What's wrong with LeBron?

Watching the Cavs this year, I've mirrored many of the thoughts people have been voicing regarding LeBron's explosiveness, and particularly how it seems that it has disappeared. The guy doesn't seem to get nearly as high as he used to and most people have noticed it. I've also noticed that he doesn't seem to try as hard to jump very high, but I'm not sure if I'm right. So for those that watch the Cavs frequently, has he just not been trying to jump as high or explode as much, or has he actually lost a step before even turning 25?

yea, he definitely looks a step slower this season. but honestly, i think he's still got most of his explosion off of one foot. he gets himself into trouble though when he tries to gather himself with two feet. not like it matters though, lebron's still a freak athlete lol

[QUOTE=LA_Showtime]yea, he definitely looks a step slower this season. but honestly, i think he's still got most of his explosion off of one foot. he gets himself into trouble though when he tries to gather himself with two feet. not like it matters though, lebron's still a freak athlete lol[/QUOTE]
But if he's lost a step at freaking 24, he'll be out of the league by like 32...

[QUOTE=Dave3]But if he's lost a step at freaking 24, he'll be out of the league by like 32...[/QUOTE]

well, yeah, it's definitely strange to see him declining athletically when he should be at his peak... however, i think he would be fine if he just lost 10-20 pounds. at this point it looks like he's too heavy... naturally his body is going to break down faster if he's carrying the extra weight. and it's not like he's using his bulk to punish his defender in the post lol

I thought the same thing in the first 8 games or so of the season, but in the last 2 games he's looked just as athletic/explosive/whatever term you would like to use as he did last season. Maybe he was just a bit rusty or something. Did you watch the last 2 games? He got a ton of explosive dunks/layups. I remember hearing people say the same thing at the beginning of last season, too, and I specifically remember listening to a podcast where they thought Lebron had lost some of his athleticism. I'd say that it's just rust, especially after seeing these last 2 games.

And Showtime, in the 3 games before tonight, Lebron was doing a ton of work in the post - whether it was scoring or creating for others. I'm guessing you haven't been watching the games. His weight is a big reason why he's so impossible to guard.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tv0-uvQKIw]Highlights from tonight's game[/url]


He looks pretty f@cking explosive to me. :confusedshrug:

Lebron's more of a jumpshooter now. He want to be like Kobe. Be like Kobe.

[QUOTE=StroShow4][url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tv0-uvQKIw]Highlights from tonight's game[/url]


He looks pretty f@cking explosive to me. :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

still don't think he's getting off the ground as quickly as he did last year. and you can really tell when he gathers himself with two feet...

My first thought would be he's just saving his energy more, not losing a step.

[QUOTE=StroShow4][url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tv0-uvQKIw]Highlights from tonight's game[/url]


He looks pretty f@cking explosive to me. :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
Dude, he looks like he's barely getting off the ground compared to his former self. Before his head would be rim level on most of his dunks, right now it looks like he's barely getting up there. He's quick I guess, but doesn't get up high.

[QUOTE=Dave3]But if he's lost a step at freaking 24, he'll be out of the league by like 32...[/QUOTE]
Dude is already close to 14 thousand points already, he's had a career and a half already.

[QUOTE=Dave3]Dude, he looks like he's barely getting off the ground compared to his former self. Before his head would be rim level on most of his dunks, right now it looks like he's barely getting up there. He's quick I guess, but doesn't get up high.[/QUOTE]

yeah, he's not finishing as many of those crazy shots he used to make on a regular basis.

maybe his ego is weighing him down? [COLOR="White"]relax, i kid i kid[/COLOR]

Nothing...It's just time for him to expand his game and mix it up more often. He probably realizes at this point, if he is crazy aggressive to the rack ever game he probably won't be able to play that long due to possible injuries. It's a safety issue as well as a strategy change.

...will be fine

i don't understand why people think he's willingly lost some of his explosiveness. there is a difference between picking your spots and losing a step and i think people are getting them mixed up ....

I think his athleticism is the same and his explosiveness is the same, he just isnt trying as hard as he was last year, he knows he's going to NY or Jersey, he knows hes gonna start selling his new number 6 jerseys on his new team and make a ton of cash of jersey sales and shoes, his heart just doesnt seem to be in Cleveland very much and you can see it in his game

He's still beasting because he has so much talent but he doesnt seem as hungry as last year

he's saving it for the dunk contest

Have been saying this since Game 1 of the preseason. For whatever reason he just doesn't have his old explosivness. Haven't seen him make one impressive leap in the half-court all season(can he?). And the YT highlights posted from tonight's game only reaffirm that. He barely got up on the 2 dunks he had at 0:23 & 1:57.

And :oldlol: @ the pacing himself bit. He's freaking 24 years old and historically has always looked as explosive in April/May/June as he has in December. So it's not like there's been a burn-out issue in the past. Would make NO sense for him to not jump like he can ALL THE TIME. But that's what we're seeing right now. LeBron hasn't displayed his old leaping ability in every game, every drive of this season so far.

Fortunately the other aspects of his offensive game have come a long way. He's shooting 53% despite being more perimeter oriented than ever. 05-08 LeBron would've struggled to produce at a superstar level with his current body.

[QUOTE=Indian guy]Have been saying this since Game 1 of the preseason. For whatever reason he just doesn't have his old explosivness. Haven't seen him make one impressive leap in the half-court all season(can he?). And the YT highlights posted from tonight's game only reaffirm that. He barely got up on the 2 dunks he had at 0:23 & 1:57.

And :oldlol: @ the pacing himself bit. He's freaking 24 years old. Why would he suddenly decide to not jump like he can ALL THE TIME? It's not like we're only talking about a few possessions here. LeBron hasn't displayed his old leaping ability in every game, every drive of this season so far.

Good thing the other aspects of his offensive game have come along as far as they have. He's shooting 53% despite being more perimeter oriented than ever. 05-08 LeBron would've struggled to produce at a superstar level with his current body.[/QUOTE]
Why am I the only one who doesn't see a decline? Can somebody link me to a clip where Lebron is clearly more explosive/athletic than he was vs. Indiana or Philly? In the last few games, it seems to me as if his athleticism is the same as it was last year.

[QUOTE=che guevara]Why am I the only one who doesn't see a decline? Can somebody link me to a clip where Lebron is clearly more explosive/athletic than he was vs. Indiana or Philly? In the last few games, it seems to me as if his athleticism is the same as it was last year.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ve5lSjtmE4Q[/url]
His head is almost rim level...

[QUOTE=che guevara]Why am I the only one who doesn't see a decline?[/QUOTE]

His speed/quickness for the most part seems fine. His leaping/explosiveness in the paint sure as hell isn't. And that's obvious on every drive/layup/dunk he has made this season. Just watch the 2 dunks at :23 & 1:57 from tonight's game itself: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tv0-uvQKIw[/url]. Surely you can see that he barely got up?

And watch ANY highlight clip of his prior to this season to see a NOTICEABLY more explosive LeBron.

[QUOTE=Indian guy]His speed/quickness for the most part seems fine. His leaping/explosiveness in the paint sure as hell isn't. And that's obvious on every drive/layup/dunk he has made this season. Just watch the 2 dunks at :23 & 1:57 from tonight's game itself: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tv0-uvQKIw[/url]. Surely you can see that he barely got up?

And watch ANY highlight clip of his prior to this season to see a NOTICEABLY more explosive LeBron.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure what to make of that. I have no idea if he didn't get his head to rim level because he couldn't, or just because he didn't have to. He didn't need to jump that high on either attempt. Or maybe it's just rust - as I said, I remember this same thing being discussed at the beginning of last season, too. If he never gets his head to rim level or shows his old explosiveness after the season is over, then we'll know something is up - but right now, it's only 14 games into the season, and the sample size we're looking at is just too small.

[QUOTE=che guevara]I'm not sure what to make of that. I have no idea if he didn't get his head to rim level because he couldn't, or just because he didn't have to. He didn't need to jump that high on either attempt. Or maybe it's just rust - as I said, I remember this same thing being discussed at the beginning of last season, too. If he never gets his head to rim level or shows his old explosiveness after the season is over, then we'll know something is up - but right now, it's only 14 games into the season, and the sample size we're looking at is just too small.[/QUOTE]
It's not about sample size in this case. This is something that used to happen 3 or 4 times a game, and now hasn't happened for 14 games...just seems a bit weird.

Yeah if he has declined leaping wise, it would definitely have to deal with a muscle mass gain.. not necessarily a decline in his overall athleticism. I stopped working out for a month and a half because of a shoulder injury, and lost a lot of my muscle mass.. but when I came back, I was jumping almost higher than before because I was lighter. Weight is a big factor.

Early on I also thought something wasn't right about him explosion wise but I think my perception was off because he wasn't getting out on the break/dunking as much but Lebron is OK. Dude still has his hops and explosion as you can see here...

[URL=http://img688.imageshack.us/i/lebronele.jpg/][IMG]http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/3218/lebronele.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

@ 14 & 19 secs getting head level vs the Bulls from like a week or two ago:lol

[b]lebron james dunks on bulls[/b]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hft4i9F65IU[/url]


or his cheetah like acceleration/speed as he chases down Monta the other night for rejection

[b]LeBron Skies and Rejects Ellis[/b]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qwkIjJktOQ[/url]

[QUOTE=che guevara]He didn't need to jump that high on either attempt.[/quote]

Of course he didn't need to jump high in order to DUNK the ball. There's never a reason to jump as high as great leapers do! But they still do because they CAN. Why would LeBron suddenly stop at 24? Only if he CAN'T, and through 14 games he's clearly shown that he CAN'T.

[quote]Or maybe it's just rust - as I said, I remember this same thing being discussed at the beginning of last season, too.[/quote]

That was just a 3-5 game issue and he was back better than ever after that. The current slump has almost lasted 2 months!

[quote]but right now, it's only 14 games into the season, and the sample size we're looking at is just too small.[/QUOTE]

But what does the amount of games have to do with anything? A great leaper, at the freaking age of 24, should be expected to be a great leaper barring injury or being out of shape/poor conditioning. LeBron doesn't have those issues. I've never seen or heard of a great athlete suddenly losing his vertical at LeBron's age. But he has and it's not like we're looking at a small sample(even though the # of games is irrelevant anyway). Including preseason, this is nearly 2 months of the game's best athlete suddenly displaying a lack of explosiveness/elite leaping.

[quote]Yeah if he has declined leaping wise, it would definitely have to deal with a muscle mass gain[/quote]

That's what I believe is the case too, except LeBron's gained muscle mass EVERY year he's been in the league and it hasn't had the slightest impact(negative) on his explosiveness/leaping. He's gotten better athetically every year, if anything. So what went wrong now?

[QUOTE=Diesel J]Early on I also thought something wasn't right about him explosion wise but I think my perception was off because he wasn't getting out on the break/dunking as much but Lebron is OK. Dude still has his hops and explosion as you can see here...

[URL=http://img688.imageshack.us/i/lebronele.jpg/][IMG]http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/3218/lebronele.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

@ 14 & 19 secs getting head level vs the Bulls from like a week or two ago:lol

[b]lebron james dunks on bulls[/b]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hft4i9F65IU[/url][/quote]

These 2 plays were a result of near-full court runs though. His real issue is his leaping/explosiveness off of short distances(3pt line to basket and shorter).

[QUOTE=Indian guy]
That's what I believe is the case too, except LeBron's gained muscle mass EVERY year he's been in the league and it hasn't had the slightest impact(negative) on his explosiveness/leaping. He's gotten better athetically every year, if anything. So what went wrong now?[/QUOTE]
If what you're saying really is true, that he has lost some of his vertical, it's almost certainly because of the wear and tear on his body. Prior to this season, he played 472 games, not counting two deep runs in the postseason - including this season and all playoff games, he's played 545 games.

I think this is evidence that wear and tear is more of a factor in an athlete's decline than age. I'm sure you've heard of the 1000 game theory, that players decline significantly around that mark - Lebron, at the age of 24, is already more than halfway there. KG, despite being only 33, has declined very significantly, and it's probably because of the wear and tear he's accumulated from coming straight out of High School. It's not like 33 is an advanced age for a basketball player - players like Kareem, Steve Nash, Chauncey Billups, and Karl Malone didn't show much decline at all 33.

I don't think he got better athletically every year, though - Lebron in 2007 seemed less athletic (and worse in every way) than he was before or after.

[QUOTE=che guevara]Lebron in 2007 seemed less athletic (and worse in every way) than he was before or after.[/QUOTE]

There were threads on here in 2007 just like this one in saying that Lwbron was washed up because his athleticism was gone:lol

[QUOTE=DULLAH]Been saying Bron should lose 15 pounds ASAp for the last 3 years.

Glad to see someone else notices it'll put more miles on him quickly.[/QUOTE]
Yeah.. because he's really been strugling with those extra 15 pounds the last few years...

You don't fix something that isn't broken.

:roll: at this thread...dude is playing at an all time great level, and some d-bags are wondering what is wrong with him LOL. Do you know how many back to back games Cavs had so far? Maybe he is just saving energy and playing smart basketball? Or is that so hard to grasp...

[QUOTE=madmax]:roll: at this thread...dude is playing at an all time great level, and some d-bags are wondering what is wrong with him LOL. Do you know how many back to back games Cavs had so far? Maybe he is just saving energy and playing smart basketball? Or is that so hard to grasp...[/QUOTE]
they've had two sequences already in the season wh they've played 4 games in 5 nights and have played the second most games this season only having less than portland. just give em time

Can people STFU about Lebron's explosiveness and stop pretending like they're experts about it. He looks the same in the regard and better everywhere else.

If this is what a "troubled with explosiveness" Lebron looks like, then he's still someone I would take over all but about 5 players ever in NBA history. So yeah, he sucks ass.

How many fast break dunks and lay-ups has he blocked this year? I really don't see whatever it is you guys are seeing.

I'm sorry, but complete and utter rubbish.

[url]http://www.nba.com/video/games/cavaliers/2009/11/19/091119_lebron_james_dunk.nba/index.html[/url]

^ Just a couple of days ago..


Can't go all out on dunks anymore and risk injury, he's playing for something this year.. His FG% has been ridiculous this season and is just playing smarter basketball.

[QUOTE=Indian guy]These 2 plays were a result of near-full court runs though. His real issue is his leaping/explosiveness off of short distances(3pt line to basket and shorter).[/QUOTE]
lol i wonder if someone post a clip from short distances what crap will you spew next.

[QUOTE=Indian guy]These 2 plays were a result of near-full court runs though. His real issue is his leaping/explosiveness off of short distances(3pt line to basket and shorter).[/QUOTE]
lol i wonder if someone post a clip from short distances what crap will you spew next.

I disagree with the premise of this topic. Is LeBron James still the [B]exact[/B] same, explosive athlete he was at 19? Maybe he's lost 5-10 percent of that (maybe--if that)), but he's gotten smarter as a basketball player, added to his repetoire, and is still an athletic freak when compared to most everyone else in the league