Insider: Who's better Kobe vs Lebron

Kobe vs. LeBron: Who's better?
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Thorpe By David Thorpe
Scouts Inc.
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Kobe Bryant/LeBron JamesNoah Graham/NBAE/Getty ImagesBefore Kobe and LeBron go head-to-head, we pit them together in eight categories. Who will win?

Kobe Bryant and LeBron James square off on Christmas Day (ABC, 5 p.m. ET) for the second consecutive season. So it's time to address the most frequently asked question in the NBA: Who's better, Black Mamba or King James?

Advanced stats clearly favor LeBron. On the other hand, NBA players say almost unanimously that Kobe is the game's best.

My task is to deliver a verdict using statistics and on-the-court evidence. I'm using eight categories to compare these two heavyweights, and we're scoring it like a championship fight. The winner of each category gets 10 points, with the loser getting a minimum of seven. After eight rounds, we'll tally the score to see who is the best player in basketball today. Remember, it's not about the past few years or the next few. It's what we see right now.
Category No. 1: Perimeter shooting

Kobe often is regarded as one of the best jump shooters in the NBA. Although he often shoots it a little flat (something he acknowledges) or falling backward (even when the defense doesn't force that type of shot), he has developed an excellent stroke with better arc. Meanwhile, LeBron has vastly improved his own shooting form, getting an excellent follow-through and better balance on most of his shots.

Kobe's shot selection in the halfcourt is noteworthy; he takes most of his shots inside of 17 feet and beyond the arc. This is a smart strategy, especially because he's shooting worse than 40 percent on long 2s. His short-range jumper has been on target (better than 50 percent accurate), but he's struggling from the 3-point line (29 percent).

LeBron, on the other hand, settles for too many long 2s -- they account for almost half of his attempted jumpers. He makes these shots more than Kobe and is making almost 40 percent of his 3s, but that success causes him to rely on his outside shot a little more than he should.

In the end, I like Kobe's shot selection better, but LeBron overcomes that with a higher percentage of makes overall. As surprising as it may sound, King James is the better perimeter shooter right now.

LeBron 10, Kobe 9

Category No. 2: Pure scoring

Pure scorers can get buckets from anywhere and against any kind of defense, even in crunch time. They also get to the free throw line a lot. Kobe and LeBron are obviously as good as any who have ever played.

The best scorers attack the paint effectively so they have options on nights when their jump shots aren't falling. LeBron gets to the paint with his size, quickness and ball skills as well as his ability to move without the ball. He's also a strong finisher. Now that he's shooting a career-best from 3, defenses must pick their poison.

[+] EnlargeKobe Bryant
Lisa Blumenfeld/Getty ImagesKobe's doin' work in the post. LeBron not so much.

The same can be said about Kobe, who punishes defenders with his will to dominate. He's getting about 32 percent of his shots off post-ups (about four times as many as LeBron) while still being a dribble-drive threat and a good cutter. In fact, more than 60 percent of his shots are generated from cutting, driving or posting. (Meanwhile, 60 percent of LeBron's shots are jumpers.)

Both players are great ball handlers, too, which allows them to be prolific scorers without hurting their team by committing turnovers. Kobe is a little more reliable in this area. He's also a better free throw shooter, although LeBron gets to the line more often -- he's scoring more than seven points per game from the stripe.

This is the closest category, as LeBron is also a brilliant scoring machine. I give Kobe the slightest edge because of his wide variety of weapons -- moving without the ball, using ball screens, posting up, utilizing shot fakes to throw defenders off balance, honing his triple-threat game and twisting around and through multiple defenders. Kobe is a master at every scoring maneuver.

Kobe 10, LeBron 9

Category No. 3: Making teammates better

This might be the easiest category in which to see a clear separation between the two. LeBron is, simply put, the best passing guard/wing since Magic Johnson. He's terrific with the active dribble in isolation or off ball screens, and he's even better before he uses his dribble, reading and reacting to shifts by the defense in preparation for his drives. This creates easy buckets for guys who normally would have a tough time scoring. Most importantly, he'll make the key pass at any part of the game, including end-of-game scenarios.

Kobe is an amazing passer, too. He has great anticipation in the halfcourt. My favorite play of his is when he dribble-drives or posts up to draw the opponent's center or power forward to take just a step or two toward him. When that happens, the Lakers big who becomes open, typically Andrew Bynum or Pau Gasol, runs straight to the rim to catch the perfect lob pass from Kobe. It's a devastating play, one that keeps the defending bigs in constant purgatory.

The one fair knock on Kobe is his desire to keep the ball instead of moving it. That he has such great talent around him only exacerbates the problem. He's still a great passer, but he's not on LeBron's level.

LeBron 10, Kobe 8

Category No. 4: Primary defender

An athletic freak entering his prime, LeBron is more active when defending the primary action. He applies far more ball pressure than Kobe and generally is more aggressive with his quick feet. But he does this at some risk to the Cavs' defense, sometimes not forcing his man in any direction because he's too caught up in the one-on-one battle or getting beat to the middle by using poor close-out techniques. However, with LeBron, it's a worthwhile risk. His sheer size and physical gifts create havoc for the player with the ball, often resulting in a forced shot or a turnover.

[+] EnlargeBryant/James
Jeff Lewis/Icon SMILBJ's size and quickness make him a great defender.

Kobe, on the other hand, currently reminds me of the smartest and most veteran player in a very competitive pickup game. He's efficient with his movements, and his technique is the best in the league. The Lakers want him to play the top side on every wing catch, keeping the ball on one side of the floor. It's textbook strategy employed by most good defensive teams.

Kobe does not worry much about getting to the baseline slower because he often has two 7-footers available as helpers, and the baseline serves as an extra defender. He also often guards the least threatening offensive wing in the first half and plays off him (see secondary defender breakdown), allowing his man room to shoot or make a play. A defense aims to force the opponent into taking the worst shot possible, and inviting its poorest offensive guard to shoot or drive is an excellent result. So Kobe's actions are in line with the team's strategies.

I have no doubt that in five to seven years, LeBron will play exactly how Kobe is playing now. And there is currently not much difference between the two in terms of overall results. But years ago, when Kobe was ballhawking a lot more, he was considered one of the top defenders in basketball. That extra pressure makes a difference. LeBron is doing that now, so he takes this category.

LeBron 10, Kobe 9

Category No. 5: Secondary defender

Kobe and LeBron both benefit from playing with solid if not excellent defenders who allow them to roam around and muck up the offensive actions of their opponents.

LeBron has a sixth sense for where the ball is headed and will look to cut the action short. And if the offensive player does not account for him, LeBron will go after his shot. He's not blocking as many shots this season, but he still disrupts a lot of plays by adding that one extra defender to the play side of the floor.

But so does Kobe, who seemingly knows what's going to happen before some of the offensive players do. This is due in large part to his now-legendary ability to watch hours of game tape.

Although Kobe sometimes makes the fundamental mistake of turning his back to the guy he's guarding and watching the ball on the opposite wing or post, he always knows exactly where to go when it's time to locate and close out his man. And because he's often guarding the weaker of the other team's guards, he gets to play like a safety in football.

If his man is left open and chooses to shoot the ball, the Lakers call that a "win" on that possession. This also allows Kobe to make plays on the ball, a reason he's stealing the ball at least twice per game. If he does not steal the ball, at least he does what LeBron does so well, which is foul up the primary actions of the opposing offense.

Both players make big impacts on the defensive end, but it's Kobe's ability to turn defense into offense that gives him the edge in this round.

Kobe 10, LeBron 9

Category No. 6: Impact in transition

LeBron and Kobe are two of the finest wing finishers in NBA history, along with Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen and James Worthy. But LeBron also resembles Magic Johnson in transition because he often leads the break and pushes the ball down the middle of the court.

[+] EnlargeLeBron James
Allen Einstein/NBAE/Getty ImagesBest to get out of the way when LeBron has a full head of steam.

LeBron is devastating in this area because he typically waits for a crease to open up before exploding through it for the finish and/or foul. He's also a master at waiting for help to arrive to spread out the defense and finding open guys when the defense overcommits to him. Still, he's even better at finishing when he's the guy getting the pass as he fills the lane -- in fact, no player is better at this skill.

Other times, LeBron will pull up and take some long 2s or 3s, sometimes appearing to do so just to get some rest, because the transition game is the one time when he often faces just one defender.

Of course, that's what Kobe has been doing for years. Yes, he'll pull up frequently for jumpers and 3s, but he's always looking to push and attack. He, too, is often the ball handler initiating the break, so he has no problem pushing early and then, if the matchup is right, going right into his post game by backing the defender down.

Being the alert passer that he is, defenders know they can't just sell out to stop him, and this gives him the break he needs. If they close out on him, he'll pop the ball to the open man. However, Kobe forces shots in this part of the game a bit too often, and this, combined with LeBron's ability to rebound and run, gives LBJ the advantage over Kobe in the transition game.

LeBron 10, Kobe 9

Category No. 7: Rebounding

This category clearly favors the bigger, stronger athlete, so LeBron has better overall numbers as expected. He also plays two positions -- small forward and power forward -- that lend themselves to more rebounds, as opposed to Kobe's situation as a shooting guard.

To be fair, it's better to compare them within their positions than against each other. Plus, we have to consider how well their teams rebound, as a coach does not want his guys fighting for boards to the point where they become less effective.

When studying these two, it's surprising to see that Kobe is the better offensive rebounder. He finds a way to get to the middle of the paint on many shots, the best place to pick up long rebounds or fumbled ones. He's also opportunistic inside, slipping past lazy defenders to grab the ball. Among all 2-guards who play at least 24 minutes per game, Kobe has the best offensive-rebound rate in the NBA. The Lakers are not a strong offensive-rebounding team, so Kobe's contributions make a big difference.

LeBron, on the other hand, has little impact on this part of the game, perhaps choosing to save his energy. He has grabbed more than two offensive boards in a game just twice all season. Kobe has done so 10 times.

On the defensive glass, LeBron is not resting. Among starting small forwards, he has the second-best defensive-rebound rate behind Gerald Wallace. Considering that Cleveland is the second-best defensive-rebounding team in the league, that is impressive.

The Lakers are not a strong defensive-rebounding team, and Kobe is just average in this area. Although there should be plenty of rebounds to grab, he falls out of the top 10 for starting shooting guards. There is a mitigating factor here: L.A. ranks second in the league in margin of victory, so Kobe doesn't have the pressure to rebound as often as LeBron.

So even though LeBron's rebounding stats are better than Kobe's, I don't see a difference between the two as it relates to the position they play. I'm calling this one a draw.

LeBron 10, Kobe 10

Category No. 8: Intangibles

I think there is even more separation between the two. But that's just my opinion.

Good post.

Honestly, I think I speak for a large % of laker fans who don't really care if Bron is ranked 1 and Kobe 2nd because either way, both are great players.

I don't know how, if he's so smart, he didn't account for Kobe's finger injuries on the perimeter shooting decision.

ESPN:oldlol:

You had me at 'Lebron is a better shooter', move along-nothing to see here.

[QUOTE=White Mamba]ESPN:oldlol:

You had me at 'Lebron is a better shooter', move along-nothing to see here.[/QUOTE]

I know the common belief is Kobe>>>>>>Lebron at shooting ... but this season...

[QUOTE=White Mamba]ESPN:oldlol:

You had me at 'Lebron is a better shooter', move along-nothing to see here.[/QUOTE]

What else explains that LeBron takes/makes more 3's than Kobe and at a higher %? I'm interested in hearing how you can argue this fact.

[QUOTE]Advanced stats clearly favor LeBron. On the other hand, NBA players say almost unanimously that Kobe is the game's best.[/QUOTE]

That pretty much sums it up.

[QUOTE=RaceBannana]I know the common belief is Kobe>>>>>>Lebrons at shooting ... but this season...[/QUOTE]
Mid range this year:

Kobe: 45% 63/141

LBJ: 41% 66/162

Closer than midrange but not in the paint:

Kobe: 50% 88/176

LBJ: 31% 17/55

3-PT Range:

Kobe: 28% (not a part of his game anymore IMO)

LBJ: 37%

(info from nba hotspots)

What's that RocketGreatness aka RaceBannana?

[QUOTE=White Mamba]ESPN:oldlol:

You had me at 'Lebron is a better shooter', move along-nothing to see here.[/QUOTE]

This year, I agree LeBron is the better shooter. Kobe got him in the mid-range but LeBron is shooting better outside of that. You can say it's because of Kobe's finger or whatever but I agree with Thorpe.

[QUOTE=Kensta]This year, I agree LeBron is the better shooter. Kobe got him in the mid-range but LeBron is shooting better outside of that. You can say it's because of Kobe's finger or whatever but I agree with Thorpe.[/QUOTE]

WHY?

even wade is a better shooter than lebron, a lot of players are.

Bryant was shooting 33% from 3 before the injury than shoot 1-9 @utah and 4-20 for the trip. BUT THAT DOSEN'T MATTER!

he only say it so it goes 77-75 and not 76-76.

[QUOTE]But the league has never seen a player like LeBron James.[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://i45.tinypic.com/rj39jq.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i49.tinypic.com/312a73k.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i47.tinypic.com/ipwbcl.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Abraham Lincoln][IMG]http://i45.tinypic.com/rj39jq.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i49.tinypic.com/312a73k.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i47.tinypic.com/ipwbcl.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

too bad none of these guys are that similar to Lebron...

[QUOTE=D-Rose]Mid range this year:

Kobe: 45% 63/141

LBJ: 41% 66/162

Closer than midrange but not in the paint:

Kobe: 50% 88/176

LBJ: 31% 17/55

3-PT Range:

Kobe: 28% (not a part of his game anymore IMO)

LBJ: 37%

(info from nba hotspots)

What's that RocketGreatness aka RaceBannana?[/QUOTE]

no, im not "RocketGreatness".

you forgot to bring:

Lebron: 48-130 from 3pt range
Kobe: 37-106 from 3pt range

also, by those numbers you can tell Lebron is taking more shots from the
outside(162 from midrange and 130 from 3pt range) than kobe and he is making them at a higher %.

P.S: Im not a Lebron fan or a Kobe hater, Actually I enjoy Kobe's game more than Lebron, just trying to be objective.

[QUOTE=Abraham Lincoln][IMG]http://i45.tinypic.com/rj39jq.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i49.tinypic.com/312a73k.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i47.tinypic.com/ipwbcl.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]


Those guys were 6'9 270 lbs and were one of the best passers in the league? I was unaware Abe, tell me more!

[QUOTE=glidedrxlr22]Kobe vs. LeBron: Who's better?
Comment Email Print Share
Thorpe By David Thorpe

Kobe Bryant and LeBron James square off on Christmas Day (ABC, 5 p.m. ET) for the [B]second consecutive season[/B]. So it's time to address the most frequently asked question in the NBA: Who's better, Black Mamba or King James?[/QUOTE]

Did LeBron even play on Christmas last year? I can only think of the memorable Spurs @ Suns game with Mason hitting the game winner and Celtics @ Lakers.

So why should I believe anything he says if he starts his article with misinformation?

But with that said, I pretty much agree with most of what he says, hah.

[QUOTE=Simple Jack]Those guys were 6'9 270 lbs and were one of the best passers in the league? I was unaware Abe, tell me more![/QUOTE]
spot on:lol These guys were great and exceptional for THEIR time, but Lebron is something new and never seen before - I feel privileged to watch such an amazing talent at his peak:applause:

[QUOTE=Younggrease]too bad none of these guys are that similar to Lebron...[/QUOTE]
Yes all 4 were unique players that were physically well built ahead of their time that could:

- handle the ball like a guard
- play a facilitator role
- shoot with respectability from midrange
- penetrate the lane at will
- finish the fast break
- set up the fast break
- play the post (Elgin, Barkley)
- rebound (Elgin, Barkley)

They each had different responsibilites on their team, but physically speaking in terms of unique ability all 4 were indeed similar.


[QUOTE]Those guys were 6'9 270 lbs and were one of the best passers in the league? I was unaware Abe, tell me more![/QUOTE]

He is not 270, nor is he 6'9 and yes a peak version of Doc and especially Elgin & Barkley were among the top passers of their time as well as all time.

[QUOTE=Simple Jack]Those guys were 6'9 270 lbs and were one of the best passers in the league? I was unaware Abe, tell me more![/QUOTE]


chuck got him beat in weight tho :lol

[QUOTE=Abraham Lincoln]Yes all 4 were unique players that were physically well built ahead of their time that could:

- handle the ball like a guard
- play a facilitator role
- shoot with respectability from midrange
- penetrate the lane at will
- finish the fast break
- set up the fast break
- play the post (Elgin, Barkley)
- rebound (Elgin, Barkley)

They each had different responsibilites on their team, but physically speaking in terms of unique ability all 4 were indeed similar.




He is not 270, nor is he 6'9 and yes a peak version of Doc and especially Elgin & Barkley were among the top passers of their time as well as all time.[/QUOTE]

If you want to speak in broad terms, yes they all played basketball and were unique physically.

Lebron has the ability to play the pg, and passes like a pg...Bakley and Dr. J could never do that. Neither could handle like that and neither could shot like Lebron. It doesnt matter what role they were asked to play they couldnt play like Lebron plays. They play totally different styles.


Edit:

Barkley never handled like a guard...he handled like the ball like a big that could handle. Lebron handles like a point guard.

Dr. J never had half as good a handle as Lebron. I dont even think it was good for his time. Lebron is one of the best handling players outside of pgs in the league. He also handles just as good as some pgs.


Lebron played the faciltator role from the pretty much the pg spot, while Barkley was on the post. Thats not similar unless you call Shaq and Nash similar because they both can facilitate

Relax everyone, he is talking about THIS SEASON, and LeBron is shooting better than Kobe from outside. It is what it is. But don't be suprised if Kobe raises that 3pt avg. by a LOT by the end of the season.

[QUOTE]They play totally different styles.[/QUOTE] In part LeBron is more wing oriented, but I think they have certain similarities as mentioned. And he could not rebound or play the post nearly like Elgin or Barkley could. He has been misused in the Cavaliers "offense" for some time now as Barkley has mentioned. I did not mean to say they were near identical like that of Jordan & Wade/Bryant. But sometimes his unique talent can be overhyped while other forgotten greats like Elgin are dismissed. I have seen LeBron referred to as[I] "Magic on steroids" [/I] before, as an example.

[QUOTE]Lebron played the faciltator role from the pretty much the pg spot, while Barkley was on the post. [/QUOTE]Goes back to team role. With the Sixers I have seen him perfect anything from wing lob entry passes to 1/2 court behind the back pinpoint passes.

They are both very good. But Lebron is a freak of nature physically I dont know how many steroids does he pump in him self a week but it is sure as hell working. Kobe is a better clutch player than lebron and lebron is a better passer. That I think are the differences that have most distance in these players other are quite the same and as I said Lebron is better physically so overall I would take Lebron as a better player.

*sigh*

Its funny that the one difference between the players comes down to the most subjective analysis of them all - making teammates better.

[QUOTE=Abraham Lincoln]
Goes back to team role. With the Sixers I have seen him perfect anything from wing lob entry passes to 1/2 court behind the back pinpoint passes.[/QUOTE]

so you saying that Chuck could have ran point guard for whole seasons at a time?

Not like LeBron, just referring to their passing ability. But he was able to play point forward.

[QUOTE=Mor'Fiyah]*sigh*

Its funny that the one difference between the players comes down to the most subjective analysis of them all - making teammates better.[/QUOTE]

Even by ESPN's own criteria, how can you say that Lebron makes his teammates better? When he does his 1-man-team thing his teammates just stand to the side and get cold. This happened in the Orlando series. Whereas Kobe spends the first half of the game facilitating so that he can get his teammates involved. Kobe never holds the ball for more than 2 seconds just dribbling, something Lebron does all the time. ESPN is too prone to a player's reputation rather than watching the actual game.

And Lebron makes more long 2's than Kobe so he's a better shooter than Kobe now? That's ridiculous. Over half of Lebron's shots are long 2's, that's just a sign of bad shot selection. Everyone knows that long 2's are the lowest percentage shot. Lebron is also not as well guarded as Kobe at the perimeter, his defenders keep more distance between them since they are only concerned about his drives. You can say that Ariza last season was a better shooter than Kobe too, but put Ariza in the same situation as Kobe and now? 38% FG.

Another point. Lebron has the 2nd highest turnover rate in the league, how is he a better passer than Kobe? The assist numbers don't tell the whole story, assists are just proportional to how often you have the ball in your hands. This season Kobe shares the ball more than in past seasons, yet his assist numbers went down.

LeBron being the better player is a legit opinion to have, but I hate this scorig system. Especially the part that its almost always 10 vs 9 as in boxing. As if:

a) basketball was an individual, head to head sport
b) you could turn every opinion into a score (10 or 9 of course)

Why not ranking them instead? #1 vs #2 abd then sum and whoever has the lower number wins.

At any rate, it is not the way the public will decide. And certainly not the way I will. The public will go with Kobe this year if nothing changes, that's for sure. And I'll say the same thing I've been saying for quite a while: there is no 'best player'. It depends on the team, the coach, the situation... and you have more than these two candidates. Always wanting to tell who the ultimate, undisputable #1 is at anything is an illness of the western culture.

That being said, thinking LeBron is the best is a valid opinion. Until you don't want to 'prove' it and especialy until you are not dumb enough to believe that you can 'prove' such a thing at all.

[QUOTE=DukeDelonte13]I think there is even more separation between the two. But that's just my opinion.[/QUOTE]
:rolleyes:

good read, though i disagree. still a good way to break it down

Good read, but wtf is intangibles and pure scoring doing in the argument. Those can't be measured and why leave out street cred, heart, moxie and all the other crap.

[QUOTE=HylianNightmare]good read, though i disagree. still a good way to break it down[/QUOTE]

The text is kinda allright, but why do you need to give out points at the end of each section? It would work just as well with the text, and then at the end of it all the writer (Thorpe) could have concluded that because of what was written he goes with LeBron.

Thopre knew well at the beginning who he has as a winner, so why pretending he was just giving out points and then points 'gave' a winner. Not true. Thorpe thinks LeBron is better and there is no shame in that.

[QUOTE=elementally morale]The text is kinda allright, but why do you need to give out points at the end of each section? It would work just as well with the text, and then at the end of it all the writer (Thorpe) could have concluded that because of what was written he goes with LeBron.

Thopre knew well at the beginning who he has as a winner, so why pretending he was just giving out points and then points 'gave' a winner. Not true. Thorpe thinks LeBron is better and there is no shame in that.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. He had a subjective opinion... and then passed that subjective opinion off as a point based metric. meh...

[QUOTE=Mor'Fiyah]Agreed. He had a subjective opinion... and then passed that subjective opinion off as a point based metric. meh...[/QUOTE]

I thought it was a well-written article, and a good read. I disagree with the results though. Lebron won because he is a better shooter than Kobe and a better team player? Both of these I answered in my previous post how ridiculous it is, the ball is always in Lebron's hands that's not team basketball.

[QUOTE]I disagree with the results though.[/QUOTE]


I have no problem with the results but I don't like the method.

Giving out points at the end of each section makes it look 'more official' and 'objective' but in reality it is nothing more than a #1 and #2 thing (10 points vs. 9 most of the time). If I want to tell you who I think is better than someone else, I don't need such numbers. I need numbers only if I want to prove something... and being the best player in the league cannot be proven.

So basically Thorpe wrote a pretty good article and it was unnecessary to have those points. Should have said he picks LeBron and leave it at that.

As someone who doesn't have insider, thanks for the post man. Was hopin to read it but then saw the insider sign and was like #@@# lol

Don't they write this kind of article like every two weeks?

[QUOTE=quasimoto]Don't they write this kind of article like every two weeks?[/QUOTE]

No, two weeks ago it was Kobe vs. Jordan.

The better shooter thing killed any point made after that....