FINISHING AT THE RIM using Athletic ability

Im athetic, 5'10 145 lbs and also pretty strong. I have recently been trying to learn to use the up and under type of layups. I can do them well without defense but with defense its harder because people are grabbing at the ball and all. Back in like 8th grade I used to be crazy with it doing up and under reverse layups and such and I think thats how I build my athleticism but I slacked off. So I want to know how I can finish at the basket with these athletic moves and with contact. Help please.

Get some more weight on yourself. At 145 you will get bumped around a lot and it will throw you off. If you were say... 185 then the contact would feel like a lot less and you could finish plays. Also, move your arms around a lot when looking to finish. It's not comfortable at first, but if you watch Carmelo, that's what he does and gets fouled basically every time he goes up and can finish the 3 point play about a quarter of the time.

[QUOTE=Swaggin916]Get some more weight on yourself. At 145 you will get bumped around a lot and it will throw you off. If you were say... [B]185[/B] then the contact would feel like a lot less and you could finish plays. Also, move your arms around a lot when looking to finish. It's not comfortable at first, but if you watch Carmelo, that's what he does and gets fouled basically every time he goes up and can finish the 3 point play about a quarter of the time.[/QUOTE]

If he bumped his weight up to 185, @ 5'10 he will have minimal athletic ability :lol

I'm 6' 170 and that ball is going up when I get to the rim unless you put me on my back

[QUOTE=Automajic23]If he bumped his weight up to 185, @ 5'10 he will have minimal athletic ability :lol

I'm 6' 170 and that ball is going up when I get to the rim unless you put me on my back[/QUOTE]

So you are saying Nate Robinson has minimal athletic ability? He is 185 and is only a little over 5'7. Jameer Nelson is listed at 6'0 (but he ain't no 6'0) and he is 190. Ty Lawson is 5'11 195... I think these guys can move just fine.

I'm not talking about eating a bunch of double cheeseburgers and gain 40 pounds of fat, but getting in the gym and gaining some muscle. He will get thrown around at 145... that is way to skinny. He can probably be about 165 and be alright, but most people who play basketball are skinny and at 5'10 185 you are a little freight train. I know this... I am 5'11 195 (not fat) and use it to my advantage.

[QUOTE=Swaggin916]So you are saying Nate Robinson has minimal athletic ability? He is 185 and is only a little over 5'7. Jameer Nelson is listed at 6'0 (but he ain't no 6'0) and he is 190. Ty Lawson is 5'11 195... I think these guys can move just fine.

I'm not talking about eating a bunch of double cheeseburgers and gain 40 pounds of fat, but getting in the gym and gaining some muscle. He will get thrown around at 145... that is way to skinny. He can probably be about 165 and be alright, but most people who play basketball are skinny and at 5'10 185 you are a little freight train. I know this... I am 5'11 195 (not fat) and use it to my advantage.[/QUOTE]

Yea I wanted to bulk up and stuff but it will harm my athletic ability so Im going to wait till next offseason. I have seen skinny people get into the lane and finish well with acrobatic layups AI, Brandon jennings, Kevin Durant, most of the HS ballers. How do they do it they are not even that built up.

[QUOTE=MannyO] I have seen skinny people get into the lane and finish well with acrobatic layups AI, Brandon jennings, Kevin Durant, most of the HS ballers. How do they do it they are not even that built up.[/QUOTE]

You don't need to bulk up. The players with the REALLY nice finishing moves are skinny ones (like the ones you listed) or have a moderate build (like Kobe).

Finishing at the rim is all finesse. I suggest working on your handles. Your overall feel for the ball will help you have a nice finishing touch. Trust me.

[QUOTE=MannyO]Yea I wanted to bulk up and stuff but it will harm my athletic ability so Im going to wait till next offseason. I have seen skinny people get into the lane and finish well with acrobatic layups AI, Brandon jennings, Kevin Durant, most of the HS ballers. How do they do it they are not even that built up.[/QUOTE]

I was just giving you a suggestion... I'm not saying you can't be skinny and be a good finisher, but putting some weight on your frame will help. The best finishers in the game are Lebron and Carmelo and both have good size... Not to mention Dwight Howard or Shaq...

[QUOTE=MannyO]Im athetic, 5'10 145 lbs and also pretty strong. I have recently been trying to learn to use the up and under type of layups. I can do them well without defense but with defense its harder because people are grabbing at the ball and all. Back in like 8th grade I used to be crazy with it doing up and under reverse layups and such and I think thats how I build my athleticism but I slacked off. So I want to know how I can finish at the basket with these athletic moves and with contact. Help please.[/QUOTE]

It's kind of weird giving you advice because I'm also 5'10" and 145 lbs. I'm pretty sure that we have similar skills, based on your posts.

I'd suggest doing something like this: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw0J44IOh8s[/url]

When I try to pull that off, I drive really fast, pump fake near the bottom of the backboard on one side of the rim, and do a babyhook(?) while gliding under the rim, and finishing with one hand.

Sometimes, when I get the cut right under the rim, I power dribble hard, go straight up and sneak the ball in.

[QUOTE=LevisJeans]It's kind of weird giving you advice because I'm also 5'10" and 145 lbs. I'm pretty sure that we have similar skills, based on your posts.

I'd suggest doing something like this: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw0J44IOh8s[/url]

When I try to pull that off, I drive really fast, pump fake near the bottom of the backboard on one side of the rim, and do a babyhook(?) while gliding under the rim, and finishing with one hand.

Sometimes, when I get the cut right under the rim, I power dribble hard, go straight up and sneak the ball in.[/QUOTE]

yea I think my technique was wrong because I would get the ball caught between my defender. Also how to control yourself in the air.

[QUOTE=MannyO]yea I think my technique was wrong because I would get the ball caught between my defender. Also how to control yourself in the air.[/QUOTE]

Controlling yourself is the hardest part. If I get nudged away, I'll indefinitely miss the lay-up. I haven't gone for an AI style reverse lay-up in a long time.

[QUOTE=LevisJeans]Controlling yourself is the hardest part. If I get nudged away, I'll indefinitely miss the lay-up. I haven't gone for an AI style reverse lay-up in a long time.[/QUOTE]

Yea I remember back in 8th grade I used to do those moves like nothing. I would do crazy 360 layups, 360 reverse layups, up and unders, all those acrobatic moves. But now I don't use them as much. I have to relearn it and how to keep my hang time with contact.

[QUOTE=Swaggin916]So you are saying Nate Robinson has minimal athletic ability? He is 185 and is only a little over 5'7. Jameer Nelson is listed at 6'0 (but he ain't no 6'0) and he is 190. Ty Lawson is 5'11 195... I think these guys can move just fine.

I'm not talking about eating a bunch of double cheeseburgers and gain 40 pounds of fat, but getting in the gym and gaining some muscle. He will get thrown around at 145... that is way to skinny. He can probably be about 165 and be alright, but most people who play basketball are skinny and at 5'10 185 you are a little freight train. I know this... I am 5'11 195 (not fat) and use it to my advantage.[/QUOTE]

Okay, still didn't think Nelson, Lawson, and Robinson weighed that much but I guess if it works. Still they are professional athletes with professional trainers and dieticians which we/he does not have. Plus putting on 30-40 lbs overnight isn't feasible so I guess we need a solution for now.

I agree with the posters below talking about having that finesse and finishing at the hoop. You have to be slithery when you are slimmer than the other guys. Get between them, seal them off with your leg or your off arm (but don't hook), get them in the air then go under them.

When I have to go to the rim on bigger people I usually try to just seal them, or be slithery like I said. If they insist on getting in my way or stepping up I will go at them full steam chest to chest and literally try to posterize them, or get swatted. I will try to put them on the floor if they don't get out of the way, until they call offensive foul but in a lot of cases they are in motion so it will be a no call or in your favor.

Well this is true... but he could do it in a year. At 145 He probably hasn't lifted many weights, and you can easily gain 30-40 pounds in a year with a good workout program.

Being only 5'11, I find that undisciplined defenders who are taller than you almost always go for the shot block so pump fakes work great... so a dribble drive with a pump fake then a little side step lay in (or something like that) is a good option. If they are disciplined and don't bite on it, well then dish it out and then go to option b.

[QUOTE=Swaggin916]Well this is true... but he could do it in a year. At 145 He probably hasn't lifted many weights, and you can easily gain 30-40 pounds in a year with a good workout program.

Being only 5'11, I find that undisciplined defenders who are taller than you almost always go for the shot block so pump fakes work great... so a dribble drive with a pump fake then a little side step lay in (or something like that) is a good option. If they are disciplined and don't bite on it, well then dish it out and then go to option b.[/QUOTE]

nope I lift weights a lot but just not for mass especially when playing basketball. I just wanted strength, explosiveness and quickness. In the offseason Ill consider adding weight but tryouts are in 4 days so too late now. The pump fakes work well against almost all players my age because they just want to abuse the shot. When going for a layup like automajic said maybe if I jump into the defender and put the body on them I can get the leverage and finish.

Learn how to use both hands and also how to put "English" on the ball i.e spin it so even though you might not make it all the way out to the other side of the rim or get bumped off your path (btw bulk up so that doesn't happen, I'm 6'0 220) you can throw up like high up off the top and it'll hit then curve back in. It's effective, neat looking, plus it pisses people off then I do. I can literally stand underneath the rim both feet planted, throw the ball to my right up and damn near touch the right corner of the backboard with it, and make it curve back

[QUOTE=50inchvertical]Learn how to use both hands and also how to put "English" on the ball i.e spin it so even though you might not make it all the way out to the other side of the rim or get bumped off your path (btw bulk up so that doesn't happen, I'm 6'0 220) you can throw up like high up off the top and it'll hit then curve back in. It's effective, neat looking, plus it pisses people off then I do. I can literally stand underneath the rim both feet planted, throw the ball to my right up and damn near touch the right corner of the backboard with it, and make it curve back[/QUOTE]


I have been practicing the spinning, I watched Chris Paul/Allen Iverson do it and they are undersized so I will add it to my game. The 2 foot jump stop is what I need to work on as well because I feel I settle for 1 foot drives which sometimes are not as effective when getting in traffic.

[QUOTE=MannyO]nope I lift weights a lot but just not for mass especially when playing basketball. I just wanted strength, explosiveness and quickness. In the offseason Ill consider adding weight but tryouts are in 4 days so too late now. The pump fakes work well against almost all players my age because they just want to abuse the shot. When going for a layup like automajic said maybe if I jump into the defender and put the body on them I can get the leverage and finish.[/QUOTE]

Yea I'm not advising you to start lifting a bunch of weights in season that would be dumb and your gains would be a lot less with all the cardio you get form playing. You have to go heavy though and actually put some work into it if it's something you think you might want to do.

Definitely put your body into your defenders tho... it get's them off balance and they can't elevate as high to try and block your shot. I have a friend who is a great shot blocker and is 3 inches taller than me and I am able to get into his body to where he can't block my shot.

[QUOTE=Swaggin916]Yea I'm not advising you to start lifting a bunch of weights in season that would be dumb and your gains would be a lot less with all the cardio you get form playing. You have to go heavy though and actually put some work into it if it's something you think you might want to do.

Definitely put your body into your defenders tho... it get's them off balance and they can't elevate as high to try and block your shot. I have a friend who is a great shot blocker and is 3 inches taller than me and I am able to get into his body to where he can't block my shot.[/QUOTE]


I began to body my defenders more that way i finish more efficiently. Still have to get better at using the backboard better.

Just takes practice and confidence during games. Play more and you'll get used to it.

I'm in a similar situation as OP was. 6'0 143 pounds right now.

[QUOTE=SourPatchKids]I'm in a similar situation as OP was. 6'0 143 pounds right now.[/QUOTE]

Learn the euro step and work on your weak hand.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQkt3S4WY5Y[/url]

work on your core strength and dont be afraid of contact. when finishing at the rim, if there is going to be contact, you should initiate it first to prevent shot blockers from getting up in the air to challenge your shot. Iverson, Marbury, those guys were amazing at doing that, Chris Paul and Derrick Rose are others that do it well. They never allow the defender to make contact first. Think of it as a race to the top, if you win youll probably have a good chance of getting an open look at the rim/glass

I'm 5'10 and about 185 and at 34 I'm probably just about as athletic as I've ever been. The only downfall I see to having more weight is it seems to take a toll on my body. Hit the weights just make sure you keep working on your game after you hit the weights. I think my biggest downfall is that I spend my 20's in the weight room and didn't start playing basketball till I after I turned 30. I'm not sure if you said how old you are or not but if your fully grown I would definitely try to add some muscle. If done correctly it will make you more athletic and add to your vertical. I'm still working on using my strength in the game but it seems to be coming along.

When I was spending most of my time in the gym and weighed about 200 lb's I had no trouble jumping up and grabbing the rim. my vertical was 36" at the time. Unfortunately it has dropped a good bit since then mostly because my ankles are so torn up and lack flexibility.

Some good advice here. A few lbs in the offseason won't hurt you. 4 years ago at the YMCA and open gyms I was at we played 4 days out of 7. I played against 16 - 25 years olds mainly who were fast, most of which played for their HS or intramural college. I was 30 then, 6'1 and dropped from 200 to 178. Just this small drop in weight made a big impact on my game. I had no problem scoring, but those last few games you really have to push yourself. I did notice however that getting hit in the air caused me to have to alter my shot more, due to less control from being lighter. Ya, running for 3 miles on a treadmill then playing 2-3 hours of full court ball for 200 days out of the year, 4 years straight put quite a toll on my feet, but not so much so that I can't hang in the 30 and over league. Everything is like slow motion in this league compared to the fast pace games I used to play in and this will probably hurt my game in the long run. I need to mix in a few games with the younger crowd from time to time.

[QUOTE=50inchvertical]Learn how to use both hands and also how to put "English" on the ball i.e spin it so even though you might not make it all the way out to the other side of the rim or get bumped off your path (btw bulk up so that doesn't happen, I'm 6'0 220) you can throw up like high up off the top and it'll hit then curve back in. It's effective, neat looking, plus it pisses people off then I do. I can literally stand underneath the rim both feet planted, throw the ball to my right up and damn near touch the right corner of the backboard with it, and make it curve back[/QUOTE]

lol this. ***** pisses me the F*CK off when im playing good defense on a guy and hes in a bad position, but does those fukken layups that have spin on them and get them in lol