited
We will have to wait till next season to see the rematch
The last times we have seen both squads meet up while healthy, Curry and Golden State have dominated though[/QUOTE]
Last year is descredited, but not this year. Kyrie and Love's injuries this year cancel out the Iggy and Bogut injury. You can't say the same for last year.
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
[QUOTE=nba_55]You can't use the Green suspension as an excuse. That was a result of his own actions.
Iggy got injured, but Kyrie also got injured the same game. He was clearly limited in the 2nd half of game 6. Also, if he didn't get injured, he may even score more in game 7. So, these 2 cancels out.
Bogut was playing 12 minutes a game and he was a huge negative on the court when he was playing. Still, that injury cancels out with Love's concussion. Love missed 1 game and the effect of the concussion was clearly visible for 2-3 games. When it finally went out, he beasted.
So the injuries cancel out at the end.[/QUOTE]
Stop the excuses
Cavaliers were banged up last year
Golden State was banged up this year
Next season we will see the rematch we have all been waiting for
The last times Golden State has played Cavaliers while both teams have been fully healthy, Golden State has destroyed them
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
[QUOTE=warriorfan]Stop the excuses
Cavaliers were banged up last year
Golden State was banged up this year
Next season we will see the rematch we have all been waiting for
The last times Golden State has played Cavaliers while both teams have been fully healthy, Golden State has destroyed them[/QUOTE]
What excuses? Didn't Kyrie suffer an injury in game 6? Didn't Love get a concussion in game 2? These are facts.
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
[QUOTE=nba_55]What excuses? Didn't Kyrie suffer an injury in game 6? Didn't Love get a concussion in game 2? These are facts.[/QUOTE]
Cleveland had injuries last year
Golden State had injuries this year
Last time both teams faced each other while at 100%, Golden State beat them by 30+ points in Cleveland
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
[QUOTE=warriorfan]Cleveland had injuries last year
Golden State had injuries this year
Last time both teams faced each other while at 100%, Golden State beat them by 30+ points in Cleveland[/QUOTE]
Cleveland had injuries last year, Warriors didn't.
Warriors had injuries this year, Cleveland also had injuries this year. It canceled out this year.
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
[QUOTE=Da_Realist]You don't know that. Maybe both players don't go for 41 if Draymond played game 5. Maybe he makes a critical block or steal that stops momentum. There are a lot of conditionals to think about in a series decided in the last minute of Game 7. It could have gone either way. Maybe Bogut makes one block that starts a fast break that gives GSW enough of a cushion to pull away. Maybe Iggy goes for the dunk and draws a foul and 2 free throws instead of going for the layup that Lebron blocked if his back was healthy. Neither one of these teams are clearly better than the other.[/QUOTE]
For one, draymond was not guarding Kyrie much at all during the rest of the games and when he did Kyrie scored at will on him. So I'm not sure how his presence would have stopped Kyrie's game. We do know that lebron could score the same amount whether dray plays or not because he did so in game 6. Sure bogut can make one block that starts svfsdt break, but by going off the stats, golden state would have most likely been down more with him playing. I'm not sure what Iggy's back has too do with the fact that he chose to double pump a layup that jr Smith contested well. His back sure looked fine when he converted a layup in the pain against multiple cavs defenders to end the third quarter. His back sure looked fine playing 30+ minutes.
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
[QUOTE=nba_55]You can't use the Green suspension as an excuse. That was a result of his own actions.
Iggy got injured, but Kyrie also got injured the same game. He was clearly limited in the 2nd half of game 6. Also, if he didn't get injured, he may even score more in game 7. So, these 2 cancels out.
Bogut was playing 12 minutes a game and he was a huge negative on the court when he was playing. Still, that injury cancels out with Love's concussion. Love missed 1 game and the effect of the concussion was clearly visible for 2-3 games. When it finally went out, he beasted in game 7.
So the injuries canceled out at the end.[/QUOTE]
Bogut only playing 12 mpg doesn't take into account that his absence messed up GSW rotation. Plus he enabled them to play a certain way so they didn't overextend the small ball lineup. His absence limited GSW and forced them to play small ball more than they wanted to. Bogut only played half of game 5 and didn't play at all in games 6 and 7. It's unfair to say it wouldn't have mattered when Cleveland could have easily lost even under these circumstances.
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
[QUOTE=Da_Realist]Bogut only playing 12 mpg doesn't take into account that his absence messed up GSW rotation. Plus he enabled them to play a certain way so they didn't overextend the small ball lineup. His absence limited GSW and forced them to play small ball more than they wanted to. Bogut only played half of game 5 and didn't play at all in games 6 and 7. It's unfair to say it wouldn't have mattered when Cleveland could have easily lost even under these circumstances.[/QUOTE]
You never know what could have happened with Bogut out there. Cavs may have played even better with him out there (the stats/facts actually support this theory more than yours), but still that injury cancels out with Love's concussion. Love missed 1 game because of it and he looked affected because of that the whole series except for game 7. Warriors suffered injuries, but Cavs also did. In 2015, that wasn't the case. Cavs missed 2 starting 5 players, Shumpert was injured also and Warriors had no one even injured.
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
[QUOTE=Da_Realist]What did the analytics say about the possibility that Kevin Love would stay with Curry and force a huge miss that would seal the win in Game 7? Exactly. You can not predict how someone will impact a game. Bogut was injured and that hurt GSW regardless of what the numbers say. They named him a starter, after all. Some things can't be measured by numbers and then there is always the chance that someone will do something out of the norm. In most cases, it wouldn't matter but when two teams don't separate until the last minute of Game 7, everything matters.[/QUOTE]
Kevin love stayed with curry on ONE play. Does that mean he could have guarded curry for an entire quarter or game? No. I'm not sure how you can say that the bogut injury hurt golden state when stats for 5 games(plenty of time and evidence) shows that golden state was worse with him playing. Could he have made some nice plays , sure? Can Kevin love cause curry into a tough shot , sure? But can both players do so for an extended period of time? No. Statistics say otherwise and saying otherwise is without any basis.
Consider, also that the warriors made their comeback last year down 2-1 to the cavs AFTER benching bogut.
The warriors excuses are insignificant at best, especially compared to Clevelands in 2014-2015 finals
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
[QUOTE=Da_Realist]Bogut only playing 12 mpg doesn't take into account that his absence messed up GSW rotation. Plus he enabled them to play a certain way so they didn't overextend the small ball lineup. His absence limited GSW and forced them to play small ball more than they wanted to. Bogut only played half of game 5 and didn't play at all in games 6 and 7. It's unfair to say it wouldn't have mattered when Cleveland could have easily lost even under these circumstances.[/QUOTE]
What part of golden state being outscored when bogut played don't you get? You keep talking about how much of a factor this guy was while disregarding the statistics that actually show his worth in the series. At some point you have to stop hanging on to this weak excuse of bogut missing two and a half games. The guy actually helped the cavs more than he helped his own team.
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
[QUOTE=Da_Realist]The Cavs won in the last minute of the 7th game. It really could have gone either way. [B]Steph could have easily made one three that would have sealed it.[/B] No one knew Harrison Barnes would miss every single wide open shot he took for the last three games. The Cavs couldn't have planned for that. Who knows what would have happened if Dray played in Game 5. That would have been the easiest game for them to win. They felt no pressure -- They were not going to leave Cleveland with a win and they had the weight of the world on their shoulders in Game 7. Neither team owns the other.[/QUOTE]
But it's hard to make a well guarded 3 if you are choking
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
[QUOTE=moongaze]Kevin love stayed with curry on ONE play. Does that mean he could have guarded curry for an entire quarter or game? No. I'm not sure how you can say that the bogut injury hurt golden state when stats for 5 games(plenty of time and evidence) shows that golden state was worse with him playing. Could he have made some nice plays , sure? Can Kevin love cause curry into a tough shot , sure? But can both players do so for an extended period of time? No. Statistics say otherwise and saying otherwise is without any basis.
Consider, also that the warriors made their comeback last year down 2-1 to the cavs AFTER benching bogut.
The warriors excuses are insignificant at best, especially compared to Clevelands in 2014-2015 finals[/QUOTE]
That's the point. ONE play. That's all it would have taken to flip the series. Bogut or Dray or someone else could have made that ONE play to change the series had the circumstances been different. Dray could have made ONE play in game 5 to start a comeback run for GSW. It happens all the time. Bogut could have made ONE block or been just enough of a deterrent defensively to push GSW to a win in game 7. Cleveland won at the last minute over a shorthanded team the last 3 games. They may have won anyway or they could have lost. They could have lost game 7 anyway. Kyrie hit a big shot but Curry and Dray missed shots just like that beforehand. If they had knocked down ONE shot to send the crowd into a frenzy, they could have ridden the rest of the game on adrenaline and won that way. Draymond missed a wide open shot that he made all year long. Cleveland had nothing to do with him missing a wide open shot.
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
[QUOTE=moongaze]What part of golden state being outscored when bogut played don't you get? You keep talking about how much of a factor this guy was while disregarding the statistics that actually show his worth in the series. At some point you have to stop hanging on to this weak excuse of bogut missing two and a half games. The guy actually helped the cavs more than he helped his own team.[/QUOTE]
You aren't getting it because you don't want to get it. In the grand scheme of things, Bogut is nothing. Not a star. Nothing. But he does mean something to GSW beyond what is measured in the boxscore. He could have played enough so that the change of pace small ball could have been more effective. Maybe he snatches a couple of rebounds. We are only talking a minute difference that could have flipped the series. Cleveland wasn't unbeatable with or without Bogut.
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
[QUOTE=Da_Realist]That's the point. ONE play. That's all it would have taken to flip the series. Bogut or Dray or someone else could have made that ONE play to change the series had the circumstances been different. Dray could have made ONE play in game 5 to start a comeback run for GSW. It happens all the time. Bogut could have made ONE block or been just enough of a deterrent defensively to push GSW to a win in game 7. Cleveland won at the last minute over a shorthanded team the last 3 games. They may have won anyway or they could have lost. They could have lost game 7 anyway. Kyrie hit a big shot but Curry and Dray missed shots just like that beforehand. If they had knocked down ONE shot to send the crowd into a frenzy, they could have ridden the rest of the game on adrenaline and won that way. Draymond missed a wide open shot that he made all year long. Cleveland had nothing to do with him missing a wide open shot.[/QUOTE]
It's not about one play.its about the fact that for the 12 minutes he averaged,golden state was being outscored. So anything he would have done would have come in a losing fashion. Your argument is illogical and I think you know this. Lol at Cleveland playing a short handed team. The only player that missed significant time was bogut and he was a detriment to his team. How is this so hard for you to understand?
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
Injuries or not, the Warriors choked a 3-1 lead with HCA. And took them 6 games to beat the depleted Cavs last year.
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Re: 2016 Finals Win Completely Discredits Warriors' *15 Title
[QUOTE=moongaze]It's not about one play.its about the fact that for the 12 minutes he averaged,golden state was being outscored. So anything he would have done would have come in a losing fashion. Your argument is illogical and I think you know this. Lol at Cleveland playing a short handed team. The only player that missed significant time was bogut and he was a detriment to his team. How is this so hard for you to understand?[/QUOTE]
Cleveland did not stomp GSW by 15 points. They won almost on the last play of game 7. Therefore, the series could have been won by either team if only one or two things had changed. It was that close. Bogut doesn't need to be a huge factor for 12 mins a game. All he needed to do is be a difference on one or two plays and that would have been enough. Same with Dray. This is not hard to understand. You always want your team at full strength. When your 3rd best player is suspended for a game, and the series is won based on one shot, you realize that could have changed things. When a guy that has had some success defensively on Lebron gets hurt and clearly has some issues with his back, you realize that could have turned the tide. When you have a starter miss 2.5 games (all losses) then you realize he could have played a part in stemming the tide.
GSW led 3-1 when Bogut was available to play the whole game. How's the statistic? That's not to say Cleveland didn't deserve it and it doesn't mean they wouldn't have won anyway. But these things should be pointed out when you see that Cleveland outscored GSW by a grand total of 4 points over the course of the series. Cleveland was not unbeatable. They played inspired ball over the last 3 games, GSW had a couple of breaks go against them and Cleveland took advantage of them. GSW didn't field their full team since Game 4. If Cleveland had won in 5 or 6 games then it may not have mattered but since they won in the last minute of the last game, and they did most of their damage in the games where GSW were not playing at full strength, then it at least deserves to be mentioned if you are honest. It may not have made a difference but the series was so close we can't rule it out.