Discuss Wilt Chamberlain
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Discuss Wilt Chamberlain
Well, heres my post... I can't find the other thread.
[QUOTE=db23]LOL at the 1969 finals on youtube, can anyone watch this with a straight face and tell me this looks anything better than elite highschool ball?Looks like local ymca, check out the white guys drive 11 seconds in rofl, that bum wouldnt be sniffing a division 1 college these days yet he's getting 4th quarter time in the NBA finals, haha check out his free throw form then little skip as he misses rofl.Wilt looks like some freakshow with 5 feet long legs who put on a pair of shorts 8 sizes to small and accidently wondered on to an NBA court.Bill Russell?ROFL he looks like Ben Wallace with 30 pounds less muscle and a bad case of athritis, anyone who watches the 4th quarter and is impressed needs medical help.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWhRNU-59K0[/url][/QUOTE]
I was just in a huge argument about this. No one was there to agree with me. Where were you? This era of ball was WEAK. I said Jerry West wasn't athletic and this dude sent me a clip of Jerry West dribbling from half court and hitting an uncontested lay up. Then he laughed at me as if I had be done. He sent me other links where I realized that to crossover West had to turn his back to his defender first so he could switch hands wihtout losing the ball.
I dunno, some of my favorite facts about the 60's players who couldn't jump higher then me yet could hack today's nba. Please note: as crazy as it sounds these are all facts.
- Most of that era's players actually played with soccer balls
- the talent pool they came from was literally 1000's of times smaller
- the league was so bad defensively that a player could average 50 points, a triple double or 20 boards for a whole season
- Players didn't really know how to box out and rarely did, even on foul shots
- In 10 years from 1966 to 1976 the size of the league more then doubled from 9 to 24 teams allowing way more scrubs who had never once played at that level into the league to get beat up on by the pros
- At the same time as that expansion the ABA opened it's doors. 3 years later NBA owners voted 14-3 to let them merge cuz they knew they were getting crushed.
- Why? In 1976 when the merger happened 75% of the ABA players made the NBA sending many star's victims home
- of the 4 teams who merged the Spurs won division titles 5 of their first 6 years. The Nuggest were 1-3 games from the league's best record. The Nets who were the best team in the ABA were forced to sell their best player Dr. J and move the team due to the severe financial/draft limitations. Their other great player, Nate tiny Archibald broke his foot. The team still won 22 games.
- when the merger happened many stars stats plummeted... some from like, top five to out of the top 20 in many cats
- Elgin Baylor, a 6' 5" player averaged 35 and freaking 20 and 38/19 in back to back seasons. He was 6'5" and was one of the first players who could actually play, but he was 6'5". Thats almost a 40/20. Come on!
- one player had a 55 rebound game as well as many other 40+ 50+ games, as did a few other dominant players. In the past 25 years of basketball and more, there has not been a single game over 35 and only a handful close to it
- Jerry West at the 2 guard put up better numbers then Michael Jordan in his prime in the 90's, better then Lebron, better then Kobe in his prime, he was 6'2", could not jump, could shoot the lights out and D'ed up, but could barely dribble with his left hand... he was 6'2"
- While not playing basketball players did not spend time doing anything else but having sex with women and jumping. That's how Wilt had a 50" vert and planted his stilt in 20,000 pieces of trash... well u know, according to him.
Are there any others to add to the list? Which are your favorites? Every team averaging 3 guys on it's roster who couldn't even make the weak era NBA but were there cuz the ABA had a more competitive league? Jerry West putting up better numbers then Michael Jordan? Or a 6'5" guy's numbers actually approaching a freaking 40/20?
The stats were padded. The competition was weak. The ego's inflated. Its all obvious when you watch the footage of a finals game and wonder why there are no plays being run and people don't box out but still as I'm sure this thread has already seen there is some dude who's going to ignore all that above and argue till he's blue in the face that didn't matter. The player's leadership, tenacity and competitiveness would have made them much the same in today's game. But wait, I've saved the best fact for last.
Players would regularly smoke butts on the bench and at halftime!
The NBA, its cancertastic!
Bill Russell wouldn't be an all-star in today's game, probably not even a starter. Backup PF at best.
Wilt would still be a star center, but not nearly as dominant as he was.
Bob Pettit wouldn't be **** either.
It was a weak era, no doubt. Basketball hadn't even been around for very long, and African-Americans hadn't been fully integrated into it (see all the unathletic white guys. THe basketball infrastructure had not been established yet.
Ill post it again..., thats part 2 of the whole 4th quarter split up, watch the game, supposedly best two teams of the era, no BS stats etc, just watch them play, then tell me you are impressed.
LOL at the 1969 finals on youtube, can anyone watch this with a straight face and tell me this looks anything better than elite highschool ball?Looks like local ymca, check out the white guys drive 11 seconds in rofl, that bum wouldnt be sniffing a division 1 college these days yet he's getting 4th quarter time in the NBA finals, haha check out his free throw form then little skip as he misses (and this stiff scored 12 points in the previous quarter, against the "dominant" Wilt Chamberlain) rofl.Wilt looks like some freakshow with 5 feet long legs who put on a pair of shorts 8 sizes to small and accidently wondered on to an NBA court.Bill Russell?ROFL he looks like Ben Wallace with 30 pounds less muscle and a bad case of athritis, anyone who watches the 4th quarter and is impressed needs medical help.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWhRNU-59K0[/url]
[QUOTE=db23]Ill post it again...
LOL at the 1969 finals on youtube, can anyone watch this with a straight face and tell me this looks anything better than elite highschool ball?Looks like local ymca, check out the white guys drive 11 seconds in rofl, that bum wouldnt be sniffing a division 1 college these days yet he's getting 4th quarter time in the NBA finals, haha check out his free throw form then little skip as he misses rofl.Wilt looks like some freakshow with 5 feet long legs who put on a pair of shorts 8 sizes to small and accidently wondered on to an NBA court.Bill Russell?ROFL he looks like Ben Wallace with 30 pounds less muscle and a bad case of athritis, anyone who watches the 4th quarter and is impressed needs medical help.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWhRNU-59K0[/url][/QUOTE]
Do you know what happened? I just spent a wack of time in a thread with 0 support and a guy who thought West was more athletic then Magic and Bird.
[QUOTE=indiefan23]Do you know what happened? I just spent a wack of time in a thread with 0 support and a guy who thought West was more athletic then Magic and Bird.[/QUOTE]
Was this in the thread I started about Wilt?Or did it go in to a seperate thread, either way they both arnt there now.Nice summary by you though, cant really put up an argument against those points.
[QUOTE=A.M.G.]Bill Russell wouldn't be an all-star in today's game, probably not even a starter. Backup PF at best.
Wilt would still be a star center, but not nearly as dominant as he was.
Bob Pettit wouldn't be **** either.
It was a weak era, no doubt. Basketball hadn't even been around for very long, and African-Americans hadn't been fully integrated into it (see all the unathletic white guys. THe basketball infrastructure had not been established yet.[/QUOTE]
Yes I am stupid & took the bait.
Go read a book young man.(Suggestions : They Cleared The Lane: The NBA Black Pioneers by Ron Thomas) The NBA has been a majority Black/African American league since the 64-65 season:rolleyes: In fact I hope someone would post a photo of the 65/66 Celtics & compare them with the 86 Celtics. The 66 Celtics was far 'Blacker" than the '86 pasty White Celtics who had maybe four Black Players.:rolleyes:
AGAIN: The NBA has been a majority Black league since around 64/ 65.
I know you guys are simply trolling for a response,but I made this post for OTHER serious posters who are not sure of the great legacy & Players of the '60's who are just as/or more capable/talented as today's player.
1)Elvin Hayes was an NBA all star in the 60's, 70's & 80's. (The 80's which is considered the leagues 'Golden Age')
2)Wes Unseld was a top three rebounder in the League in the 60's, 70's & 80's.
3)Kareem was 'technically' an all star in the 60's,70's & 80's as well.
Someone please find the team photo of the mid 60's Celtics & compare them with the '86 Celtics & see who had 'unathletic White guys'.
dude of COURSE the white guy with the early drive looks un-athletic. Thats Don Nelson. You know, the head coach of the Warriors. He was NEVER known as a super athletic guy. He was a hustle player.
Mark Madsen looks like ass driving the ball too ya know.
25-30ppg & 15-20 rebounds is definitely not over exaggerating. Speed, Strength, his ability to "adapt"..lol common.
[QUOTE=A.M.G.]Bill Russell wouldn't be an all-star in today's game, probably not even a starter. Backup PF at best.
Wilt would still be a star center, but not nearly as dominant as he was.
Bob Pettit wouldn't be **** either.
It was a weak era, no doubt. Basketball hadn't even been around for very long, and African-Americans hadn't been fully integrated into it (see all the unathletic white guys. THe basketball infrastructure had not been established yet.[/QUOTE]
With the possible exception of D Howard and Yao Russ would be a starting C in todays weak C day. I look at the Sorry C in todays game most are so soft you got players like Tony parker going to the basket with no fear of a hard foul. You got big stiff C shooting 3 pointers instead of banging in the paint. I laugh when people say Russ and Wilt counldn't play today yao is 7'6 and he shoots fade aways Shaq is like 40 and he still might be the best C in the league
[QUOTE]Yes I am stupid & took the bait.
Go read a book young man.(Suggestions : They Cleared The Lane: The NBA Black Pioneers by Ron Thomas) The NBA has been a majority Black/African American league since the 64-65 season In fact I hope someone would post a photo of the 65/66 Celtics & compare them with the 86 Celtics. The 66 Celtics was far 'Blacker" than the '86 pasty White Celtics who had maybe four Black Players.
AGAIN: The NBA has been a majority Black league since around 64/ 65.
I know you guys are simply trolling for a response,but I made this post for OTHER serious posters who are not sure of the great legacy & Players of the '60's who are just as/or more capable/talented as today's player.
1)Elvin Hayes was an NBA all star in the 60's, 70's & 80's. (The 80's which is considered the leagues 'Golden Age')
2)Wes Unseld was a top three rebounder in the League in the 60's, 70's & 80's.
3)Kareem was 'technically' an all star in the 60's,70's & 80's as well.
Someone please find the team photo of the mid 60's Celtics & compare them with the '86 Celtics & see who had 'unathletic White guys'.[/QUOTE]
32jazz, you're correct. But, you see, some people choose to believe things that they saw nowhere, read nowhere (they hardly read at all, after all), never proved, but, because they weren't alive in that era, they found a good excuse to imply that they didn't miss anything serious. Some of them may believe that in 1950's you were considered a super athlete if you had a 20-inch vertical and that today's WNBA players would make a 60's roster. There's nothing to respond to these people without being in danger of having your IQ dropped by a lot.
And yes, you're also correct about the Celtics:
[url]http://images.google.gr/imgres?imgurl=http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nba/boston/1986Celtics.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nba/boston/celticschamps.html&usg=__w-PDcnkvW43Md9CohqGgj4xOwmM=&h=225&w=375&sz=23&hl=el&start=2&um=1&tbnid=oivaNCbvfMEjMM:&tbnh=73&tbnw=122&prev=/images%3Fq%3D1986%2Bceltics%26hl%3Del%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1[/url]
Lol, only the '57 and '60 Celtics were whiter than the '86 Celtics.
Yes, the league has come a LONG way since the days when unathletic white guys were stars...
[IMG]http://www.onemanfastbreak.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/nowitzki_mvp-292x300.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.nba.com/media/suns/nash_0506mvp_index.jpg[/IMG]
Wait... a short, skinny, white, unathletic Canadian winning not one but 2 MVPs, back to back? :wtf:
Because, as history has taught us, if you're not super athletic you won't do well in the modern NBA ::cough, Larry Bird, cough Tim Duncan, cough 7 championships 5 finals MVPs 5 regular season MVPs... cough::
Extra footage for the dude who's claimed like 150 times up to now that they played basketball with soccer balls back then (did the US even know what soccer was before the 50's?). Note that these pics aren't even from West's-Russell's-Wilt's era. They are taken before these guys were even [B]born[/B]:
[url]http://theinvisibleagent.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/teamtechhighbasketball1920.jpg[/url]
(taken in 1920)
[url]http://images.google.gr/imgres?imgurl=http://www.departments.dsu.edu/dsuarchives/images/Sports/Mens%2520Basketball%2520Team1986-87%2520cropped%2520small.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.departments.dsu.edu/dsuarchives/histcalendar.htm&usg=__JrnQJkbV3ZkHWgnZNNef_B-9_ic=&h=1425&w=600&sz=104&hl=el&start=26&um=1&tbnid=uiCaVVxSwAG9JM:&tbnh=150&tbnw=63&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbasketball%2B1920%26ndsp%3D21%26hl%3Del%26sa%3DN%26start%3D21%26um%3D1[/url]
(go to 1908 and check even the women's team)
[url]http://images.google.gr/imgres?imgurl=http://www.americaslibrary.gov/assets/jb/progress/jb_progress_basketball_1_e.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.americaslibrary.gov/jb/progress/jb_progress_basketball_1_e.html&usg=__Fy5KwS6JOVG9-JKbTc0XRIzJjYc=&h=398&w=304&sz=17&hl=el&start=31&um=1&tbnid=yX-_l8c95rdWYM:&tbnh=124&tbnw=95&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbasketball%2B1920%26ndsp%3D21%26hl%3Del%26sa%3DN%26start%3D21%26um%3D1[/url]
(pic belongs to the 1890-1913 section)
[url]http://home.moravian.edu/public/arch/images/MBB1920-1921.jpg[/url]
(1921)
To anyone who knows anything about soccer, the NON-similarity to soccer balls, especially in terms of size, is obvious.
[QUOTE=32jazz]Yes I am stupid & took the bait.
Go read a book young man.(Suggestions : They Cleared The Lane: The NBA Black Pioneers by Ron Thomas) The NBA has been a majority Black/African American league since the 64-65 season:rolleyes: In fact I hope someone would post a photo of the 65/66 Celtics & compare them with the 86 Celtics. The 66 Celtics was far 'Blacker" than the '86 pasty White Celtics who had maybe four Black Players.:rolleyes:
AGAIN: The NBA has been a majority Black league since around 64/ 65.
I know you guys are simply trolling for a response,but I made this post for OTHER serious posters who are not sure of the great legacy & Players of the '60's who are just as/or more capable/talented as today's player.
1)Elvin Hayes was an NBA all star in the 60's, 70's & 80's. (The 80's which is considered the leagues 'Golden Age')
2)Wes Unseld was a top three rebounder in the League in the 60's, 70's & 80's.
3)Kareem was 'technically' an all star in the 60's,70's & 80's as well.
Someone please find the team photo of the mid 60's Celtics & compare them with the '86 Celtics & see who had 'unathletic White guys'.[/QUOTE]
Hey, I believe you. I just assumed that since blacks had only just gotten civil rights and such that there was still a long ways to go in terms of african-americans having basketball facilities for their schools and such. I wasn't trolling, I believe you that it was a majority aa league.
But, don't you think that the ports infrastructure for young african-americans has improved just a tad since then? Especially since the black kids in the south could now go to previously "white" schools and enjoy the benefits of better facilities, training, and coaches?
And the game itself has changed so much, athleticism and size are so much more significant nowadays. A 6'2 white SG being a star nowadays, not happening. The standard height for every position has gone up, Centers used to be like 6'8 now they have to be like 6'11, PFs used to be like 6'6-6'7 now they're all 6'9+ etc, etc, the players are stronger, faster, heavier, and more athletic overall, the way the game is played reflects that.
Bill Russell would not be anything special nowadays, seriously. Maybe a star, but not the dominant defensive force he was.
And as for Dirk and Nash, yeah, there are a very few white stars, but not even close to what there was back pre-70's.
^lol.
[IMG]http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/876/men27s20basketball20tea.jpg[/IMG]
Would they still be all stars today? I think not.
damn, didnt know the skills were that bad back then.. so many shots not even close to going in.. :rolleyes:
if only i was born in that era, with the skills i have now, id be HOF..
[QUOTE=A.M.G.]And the game itself has changed so much, athleticism and size are so much more significant nowadays. A 6'2 white SG being a star nowadays, not happening. The standard height for every position has gone up, Centers used to be like 6'8 now they have to be like 6'11, PFs used to be like 6'6-6'7 now they're all 6'9+ etc, etc, the players are stronger, faster, heavier, and more athletic overall, the way the game is played reflects that.[/QUOTE]
The average height for the players is smaller this year than it was at anytime before the early 80s. The players are a little heavier and more athletic but other than that there isn't much difference in size.
[QUOTE=A.M.G.]Bill Russell would not be anything special nowadays, seriously. Maybe a star, but not the dominant defensive force he was.
And as for Dirk and Nash, yeah, there are a very few white stars, but not even close to what there was back pre-70's.[/quote]
Why wouldn't Russel be a dominant defensive player? Shane Battier, Bruce Bowen and Tim Duncan aren't great athletes but there great on D. His instincts and length would still be there. I see no reason why he wouldn't be a great defensive player.
[QUOTE=A.M.G.]Hey, I believe you. I just assumed that since blacks had only just gotten civil rights and such that there was still a long ways to go in terms of african-americans having basketball facilities for their schools and such. I wasn't trolling, I believe you that it was a majority aa league.
But, don't you think that the ports infrastructure for young african-americans has improved just a tad since then? Especially since the black kids in the south could now go to previously "white" schools and enjoy the benefits of better facilities, training, and coaches?
[B]Big misconception that the "white Schools" had better coaches its still a false myth even today. [/B]
And the game itself has changed so much, athleticism and size are so much more significant nowadays. A 6'2 white SG being a star nowadays, not happening. The standard height for every position has gone up, Centers used to be like 6'8 now they have to be like 6'11, PFs used to be like 6'6-6'7 now they're all 6'9+ etc, etc, the players are stronger, faster, heavier, and more athletic overall, the way the game is played reflects that.
Bill Russell would not be anything special nowadays, seriously. Maybe a star, but not the dominant defensive force he was.
And as for Dirk and Nash, yeah, there are a very few white stars, but not even close to what there was back pre-70's.[/QUOTE]
many of the players are bigger but just in height you have 6'11 and taller players shooting 3pt which would be caused for a good benching in the 60's-70's Players like unseld and Reed although much shorter than a player like a yao would push him so far out of the paint he would be a nonfactor on the offensive boards. What many of the young guys that havent taken the time to understand the game is that the reason you dont see a lot of high flying dunks back in the 60's and 70's is because a player would have gotten put on his butt and the refs might not have called it. When I see players like pau Gasol getting buckets I just shake my head he would have gotten punked so bad b the real Centers of the NBA
[QUOTE]And the game itself has changed so much, athleticism and size are so much more significant nowadays. A 6'2 white SG being a star nowadays, not happening.[/QUOTE]
Iverson may not be black, but he's 5'11. It might be hard, but not impossible. After all, no other SG produced as much as West in West's own era. So, since only West did it, this must mean that it wasn't easy to dominate as a 6'2 white SG in his era, either. And this, among others, makes West special. He beat odds of his own era.
[QUOTE] The standard height for every position has gone up, Centers used to be like 6'8 now they have to be like 6'11, PFs used to be like 6'6-6'7 now they're all 6'9+ etc, etc, the players are stronger, faster, heavier, and more athletic overall, the way the game is played reflects that.[/QUOTE]
At least when it comes to the 60's-70's, wrong about the heights. From each position you listed.
Players are heavier and more athletic, but that's nothing that technology advances can't explain. Especially the weight difference isn't anywhere near as dramatic as depicted: In 2000, the average weight was 225 lb. In 1960? 206? In 1965, it was 213, which was 1 lb more than the average weight in [B]1985[/B].
[QUOTE]Bill Russell would not be anything special nowadays, seriously. Maybe a star, but not the dominant defensive force he was.[/QUOTE]
And this is why, exactly? What did Russell lack defensively that all modern great defenders have?
All this bickering, throwing stats around, heights etc, JUST WATCH THE DAMN VIDEO, ANYONE THAT CANT TELL HOW LOUSY THE STANDARD WAS BACK THEN BY WATCHING NO MORE THAN 2 MINUTES OF THE FOOTAGE NEEDS TO DELETE THEIR ACCOUNT.That standard is worse than current college ball, Adam Morrison and JJ Reddick were stars in current college ball, so anyone who thinks players from 60's NBA would translate to todays NBA needs to reconsider.
[QUOTE=A.M.G.]Hey, I believe you. I just assumed that since blacks had only just gotten civil rights and such that there was still a long ways to go in terms of african-americans having basketball facilities for their schools and such. I wasn't trolling, I believe you that it was a majority aa league.
[/QUOTE]
the old NBL had black players 5 years before Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier in baseball (1942). The Lakers, Hawks, 76ers, Kings and Pistons came from that L.
Actually, going back and reading through the histories of the various pro basketball leagues is quite interesting.
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Basketball_League_(United_States)"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Basketball_League_(United_States)[/URL]
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball_Association_of_America"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball_Association_of_America[/URL]
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Basketball_League_(1961-1963)"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Basketball_League_(1961-1963)[/URL]
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Basketball_Association"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Basketball_Association[/URL]
I mean, who knew the first black pro basketball head coach was hired by George Steinbrenner of all people?
[QUOTE=Psileas]Iverson may not be black, but he's 5'11. It might be hard, but not impossible. After all, no other SG produced as much as West in West's own era. So, since only West did it, this must mean that it wasn't easy to dominate as a 6'2 white SG in his era, either. And this, among others, makes West special. He beat odds of his own era.
At least when it comes to the 60's-70's, wrong about the heights. From each position you listed.
Players are heavier and more athletic, but that's nothing that technology advances can't explain. Especially the weight difference isn't anywhere near as dramatic as depicted: In 2000, the average weight was 225 lb. In 1960? 206? In 1965, it was 213, which was 1 lb more than the average weight in [B]1985[/B].
And this is why, exactly? What did Russell lack defensively that all modern great defenders have?[/QUOTE]
Allen Iverson may not be black? That's surprising.
As for Bill Russell, I'm just saying he wouldn't be a DOMINANT defensive force LIKE HE WAS BACK THEN. The dude was 6'9 and didn't have much offensive game, so how good of a star big man could he be nowadays? He would be like a taller Ben Wallace, which would not lead you to 11 titles nowadays.
[QUOTE=A.M.G.]
And the game itself has changed so much, athleticism and size are so much more significant nowadays. A 6'2 white SG being a star nowadays, not happening. The standard height for every position has gone up, Centers used to be like 6'8 now they have to be like 6'11, PFs used to be like 6'6-6'7 now they're all 6'9+ etc, etc, the players are stronger, faster, heavier, and more athletic overall, the way the game is played reflects that.
Bill Russell would not be anything special nowadays, seriously. Maybe a star, but not the dominant defensive force he was.
And as for Dirk and Nash, yeah, there are a very few white stars, but not even close to what there was back pre-70's.[/QUOTE]
A 6'2" White SG couldn't be a star but a 5'11 165 lb Black SG can win 4 scoring titles and average 30PPG several times?
[IMG]http://www.cavsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/AllenIverson.jpg[/IMG] Look at how athletic
People have grossly overrated the athleticism of today and it's impact on the game. If size/athleticism was the only prerequisite for success in the NBA, then guys like Jason Richardson and Josh Smith would be sure-fire hall of famers. Also, most players in this era don't even use their size correctly. Zydrunas Ilguaskas is what 7'6"? When was the last time you saw him in the post? The guy's purely a jump shooter and he isn't an anomally, he's the norm. Oversized, soft jump-shooting big men who want nothing to do with banging down low and playing tough... that's today's NBA.
And why on earth wouldn't Bill Russel be the same defensive force he was back then? I mean Ben Wallace (6'9" same height as Russell) had a string of seasons where he averaged 13+ RPG and 2-3 BPG.... playing CENTER. Some of the best defensive players in this decade are some of the more unathletic players in the game- Tim Duncan, Bruce Bowen, Shane Battier, etc.
In summary, SKILL>>>>>>>ATHLETICISM
[QUOTE=db23]All this bickering, throwing stats around, heights etc, JUST WATCH THE DAMN VIDEO, ANYONE THAT CANT TELL HOW LOUSY THE STANDARD WAS BACK THEN BY WATCHING NO MORE THAN 2 MINUTES OF THE FOOTAGE NEEDS TO DELETE THEIR ACCOUNT.That standard is worse than current college ball, Adam Morrison and JJ Reddick were stars in current college ball, so anyone who thinks players from 60's NBA would translate to todays NBA needs to reconsider.[/QUOTE]
This is why you dont get it. 2 min of clips the C postion today is so weak that a BUM like Kwame Brown still has a job Chris Kaman gets a new improved contract and a soft weak pau Gasol is the 2nd option on a title contending team.Im sure Wilt would have problems defending the great Tyson Chandler and Andrew Bynum.
[QUOTE=Psileas]32jazz, you're correct. But, you see, some people choose to believe things that they saw nowhere, read nowhere (they hardly read at all, after all), never proved, but, because they weren't alive in that era, they found a good excuse to imply that they didn't miss anything serious. Some of them may believe that in 1950's you were considered a super athlete if you had a 20-inch vertical and that today's WNBA players would make a 60's roster. There's nothing to respond to these people without being in danger of having your IQ dropped by a lot.
And yes, you're also correct about the Celtics:
[url]http://images.google.gr/imgres?imgurl=http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nba/boston/1986Celtics.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nba/boston/celticschamps.html&usg=__w-PDcnkvW43Md9CohqGgj4xOwmM=&h=225&w=375&sz=23&hl=el&start=2&um=1&tbnid=oivaNCbvfMEjMM:&tbnh=73&tbnw=122&prev=/images%3Fq%3D1986%2Bceltics%26hl%3Del%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1[/url]
Lol, only the '57 and '60 Celtics were whiter than the '86 Celtics.[/QUOTE]
I know. I know.
But some kid who is serious unlike those trolling for a reaction may read this & I thought they should have a few facts.
Psileas. How bout those 'unathletic White' '86 Celtics who swept MJ & the Bulls in the playoffs & are generally considered one of THE greatest teams of all time ;at least top 3 or top 5 alltime.(Where are the 86 CeltIcs generally ranked? not rhetorical)
The '86 Celtics only had four(4) Black guys on the entire roster & only two(2) contributors(DJ & Parish were starters) while Sam Vincent & Sly Williams(nicknamed 'the garbage man':oldlol: ) were both doing cleanup duty with less than 10 MPG. This the golden age of the NBA.
Wes Unseld & Elvin Hayes (1960's holdovers) were still dominate way past their prime in the 1980's.
The average startng Center in '68(Wilt's prime) was 6'10
The average Center today is roughly 6'10 (not withstanding the inflated heights attributed to them)
Sixties era HOF Centers
I was gonna talk about HOF centers Walt Bellamy, Nate Thurmond, Willis Reed & other 7 footers like Walter Dukes etc..but it seems to be such a waste. Don't you think?
Where do rank the 'unathletic White' Celtics of 86?
[QUOTE=A.M.G.]Allen Iverson may not be black? That's surprising.
As for Bill Russell, I'm just saying he wouldn't be a DOMINANT defensive force LIKE HE WAS BACK THEN. The dude was 6'9 and didn't have much offensive game, so how good of a star big man could he be nowadays? He would be like a taller Ben Wallace, which would not lead you to 11 titles nowadays.[/QUOTE]
Well a offensive liability like Ben which Russ wasnt helped lead a team to 1 title and they should have won at least 1 more. If Bill played today he would still be the great C what would stop him from winning 11 rings would be the salary cap and free agency not his skill.
Let's be honest here, all you people trying to take away from past legends... if guys like Tim Duncan, Allen Iverson, Dirk Nowitzki, Steve Nash, Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, Kevin Durant (and every other skinny, white, unathletic, etc player who have DOMINATED this era/decade) had played anywhere from the 60s-90s, you'd be doing the same thing you're trying to do to Wilt, Russell, etc.
"Tim Duncan was so slow and couldn't jump, he'd be a backup at best in today's league"
"Yeah Iverson scored a lot in his era but he was only 5'11 165 lbs!!! he wouldn't even be a D-3 player today, he's too small to even play PG, how would he play SG against all the athletic freaks out there today?!"
"Dirk and Nash were slow, unathletic white players who dominated before the league was majority black. They'd get dominated in today's league"
See where I'm getting at? Show some ****ing respect.
[QUOTE=Scott Pippen]You don't think this may have anything at all do with how they measured players then (without shoes) vs now (+ the exaggerated heights) and sometimes apparently not even updating their college measurements/weights back then.[/QUOTE]
:applause:
The only positon that has had any sigificant change in heigths are the 2 guard/off guard/SG ,but otherwise the players today are no taller than those of 68(Wilt's peak when he even led the leagus in assists:eek: over Big O ,Earl 'The Pearl Monroe, Walt Frazier, Jerry West, Leny Wilkens. All HOF guards)
The average staring Ceneter was roughly 6'10 then('68)
The average Center is rougly 6'10 today (even with exagerrated heights & the circus freaks they put into the league today)
[QUOTE]Allen Iverson may not be black? That's surprising.[/QUOTE]
Scratch "not". I wanted to write "not white" but forgot to erase the "not".
[QUOTE]As for Bill Russell, I'm just saying he wouldn't be a DOMINANT defensive force LIKE HE WAS BACK THEN. The dude was 6'9 and didn't have much offensive game, so how good of a star big man could he be nowadays? He would be like a taller Ben Wallace, which would not lead you to 11 titles nowadays.[/QUOTE]
First of all, if Russell played nowadays, this means that he wouldn't have existed back then and therefore, the NBA's 70's defensive stars would not be inspired by him, which would mean they would become less advanced than they actually were, Hakeem/Ewing and the others would in their turn also have the same fate and so on.
Second, yes, I know that Russell was 6'9 (6'9 1/2, to be exact, which is just a small notch below the average center height today).
Now, you mention offense and Ben Wallace. First of all, Wallace can't see Russell when it comes to passing and fast-break opening. Russell averaged more than 4 assists throughout his career and there were seasons when he'd average more than many starting PG's. He would at times grab a rebound, dribble down the court and pass to the open teammate. Wallace only once surpassed even 2 apg. Second, Wallace can't be told to score when needed. Russell wasn't a good shooter and a natural scorer, but, when told to, he could easily drop 20-30 points, even against Chamberlain. Wallace? Forget 30 points, how many times did he even get 20 points in a playoff game? 3 is the correct answer. Defense? Much closer, but you see that their overall impact just isn't the same.
[QUOTE]Psileas. How bout those 'unathletic White' '86 Celtics who swept MJ & the Bulls in the playoffs & are generally considered one of THE greatest teams of all time ;at least top 3 or top 5 alltime.(Where are the 86 CeltIcs generally ranked? not rhetorical)
The '86 Celtics only had four(4) Black guys on the entire roster & only two(2) contributors(DJ & Parish were starters) while Sam Vincent & Sly Williams(nicknamed 'the garbage man' ) were both doing cleanup duty with less than 10 MPG. This the golden age of the NBA.[/QUOTE]
Did Sly Williams even finish the season with the team? I think they waived him in midseason, because he was too problematic a character and guys like Auerbach couldn't stand such liabilities.
[QUOTE]Where do rank the 'unathletic White' Celtics of 86?[/QUOTE]
Top-5, like just about everyone does. I'm not sure where exactly, but it doesn't really matter, because any top-5 team ever could beat anyone and anywhere, including the 1-4 teams that may be ranked above them.
Also David Thirdkill was on that '86 team, though does not appear to be in this team photo.
[IMG]http://i41.tinypic.com/ettxj7.jpg[/IMG]
edit never mind that is the '87 team (I think). But he was indeed another black player on the '86 team
[QUOTE=Scott Pippen]Also David Thirdkill was on that '86 team, though does not appear to be in the team photo.
[IMG]http://i41.tinypic.com/ettxj7.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Damn!!!! Be careful Pippen.
The glare from the pasty "White unathletic' skin of this team nearly blinded me:oldlol: Maybe that's why they swept MJ & the Bulls in '86?:confusedshrug: The glare from their skin blinded Jordan?:rolleyes:
Thank you Pip. Now place the 66 team with John Thompson/Russell/ Sam & K.C Jones,etc...... side by side. Proof of the'unathletic White guys' of the 60's.:rolleyes:
According to Psileas Williams was released mid season so that team only had three Black Players(DJ/Parish/Vincent) & one(Sam Vincent) only played less than 10 minutes per game.
I just checked about Sly. He only played 6 games (54 minutes) for the team. So, basically the "midseason" I referred to was probably an overstatement...
He was a naughty kid, even after retiring:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sly_Williams[/url]
[QUOTE=Psileas]I just checked about Sly. He only played 6 games for the team.
He was a naughty kid, even after retiring:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sly_Williams[/url][/QUOTE]
I Guess Red Auerbach was a good judge of character huh?:eek:
So the '86 Celtics (top 5 team off all time)only had three Black players on the entire roster?(One doing clean up duty)
I used to dislike Greg Kite:confusedshrug: & Danny Ainge with a passion growing up a Laker fan.
[IMG]http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/fail-owned-fish-bait-fail.jpg?w=500&h=375[/IMG]
[QUOTE=32jazz]Yes I am stupid & took the bait.
Go read a book young man.(Suggestions : They Cleared The Lane: The NBA Black Pioneers by Ron Thomas) The NBA has been a majority Black/African American league since the 64-65 season:rolleyes: In fact I hope someone would post a photo of the 65/66 Celtics & compare them with the 86 Celtics. The 66 Celtics was far 'Blacker" than the '86 pasty White Celtics who had maybe four Black Players.:rolleyes:
AGAIN: The NBA has been a majority Black league since around 64/ 65.
I know you guys are simply trolling for a response,but I made this post for OTHER serious posters who are not sure of the great legacy & Players of the '60's who are just as/or more capable/talented as today's player.
1)Elvin Hayes was an NBA all star in the 60's, 70's & 80's. (The 80's which is considered the leagues 'Golden Age')
2)Wes Unseld was a top three rebounder in the League in the 60's, 70's & 80's.
3)Kareem was 'technically' an all star in the 60's,70's & 80's as well.
Someone please find the team photo of the mid 60's Celtics & compare them with the '86 Celtics & see who had 'unathletic White guys'.[/QUOTE]
[B][COLOR="DarkGreen"]1986 Boston Celtics = Greatest Team of All Time
Best Half Court Passing Game, Shooting Game, Shot Selection, High FG%, Defense and Team Oriented Team of All Time[/COLOR][/B]
[IMG]http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2007/1218/nba_g_85celtics_600.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2008/06/19/1213880928_6510.gif[/IMG]
[B][COLOR="darkgreen"][B]1 Black Starter: Robert Parish (C)
1 Mullato Starter: DJ (PG)
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]The Rest All Whities....:confusedshrug:
That 1986 Team Beat the Lakers in 4 of their Season Matchups...1 of them in Los Angeles without Kevin McHale...
They also knocked down 7`4 Athletic Freak Ralph Sampson and 6`10 Master Defender, Foot Worker, Agil, Stronger and Post Player Hakeem
How?
Fundamentals...
Fundamentas > Athletic Capacity...
Bill Walton Crippled as He was was More Effective playing 15-20 Minutes Than 90% of Centers that Year...[/B][/COLOR]
By the way that 86 Team was like Barkley said "Ugliest Team of All Time"...You Go By their Looks and You Wil Get Schooled..
Parish: A Hunchback Uncoordinated Looking Center
McHale: A Frankestiened White Boy that Couldn`t Jump Nor Was Potent
Bird: A Slow, Unleaping Country Boy...that looked more like a Doctor, Profesor than an Athleate...
DJ: A Fat Point Guard
Ainge: Your Common Urban White Boy that looked more like he should be a boy scout than a B-Ball Player
Walton: A White Hippie...Crippled...
YOU GO BY THEIR LOOKS...YOU GET 1986 OWNED! :applause: :pimp: [/COLOR][/B]
[IMG]http://www.mrshafrir.com/bird-auerbach-16x20-thumb.jpg[/IMG]
[B]Charles Barkley on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno 17 April 2009 [/B]
[url]http://www.funnynba.com/2009/04/charles-barkley-on-tonight-show-with.html[/url]
[B]"Just Cause Your Fast...Doesn`t Mean You Can Play"[/B]
:applause:
[QUOTE=Scott Pippen]You don't think this may have anything at all do with how they measured players then (without shoes) vs now (+ the exaggerated heights) and sometimes apparently not even updating their college measurements/weights back then.[/QUOTE]
:applause:
[quote=32jazz]Damn!!!! Be careful Pippen.
The glare from the pasty "White unathletic' skin of this team nearly blinded me:oldlol: Maybe that's why they swept MJ & the Bulls in '86?:confusedshrug: The glare from their skin blinded Jordan?:rolleyes:
Thank you Pip. Now place the 66 team with John Thompson/Russell/ Sam & K.C Jones,etc...... side by side. Proof of the'unathletic White guys' of the 60's.:rolleyes:
According to Psileas Williams was released mid season so that team only had three Black Players(DJ/Parish/Vincent) & one(Sam Vincent) only played less than 10 minutes per game.[/quote]
Yes but the problem is even then some people on this site (more than you may think) would also consider even the 1980s to be a "weak era", if you believe it or not. Again, just like the 1960s, it is a matter of ignoring what they don't care to know.
[QUOTE=32jazz]
I know you guys are simply trolling for a response,but I made this post for OTHER serious posters who are not sure of the great legacy & Players of the '60's who are just as/or more capable/talented as today's player.[/quote]
You know, I'm not trolling for a response. I'm sick and tired of me saying something like "Young Shaq was the most athletic big of all time" and then some other guy coming and trolling what I'm saying with some horse crap about how Wilt Chamberlain was a great arm wrestler and got lots of points and boards against players who couldn't jump or dribble and smoked butts during games. Its just BS.
You're a serious poster? Explain to me how in the 40's when that era started playing basketball (with soccer balls) the world population was three times smaller and bball was only popular in the states and then only played by a small proportion of the people. Today ball is international, the second largest and fastest growing sport in the world. So explain to me how you think taking the few hundred best players from a talent pool 1000's of times smaller and who have inferior training techniques and time to dedicate to the game can possibly produce a group of players at the same athletic level?
If we took two groups of random players in any sport, one was 100 and the other was 100,000, and we took the 10 best from each group and your wife's life depended on you betting on the winner, you're telling me you put the money of the best 10 from 1000? If you're serious, answer that and make me understand how it works.
[quote]1)Elvin Hayes was an NBA all star in the 60's, 70's & 80's. (The 80's which is considered the leagues 'Golden Age')
2)Wes Unseld was a top three rebounder in the League in the 60's, 70's & 80's.
3)Kareem was 'technically' an all star in the 60's,70's & 80's as well.
Someone please find the team photo of the mid 60's Celtics & compare them with the '86 Celtics & see who had 'unathletic White guys'.[/QUOTE]
Joking right? Hayes retired in 1981 long before the peak of the NBA which was absolutely 10 years later in the very late 80's and very early 90's. So did Enseld before the best rebounders in history were even drafted. Kareem was a great player but his career was winding down just as the best bigs of all time were young young players. After 81 Kareem was still in his prime and pulled down less then 8 boards for the rest of his career. A far cry from the 17 he pulled down in his hey day and weak era.